The Legend of Zelda: Thread of Awesome

[TheWombatOfDoom]

The Legend of Zelda: Thread of Awesome

So, the only other thread I could find was the skyward sword thread, and I couldn't post on that without commiting thread necromacy. Either way, I'm a big fan of all the games, and pretty well versed in the lore around the series.

This thread is for theories, questions, comments or activities that are Zelda related. I can answer a lot of things, but I'm sure many other can and will put in their two cents too!

So if you like the music, the art, the game style, the puzzle solving, the plot or the characters - You're in the right place! Make sure to write in spoilers for things like plot in skyward sword, and possibly the other games. Despite what you may think, some people haven't played all the games, so be considerate!

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All Threads Zelda

Let's Plays:
LaZodiac plays Skyward Sword (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?401381-Zodi-Plays-The-Legend-of-Zelda-Skyward-Sword)
Majora's Mask Point Race (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?419906-Legend-of-Zelda-Majora-s-Mask-Point-Race&p=19364635#post19364635)

Homebrews:
Zelda D20 - Homebrew (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?368875-D-amp-D-5e-Zelda-D20-Homebrew&p=18010043#post18010043)
3.5 Edition - Legend of Zelda Classes, based on the different incarnations of Link (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?254175-Heroes-of-Hyrule-Zeldaverse-in-D-amp-D-3-5-(PEACH))
5th Edition - Legend of Zelda Races (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?369242-Legend-of-Zelda-Races-(Critique-welcome-WIP-))


Polls:

While I appreciate what you top 2 or 3 favorites are, I'll only count the first one. So please distinguish which is your top game. Otherwise its left to me to judge which, and that's not really something I'd like to do much of!

Previous Polls:
Favorite Zelda Game Winner: A Link to the Past


Current Poll:
Favorite Dungeon!

[TheWombatOfDoom]

And to start things off, I just saw the Legend of Zelda: Symphony of the Godesses and I have to say - It was FLIPPING AMAZING. If you get the chance to see it on it's tour of the country, DO SO. You won't regret it.

For those of you who don't know what this is: http://zelda-symphony.com/

Yeah.

[Landis963]

How different is it from the 25th anniversary cd that came with skyward sword?

Oh, and subbed.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

How different is it from the 25th anniversary cd that came with skyward sword?

Oh, and subbed.

Almost NONE of it was in the CD. All new complilations themed from different games. And stick around for some encores at the end for some REAL treats. And they had a big screen up with imagry and gameplay from each game in time with the music. Very well done.

[Landis963]

Oh, nice! :smallbiggrin: Any specific highlights?

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Oh, nice! :smallbiggrin: Any specific highlights?

First they did an introduction medley composed of all the themese, then they did one on kakariko village, then a medley of many of the ocarina tunes.

Then set 1 was Ocarina of time, 2 was Wind Waker, Intermission, 3 was Twilight princess, and finally 4 was a link to the past.

I shall not give away the encores!

[Landis963]

Did the introductory medley involve the Spirit Tracks theme, Dragon Roost Island, and the Dark World theme? Was one of the encores the Fairy theme, and was Gerudo Valley its own encore or part of the OoT medley?

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Did the introductory medley involve the Spirit Tracks theme, Dragon Roost Island, and the Dark World theme? Was one of the encores the Fairy theme, and was Gerudo Valley its own encore or part of the OoT medley?

Gerudo was it's own (one of the encores), Dragon roost was in wind waker at points (medley), darkworld in twight with midna's theme and some other things, Spirit tracks really wasn't in it that much, if at all. If it was it was in the opening medley. The fairy theme came in to introduce the second half before the second 2 sets.

[MLai]

In the original NES game manual, you know those prologue illustrations that look like they're screenshots from an anime rather than just normal illustrations? Are they from an actual Japanese anime, maybe an obscure one? I've always wanted to watch that.

