You are the Dark One: Redcloak has won. What do you do?

[Finagle]

Let's consider for a moment that Redcloak foils the PCs, fools Xykon, and successfully performs the gate ritual on Girard's gate. You are the Dark One. Your kind has been oppressed since the dawn of time. Now, the shoe's on the other foot. The power of the Snarl is under your exclusive control. You murder one of the greater gods, just to show it can be done. The others cower in fear and say they will grant you any boon, but spare their pathetic lives. What will you do after this?

I'll start: Gobbotopia becomes the capital of Goblindom on Earth (or whatever the name of the world is, I don't believe we've ever been told). Obviously, wealth redistribution is in order, there will be mighty fleets of ships arriving bearing gold and human/dwarven/elven slaves. Land redistribution as well, substantial portions of the fertile world will have their current inhabitants removed to become exclusively goblin lands. What else? What would you do?

[Leirus]

Let's consider for a moment that Redcloak foils the PCs, fools Xykon, and successfully performs the gate ritual on Girard's gate. You are the Dark One. Your kind has been oppressed since the dawn of time. Now, the shoe's on the other foot. The power of the Snarl is under your exclusive control. You murder one of the greater gods, just to show it can be done. The others cower in fear and say they will grant you any boon, but spare their pathetic lives. What will you do after this?

I'll start: Gobbotopia becomes the capital of Goblindom on Earth (or whatever the name of the world is, I don't believe we've ever been told). Obviously, wealth redistribution is in order, there will be mighty fleets of ships arriving bearing gold and human/dwarven/elven slaves. Land redistribution as well, substantial portions of the fertile world will have their current inhabitants removed to become exclusively goblin lands. What else? What would you do?

If I was the Dark One, and I knew about the world inside the Snarl, I would move my people in there, to a brand new world, leaving the other races behind, in a broken, godless world.

[Finagle]

If I was the Dark One, and I knew about the world inside the Snarl, I would move my people in there, to a brand new world, leaving the other races behind, in a broken, godless world.
Aw, come on. What a cop-out. First, we don't know what the heck that means, only having been shown once. Obviously it's meant to be revealed near the very end of the story. Second, control of the Snarl in this manner is not consistent with The Dark One's Plan as elaborated in the comic. Try again.

[Xelbiuj]

A new continent between the 2 major ones with favorable jet streams for farming weather and favorable currents to make it a highly defensible trade route.

Separation but not supremacy, that would just breed conflict.
Also, I wouldn't want land redistribution, it'd just turn out like Israel and Palestine. :\

[B. Dandelion]

The gods have jurisdiction over whether their followers are penalized, right? Demand that any paladin of any other god Falls for killing monster humanoids... or maybe just goblins... by default, unless the Dark One personally reviews the case and determines lethal force was justified against his own people.

[Leirus]

Aw, come on. What a cop-out. First, we don't know what the heck that means, only having been shown once. Obviously it's meant to be revealed near the very end of the story. Second, control of the Snarl in this manner is not consistent with The Dark One's Plan as elaborated in the comic. Try again.

The question is what I would do if I were the Dark one. So I stand by my answer.

On the other hand, if you ask me what I think the Dark One would do... I guess genocide is not good enough for the other races. He would enslave them, maybe kill enough of them to make sure they do not pose a problem for the goblins anymore. A nice twist would be if the Dark One turns out to be more understanding and just wants a place under the sun for the Goblins, amongst the other races.

I kind of think it would be nice if the Goblins achived some kind of long lasting safe place for themselves at the end.

[zimmerwald1915]

Pah, you're thinking too small. Kill all the gods whose ascension preceded yours, including the creator deities. Make the last one tell you how to create World 3.0. Destroy the world. Destroy the world-within-the-world for good measure. Create World 3.0, in which goblinoids are the only sentient races and there are no monsters with CRs impossible for goblinoids to overcome, removing the problems the creator gods ran into. Should any planar threat emerge, go down to World 3.0 yourself to deal with it, or unleash the Snarl on its planar HQ. After all, there are no other gods to stop you.

