May this Spear Pierce the Heart of Evil and Strike True [PF]

[ExemplarofAvg]

So I'm trying to make a spear user because it's one of my favourite weapons, but I never end up using it. The base of the build will be to core melee but keep my distance from opponents.

Race will be a custom humanoid race, concept came from what happens to the offspring of all those wizards and other classes that use haste to get some extra oomph. The result were unnaturally fast humanoids.
(We don't have a name for them yet)
Humanoid
Medium
+2 Dex, −2 Str, −4 Con
80ft Speed
Mostly in the campaign setting they've been seen as rogues by the DM (Quick Theft and Gone) so this is the first time one will be used as direct melee. Chosen only for their speed.

The Feat Base will be
Spring Attack Chain
Whirlwind Chain
Weapon Focus/Specialization Chain
Spear Dancer
This gives a very nice damage to distance ability, as well as the surrounded by enemies kick butt maneuver. Spear Dancer just for laughs. Only thing I'm debating is a Power Attack/Cleave route instead of the whirlwind. So instead of multiple possible hits, a chain of successive hits.

The main question is whether to use:
Polearm Master Archetype: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter/archetypes/paizo---fighter-archetypes/polearm-master)
This seemed the first and most obvious choice, as I can use the reach ability to hit opponents farther away to attack them, and the immediate action close range attack against anyone that comes close. It gets the standard bonus to hit and damage with the weapon. The last really nice benefit was the Flexible Flanker.

But then I came across the Dragoon Archetype (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter/archetypes/paizo---fighter-archetypes/dragoon)
First thing is that some lances do look like the standard spear image.
The main draw of this is the +1 to hit and +2 damage every 5 levels (starting at 5th) the free action end smack, as well as some neat charge abilities that go well with the 80ft speed.

So that's the only real issue.
Maybe a suggestion for another class?
Or some more feats I might like?

[herrhauptmann]

Spring attack is generally a trap. But I've never seen it used by a character with a base speed of 80.
If you go for spring attack, you should take wind and lightning stance. Concealment for moving? Yes please.
What feats are in the whirlwind chain? All I remember is whirlwind attack itself. And whirlwind is good with a 3.5 chain. With a spear, you're ignoring the 8 squares adjacent to you, and instead hitting only the guys 10ft away.
Spear dancer doesn't seem too bad. Though I'd really expect a slightly better result of dazzling people.
The cleave feats seem like they'd be a better choice than spring attack (before taking into account wind/lightning stance)
I'm unsure of the weapon focus/spec feats. Kneejerk reaction from 3.5 says 'skip it,' but PF has a lot more options. I'm just not sure if the options are any good.

I realize I didn't answer your question about archetypes. I'll read up on them later.

[Cieyrin]

Dragoon is probably more offensive and dovetails well with Death From Above (being on a mount counts as higher ground and combos with Leaping Lance for +10 to hit on a charge!) and Rebounding Leap. It mixes in some riding (it's a Dragoon in the original sense, not the FF sense) but that can be worthwhile, especially if you mix in Cavalier and Horse Master so you don't have a pushover of a mount, though Eldritch Heritage (Sylvan) and Boon Companion (plus Skill Focus (Knowledge(Nature)) for Eldritch Heritage, meaning Half-Elf ftw!) can work just as well without costing you levels.

Polearm Master works better as a defensive/support fighter, though that can work in your favor if you want to be tactics oriented.

I wouldn't bother with Whirlwind Attack, as Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Cleaving Finish and Improved Cleaving Finish is far more versatile. If you go Dragoon, Ride-By Attack and Mounted Skirmisher is probably a better choice than Spring Attack chain, though Mobility and Wind Stance may work if you really want to push mobile attacking. I wouldn't bother with Lightning Stance, it's purely defensive without Parting Shot, which is ranged only and only works once per encounter, so bad choice anyways.

[grarrrg]

80ft Speed
...
Spring Attack Chain
...
Or some more feats I might like?