The reason they look like screenshots is because the background is painted, but the characters are cel-shaded. Like how cartoon/anime cels are.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

In the original NES game manual, you know those prologue illustrations that look like they're screenshots from an anime rather than just normal illustrations? Are they from an actual Japanese anime, maybe an obscure one? I've always wanted to watch that.

The reason they look like screenshots is because the background is painted, but the characters are cel-shaded. Like how cartoon/anime cels are.

They are not from an anime, just artwork for the game. The only animated series was the one on the mario brothers tv show, which had 13 episodes to it and was generally un-canon.


"Links"

Thanks for the links! I may make a "link" (har har) list on the OP for all thing Zelda. Can't right now, but in the future!

[INoKnowNames]

I've been meaning to make a Zelda Thread...

I'm curious about the whole "Time Line" thing.

Particularly because one of the time lines apparently involve Ganon winning... wouldn't that be a non-canon section of the time line, then (http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/9/2011/12/29631a766f1537530abc0ec5e6d15515.jpg)?

[Landis963]

I've been meaning to make a Zelda Thread...

I'm curious about the whole "Time Line" thing.

Particularly because one of the time lines apparently involve Ganon winning... wouldn't that be a non-canon section of the time line, then (http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/9/2011/12/29631a766f1537530abc0ec5e6d15515.jpg)?

I still think that section should have been split off from the bad ending of Majora's Mask. Because Termina canonically dies exactly once, during the cycle that you're stuck as the Deku scrub, and LttP resembles Twilight Princess in enough respects that it could easily be TP without the guidance of the Hero's Shade. But alas, my headcanon-fu is no match for their Word of God karate.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

I've been meaning to make a Zelda Thread...

I'm curious about the whole "Time Line" thing.

Particularly because one of the time lines apparently involve Ganon winning... wouldn't that be a non-canon section of the time line, then (http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/9/2011/12/29631a766f1537530abc0ec5e6d15515.jpg)?

Nintendo officially released a game time line in the winter, and honestly...I was less than happy with it. I was cool with two timelines...(kinda)...but three? :smallannoyed:

I would have preffered it if it was all one continuous line, but instead it splits at ocarina. And one of the main reasons I disagree with it is Link didn't lose in ocarina. Alas, link must have defeated Ganondorf too many times for them to accept all of them as continuitous. It's still canon...just for the fact that if you died at ALL in ocarina of time, the hero defeated time would happen. But I see where you're going with that...and I'm with you. But I don't call the shots.

I personally would have liked the explination of hyrule looking so different in some games was because the flood in Wind Waker and then eventual receed of the waters reformed the world. Ah well. Still love the games.

[Landis963]

I personally would have liked the explination of hyrule looking so different in some games was because the flood in Wind Waker and then eventual receed of the waters reformed the world. Ah well. Still love the games.

Sadly, I don't think that would have worked, if only because the point of Daphnes' wish at the end of Wind Waker was to completely destroy the old Hyrule; that of Ocarina, minish cap, etc., so that the youngr generation could be free of the past. Spirit Tracks' "Hyrule" is explicitly a new continent, and a major NPC mentions meeting Tetra. I think the current handwave is a combo of artistic license and natural forces over several thousand years.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Sadly, I don't think that would have worked, if only because the point of Daphnes' wish at the end of Wind Waker was to completely destroy the old Hyrule; that of Ocarina, minish cap, etc., so that the youngr generation could be free of the past. Spirit Tracks' "Hyrule" is explicitly a new continent, and a major NPC mentions meeting Tetra. I think the current handwave is a combo of artistic license and natural forces over several thousand years.

Ah yes, but they created a New Hyrule...which could eventually become similar to the old one. Haha. but yes, your point is made. I'm pretty pissed at Daphnes for doing that, either way. Though since there's two other timelines, I guess it's ok. Now they have a timeline without Hyrule or Ganondorf, a timeline that's in Hyrule and the potential for all the reincarnations to continue, and the defeated timeline, where the latest link has become "the last hero". Not to mention you could put a game anywhere in between the current ones, or pre-ocarina (or even skyward).