[Kish]

Rewrite the rules so that goblins are the default and most powerful PC race, taking the role now held by humans. Make hobgoblins, bugbears, etc. also PC races and as powerful as elves, dwarves, or demoted-humans.

Don't take anything away from the current PC races as such (except humans), but make it so that the default adventuring party is as likely to be three goblins, a bugbear, a halfling, and an elf as three goblins, a hobgoblin, a bugbear, and a human.

(This presumes I am, in fact, a petty, selfish god, who is generally unmoved by the plight of dragons, beholders, and anything non-goblinish. I stand to lose everything if I'm too greedy, but humans already have everything I could want my people to have; I don't want my people--particularly, but not limited to, my clerics and paladins--not adventuring because everything gets handed to them.)

The question is what I would do if I were the Dark one. So I stand by my answer.
The question is what you would do if you were the Dark One and you had just realized the Plan, not what you would do if you were the Dark One and you had exclusive access to a Utopia and the ability to kill off all the other gods. (The latter is part of realizing the Plan, not the former.)

I don't believe Finagle's problem is that you aren't roleplaying the Dark One, but that you're assuming for your convenience that the planet in the rift is a Utopia and not, say, a deathtrap, and, somehow, that the Dark One has both control of the Snarl's attacks as per the Plan and access to the planet...through the same rift which is killing off all the gods.

[Leirus]

Rewrite the rules so that goblins are the default and most powerful PC race, taking the role now held by humans. Make hobgoblins, bugbears, etc. also PC races and as powerful as elves, dwarves, or demoted-humans.

Don't take anything away from the current PC races as such (except humans), but make it so that the default adventuring party is as likely to be three goblins, a bugbear, a halfling, and an elf as three goblins, a hobgoblin, a bugbear, and a human.

(This presumes I am, in fact, a petty, selfish god, who is generally unmoved by the plight of dragons, beholders, and anything non-goblinish. I stand to lose everything if I'm too greedy, but humans already have everything I could want my people to have; I don't want my people--particularly, but not limited to, my clerics and paladins--not adventuring because everything gets handed to them.)

The question is what you would do if you were the Dark One and you had just realized the Plan, not what you would do if you were the Dark One and you had exclusive access to a Utopia and the ability to kill off all the other gods. (The latter is part of realizing the Plan, not the former.)

I don't believe Finagle's problem is that you aren't roleplaying the Dark One, but that you're assuming for your convenience that the planet in the rift is a Utopia and not, say, a deathtrap, and, somehow, that the Dark One has both control of the Snarl's attacks as per the Plan and access to the planet...through the same rift which is killing off all the gods.

It may be a crap decission, but still. The chance of a new world, without having to commit omnicide? I would take it, soft as I am. So far, the plan does not seem to control the Snarl at any point, just threatens to move it at the other gods footstep. I am assuming that if such a teleportation or plane shift possible, it would just take more research to create a spell to go into the inner world. With all the other gods blackmailed, that should be an easy feat. Although, now that you put it that way, I might just drop the other races into the big unknow that the new world is, and keep the old one. There is not greenhouse effect in the OotS world, that we know of. Again, the idea behind this is to achive a free, safe place for the goblins without killing everything else.

One detail, the Dark One in the comic does not say anywhere that he plans to kill the other beings or gods, right? Just blackmail them... (It is sort of an important distinction for me, when I think in the final fate of the goblinoids).

[Kish]

One detail, the Dark One in the comic does not say anywhere that he plans to kill the other beings or gods, right? Just blackmail them... (It is sort of an important distinction for me, when I think in the final fate of the goblinoids).
No, he doesn't. You indicated that taking the goblinoids to the assumed-Utopia would "leave the other races behind, in a broken, godless world."

I don't know how you expect all the other gods to cease to exist so that the world is "godless" if you-as-the-Dark-One would not kill them.

