Wings of Cover Question

[Roguenewb]

If I'm having a fireball thrown at an area I am included in, can I use Wings of Cover to get +4 on reflex saves? And I thought that somewhere it was said that full cover granted evasion, but I can't find it.

Thanks in advance for any help!

[StreamOfTheSky]

Not aware of that evasion rule, but yes you could use it for +4 on reflex save vs. area of effect spells.

That is by far and away the least powerful use of this wonderfully overpowered spell, though. :smallsmile:

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Short answer: No.

Long answer: Better.


The wings of force last
just long enough to disrupt your foe’s
line of effect to you, providing you
total cover against a single attack with
a weapon, spell, or psionic power.

Simple cover gives you a +4 to saves. Total cover completely blocks the spell's effect from even having a chance of hitting you. Wings of Cover doesn't give you a bonus to save against an instantaneous spell, it completely prevents the spell from touching you regardless of any other circumstances.

[KillianHawkeye]

BF is correct on the spell granting you total cover, but I figure I can clear up a few things concerning what bonuses cover grants.

Standard cover grants +4 AC and +2 to Reflex saves. Improved cover doubles those bonuses and also effectively provides you with improved evasion.
source (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatModifiers.htm#cover)

[Roguenewb]

And since wings of cover says if they still attack the area you get +8ac and +4 on reflex saves...it's that improved cover and I get improved evasion against that effect?

[AmberVael]

Wings of Cover specifically says that when it is used against area attacks, it grants you +8 ac and +4 to reflex saves. It provides no more and no less- you don't get evasion or improved evasion, nor does it completely block the attack. The bonus to AC and Reflex is all you get.

[Roguenewb]

Wings of Cover specifically says that when it is used against area attacks, it grants you +8 ac and +4 to reflex saves. It provides no more and no less- you don't get evasion or improved evasion, nor does it completely block the attack. The bonus to AC and Reflex is all you get.

And monks aren't proficient with unarmed strikes, it says what they're proficient with, and it doesn't list unarmed strikes so they get no more no less.

[Curmudgeon]

And monks aren't proficient with unarmed strikes, it says what they're proficient with, and it doesn't list unarmed strikes so they get no more no less.
That's completely correct, and why granting Monks unarmed strike proficiency is #1 on my (fairly short) list of house rules.

You should always start by knowing what the actual rules are.

[AmberVael]

And monks aren't proficient with unarmed strikes, it says what they're proficient with, and it doesn't list unarmed strikes so they get no more no less.

Yes, by RAW monks aren't proficient with Improved Unarmed Strikes. Given how much emphasis the class has on unarmed strikes, this seems like a clear oversight.

How this relates to Wings of Cover, I'm not sure- the specific case of what Wings of Cover does against an area attack is spelled out clearly. There's no obvious reason to think it should do something else.

[B33rm4n]

This comes down to simple interpretation. The spell clearly states that it gives you +8 Ac and +4 to reflex saves in the case of an area attack. Which is the same exact bonuses given to someone with improved cover in the case of having better than total cover. Honestly I would rule that yes you should get improved evasion in the case of this spell, but honestly it's up to your DM. (In addition i would like to add that in MOST cases, +8 ac isn't doing you much justice against most "area" attacks.)

[Curmudgeon]

This comes down to simple interpretation. The spell clearly states that it gives you +8 Ac and +4 to reflex saves in the case of an area attack. Which is the same exact bonuses given to someone with improved cover in the case of having better than total cover. Honestly I would rule that yes you should get improved evasion in the case of this spell
Having the same bonuses and being the same thing are different. And giving extra capabilities to an already very powerful spell is just very, very wrong.

[Roderick_BR]

From the SRD: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatModifiers.htm

Cover and Reflex Saves
Cover grants you a +2 bonus on Reflex saves against attacks that originate or burst out from a point on the other side of the cover from you. Note that spread effects can extend around corners and thus negate this cover bonus.

Total Cover
If you don’t have line of effect to your target he is considered to have total cover from you. You can’t make an attack against a target that has total cover.

Varying Degrees of Cover
In some cases, cover may provide a greater bonus to AC and Reflex saves. In such situations the normal cover bonuses to AC and Reflex saves can be doubled (to +8 and +4, respectively). A creature with this improved cover effectively gains improved evasion against any attack to which the Reflex save bonus applies. Furthermore, improved cover provides a +10 bonus on Hide checks.

So, for my interpretation, I agree, it could give an improved evasion like bonus (personally, against spread effects, I'd allow "just" the non-improved evasion effect)

[Tyndmyr]

And since wings of cover says if they still attack the area you get +8ac and +4 on reflex saves...it's that improved cover and I get improved evasion against that effect?

This. It says you get +8AC, +4 Ref saves. So, you get exactly that.

It does not say improved cover, sadly. Consult your DM for interpretation.

[KillianHawkeye]

This comes down to simple interpretation. The spell clearly states that it gives you +8 Ac and +4 to reflex saves in the case of an area attack. Which is the same exact bonuses given to someone with improved cover in the case of having better than total cover.

You can't get better than total cover.... :smallconfused: