What is the best two-handed Martial Weapon?

[Morithias]

Hey everyone! I'm looking for a good weapon for my Barbarian. Unfortionatly it has to be martial or simple due to me not having a spare feat for EWP (I blew two of her feats on making her super-humanly immune to alcohol).

So what in the general concenous is the "Best" two handed weapon in terms of raw damage. This woman is a barbarian who mostly cares about getting drunk and smashing things, so she's not going to bother with some kind of tripping or sundering weapon, her strategy is basically

1. Rage and charge, full power attack?
Is it dead? If yes goto one, if no goto two.
2. Full power attack.
Is it dead? If yes goto one, if no goto two, if it looks like you are hopelessly outmatched, run.

So what would you recommend for smashy mcsmashy?

I have her at level three currently, but feel free to suggest anything, since I made this character for fun and not really for a campaign.

[LordBlades]

If you're planning on power attacking a lot, the Falchion or Scythe (Keen ASAP) is your best bet. The more bonus damage you have, the more important crit stats (range and modifier) become compared to base damage.

Depending on how much optimization you want to get into this character, you might want to go Falchion over Scythe as x4 crits would most likely be way overkill.

[Cespenar]

Falchion seems to be the best bet, yes. In terms of full on damage, at least.

[dextercorvia]

Personally, I like reach. I would go for a Glaive. I prefer Guisarme sometimes, but if you know you don't intend to trip with it, Glaive has a bit better damage die.

Of course, its hard to go wrong with even a Greatsword.

[CreganTur]

For me it's 1 of 2 options:

Spiked Chain- it's the only reach weapon that can attack adjacent targets. It does require an exotic weapons feat, but it's totally worth it... unless you play a Ninja(PF)- they get a version of the spiked chain for free, but IIRC their version does a little less base weapon damage.

Falchion- throw keen on it and you're looking at a 15-20 X2 Crit range. That's nothing to sneeze at for martial characters. Having a 15-20 threat range on my magus was AMAZING, especially since spell critical rules normally applied since I was almost always channeling.

[dextercorvia]

For me it's 1 of 2 options:

Spiked Chain- it's the only reach weapon that can attack adjacent targets. It does require an exotic weapons feat, but it's totally worth it... unless you play a Ninja(PF)- they get a version of the spiked chain for free, but IIRC their version does a little less base weapon damage.

Falchion- throw keen on it and you're looking at a 15-20 X2 Crit range. That's nothing to sneeze at for martial characters. Having a 15-20 threat range on my magus was AMAZING, especially since spell critical rules normally applied since I was almost always channeling.

The PF Spiked Chain also isn't a Reach Weapon, which makes it totally not worth a feat.

[Togo]

I'd go with Falchion (for the crit range), greatsword (for the damage), AND as a backup a large club (-2 to hit for outsized weapon, d8 damage, but the party druid can do nice things to it, and it's something to use against rust monsters and sunder specialists. Oil of Shiliegh gets you up to 3d6 damage.


The real answer is, of course, whatever you DM is most likely to include in the game as a magic item. If he's using random charts, or prepublished material, it's best not to get too invested in an unusual weapon, as you'll never get an upgrade.

[Gwendol]

Seconding greatclub and generous applications of oil of shillelagh.

[Andezzar]

Shillelagh (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shillelagh.htm) only works on Quarterstaffs and Clubs, not Greatclubs.

[Gwendol]

That's an overly narrow interpretation IMO. A club is just a piece of wood, as is a greatclub.

[Keld Denar]

Executioner's Mace (Dungeon 113) if a favorite of mine. 2d6 19/20 like a greatsword, but it is the only weapon that is both Bludgeoning and Slashing. This is awesome because then it is a legal target for both Greater Mighty Wallop (size stacking!), and can be used as a focus for Whirling Blade, my favorite gish spell.

[Andezzar]

That's an overly narrow interpretation IMO. A club is just a piece of wood, as is a greatclub.I'm not saying that it should not work, but the rules only mention two specific weapons (the club and the quarterstaff).

There are several other weapons (possibly without stats) that basically are just pieces of wood: tonfa, bokken, an actual shillelagh, or a bow used as a melee weapon. Best ask your DM to which weapon the spell applies before assuming.