[Leirus]

No, he doesn't. You indicated that taking the goblinoids to the assumed-Utopia would "leave the other races behind, in a broken, godless world."

I don't know how you expect all the other gods to cease to exist so that the world is "godless" if you-as-the-Dark-One would not kill them.

Yeah, that is what I thougth at first, then I realized that the plan did not include the Dark One killing the other gods, that is why I was asking. Hm, you know, actually dividing the two worlds between the two sets of beings would leave things pretty even-steven, but there are too many incognites about how the inner world works. Man, sometimes I wish I had not found out about the Oots until 2020 or so. That way I could read it all in a single and exhausting read!

[Forikroder]

have the gods rework the goblins to give them racial bonuses superior to other PC classes without giving them a level adjustment (though theyd deserve one) and have every goblin born with an elite array of stats

let them take it from there

[Gift Jeraff]

Have a change of heart and realize that threats of violence aren't going to get us anywhere.

[FujinAkari]

I'm going to DisneyWorld!

[Roland Itiative]

Pah, you're thinking too small. Kill all the gods whose ascension preceded yours, including the creator deities. Make the last one tell you how to create World 3.0. Destroy the world. Destroy the world-within-the-world for good measure. Create World 3.0, in which goblinoids are the only sentient races and there are no monsters with CRs impossible for goblinoids to overcome, removing the problems the creator gods ran into. Should any planar threat emerge, go down to World 3.0 yourself to deal with it, or unleash the Snarl on its planar HQ. After all, there are no other gods to stop you.

I think mostly the same. Maybe without the "creating a new world" part, but just purging the existent world from all of the races who suppressed the Goblins.

Not exactly what *I* would do with such a power, but what I'd make an evil character, which the Dark One is supposed to be, do with it in a story.

[Roland Itiative]

Accidental double post, sorry.

[Dr.Epic]

Epic dance party for all eternity...and the other races can't come.

[sims796]

Epic dance party for all eternity...and the other races can't come.

That's going too far. No need to be that evil.

[WindStruck]

Flaunt my power around showing that I have control of the gate, then stupidly get killed by the Snarl which I actually had no control over.

[rewinn]

Flaunt my power around showing that I have control of the gate, then stupidly get killed by the Snarl which I actually had no control over.
That would conform to the rules of storytelling. Bards approve!

A variation on this: I would push the gods just a little too far. Sooner or later they will recognize the weakness in my system: myself. Killing me restores the status quo.

As the Dark One, I'd recognize this weakness and address it in one of two ways:
1. Create a perfectly invulnerable system of defense. This never works.
2. Push the gods, but not too far. Ultimately what I want is a safe land for my people. Gobbotopia is a good start, but the lands formerly ruled over by the Pantheon destroyed by the Snarl would almost certainly be larger. Not being an expert on Stickworld geography, I wonder if that's the Eastern Continent, currently occupied by a fluctuating bunch of empires that could be dominated with a relatively small party of adventurers, if they had a sufficiently clever leads, and the Elves. A war between the Dark One and the God of the Elves may be satisfying to the Dark One ... or perhaps the Dark One will choose an Elven God as his demonstration shot.

[Kish]

Not being an expert on Stickworld geography, I wonder if that's the Eastern Continent, currently occupied by a fluctuating bunch of empires that could be dominated with a relatively small party of adventurers, if they had a sufficiently clever leads, and the Elves.
If you mean the place where Girard's Gate is, Durkon and Malack talked about the Gods of the West (Tiamat, Marduk, Nergul, and so on) being the pantheon in charge of that area.

[Edric O]

1. Blackmail the other gods and make them turn all sentient races into goblinoids. Nobody has to die, they just get to wake up one day and realize that We Are All Goblins Now. If this makes it impossible for the (goblin) PCs to gain XP because I just turned a huge chunk of the Monster Manual into goblins, see point 6.