Combat Patrol (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/combat-patrol-combat)

And definitely go Dragoon, it's an overall better choice.
There are actually very few abilities that require you to be mounted, and the Spinning Lance ability to attack Adjacent is MUCH better than the similar ability from Polearm Master (although it does come at a later level).

[ExemplarofAvg]

Alright so final set-up is looking to be:
Looking at a 10 lv Build
Speed Race(r) :smallwink:
Dragoon (I don't really need a mount, I go about 30ft faster than the average one, and I don't know if this will even go past level 10, which means the last thing I get will be banner, not a bad ability, but not very affective.
Feats will be. (In order that I think of them.)
I'll have about 1 feat per level not counting the bonus ones for Dragoon.
Not that they're not nice, but not central to the concept.
1. Dodge (Dex 13)
Minor boost to AC and a prerequisite for bigger and better things.
2. Mobility (Dodge, Dex 13)
It's comforting knowing that I might be able to pull a roadrunner in a bad spot.
3. Spring Attack Chain (Dodge, Mobility,+4)
because an 80ft rush is just too good of an opportunity to pass up.
4. Combat Expertise (Int 13)
I'm getting a bonus to attack with this spear, why not use it to defend myself.
5. Whirlwind Chain (Combat Expertise, Spring Attack, Dex 13, Int 13, +4)
with the short reach ability I can hit every square within 10ft for damage.
6. Wind Stance (Dodge, Dex 15, +6)
If I decide to charge "190ft" and take a −2 to hit, 20% concealment would be nice, heck, anytime I move 20% concealment would be nice.
7. Combat Patrol (Combat Reflexes, Mobility, +5)
I'll need some brushing up for it's use but I like it.
8/9. Weapon Focus/Specilization (Proficiency, +1/Weapon Focus, Fighter 4th)
These get lumped together because between them I get the same bonus as I would from Spear Training.
10. [I]Spear Dancer (Perform +4, Weapon Focus 2-Handed Weapon)
Say what you will about this, but I like my characters to have style, dazzle and pizzaz even, :smalltongue:

So in actuality they would more than likely go in a sort of this order.
1st. Dodge
Fighter Bonus 1st (Mounted Combat, Skill Focus [Ride])
Fighter Bonus 2nd: Combat Expertise
3rd: Mobility
Fighter Bonus 4th: Spring Attack
5th: Combat Patrol
Fighter Bonus 6th. Weapon Focus
7th. Whirlwind Attack (coincides with the free action switch)
Fighter Bonus 8th: Weapon Specialization
9th: Spear Dancer
Fighter Bonus 10th: Wind Stance (if Needed) Alternate?

By 10th level assuming all of the above and a strength score of 14.
To Hit +15/+10/+5 (10 Bab +2 Str +2 Spear Training +1 Weapon Focus)
Damage 1d8+9 (+3 Strength +4 Spear Training +2 Weapon Proficiency)
or 1d6+9 (See Above) with the haft (deals club damage)

Extra Notes.
A charge as usual gives a +2 to hit, making it +17 on a charge, −2 AC.
Banner Ability grants +2 morale against fear and +1 on a charge to all allies within 60ft bringing full bonus on a Charge to +18 (You count as your own ally unless otherwise stated or if doing so would make no sense or be impossible. Thus, "your allies" almost always means the same as "you and your allies.") May trade +2 to hit for +2 Ac, thus negating charge penalty and attacking with a total gain of +1.
Alternatively standard attack can swap the same and gain a +2 Ac and attempt to hit with +12/+7/+2.

I think that's everything without background, magic items, skills and armour.
Does it look good?

[grarrrg]

7. Combat Patrol (Combat Reflexes, Mobility, +5)

So in actuality they would more than likely go in a sort of this order.
1st. Dodge
Fighter Bonus 1st (Mounted Combat, Skill Focus [Ride])
Fighter Bonus 2nd: Combat Expertise
3rd: Mobility
Fighter Bonus 4th: Spring Attack
5th: Combat Patrol
Fighter Bonus 6th. Weapon Focus
7th. Whirlwind Attack (coincides with the free action switch)
Fighter Bonus 8th: Weapon Specialization
9th: Spear Dancer
Fighter Bonus 10th: Wind Stance (if Needed) Alternate?