[Tytalus]

If you're planning on power attacking a lot, the Falchion or Scythe (Keen ASAP) is your best bet. The more bonus damage you have, the more important crit stats (range and modifier) become compared to base damage.

The bonus damage from criticals tends to get overestimated.

With a 50% chance to hit an opponent, a falchion's break-even point in terms of damage (compared to a greatsword) is achieved when you hit a damage bonus* of 39+. That's quite a lot, even for a power attacking character.

If the weapons are keen, this point is reached much earlier, at a bonus of 19. Still not trivial to achieve.

Overall, of course, criticals are fun, so I'd go for it anyway.

The Scythe and the falchion deal the same average damage, by the way, keen or not. However, the potential for "overkill" is greater. It's a matter of personal taste: more frequent crits or more devastating ones.

---

*Damage bonus = all static bonuses to damage that are multiplied in case of a critical, i.e. strength bonus, enhancement bonus of the weapon, power attack bonus, etc.

[Morithias]

Executioner's Mace (Dungeon 113) if a favorite of mine. 2d6 19/20 like a greatsword, but it is the only weapon that is both Bludgeoning and Slashing. This is awesome because then it is a legal target for both Greater Mighty Wallop (size stacking!), and can be used as a focus for Whirling Blade, my favorite gish spell.

Oh...the falcion and scythe with brutal crits is tempting, but I just can't pass this up. Bludgeoning and Slashing means she can basically smash anything from a zombie to a lich with this one weapon. Plus for a "smash smash smash" brute, the hammer type weapon just seems to fit better.

Thank you for all the help people! (Seriously though all the best weapons are SRD? There isn't anything martial better in all the splats? Heh.)

Thanks again people. I'm going to enjoy this character if I ever get to play her (+18 on saves verse alcohol at level 3, I actually looked it up, she can drink a STONE GIANT under the table in a fair fight).

[Gwendol]

I like the way your mind works for designing characters!

[Gwendol]

I'm not saying that it should not work, but the rules only mention two specific weapons (the club and the quarterstaff).

There are several other weapons (possibly without stats) that basically are just pieces of wood: tonfa, bokken, an actual shillelagh, or a bow used as a melee weapon. Best ask your DM to which weapon the spell applies before assuming.

But the difference between a club and greatclub is that the latter can't be wielded one handed effectively. It's really just a Large club. Unless Large druids can't use the oil?

[dextercorvia]

(Seriously though all the best weapons are SRD? There isn't anything martial better in all the splats? Heh.)

Most of the weapons in splats are Exotic.

[Andezzar]

But the difference between a club and greatclub is that the latter can't be wielded one handed effectively. It's really just a Large club. Unless Large druids can't use the oil?The size of the druid has nothing to do with it. A club is a one-handed simple melee weapon and the club is a two-handed martial melee weapon. Both can be sized for characters of any size. So they are in fact not very similar.

A large druid could wield a medium sized greatclub one-handed, but he would get a -2 to the attack roll. He could not wield a greatclub appropriate to his size (large) with one hand.

[Togath]

Oh...the falcion and scythe with brutal crits is tempting, but I just can't pass this up. Bludgeoning and Slashing means she can basically smash anything from a zombie to a lich with this one weapon. Plus for a "smash smash smash" brute, the hammer type weapon just seems to fit better.

Thank you for all the help people! (Seriously though all the best weapons are SRD? There isn't anything martial better in all the splats? Heh.)

Thanks again people. I'm going to enjoy this character if I ever get to play her (+18 on saves verse alcohol at level 3, I actually looked it up, she can drink a STONE GIANT under the table in a fair fight).

The mace also qaulifies for both the impact and keen enchantments, though I'm not 100% sure if they stack or not, as I'm away from the book with the impact enchantment in it atm

[ima donkey]

If you ever do get a spare feat you should look at the greathammer 1d12 19-20 ×4

[Kelb_Panthera]

I'd bet money, that the greathammer was errata'd to only crit on 20.

[*.*.*.*]

The mace also qaulifies for both the impact and keen enchantments, though I'm not 100% sure if they stack or not, as I'm away from the book with the impact enchantment in it atm

From the srd:
"This ability doubles the threat range of a weapon. Only piercing or slashing weapons can be keen. (If you roll this property randomly for an inappropriate weapon, reroll.) This benefit doesn’t stack with any other effect that expands the threat range of a weapon (such as the keen edge spell or the Improved Critical feat)."

