Simple lvl 12 Cohort build help!

[Dusto]

Now that I have my Beguiler is up and running (thank you again everyone who helped me create him), I picked up leadership and need to have my cohort ready for our next game. Our DM is cool with leadership, unless you actually try to do anything fancy with your cohort, so I am looking for something simple to mostly helpout myself and then our party secondary. Our party all around level 14 consists of a Crusader/Warblade/Swordsage, Fighter/Dragonshaman/Crusader, Warlock/Warmage w/a cleric cohort, Scout/Ranger and my Beguiler/Mindbender.

I was thinking of doing a simplified melee build to help the melee characters in the party and possibly to just attack stuff that finds my sneaky beguiler. Equipment will be very limited. All 3.5 hardcover is allowed except anything setting specific, UA or from the psionic books. 32pt build and character would be anything Neutral or Evil.

Thank you in advance playground!

[dascarletm]

Quick Question: What does your party do the majority of the campaign? Is it a war campaign, sea-faring, intrigue, standard dungeon crawl, mix of many things.... etc.?

[Gwendol]

A bard would do wonders for your group. Focus on inspire courage and buffs/debuffs.

[dascarletm]

A bard would do wonders for your group. Focus on inspire courage and buffs/debuffs.

yes actually. That'll work with anything.

[Dusto]

Quick Question: What does your party do the majority of the campaign? Is it a war campaign, sea-faring, intrigue, standard dungeon crawl, mix of many things.... etc.?

It is a war campaign, but our group is sort of a black ops which can lead us anywhere from a dungeon crawl, sneaking behind enemy lines and just about anything else that gets thrown at us.

[Dusto]

I did consider bard, but am leaning away from it mostly for two reasons. My character already does some battlefield control type stuff and while not super familiar with running bards, I want something very simple that will take away very minimial effort of bookkeeping and decisions from running my main character.

[SowZ]

I did consider bard, but am leaning away from it mostly for two reasons. My character already does some battlefield control type stuff and while not super familiar with running bards, I want something very simple that will take away very minimial effort of bookkeeping and decisions from running my main character.

If you focus on your buffing songs and do little actual spellcasting with the exception of some buffs, the bookkeeping will be minor. Calculating the little passive boosts everyone gets should be a one time thing, really.

[Downysole]

If you focus on your buffing songs and do little actual spellcasting with the exception of some buffs, the bookkeeping will be minor. Calculating the little passive boosts everyone gets should be a one time thing, really.

My buddy plays a bard in our group. He sometimes falls asleep while combat is going on at the table. He just tosses up his buffs, chooses what stacking abilities to throw in, and stays out of trouble, occasionally performing the Aid Another action and getting into flanking.

Very easy to play.

Would also allow you to make use of the random gear you might find like a cli lyre.

[Dusto]

Well, if put that way and it really would be something that simple, then that might work out. Anyone with a few free moments to throw up a build idea?

[SowZ]

Well, if put that way and it really would be something that simple, then that might work out. Anyone with a few free moments to throw up a build idea?

Alignment should be chaotic so you can choose to take chaos music should you ever decide to level up in a different class or go Sublime Chord. Human is a great bard race. He isn't offense, so just focus on the bardic music aspects.

If you get in lots of fights a day, extra music is good. Lingering song may be worth a feat if your DM runs fights really long. Got any rogues in the party? Chord of distraction is nice in a pinch, (uses a bardic music to make someone flatfooted against any one party member for a turn.)

[Dusto]

Alignment should be chaotic so you can choose to take chaos music should you ever decide to level up in a different class or go Sublime Chord. Human is a great bard race. He isn't offense, so just focus on the bardic music aspects.

If you get in lots of fights a day, extra music is good. Lingering song may be worth a feat if your DM runs fights really long. Got any rogues in the party? Chord of distraction is nice in a pinch, (uses a bardic music to make someone flatfooted against any one party member for a turn.)

I think to keep him simple I would probably just go straight bard.

Our fights do seem to go very long, so I will for sure look into lingering song. We don't have any sneak attackers in the party. My beguiler gets bonuses to flat-footed things, but I have very high hide and other ways to get my spells in sneakily.

Thanks for the info!

[SowZ]

I think to keep him simple I would probably just go straight bard.

Our fights do seem to go very long, so I will for sure look into lingering song. We don't have any sneak attackers in the party. My beguiler gets bonuses to flat-footed things, but I have very high hide and other ways to get my spells in sneakily.

Thanks for the info!

No problem! Just pump Charisma. I figure the party already has most important skills covered and the cohort doesn't want to take center stage so skill points shouldn't be that important and Bards get a lot, anyway. Enough to keep your perform maxed and maybe 5 ranks in history plus use magic device and anything else that you feel he needs. Maybe tumble or stealth skills or something, I don't know. I'd recommend putting too much in social skills so as to avoid upstaging the parties face with one part of a feat or class feature. So Intelligence is not vital, though bardic knowledge may be cool to you.

If you want any ranged offense or good reflex/AC Dex is next most important to a bard. Plink with a crossbow, maybe, so dump strength, too. Without speccing for it melee isn't a great option. Melee bards can be good but why bother? Con is, of course, always good. Wis is also largely irrelevant.

[Dusto]

I think that I would like to have him hit at range with a bow/crossbow. My question on that is will he need to waste rounds using his instrument, putting it away and pulling out/loading his bow? If so that seems very cumbersome :(

[SowZ]

I think that I would like to have him hit at range with a bow/crossbow. My question on that is will he need to waste rounds using his instrument, putting it away and pulling out/loading his bow? If so that seems very cumbersome :(

No, you can choose to make your Bard a singer. You can have an instrument for fluff, though. I like the idea of a bow where the string is also a violin string and you pull back and string with the violin bow, which has a hooked end for pulling. If your DM allows things like this which don't alter mechanics. Just don't allow it to be masterwork, which is the real reason for using an instrument in the first place.