You are missing Combat Reflexes which is need for Combat Patrol.
And now that I think some more, Combat Patrol may be a poor choice, as you need to spend a Full Action to 'start' your Patrol. Meaning no moving on offense.

BUT you DO have Whirlwind Attack, which makes "one melee attack at your highest base attack bonus against each opponent within reach". Can you say LUNGE (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/lunge-combat---final)?
5ft. base Range (haft)
+5ft. Reach weapon
+5ft. Lunge
+5ft. if you can talk someone into Enlarging you....

Now THAT is a Whirlwind.

Hmmm...Enlarge Person he says....

MAGUS!
Kill THREE (or is it Four?) birds with one stone!
Ok. Hear me out.
Magus can learn/cast Enlarge Person (Two 1st level slots/day from 13+Int).
Spire Defender (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/magus/archetypes/paizo---magus-archetypes/spire-defender) archetype grants Dodge AND Combat Expertise as bonus feats.
Magus can cast spells without failure in Light Armor.

Other than slightly delaying some Fighter abilities, you are really only down 1 feat, BUT the level of Magus adds 2 feats, so you're actually up 1 feat, BUT you are still down 1 Bab, BUT being able to cast Enlarge Person raises your STR by 2 which gives you +1 to-hit, BUT being Large gives you a -1 to-hit, BUT...

EDIT: Long story short.
You lose 1 Bab, gain 1 feat, and can cast Enlarge Person while wearing Light Armor.

[Hiro Protagonest]

BUT you are still down 1 Bab, BUT being able to cast Enlarge Person raises your STR by 2, so the loss is negated.

Being large gives -1 to attack rolls.

[grarrrg]

Being large gives -1 to attack rolls.

BAH!
Reach+Damage > -1 to-hit.

But yes, you are correct.

[ExemplarofAvg]

Ah, thank you, reflexes and expertise were confused.
And 1 level of magus cannot be all that bad, especially since Fighter 10 gives me a bonus feat and that is it. Also Lunge is an excellent idea. However would it still allow me to attack with the 10ft and 5ft areas as well. I do think Magus seems like a good idea. Mage Hand, Light and Spark are wonderful cantrips to have unlimited uses of. And Enlarge Person with a Reach weapon and Lunge does promise to be interesting.

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Feats

Magus 1|
+0|
+2|
+0|
+2|Improved Initiative, Dodge, Combat Expertise

Magus 1/Fighter 1|
+1|
+4|
+0|
+2|Mounted Combat, Skill Focus [Ride]

Magus 1/Fighter 2|
+2|
+5|
+0|
+2|Weapon Focus (Lance), Mobility

Magus 1/Fighter 3|
+3|
+5|
+1|
+3|

Magus 1/Fighter 4|
+4|
+6|
+1|
+3|Weapon Specialization (Lance), Spring Attack

Magus 1/Fighter 5|
+5|
+6|
+1|
+3|

Magus 1/Fighter 6|
+6|
+7|
+2|
+4|Spear Dancer, Lunge

Magus 1/Fighter 7|
+7|
+7|
+2|
+4|

Magus 1/Fighter 8|
+8|
+8|
+2|
+4|Whirlwind Attack, Wind Stance

Magus 1/Fighter 9|
+9|
+8|
+3|
+5|[/table]

I debated tossing in the abilities, but seeing as the feats were the only confusing part I figured it was best to keep the table simple. Still looking for a Wind Stance alternative just in case my experience with the DM leaves it unnecessary. Also for the free exotic light weapon with the trip or disarm ability, Swordbreaker Dagger? (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons/weapon-descriptions/dagger-swordbreaker) or perhaps, an Aklys? (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons/weapon-descriptions/aklys)

[Cieyrin]

Lunge doesn't restrict how you use your reach like a normal reach weapon does, it just puts that AC penalty on you when you use it, so yes, you still threaten all the area you did before, it's just extended 5'.