[dextercorvia]

I'd bet money, that the greathammer was errata'd to only crit on 20.

Not the Greathammer in MMIV. Unfortunately, they don't give it a price. There is a Goliath Greathammer, but AFAIK there aren't any other items called just Greathammer, which is what it would take to override.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Not the Greathammer in MMIV. Unfortunately, they don't give it a price. There is a Goliath Greathammer, but AFAIK there aren't any other items called just Greathammer, which is what it would take to override.

Didn't know about that version. I don't have MMIV though I'd like to.

[Hiro Protagonest]

But the difference between a club and greatclub is that the latter can't be wielded one handed effectively. It's really just a Large club. Unless Large druids can't use the oil?

A club costs 0. A quarterstaff costs 0. A greatclub costs 5 GP. I doubt it's "just a Large club". Especially since an actual Large club would mean -2 on attack rolls. A greatclub is more like a tetsubo.

[Andezzar]

Club: A wooden club is so easy to find and fashion that it has no cost.


Greatclub: A greatclub is a two-handed version of a regular club. It is often studded with nails or spikes or ringed by bands of iron.

If those two are similar enough, what about a spear? It is simply a quarterstaff with a spike on one end.

At least to me the RAW is very clear, Shillelagh applies to two weapons, the club and the quarterstaff. If you want to allow more you can do that at your table.

[Gwendol]

A club costs 0. A quarterstaff costs 0. A greatclub costs 5 GP. I doubt it's "just a Large club". Especially since an actual Large club would mean -2 on attack rolls. A greatclub is more like a tetsubo.

I'm looking at the image of the greatclub in the PHB and it sure looks like a larger version of the simple club. With some spikes no less. Maybe they drive up the cost?

[Gwendol]

Meh, the spear could also be described as a dagger with a very long handle. It sure isn'ta staff.

[georgie_leech]

Meh, the spear could also be described as a dagger with a very long handle. It sure isn'ta staff.

Actually, fighting one on one (not in formation) with a spear is very much like fighting with a staff. The fact that stabbing with one end is more likely to draw blood doesn't do much to change how you guard, turn, parry, dodge, spin (ha!), thrust with it. Using a spear like a dagger would almost certainly be impossible.

[Rickshaw]

this may not exactly fit where you're wanting to go with this barbarian, but whenever I have a martial weilding character, Duom is always my first choice. Even if it only does 1d8 damage, it has x3 crit damage, and it looks basically just like a spear with extra pointy bits pointying backwards. best part is its got a 10" reach that threatens adjacent, meaning you can charge into a group of enemies, and if you cleave through everyone adjacent, you can start whacking everyone in the room. put the explosive echantment on it, and only activate it when you hit people 10' away, thus hitting everyone near them, and sparing yourself (since the explosion hits everyone adjacent.)

add any number of enlarge self cheese to top it off.

[Saintheart]

If you're going a charging build, then take whatever damn weapon you like ... so long as you fit a valorous weapon quality to it. Depending on how generous your DM is, it doesn't just increase the power attack damage from x2 to x3, it doubles the entire weapon's damage. Some DMs will interpret this as "roll your dice, add all your humungous Power Attack bonuses. Now double it."

[Endarire]

I like guisarmes. Reach.

[danzibr]

I'm looking for Dungeon (113) and can't find it. Is that a book with a page number? Or a magazine with an edition number?

[Dusk Eclipse]

Magazine, AFAIK Dungeon magazine was the Dm's counterpart to Dragon. It had some adventure modules and even whole campaings (the Executioner Hammer was stated in an issue that had part of the Age of Worms campaign, as it is Kyuss favoured weapon).

[danzibr]

Ah, hmm, thanks. I wonder why I've never heard of this.

[MrBanana]

For me, it's a greataxe or greatsword. The Guisarme and Falchion are good weapons, yes, but they don't deal good enough dice damage for me.

Now, a keen falchion is a different story.

[teaontoast]

Hugely late reply, I know, so it's completely irrelevant now, but I've been thinking and in terms of sheer damage output, the greatsword easily outshines every other melee weapon.