2. Kill the other gods anyway. For the blood and suffering of our people, they shall receive no mercy.

3. Now that I am the one and only god of this world, it's time to seriously change the rules around here. There will be no more senseless killing, no more wars, in fact no more violence or suffering of any sort. By divine intervention, I will purge the world of all diseases, natural disasters, and other causes of pain and death. I will give all sentient creatures (I mean all goblins) absurdly high damage resistance and 100 Spell Resistance, thus making any attempt at violence pointless. I will still allow them to die of old age, in order to prevent overcrowding in the material plane, but I will give every one of my clerics a device that allows perfect communication with the various planes of the afterlife. Talking to your dead relatives will be as simple as making a phone call.

4. I will not rule the world by proxy. I will rule it directly, and build myself a great fortress in the material plane to use as my home. I will show myself to anyone who wants to see me. I, and I alone, will decide who gets to be a cleric of the Dark One. There will be no more separate countries, no more kings, queens, aristocrats or mortal rulers of any kind. The entire world will be united under my theocracy, with my clerics acting as my bureaucrats to carry out my commands.

5. I shall build a large number of shrines that will, on request, create any inanimate non-magical object (except weapons) for any mortal who desires it. Goodbye scarcity, and welcome to utopia. To each according to their wishes.

6. There will still be one reward that isn't just distributed to everyone freely: XP. I will give XP to worthy individuals who distinguish themselves by scientific discoveries, great works of art, philosophical insight, or other things which serve to promote civilization, knowledge, and understanding.

...of course, everything after point #1 depends on me being able to safely kill the other gods and on the assumption that I would become effectively omnipotent once I am the only god in town.

[Warren Dew]

Pah, you're thinking too small. Kill all the gods whose ascension preceded yours, including the creator deities. Make the last one tell you how to create World 3.0. Destroy the world. Destroy the world-within-the-world for good measure. Create World 3.0, in which goblinoids are the only sentient races and there are no monsters with CRs impossible for goblinoids to overcome, removing the problems the creator gods ran into. Should any planar threat emerge, go down to World 3.0 yourself to deal with it, or unleash the Snarl on its planar HQ. After all, there are no other gods to stop you.
If I had the dark one's personality, that's pretty much what I'd do too - except that I'd keep the other sentient races around, without their gods' protection, to be slaves of or hunted down by the goblinoids.

If I had my own personality, I wouldn't kill even the first god. Rather, I'd make Redcloak find another goblin doing what Righteye was doing, and protect them against interference by any Xykons.

Actually, come to think of it, Redcloak did such a terrible job against Xykon that maybe I'd have him pass the cloak along to a more worthy goblin.

[falloutimperial]

Send Redcloak back in time and turn his skin purple. Bring back Righteye and make him leader of the new Goblinoid nations which are promised their eternal existance. Xykon is scattered into pieces, the number of which equals the goblinoids he has killed unnecessarily. Goblins are now a powerful economic and political force. Other races are the same, and if the goblins falter before their pressure, they may one day fall to their previous regretful station, and they will have deserved it.

[Adanedhel]

Just executing what I planned on the beginning actually:

blackmail the gods into giving the goblins a fair sharen a level playing ground is all they need, if they get that and still fail to build Utopia they deserved whatever fate has in store for them :)

[Jay R]

(The Dark One appears before the other gods.)

Dark One: Cower before me, because I can now control this gate! (Gate appears before the gods.)

Elan: Dunh-dun-DUNNH!

Roy: Elan, stop doing musical cues for the villains.

Gods: Oh, no! Look out! It's ...

Loki: Wait a minute. That's not a god-killing abomination. That's another world.
Dark One: (looks into gate) Hey, how did that happen?

(Moment of portentous silence.)

Dark One: Umm, well, never mind. I ... I guess I'll be leaving now. (Shuffles off stage.)

[theinsulabot]

all the attractive female deities, at the same time, in front of their husbands.