As for Wind Stance, remember it only applies to ranged attacks, so I don't think it's necessarily a high priority. Cool, yes, but overcomeable by Seeking and Improved Precise Shot, which comes online shortly after you get Wind Stance or already for those Rangers and Zen Archers out there.

[grarrrg]

Also for the free exotic light weapon with the trip or disarm ability, Swordbreaker Dagger? (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons/weapon-descriptions/dagger-swordbreaker) or perhaps, an Aklys? (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons/weapon-descriptions/aklys)

Well... NONE of the options really look good.
Although it doesn't really help any, your freebie can be "Light or One-handed" exotic. So it doubles the amount of "meh" choices...
Basically your Lance, w/related abilities, out classes almost any choice you could make.
Aklys seems handy, a Ranged Trip weapon that can be retrieved as a Move action. But you can make Trips with your Lance, and with the Reach Stacking you can achieve the same Max Range anyway.

If anything, I'd go for the Swordbreaker dagger. It won't see much use, if any, but it has the best 'utility' value.


EDIT: After some rummaging, the Tekko-Kagi would be the only other useful weapon...depending on how your DM rules it to work.
(pics spoilered for space)
http://img5.blogs.yahoo.co.jp/ybi/1/90/59/nobuchan8484/folder/952987/img_952987_12657395_1?1237309881http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9a/Tekko-Kagi_Ninja1.jpg/418px-Tekko-Kagi_Ninja1.jpg
It is an Eastern (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons/eastern-weapons) weapon, so that might disallow it right there.
Tekko-Kagi (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons/weapon-descriptions/tekko-kagi)

A tekko-kagi can be used an offensive weapon, defensively like a buckler, or to disarm an opponent’s weapon without provoking an attack of opportunity. It provides its owner with a +2 circumstance bonus on attempts to disarm or sunder swords or other slender-bladed weapons.
I bolded the useful part.
If allowed, this would allow you to wear it while using your Lance. Then, IF the right situation occurs, you can just Free Action let go of your Lance with your Tekko-Kagi hand, make your Disarm/Sunder, and Free Action 2-hand your Lance again.
This would give it an actual in-combat use. Otherwise to use the Swordbreaker efficiently, you'd have to waste a feat on Quick Draw, and then either drop it, or waste a Move Action putting it away.

[ExemplarofAvg]

Lunge doesn't restrict how you use your reach like a normal reach weapon does, it just puts that AC penalty on you when you use it, so yes, you still threaten all the area you did before, it's just extended 5'.

As for Wind Stance, remember it only applies to ranged attacks, so I don't think it's necessarily a high priority. Cool, yes, but overcomeable by Seeking and Improved Precise Shot, which comes online shortly after you get Wind Stance or already for those Rangers and Zen Archers out there.

Awesomesauce.
And any better suggestions? I don't really enjoy wind stance, I just don't know what else other than Greater Weapon Focus to use.


Well... NONE of the options really look good.
Although it doesn't really help any, your freebie can be "Light or One-handed" exotic. So it doubles the amount of "meh" choices...
Basically your Lance, w/related abilities, out classes almost any choice you could make.
Aklys seems handy, a Ranged Trip weapon that can be retrieved as a Move action. But you can make Trips with your Lance, and with the Reach Stacking you can achieve the same Max Range anyway.

If anything, I'd go for the Swordbreaker dagger. It won't see much use, if any, but it has the best 'utility' value.


EDIT: After some rummaging, the Tekko-Kagi would be the only other useful weapon...depending on how your DM rules it to work.
(pics spoilered for space)
http://img5.blogs.yahoo.co.jp/ybi/1/90/59/nobuchan8484/folder/952987/img_952987_12657395_1?1237309881http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9a/Tekko-Kagi_Ninja1.jpg/418px-Tekko-Kagi_Ninja1.jpg
It is an Eastern (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons/eastern-weapons) weapon, so that might disallow it right there.
Tekko-Kagi (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons/weapon-descriptions/tekko-kagi)

I bolded the useful part.
If allowed, this would allow you to wear it while using your Lance. Then, IF the right situation occurs, you can just Free Action let go of your Lance with your Tekko-Kagi hand, make your Disarm/Sunder, and Free Action 2-hand your Lance again.
This would give it an actual in-combat use. Otherwise to use the Swordbreaker efficiently, you'd have to waste a feat on Quick Draw, and then either drop it, or waste a Move Action putting it away.