[Landis963]

They did say they were going to try and mix it up a big in future, so both the WW and TP timelines are technically open. Pre-skyward doesn't sound too likely, as it would have to eschew both the Master Sword(not forged until SS, although the Goddess Sword might take its place) and, technically, the Zelda figure (she didn't exist then, not in the capacity she took on in SS). However, the spaces between MC and SS, or MC and OoT, can all provide an opportunity to decon-recon another part of the Zelda mythos.

("decon-recon" here meaning "exploit the basic tropes for story fodder", a good example being Zelda's plot in SS)

[TheWombatOfDoom]

I'd be interested in a big story arc. Something that better made a connection between things.

So- what's everyone's favorite Zelda game...and why?

[Sipex]

With the arrival of Skyward Sword, I'm putting it as my favourite. It was everything I wanted it to be, even if not everyone else agrees.

A Link to the Past is a close second.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

I think I'll make a tally at the top! Just for the sake of being pointless! I'll reserve my favorite for later though. >:D

[Landis963]

I've only personally played SS and TP, so put those as first and second, respectively. However, I've seen LPs of many others, inc. Majora's Mask, both Oracle games, and Wind Waker.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

I've only personally played SS and TP, so put those as first and second, respectively. However, I've seen LPs of many others, inc. Majora's Mask, both Oracle games, and Wind Waker.

[!!] What game systems do you have?

[Landis963]

[!!] What game systems do you have?

Only the Wii, which is a quick answer for why I've only personally played those two.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Only the Wii, which is a quick answer for why I've only personally played those two.

You can buy many of the others pretty cheap on the wii store.

[KillianHawkeye]

Well I don't have a Wii, so I haven't played Skyward Sword yet. Nor have I played Spirit Tracks or Four Swords, since I don't have any of the recent Gameboy decendants. I have, however, played pretty much every other official Zelda title.

For a favorite, I'd have to say A Link to the Past for it's great music and story, good level design, cool tools and weapons (hookshot, yo!), and awesome boss fights. Although Twilight Princess (Gamecube version) definitely comes as an extremely close second. The story was pretty good, the puzzles and level design were both excellent, and the fluidity of the combat mechanics was just freakin' amazing!

[Landis963]

You can buy many of the others pretty cheap on the wii store.

...Nor do I have a Classic Controller, which is the slightly longer answer.

[LoneStarNorth]

Skyward Sword was awesome, but I felt like it was one dungeon too short. That puts it at my third favourite Zelda game of all time.

Coming in at second was Twilight Princess. Everything about it was great, IMO. No complaints.

In first place we have Majora's Mask. Yeah, I'm one of THOSE people. The atmosphere of that game was fantastic and exactly my favourite kind of story. And out of all the various modes of faster-than-walking travel that have appeared in Zelda games over the years, rolling around as a goron was my favourite. Let's face it, Link was rolling everywhere he went ANYway...

And speaking of Majora's Mask, did anybody else see this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyazYYev7Nw) back when it was news and WEEP to learn that it wasn't a real thing?

[Sith_Happens]

I've played all of Twilight Princess and Phantom Hourglass, partway through Ocarina of Time and Wind Waker, and seen about half total of Skyward Sword, most of Ocarina of Time, a little bit of Majora's Mask, and a few bits of Wind Waker past where I played up to.

Based on that exposure, I'm definitely going to have to say Twilight Princess. It has a great aesthetic, the only story out of those six that doesn't feel like it's just there to shuttle you from one dungeon to the next*, by far the best guide/companion, and the wolf segments were awesome and changed things up just enough (in fact, my one complaint about the game is that there's hardly ever a reason to actually use the wolf form after you gain the ability to transform freely). The controls and combat are the best out of the games I've actually played, but I have a feeling that will change once I get around to actually playing Skyward Sword.


