PDA

View Full Version : Fiendish Vermin and Feats



Deophaun
2012-07-25, 10:20 PM
Do fiendish vermin, such as a fiendish monstrous centipede, gain skill points and feats to go with their inherited 3 Int score? And if not, why?

Looking at the vermin description, the fiendish template, and whatever I can find in the MM, it seems they do (although perhaps not the skill points, depending on how the section about recalculating monster statistics is read under the fiendish template). However, when I checked this particular SRD site (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/monstrousCentipede.htm), it seems not. But, that wouldn't be the first time a monster was calculated oddly/incorrectly.

So, what, if anything, am I missing here? Also, how the heck would you adjudicate it for the purposes of the summon monster series?

Thurbane
2012-07-26, 02:00 AM
Size and Type
Animals or vermin with this template become magical beasts, but otherwise the creature type is unchanged. Size is unchanged. Fiendish creatures encountered on the Material Plane have the extraplanar subtype.
...and as a Magical Beast, gains feats normally. Or at least, that's how I thought it worked. The SRD you linked seems to disagree.

whibla
2012-07-26, 07:14 AM
...and as a Magical Beast, gains feats normally. Or at least, that's how I thought it worked. The SRD you linked seems to disagree.

A contradiction between the various sources? I'm shocked, shocked I tell you!

However, levity aside, and even with text trumps table, etc:

The reason most do not get feats etc is "However, most vermin are mindless and gain no skill points or feats" (vermin traits, MM pg. 317)

The reason they continue to not get feats is a combination of a couple of things. Firstly, while "Animals or vermin with this template become magical beasts" the fiendish template entry goes on to say "A fiendish creature uses all the base creature’s statistics and abilities except as noted here. Do not recalculate the creature’s Hit Dice, base attack bonus, saves, or skill points if its type changes."

There is no entry under the template for Feats, and the base creature had no feats to start with.

Strange, but it appears there is no contradiction after all. Now I'm shocked...