I was thinking of using the swordbreaker in situations where a lance isn't very viable. That whole disarm and trip addendum sucks. Because before that I already had like 12 different weapons in mind. But not after that part. My choices are limited. I mean it's not a huge part of the build by any means, but if I get a cool extra weapon, I want it to be just that.

Current thought is a "Boggle Wrench (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/3rd-party-equipment/3rd-Party-Weapons/alluria-publishing/wrench-boggle)" according to the stats given (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/3rd-party-equipment/3rd-Party-Weapons#exotic-one-handed) it fits all criteria, but I wouldn't be surprised if it had a few more special attacks capable (DM enjoys creativity, Sunder would be one considering it can be used as a hammer) in fact making both it and the lance shocking could give magic/technologic aspect and work as a sort of reasoning behind having it. Call it an OmniWrench if it helps.

[Cieyrin]

Awesomesauce.
And any better suggestions? I don't really enjoy wind stance, I just don't know what else other than Greater Weapon Focus to use.

If you could persuade your DM that Spring Attack and Whirlwind Attack can work with it, Vital Strike wouldn't be bad. On the other hand, you do suffer from that whole Strength penalty with a non-Finessable weapon situation, so GWF isn't necessarily a bad thing. Alternatively, if you can get your Strength high enough, you will still definitely benefit from Power Attack and friends, which is remarkably absent from your feat spread as a wielder of a two-handed weapon. Never too late to take advantage of it, since between WF and Spear Training, you can turn +3 hit into +9 damage without turning into a flurry of misses.

[grarrrg]

Current thought is a "Boggle Wrench (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/3rd-party-equipment/3rd-Party-Weapons/alluria-publishing/wrench-boggle)"

Racial weapons like this always kinda confuse me.

Boggles are SMALL creatures.
WHY ARE THERE STATS FOR A MEDIUM BOGGLE WRENCH??

The same goes for [any small race] with a Racial weapon.


Note: I am OK with the reverse of this, for example, and Elven Curve Blade.
Elves are normally Medium, but their Children would presumably need scaled down weapons to train with. So a Small Elven Curve Blade is fine.

[ExemplarofAvg]

If you could persuade your DM that Spring Attack and Whirlwind Attack can work with it, Vital Strike wouldn't be bad. On the other hand, you do suffer from that whole Strength penalty with a non-Finessable weapon situation, so GWF isn't necessarily a bad thing. Alternatively, if you can get your Strength high enough, you will still definitely benefit from Power Attack and friends, which is remarkably absent from your feat spread as a wielder of a two-handed weapon. Never too late to take advantage of it, since between WF and Spear Training, you can turn +3 hit into +9 damage without turning into a flurry of misses.

What level do you suggest it being added, I assume there is an optimal position. Anything is movable baring Whirlwind Attack, I really like getting that when I can attack within close range. As well anything being moved that would render Whirlwind Attack unobtainable is given as a bad idea.



Racial weapons like this always kinda confuse me.

Boggles are SMALL creatures.
WHY ARE THERE STATS FOR A MEDIUM BOGGLE WRENCH??

The same goes for [any small race] with a Racial weapon.


Note: I am OK with the reverse of this, for example, and Elven Curve Blade.
Elves are normally Medium, but their Children would presumably need scaled down weapons to train with. So a Small Elven Curve Blade is fine.

Easy
*Random human fighting boggles*
"Behold my fellows, [Picks up the small boggle wrench] This small creature did do battle with a wrench"
[Laughs are Shared]
"Wouldst that be a good weapon?"