[Emperordaniel]

all the attractive female deities, at the same time, in front of their husbands.

...the thread's not called "Who do you do?" but "What do you do?" :smallyuk:

[MReav]

I would probably screw up, cause a massive civil war between my people, end up unleashing the Snarl withXykon riding it down a la Dr. Strangelove, and get killed, with Redcloak falling to his knees watching the horror being unleashed in his underwear.

Wait, that was one of my Iron Avatarist entries.

[The Pilgrim]

If I were the Dark One, I'd kill all the Gods, 'cuz it's a matter of time until they find a sneaky way to bone me, snarl or not. Also, 'cuz if I've been able to lead my minions to warp a Gate right under the God's noses, then nothing prevents any of the other Gods (or all) to do the same on me.

After that, I'd rebuild the Gates, kill anyone who knows about the Snarl, starting with Redcloak, and call it a day.

From that point on, I'd just relax and enjoy being the sole God of a world dominated by my goblinoid children. Still not sure if I'd let the other races to survive just as slaves, or I'd let them keep their own independent civilizations. Probably the latter, so I can belive myself to be better than the former Pantheons.

I'm assuming the Dark One is LE.

[Emperordaniel]

I'm assuming the Dark One is LE.

Considering that Redcloak has the Law domain, I'd say that's a pretty safe bet. :smallsmile:

[hamishspence]

The D&D goblin deity Maglubiyet has the Chaos domain despite being not Chaotic (he's NE) so while a fairly safe bet, there's still the possibility that the Dark One's not Lawful.

[recluso]

I guess the correct order of action is:
(1) Plane shift/Teleport/Whatever Redcloak away from Xykon.
(2) Immediately after that, try to kill Xykon, using the Snarl.
(3) Kill as many Gods as possible
(4) Enslave all non-goblins

[Willis888]

If you can selectively unleash The Snarl, then destroy everything, all worlds, all deities, etc, except yourself and The Snarl. Remake Creation however it most pleases you.

Otherwise, bluff that you can and will do exactly that if some demands are not met. Redraw the geopolitical map to expand the goblinoid empire, increasing number and potency of worshipers. Demand that other deities agree to the new borders and population sizes, and that each deity rewrites the memory of the mortals in their domain so that everybody believes the goblin empire has always been large and prosperous. Create a falsified history reinforcing this belief, and plant archeological 'evidence' to support it further.

[skaddix]

I am not even sure a single god can remake the universe. Since every other time they did it as a group. Besides the control of the Snarl is limited to moving a portal so if the Snarl does not want to reach out and destroy everything then there is little you can do to force it.

[Dr.Epic]

That's going too far. No need to be that evil.

The aren't on the list.:smallwink:

[Jay R]

Remembering that the Dark One cannot control the Snarl, I suspect my approach could be summed up as, "Dude, don't try to exploit the god-killing abomination. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0275.html)"

[Finagle]

Remembering that the Dark One cannot control the Snarl, I suspect my approach could be summed up as, "Dude, don't try to exploit the god-killing abomination. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0275.html)"
Can't control the Snarl directly, of course, but certainly can move the portal to the gods' throne room and make it very easy for the Snarl to lash out and destroy. After all, that's what the Snarl does; it's a manifestation of primal chaos.

And hey, if the Plan goes sour and the entire world is undone, well the Dark One will be there when the gods make a new world. He'll make sure the goblins get a larger share of the world this time.

[Jay R]

Can't control the Snarl directly, of course, but certainly can move the portal to the gods' throne room and make it very easy for the Snarl to lash out and destroy. After all, that's what the Snarl does; it's a manifestation of primal chaos.

And hey, if the Plan goes sour and the entire world is undone, well the Dark One will be there when the gods make a new world. He'll make sure the goblins get a larger share of the world this time.

The Snarl isn't restricted to the gods' throne room; that's just where he starts. If the plan goes sour, then a god-killing abomination is loose in the world. The Dark One is a god. It does not follow that the Dark One will be present after that.