*While I'd rate Skyward Sword's story about as good as Twilight Princess's overall (maybe a little bit better), it still manages to have that same feeling of "Okay, here's something that actually happens, now go complete the next dungeon or three." Not to mention that it's probably the one game in the series with an honest to goodness Link/Zelda relationship and they STILL DON'T GO ANYWHERE WITH IT.:furious::furious::furious:

[Logic]

My personal favorite is Majora's Mask. I have not completed Skyward Sword or Twilight Princess yet, but both of those have hte chance to knock my number one off the top spot.

Coming in at second place is Wind Waker. I really loved this game. It was only my third ever Zelda game (Ocarina being my first, Majora my second.)

And third place for me is A Link to the Past, even though I have yet to finish it. (When I played it last, I was kinda stuck, and haven't picked it up again.)

[Krazzman]

Hmmm that's a hard one.

First off: I only got to beat Minish Cap, Oracle of Ages and...that's it.
I had a Game Boy SP and we (or better said my GF has) have a Wii but since she doesn't like Zelda and I have too many things to do atm I can't spend the money on TP, SS or the other remakes for the GC (I had one in Platinum).

I played Wind Waker but it was such a sucky experience for me... Ganondorf too strong, can't farm rupees cause if you do the time runs out... I suddenly had no fun playing it anymore... I have to say the grafics weren't that good but at least how you played was cool, with special tricks for special enemies and so on and then grabbing that uber two-hander from them and smashing everyone with it. The minigames were sucky... the bombin on the boat, the arrow shooting on the boat etc.

Four Swords (the A Link to the Past remake) was good but as I couldn't beat the game on my super nintendo i couldn't finish that one... the problem i had with that game was that the last dungeons are just too big. I think I did the tower in the north, that underwater thing and the one in the desert... but just couldn't get the motivation to finish it.

Oracle of Seasons (my copy of it vanished, another reason i couldn't finish it...) I had problems getting into the last dungeon. Even with help from the interwebs. Seemed like a good game though.

The one for gameboy where you have to collect those instruments... never finished the third dungeon I think.

Minish Cap finished 2 times and I have to say it's going to be my favourite together with Oracle of Ages (finished 3 times). Minish Cap because I liked how you kill the BBEG and how your hat talks to you and shrinks you and suddenly a bug is a serious Boss. Oracle of ages is going to be my favourite because of what you can do, switching between present, past and future to overcome obstacles. Loosing all your stuff, fighting to get it back and so on with a really mean last boss at the top of that dark tower that is filled with super strong and mean enemies and then the boss kills you... with ease.

Twilight Princess: It looked cool but I just got into the castle, don't know hot it is.
Ocarina of Time didn't work because my TV was too bad and on the one of a buddy of me it was all in black and white. Because of the Hz...

Yeah, I stay with OoA and MC as my favourite two.

[Eakin]

The best Zelda game of the last 10 years was Okami. Yes, it had flaws, but the slavish devotion to the Zelda formula ain't doing Nintendo any favors either. Okami, Wind Waker, and Ltt P are my top three Zeldas, OoT hasn't aged all that well compared to those three. The Oracle of Ages/Seasons were enjoyable too, but I'd still rather go back to Links Awakening for portable entries. I will admit that I haven't played Skyward Sword yet, but this particular series has stagnated badly, and is just begging for a complete reinvention which Nintendo doesn't have the balls to try.

[Landis963]

And speaking of Majora's Mask, did anybody else see this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyazYYev7Nw) back when it was news and WEEP to learn that it wasn't a real thing?

For a second, I thought it was that Majora's Mask opera that was news a while back. I'd have mixed feelings about it were it real. For one; great that MM is getting a graphical update. However, I feel it misses the point of the Happy Mask Salesman to have him emote onscreen.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

I had not seen that video! That looked pretty darn cool, but it looked more like a sequel to Majora's Mask, since the whole area looked worn down and abandoned.