And thus fighter/mechanics are born, :smalltongue:

[Cieyrin]

What level do you suggest it being added, I assume there is an optimal position. Anything is movable baring Whirlwind Attack, I really like getting that when I can attack within close range. As well anything being moved that would render Whirlwind Attack unobtainable is given as a bad idea.

For which option? Generally, feats are best when they first become available. Vital Strike opens up at 6-7, GWF at 8th. Power Attack can be fitted in in a lot of places, though good breakpoints are at BAB intervals of 4, when it upgrades.

[Hylas]

If you could persuade your DM that Spring Attack and Whirlwind Attack can work with it, Vital Strike wouldn't be bad.

Vital strike works with Spring Attack but not Whirlwind Attack. You can use any standard action attack with Spring Attack including cleave or a combat maneuver.

[Cieyrin]

Vital strike works with Spring Attack but not Whirlwind Attack. You can use any standard action attack with Spring Attack including cleave or a combat maneuver.

I find that doubtful, considering Spring Attack specifically says it takes a Full Round action and you get to make a single melee attack, not an attack action. Vital Strike and Cleave are both Standard Actions and thus incompatible. You can't combine Vital Strike with a charge, so why should Spring Attack be any different by RAW? At least that's Jason Buhlman's interpretation (http://paizo.com/forums/dmtz1grg?Charging-with-a-Vital-Strike#22), why should I dispute that? Personally, I'd rather have more flexibility with Vital Strike in how I can use it, since it currently doesn't combine with anything else, but that's not how it currently works.

[StreamOfTheSky]

I suggest Mobile Fighter (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter/archetypes/paizo---fighter-archetypes/mobile-fighter) with the feats Whirlwind Attack (and all pre-reqs, unless you can find a way to avoid them :smallfrown: ), Lunge, Dazing Assault, Pin Down, and Combat Reflexes. It's unrelated, but Nimble Moves is generally a good idea to ensure you can always use the Leaping Attack.

With the level 11 Rapid Attack class feature, you can move up to your speed and use WWA to hit all but the enemy you started out closest to. You can use Lunge to expand your reach to hit even more people. And Dazing Assault to potentially daze each enemy you strike. Even before the rapid attack and dazing assault, WWA + Lunge + 5 ft step is pretty good for clearing a room.

Pin Down is just a nice bonus option to use AoOs to halt enemies' movement cold. In general, you're better off using Dazing Assault, but there may be times Pin Down is useful, too.

You end up with a character that can dash around the battlefield dealing death and dazing, while also controlling a wide swath around himself w/ reach + daze or pin down.

Don't forget the enlarge person potions / friendly castings to double your reach.

Given the fighting style of the character and your thread title, consider naming the character Ma Chao (http://koei.wikia.com/wiki/Ma_Chao). :smallcool:

Personality
Filled with a warrior's pride, Ma Chao is a straightforward man who believes in making his future with his own power. A firm believer of justice and heroics, he is always intent on declaring his intentions for all to hear. His determined proclamations are not always appreciated by his listeners from his home or from rival armies since he often yells the loudest in Shu's army. While his charisma and honesty wins him followers, his lack of foresight and planning sometimes robs them of their trust, as he sometimes neglects to consider others while completing his own personal goals.


Quotes
■"I fear nothing and no one!"
■"No matter how dastardly the foe, none can withstand my spear of justice!"
■"You, who murder innocent people, do not deserve to live!"
■"To think that I would be praised so much... I'm glad that I have endured for so long!"
■"Ma Chao, you fought well. There is no need to throw your life away. Join me!"
"I would endure the pain and anguish of a thousand deaths before joining the likes of you!"
~~Cao Cao and Ma Chao; Dynasty Warriors 6: Special
■"This world is warped in so many ways... Will we ever be able to see justice here, I wonder?"
"Master Ma Chao, justice resides not in the world itself, but in the hearts of those that inhabit it!"
"You're right! As long as honor burns within my heart, I may find justice there!"
~~Ma Chao and Kanetsugu Naoe; Warriors Orochi 3

[Hylas]

I find that doubtful, considering Spring Attack specifically says it takes a Full Round action and you get to make a single melee attack, not an attack action.