[Finagle]

The Snarl isn't restricted to the gods' throne room; that's just where he starts. If the plan goes sour, then a god-killing abomination is loose in the world. The Dark One is a god. It does not follow that the Dark One will be present after that.
He'll go and hide in the outer planes, blah blah. It's all in Start of Darkness.

[elros]

2. Push the gods, but not too far. Ultimately what I want is a safe land for my people.
That's how I see it. The Order of the Stick Wiki page on the Dark One (http://oots.wikia.com/wiki/Dark_One) says that:

all he wants is all races to be equal.
The Dark One is a master strategist, and he knows that the Snarl is a weapon of "mutually assured destruction." I would just warn the other Gods that if they don't stop their followers races from slaughtering goblins, it'll be over for them all. Just treat the goblins as well as, say, halfings or gnomes, and quit while you're ahead.

[Gift Jeraff]

I think Right-Eye's views on the Dark One hold more weight than a fanwiki's.
(1) Plane shift/Teleport/Whatever Redcloak away from Xykon.
This, however, is Redcloak's view of the Dark One. :smallamused:

[Kilo24]

"2. Push the gods, but not too far. Ultimately what I want is a safe land for my people."

That's how I see it. The Order of the Stick Wiki page on the Dark One (http://oots.wikia.com/wiki/Dark_One) says that:

"all he wants is all races to be equal."

The Dark One is a master strategist, and he knows that the Snarl is a weapon of "mutually assured destruction." I would just warn the other Gods that if they don't stop their followers races from slaughtering goblins, it'll be over for them all. Just treat the goblins as well as, say, halfings or gnomes, and quit while you're ahead.
Note that crusades in the name of equality tend to be much better received than crusades in the name of superiority, and that from a psychological perspective it's quite hard to abandon the upper hand when you have it. It's likely the The Dark One believes that he just wants a fair world, but that is no guarantee that he and the other gods be willing to agree what "fair" means. His entire plot is trying to use force to correct an injustice, and that rarely involves impartial judgement on either side.

Directly OT: I'd like to say that I'd secure a fair world for all races and leave it there, but I know that it would be a very powerful temptation to start saying, "Well, it's only fair that since all the other races have dominated the world since its beginning that goblins be allowed to rule for a like amount of time" and have it keep going downhill from there. So, I don't know.

[Snails]

Flaunt my power around showing that I have control of the gate, then stupidly get killed by the Snarl which I actually had no control over.

That is an interesting piece of the problem. A controlled Gate is an awesome threat or bluff, but actually attempting to use its destructive potential, except as an extreme last resort, does not fit within the usual definition of Not Stupid.

The gods have successfully fled and stay hidden from the Snarl in the past. It is plausible the could do so in the future, even with the Dark One chasing after them with a Gate in hand. So ultimately the Dark One is mostly holding the world itself and its inhabitants hostage. That would include the goblins.

[Xelbiuj]

The gods have successfully fled and stay hidden from the Snarl in the past. It is plausible the could do so in the future, even with the Dark One chasing after them with a Gate in hand. So ultimately the Dark One is mostly holding the world itself and its inhabitants hostage. That would include the goblins.

Worst case scenario is they have to remake existence but this time, the Dark One gets input.

Actually, worst case scenario is that all of the gods die and creation is undone forever but that's a risk an Evil god is willing to take.


Personally if I was DO, I'd just have a large, easily defensible continent created between the 2 major ones. Have the jet streams changed so it has favorable conditions for farming and the currents changed to make it an excellent trade route. Economic power is better than the subjugation of other races.

[Italian Hippy]

What would I do? Obviously, I would go to Asgard to woo goddesses and drink THREE oceans' worth of beer. And reduce anyone who opposes me to pieces no larger than a man's fist! (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0073.html)

Hey, you asked what would *I* do :smalltongue:

Edit: Why can I already see a line of "WWTDOD" bracelets being marketed? :smallbiggrin:

[Cuvalwen]

The D&D goblin deity Maglubiyet has the Chaos domain despite being not Chaotic (he's NE) so while a fairly safe bet, there's still the possibility that the Dark One's not Lawful.