Here's the average damage scores of several popular two-handers (with crits factored in):

Guisarme: 5.5
Falchion: 5.65
Scythe: 5.65
Greatclub: 5.775
Greataxe: 7.15
Greatsword: 7.7

That said, if you have a guisarme and the improved trip feat, you essentially get two attacks for the price of one (extra attack as they fall plus AoO when they get up). This means that, if you succeed on three consecutive d20 rolls, you can actually deal an average of 11 damage, which is quite obviously superior.

What's even better, though, is that prone characters get a -4 penalty to AC against melee attacks. Thus, if you have power attack (and if you don't then, seriously, get it) you get a free +8 damage bonus for free! At your highest attack bonus! That means you get your average guisarme damage up to 19 with no attack penalties! This way you deal like three times as much damage as you would with a ****ty falchion for the cost of two feats. Which, let's face it, is a way better use for two feats than becoming 'inhumanly resistant to alcohol.'

[Rubik]

I'm partial to both the guisarme for the reach and the elvencraft longbow for being both a two-hander, TWF weapon, and longbow, all in one.

[MortalSword]

If you play Pathfinder:

Opalescent White Pyramid Ioun Stone gives you a proficiency with its keyed weapon. 10k Gold for a feat equivalent + slap it in a wayfinder for a free weapon focus if your GM allows resonant powers (first method) in Seekers of Secrets.

If you can get it crafted this is awesome. If you're buying magical gear it might take a while to find one with the weapon you want. If you're randomly rolling treasures give up all hope of that perfect exotic weapon being the keyed weapon.

[Dusk Eclipse]

If you have martial weapon proficiency from class levels the cracked version of the white pyramid is much better, 1.5 k for treating an exotic weapon as a martial? Sign me up... or it would be if there were decent exotic weapons, so far I haven't seen any great weapon, but at least it isn't such an investment if you really want an exotic weapon

[kalasulmar]

From the srd:
"This ability doubles the threat range of a weapon. Only piercing or slashing weapons can be keen. (If you roll this property randomly for an inappropriate weapon, reroll.) This benefit doesn’t stack with any other effect that expands the threat range of a weapon (such as the keen edge spell or the Improved Critical feat)."
Keen not stacking with Improved Critical has never made any sense. It is like masterwork not stacking with Weapon Focus.

[Dusk Eclipse]

It is a balancing mechanic more than anything, due the way doubling crit range works, allowing them to stack would make weapons that crit on everything but a 1 easy, which in turns mess with the inherent maths of the system.

[MortalSword]

It is a balancing mechanic more than anything, due the way doubling crit range works, allowing them to stack would make weapons that crit on everything but a 1 easy, which in turns mess with the inherent maths of the system.

Yes! It can get stupid if you add enough splat books. Disciple of Dispater + Serrated/Laminated weapon + Keen + Improved Crit = 9-20 Crit range iirc. Was essentially the core of the Lightning Mace/Roundabout kick with that weapon enhancement whose name escapes me atm that basically allowed you to treat weapons as other types and apply your feats to it.

Generate threat - generate extra attack - confirm threat - extra attack. Both extra attacks could generate more attacks which could generate more attacks etc. Pretty broken with a few power criticals tossed in. Confirm with a natural 2 pretty much.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Weapon Aptitude is the WSA you are thinking, form Tome of Battle.

[MortalSword]

Weapon Aptitude

Ahh yes! That's the one! My thanks! Was fun to play. I was limited by how many enemies were around me at the start of my turn lol.

[kalasulmar]

Being able to possess a sharp sword that you are also especially skilled with breaks the game. Got it. I will just play wizard.

[ZamielVanWeber]

Being able to possess a sharp sword that you are also especially skilled with breaks the game. Got it. I will just play wizard.

In 3.0 Crit Stacking was actually a bit problematic, mostly because it invalidated everything that was not "stack crit range and power attack." 3.5 has other issues with invalidation. Also, the class best equipped to abuse crit stacking is a wizard, who could take improved crit, a keen weapon, and have reliable access to keen edge.

[Roog]

If you play Pathfinder:

Opalescent White Pyramid Ioun Stone gives you a proficiency with its keyed weapon. 10k Gold for a feat equivalent + slap it in a wayfinder for a free weapon focus if your GM allows resonant powers (first method) in Seekers of Secrets.

Or pay only 2k gp for the cracked version.