Paizo seems divided on the issue. (http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderRPG/rules/vitalStrikeAndRAYS&page=1)


To move, yes. Was the design goal to allow it during Move->Vital->Move say from Spring Attack?
I'd certainly let my players do that in games I run.

Personally I think that players should be allowed to use cleave or vital strike with spring attack because of the 4+ feat investment to make it work. But in the end it comes down to what the GM will and won't allow.

I found official errata and you can't use vital strike with spring attack. Everyone may now go back to standing still in combat.

[Cieyrin]

Personally I think that players should be allowed to use cleave or vital strike with spring attack because of the 4+ feat investment to make it work. But in the end it comes down to what the GM will and won't allow.

I found official errata and you can't use vital strike with spring attack. Everyone may now go back to standing still in combat.

I agree, I'm just stating how it works by RAW. It's why I originally stated when I made the suggestion to convince the DM that Vital Strike and Spring Attack can work together in harmony. If Spring Attack was written like Flyby Attack, there wouldn't be any dispute at all but it's not. C'est la vie. :smallannoyed:

[ExemplarofAvg]

FINAL SETUP

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save| Abilities |Feats

Magus 1|
+0|
+2|
+0|
+2|Arcane Pool, Cantrips, Spell Combat|Improved Initiative, Dodge, Combat Expertise, Run

Magus 1/Fighter 1|
+1|
+4|
+0|
+2|Skilled Rider|Mounted Combat, Skill Focus [Ride]

Magus 1/Fighter 2|
+2|
+5|
+0|
+2|Bravery|Weapon Focus (Lance), Mobility

Magus 1/Fighter 3|
+3|
+5|
+1|
+3|Armour Training|

Magus 1/Fighter 4|
+4|
+6|
+1|
+3||Weapon Specialization (Lance), Spring Attack

Magus 1/Fighter 5|
+5|
+6|
+1|
+3|Spear Training|

Magus 1/Fighter 6|
+6|
+7|
+2|
+4||Spear Dancer, Lunge

Magus 1/Fighter 7|
+7|
+7|
+2|
+4|Spinning Lance|

Magus 1/Fighter 8|
+8|
+8|
+2|
+4||Whirlwind Attack, Power Attack

Magus 1/Fighter 9|
+9|
+8|
+3|
+5|Banner|[/table]

Race: Xip
+2 Dex, −2 Str, −4 Con
Medium Size
80ft Speed
Dash: Gain Run as a Bonus feat.

Formalized Pathfinder Stat Block
"Undecided" (Lancer as Placeholder)
M Xip Spire Defender 1/Dragoon 9
LN M
Init +8, Perception +11

Defense
AC 19, Touch 15, Flat-Footed 14 (+4 Armor, +4 Dex, +1 Dodge)
Hp ? (1d8+9d10),
Fort +8, Ref +7, Will +6, (+4 on Will saves vs. Fear)

Offence
Speed: 80ft,
Melee: Lance +14/+9/+4 (1d8+1d6 Electric+9), Reach
Special Attacks:
Zap: Uses the but of the Lance to attack adjacent enemies +14/+9/+4 (1d6+1d6 Electric+9)
Lightning's Dash: Spring Attack
Thunder's Fury: Whirlwind Attack
Striking: Lunge
True: Power Attack
Charging Lance: Charge

Finishers
True Lightning Strike: Charging Power Spring Attack*
-4 AC, +1 to hit, +6 Damage, 160ft Line, 1 Opponent.
+15 (1d8+1d6 Electric+15)
*My group has always used Spring Attack+Charge, regardless of the Legality)

Fury of the Storm: Lunging Power Whirlwind Attack
-2 AC, −2 hit, +6 Damage, All enemies within 15ft
+12 (1d8+1d6 Electric+15), on all enemies within 10-15ft
+12 (1d6+1d6 Electric+15), on all Adjacent enemies.