Possible, absolutely. But given that he opted for diplomacy and negotiation when he had a vast army at his back, he's almost certainly Lawful.

Actually, I'm wondering if he was actually Evil. Working for the benefit of one's people, and desiring peace between previously warring factions, is a fairly Good approach, surely? Redclock and Righteye aren't necessarily reliable narrators, of course, so the question becomes 'how much of the official story is true?', but since 'struck down in battle' is a perfectly acceptable end even for a hero the chances are that the DO was, indeed, killed during a meeting rather than in a war.

Gotta admit, 'The Dark One' is not exactly the sort of name that creates warm fuzzy feelings, but it could have been based on his physical appearance rather than on his mindset. After all, there's the White Witch in Narnia, and she's not exactly a nice person.

Just a thought.

[Tergon]

The Dark One might have dreams of putting Goblins above all other races, but I just don't think he'd get away with it. Yes, the Snarl is powerful, but it's bringing a nuke to a fistfight - the Dark One dooms himself if he unleashes the Snarl while he's still in the proverbial blast radius.
He'd have to drop back out of range and then turn it loose, which would leave the other Gods to fight for their lives against the Snarl while trying to protect the world. If they fail and die, the Dark One is left sitting in a corner of reality while the Snarl slowly turns around and looks at him. Not a great scenario. On the other hand, if the other Gods do actually win, you don't think they might be the slightest little bit pissed off at the Dark One by this point? My guess is that they'd throw him into the Pit with the Snarl as punishment they create the new world, one that may not even include Goblins at all to stop this happening again.

No, if the Dark One wants to get anything out of this game, he has to be reasonable. Demand that Goblins achieve the status of a player race, and the protections of the same, or else he'll pop the locks on the box and set the beast free. If he asks for more, the other Gods can still refuse - they beat the Snarl once, and now there are more of them. They can do it again. And since either option means remaking the world as a direct result of the Dark One's actions, I'm sure they'd prefer the option that screws the guy who tried to kill them.

[Finagle]

Opening the Gate isn't "destroy the world or nothing". The Dark One has control over the Gate. He can move it, open it, close it, etc. Move the Gate to the gods' throne room, open the Gate, Snarl reaches out and kills a few gods, close the Gate, and threaten the rest of the gods with destruction if they don't agree with him.

[Tergon]

Perhaps, but that requires three things to be true that the Dark One can't be sure of. One: That the other Gods cannot simply fight back against the Snarl as they have before, nor flee before it can kill them. Two: That they possess no means by which they could take control of the Gate back from the Dark One. And Three: That opening the Gate properly gives the Dark One any power whatsoever over the Snarl itself, or any guarantee that closing the Gate would cause the Snarl to be trapped once more.

The Dark One can't possibly be sure of any of those three, and if he plans to use the Snarl as an actual weapon and not just a bluff, he's gambling everything on those long shots paying off.

[hamishspence]

Redclock and Righteye aren't necessarily reliable narrators, of course, so the question becomes 'how much of the official story is true?', but since 'struck down in battle' is a perfectly acceptable end even for a hero the chances are that the DO was, indeed, killed during a meeting rather than in a war.

Gotta admit, 'The Dark One' is not exactly the sort of name that creates warm fuzzy feelings, but it could have been based on his physical appearance rather than on his mindset. After all, there's the White Witch in Narnia, and she's not exactly a nice person.

Just a thought.

Redcloak admits to him being "technically an Evil god" in SoD. There's also strip 11, where a whitecloaked goblin cleric casts Unholy Blight- an Evil domain spell.

[Finagle]

One: That the other Gods cannot simply fight back against the Snarl as they have before, nor flee before it can kill them.
The gods had no answer to the Snarl. They had to create a world to imprison it.