[Dusto]

Roughly I think that I am looking at a build of for my cohort. I'd like him to be ranged support with some small tricks. Again, just mostly looking to keep it simple.

Human Lvl 12 - 32pt Build

STR - 10
DEX - 16
CON - 14
INT - 10
WIS - 10
CHA - 16

Human - Dragon Touched
Feat lvl 1 - Dragonfire Inspiration
Bard1 - Bardic Music, Bardic Knack(lose badic knowledge), Healing Hymn(lose fascinate), Inspire Courage, Mimicking Song(lose countersong).
Bard2 -
Feat lvl 3 - Point blank shot
Bard3 - Inspire Competence
Ability lvl 4 - +1 DEX
Bard4 -
Bard5 -
Feat lvl 6 - Precise Shot
Bard6 - Suggestion
Bard7 -
Ability lvl 8 - +1 DEX
Bard8 - Inspire Courage +2
Feat lvl 9 - Lingering Song
Bard9 - Inspire Greatness
Bard10 -
Bard11 -
Ability lvl 12 - +1 DEX
Feat lvl 12 - Melodic Casting
Bard12 - Song of Freedom

He won't have much cash to buy with, but hopefully I can snag up a Badge of Valor, Vest of Legends and a Harmonizing Shortbow.


Any suggestions or obvious things I am missing?

[Dusto]

No, you can choose to make your Bard a singer. You can have an instrument for fluff, though. I like the idea of a bow where the string is also a violin string and you pull back and string with the violin bow, which has a hooked end for pulling. If your DM allows things like this which don't alter mechanics. Just don't allow it to be masterwork, which is the real reason for using an instrument in the first place.

Hmm.... maybe he can use a harmonica that he's got setup with something to hold it in front of him like I see many musicians these days do.

[Roguenewb]

Roughly I think that I am looking at a build of for my cohort. I'd like him to be ranged support with some small tricks. Again, just mostly looking to keep it simple.

Human Lvl 12 - 32pt Build

STR - 10
DEX - 16
CON - 14
INT - 10
WIS - 10
CHA - 16

Human - Dragon Touched
Feat lvl 1 - Dragonfire Inspiration
Bard1 - Bardic Music, Bardic Knack(lose badic knowledge), Healing Hymn(lose fascinate), Inspire Courage, Mimicking Song(lose countersong).
Bard2 -
Feat lvl 3 - Precise Shot
Bard3 - Inspire Competence
Ability lvl 4 - +1 DEX
Bard4 -
Bard5 -
Feat lvl 6 - Point Blank Shot
Bard6 - Suggestion
Bard7 -
Ability lvl 8 - +1 DEX
Bard8 - Inspire Courage +2
Feat lvl 9 - Lingering Song
Bard9 - Inspire Greatness
Bard10 -
Bard11 -
Ability lvl 12 - +1 DEX
Feat lvl 12 - Melodic Casting
Bard12 - Song of Freedom

He won't have much cash to buy with, but hopefully I can snag up a Badge of Valor, Vest of Legends and a Harmonizing Shortbow.


Any suggestions or obvious things I am missing?

There is a race in Dragon Magic that gives humans the dragonblood subtype at the cost of the skill point per level (which bard doesn't really need). That build doesn't actually appear to qualify for precise shot (which isn't a great choice). Take Snowflake Wardance instead. But, I think the best Buff Bard, espcially if you don't need a ton of spell casting is Bard 7/War Chanter 5. You'll get the two song melding, and you'll get Haste from the bard, and the best of the Warchanter music. For fun, talk your DM into my favorite move: Dragonfire Inspiration and normal Inspire Courage blended. Next level, take a level in bard, and you'll get up to +4 Inspire (easily). With a little more optimization you can hit +5, and if you wanna go whole hog, shove Words of Creation in there, and let your Bard give 10d6 fire damage to all weapons. Note: This bard will be an all-star, but his in combat use will be soooo boring to do that he'll make an excellent cohort.

[Dusto]

There is a race in Dragon Magic that gives humans the dragonblood subtype at the cost of the skill point per level (which bard doesn't really need). That build doesn't actually appear to qualify for precise shot (which isn't a great choice). Take Snowflake Wardance instead. But, I think the best Buff Bard, espcially if you don't need a ton of spell casting is Bard 7/War Chanter 5. You'll get the two song melding, and you'll get Haste from the bard, and the best of the Warchanter music. For fun, talk your DM into my favorite move: Dragonfire Inspiration and normal Inspire Courage blended. Next level, take a level in bard, and you'll get up to +4 Inspire (easily). With a little more optimization you can hit +5, and if you wanna go whole hog, shove Words of Creation in there, and let your Bard give 10d6 fire damage to all weapons. Note: This bard will be an all-star, but his in combat use will be soooo boring to do that he'll make an excellent cohort.

I'll take a look at that race for sure. But can't do the words, this cohort can't be good aligned :)

[Bronk]

Feat suggestion: subsonics (your bard could be singing non stop without alerting foes...

Spell suggestion: Inspirational boost: swift spell, +1 to inspire courage... that would also help with the dragonfire inspiration...

[Dusto]

Feat suggestion: subsonics (your bard could be singing non stop without alerting foes...

Spell suggestion: Inspirational boost: swift spell, +1 to inspire courage... that would also help with the dragonfire inspiration...

Nice, I actually really like that feat! And that's perfect for doing sneaky type missions, thanks!

[Dusto]

Took a look at silverbrow human, and that ties them to silver dragon which would be cold damage. I was really hoping to get acid or sonic damage if at all possible.