Statistics
Str 14, Dex 18, Con 10, Int 14, Wis 12, Cha 14
Base Attack +9, CMB +11, CMD 25
Feats:Improved Initiative, Dodge, Combat Expertise, Run, Mounted Combat, Skill Focus [Ride], Weapon Focus (Lance), Mobility, Weapon Specialization (Lance), Spring Attack, Spear Dancer, Lunge, Whirlwind Attack, Power Attack
Skills:Knowledge (Arcana) +15, Ride +17, Perception +11, Use Magic Device +15
Languages:Xip, Common, Gnome, Halfling
Combat Gear: Studded Leather Armour, Bright Spear (+1 Shocking Burst Lance)
Special Abilities:
Arcane Pool: 3, 1 Point = Grant weapon a +1 bonus for 1 minute (20 rounds)
Spells before Int Modifier:
3 Lv 0,
2 Lv 1,
Spells Known
Cantrips (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/spell-lists-and-domains/magus-spell-list#TOC-0-Level-Magus-Spells-Cantrips-)
5 Lv 1: Enlarge Person, Grease, Mount, Shocking Grasp, Weapon-wand
Bravery: +2 bonus on Will saves vs. Fear
Armour Training: Penalty less by 1, Maximum dexterity up by 1.
Spear Training: +2 on Attack Rolls, +4 on Damage Rolls
Spinning Lance: May attack adjacent enemies with butt of lance (treat as Club 1d6 20/x2)
Banner: All allies within 60ft gain a +2 morale bonus vs. fear, and +1 on attack rolls as part of a charge (you count as your own ally for the purposes of this ability)

Background: Coming Soon

[Cieyrin]

As a meleer, I'd give yourself a higher Con, as even with reach, you'll be getting hit and more hitpoints means more hitting people back. I'd take from mental stats, as you could get away with Int 11 with just the 1 level dip of Magus, though 12 will get you a second 1st level slot. 14 just nets you more skill points, which while nice, are not strictly necessary. Taking from Wis or Cha may be a better choice.

[ExemplarofAvg]

As a meleer, I'd give yourself a higher Con, as even with reach, you'll be getting hit and more hitpoints means more hitting people back. I'd take from mental stats, as you could get away with Int 11 with just the 1 level dip of Magus, though 12 will get you a second 1st level slot. 14 just nets you more skill points, which while nice, are not strictly necessary. Taking from Wis or Cha may be a better choice.

I would have chosen to as well. but given I had to have a natural −4 I was lucky to roll a 14 in that slot, no bonus sure, but no penalty. (We got together at 11, began play at noon) All in all the character performs well, the extra intelligence was to get perception (which when combined with my speed allows me to scout quite nicely) and extra spells known. Specifically Weapon-wand and Mount, giving me the ability to act as a lancer division with a wonderful weapon. Spell Combat Shocking Grasp and then activate the spell in the wand (which we still don't know because Knowledge [Arcana] while fitting the character is no replacement for a good spellcraft. But UMD with the wand made the thing work, so no complaints here. And I have a new special attack, haha.)

Sleipnir's Courage: A Full Mounted Power Attack + Horse's Full-Attack (4 hooves, yeah, 4[FOUR])
+13/+8/+3, if all hit 3d8+3d6+18
+0/+0/+0/+0, 1d6+2, 1d6+2, 1d6+2, 1d6+2.
Maximum Damage Potential: 3d8+7d6+26=92, not bad.
Downsides, I can't move before it so the enemy has to be right in front of me.

Also yes, for some DM reason related, I summoned Odin's Horse, don't ask, I'm not sure why, could just be a one time thing, I could have been Lightning from FFXIII in a past life, the DM could just be poking fun at that, what I do know is it can keep up with me, and has 4 hooves in it's attack.. Not one to complain. Okay, maybe a little, but seriously, A Dragon Disciple with a Pet Dragon and a Rogue who has a Snake up his sleeve (Literally) I guess the Dm felt I needed a cool pet as well.