Two: That they possess no means by which they could take control of the Gate back from the Dark One.
We'd have to know more about the Gate ritual for this. I doubt it, though.


And Three: That opening the Gate properly gives the Dark One any power whatsoever over the Snarl itself, or any guarantee that closing the Gate would cause the Snarl to be trapped once more.
It doesn't give the Dark One any power over the Snarl. It simply lets him move the Gate around and open and close it at will. The Snarl has been shown reaching out and slaying those nearby the rifts. (It seems to have stopped doing this, but that's a future plot point to be revealed much later in the story and did not figure into the Plan). Open the Gate, let the Snarl reach out, and close it again. Well, we can't know this, but it is certainly what the Dark One plans. An example of what happens after the Dark One gets the Gate is given in Start of Darkness:

"Looks like Loki was right about not taunting it!"

[Cuvalwen]

Redcloak admits to him being "technically an Evil god" in SoD. There's also strip 11, where a whitecloaked goblin cleric casts Unholy Blight- an Evil domain spell.

It's the 'technically' in that phrase that interests me. It can mean that while that might be the official position, in practice it's a bit different. For example, in the UK, the Queen is technically the head of the Church of England. But it's the Archbishop of Canterbury who rules on and opines about religious matters, and is the de facto head of the CofE.

The Dark One could have been Neutral, or even Good; but as the deity of a 'Usually Evil' race he had to be, 'technically', an Evil deity.

But I'm not very up on the standard rules re alignment, ascended deities and their clerics. Although- Rich doesn't exactly stick slavishly to the rules himself when telling the story....

[hamishspence]

I figured it was like when he describes himself as "evil- as defined by his opposition to those that call themselves good":

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0548.html

So he knows the Dark One has an Evil alignment- but he thinks it's more to do with "opposing the Good gods" than "evil acts & personality" maybe.

[Winter Light]

Option 1) Make a speech about how once upon a time there was a goblin who wanted equality and tried to reason with the other races, and bring up how that turned out. Well, I have no intention of making the same mistake twice, so goodbye, other gods.

Or, preferably, if I'm a level-headed god of Law and Evil,

Option 2) Make that speech, threaten the gods with the snarl... and, "But I like to think I'm better than that." After threatening annihilation, stand down and genuinely ask for a fair, level playing field for the goblins--on par with humans seems reasonable

Or, if I'm just a jerk,

Option 3) Since alignment in D&D is more of a top-down administrative thing, change the rules (with the cooperation of the other gods, as necessary) so that killing a goblinoid, for any reason, is an "always evil" act. So much so, in fact, that even killing one in self-defense instant drops you from Lawful Good to Lawful Evil.

...Probably #2, maybe #1. #3 only if I feel "trolling the universe" to be more important than "equality for my people."

[Iranon]

3 only if I feel "trolling the universe" to be more important than "equality for my people."

How could it be otherwise? With great power come great lulz.

[OrzhvoPatriarch]

what am I doing? why its quite simple.....

I'M GOING TO DISNEY LAND!

[Snails]

Opening the Gate isn't "destroy the world or nothing". The Dark One has control over the Gate. He can move it, open it, close it, etc. Move the Gate to the gods' throne room, open the Gate, Snarl reaches out and kills a few gods, close the Gate, and threaten the rest of the gods with destruction if they don't agree with him.

Based on past performance, we should not have much confidence that any of the Gates is capable of surviving a determined effort at destruction by mere mortals.

How well would you expect one to hold up against the combined efforts of multiple gods?

The "bringing a nuclear weapon to a fistfight" analogy could prove to be very apt. Even the Dark One cannot really be sure how actually employing such a weapon would pan out.

And, of course, there are still many gods and but a single Dark One. If Ackbar attacks the Imperial Fleet (i.e. various gods converge on the Dark One himself), can he still employ the Death Star (Gate) safely at melee range?