[ben-zayb]

Speaking of smashing and slashing zombies with an executioner's mace, how about thread necromancy?

[Rubik]

Speaking of smashing and slashing zombies with an executioner's mace, how about thread necromancy?The whole idea behind "thread necromancy" is retarded. Why shouldn't I be able to respond to a comment left six months ago if I have something to say about it?

And it's not like cluttering up a forum with a hundred and fifty threads all about the same thing because some of them are older is any better. Just look at all the monk threads, and ToB threads, and Psionics is Borken threads out there. Sheesh.

[ben-zayb]

The whole idea behind "thread necromancy" is retarded. Why shouldn't I be able to respond to a comment left six months ago if I have something to say about it?

And it's not like cluttering up a forum with a hundred and fifty threads all about the same thing because some of them are older is any better. Just look at all the monk threads, and ToB threads, and Psionics is Borken threads out there. Sheesh.While I agree with your points, Necroing is still a violation, so I'm just making a note in case someone stumbles on this thread and doesn't want to risk getting an infraction.

Perhaps a discussion of making stickies for common enough topics can be made ona different thread?

[Dusk Eclipse]

Being able to possess a sharp sword that you are also especially skilled with breaks the game. Got it. I will just play wizard.

Hey don't shot the messenger, it is just the way things are, besides the main issue is that in most cases anything you give to fighters, a wizard can probably pick it up if he thinks so.


In 3.0 Crit Stacking was actually a bit problematic, mostly because it invalidated everything that was not "stack crit range and power attack." 3.5 has other issues with invalidation. Also, the class best equipped to abuse crit stacking is a wizard, who could take improved crit, a keen weapon, and have reliable access to keen edge.

Assuming every crit-range increaser stacks, I'd be more worried about dolorous blow than keen edge. Auto-crit confirmation is nasty even without a stupidly huge threat range.

[Windrammer]

I'm looking at the image of the greatclub in the PHB and it sure looks like a larger version of the simple club. With some spikes no less. Maybe they drive up the cost?

That's because the illustrations are terrible. Have you seen the rapier?

[Zombulian]

The whole idea behind "thread necromancy" is retarded. Why shouldn't I be able to respond to a comment left six months ago if I have something to say about it?

And it's not like cluttering up a forum with a hundred and fifty threads all about the same thing because some of them are older is any better. Just look at all the monk threads, and ToB threads, and Psionics is Borken threads out there. Sheesh.

wee woo wee woo PC POLICE you can't say that!!!1!

But in all seriousness I agree. I hate finding an old thread that was on its way to answering a question I have that just ended up petering out. Why can't I redirect attention to it if it's a good question and people have already given opinions on it?

[Tuvarkz]

PF-wise, I'd cast my vote on the Nodachi. 1d10 18-20/x2; with Brace and being able to deal either S or P damage, plus counts as both a heavy blade and a polearm. And it's a martial weapon.

[ComaVision]

The whole idea behind "thread necromancy" is retarded. Why shouldn't I be able to respond to a comment left six months ago if I have something to say about it?

And it's not like cluttering up a forum with a hundred and fifty threads all about the same thing because some of them are older is any better. Just look at all the monk threads, and ToB threads, and Psionics is Borken threads out there. Sheesh.


wee woo wee woo PC POLICE you can't say that!!!1!

But in all seriousness I agree. I hate finding an old thread that was on its way to answering a question I have that just ended up petering out. Why can't I redirect attention to it if it's a good question and people have already given opinions on it?

Also agreed. I don't see how making a new thread linking to an old thread is somehow better than just posting in an old thread.

[ZamielVanWeber]

Also agreed. I don't see how making a new thread linking to an old thread is somehow better than just posting in an old thread.

I believe that the thread necromancer rule may have less to do with clutter and more to do with server stability. I have seen servers crash because too many threads were necro'd in a short period of time.

[HolyDraconus]

Is fullblade off the table?

[Rubik]

Is fullblade off the table?Someone flipped the table already, so yes.

[Haruki-kun]

The Winged Mod: Thread closed for Necromancy.

Guys, please do not use an unrelated thread to discuss whether or not Thread Necromancy should be a rule. It's completely off-topic. If you have any questions or suggestions direct them at the Forum Staff or post in Board Issues.