As for people's entries for the game that is their favorite -
While I appreciate what you top 2 or 3 games are, I'll only count one of these. So please distinguish which is your top game. Otherwise its left to me to judge which, and that's not really something I'd like to do much of!

I'm actually fairly surprised how the votes are spread right now. I was expecting more toward Ocarina of Time, since that in my experience is generally a favorite among many...maybe because the age grew is a little lower then who I'm used to talking to. Not that there's anything wrong with that! I just find it interesting.

[Alton_Utrich]

I'm not sure which game i'd call my favorite, but three do stand out for separate reasons.

The best playing experience I had with a Zelda game is Wind Waker. It was the first console Zelda I had a chance to play through with no spoilers, I already knew about Ocarina of Time and Majoras Mask from playing the save files of friends. While Wind Waker did have its flaws, it sucked me right into the story and its ending was mind-bendingly awesome to me.

I think the best game overall is Ocarina of Time. While I didn't get to enjoy it as a blank slate, its characters are still my favorite and it has great replay value. I've gone back to play it over and over again and I love it each time.

My favorite game to just pick up and play, however, is Majoras Mask. I adore the three-day system and the games atmosphere is just perfect. The three-day system also means you can do anything no matter what you've already done, so your favorite quest is only a song of time away.

While I loved Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword, they don't seem to have the same value to me as the previous three. I've beaten both of them, but i've never gone back to play them as obsessively as I have others. Although I think that's more a reflection on me getting older than a reflection on the games themselves. If pressed, I'd call Majoras Mask the best game in the series, for the three-day mechanic and the depth and atmosphere of Terminia

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Alright! So far we've got Majora in first, Link to the Past in second, and Twilight Princess bringing up the rear!

I might as well throw mine in the lot: I'm an Ocarina of Time fan. Honestly, it might partially be nostolgia of my younger years, but I feel it has the most complete story line that the rest of the timeline bases itself off of. It has the most dungeons (sporting a whole 9 whoppers), plus extra mini dungeons such as the ice caverns and ice arrow areas. The mini quests are broad and while I like the collectibles in other games, the golden skullatas are by far my favorite (though the masks from majora give them a run for their money...perhaps surpassing). Sure the graphics aren't wonderful, and there have been some really awesome dungeons in some other games, (like the wind temple in twilight or the ice temple there) but ocarina made us understand a lot of those games. Like who the zora and the gorons were, and so on.

Majora was excellent as well, if weird, but I loved the mask theme. As I said, I loved that each collectible mask was a mission, and that you could turn into the different races. I felt I wanted more than 4 dungeons, however. And the stone tower both made me furious and happy. I hated having to play the statue song allllll the time. Lol. The 3 days theme and each person doing the exact thing each day was really excellent. I loved watching a person walk through a specific times. The bomber notebook was probably my favorite task monitoring system for a zelda game.

I love all the zelda games in some way, Link to the Past was GREAT, but Ocarina of Time just does everything the way I wanted it to.

[INoKnowNames]

Of of the top of my head, there were a lot of Zelda Games I never beat because I was too young to have the brain power to figure them out entirely... I need to go back and play so many games now....

I remember beating Ocarina of Time, Wind Waker, Twilight Princess, a Link to the Past, Spirit Tracks, Phantom Hourglass, Link's Awakening, Oracle Series (though I never did beat Ganon, since Ages has sucky items or I fail too bad to get the good ones), Minish Cap... and that's it. I never actually played Majora's Mask, now that I think about it.

Of the ones I have cleared... I kinda liked Wind Waker the most. A campaign spoof of that would be fun... Sailing was cool, too, actually.

[Landis963]

Regarding Majora: is it in fact possible to get everything done in the cycle after you get the Deku mask? The world-record speed run required three cycles to get everything before he faced Majora, including the deku cycle, but I'm wondering if it wouldn't be possible to shave off that last cycle.

[Logic]

Regarding Majora: is it in fact possible to get everything done in the cycle after you get the Deku mask? The world-record speed run required three cycles to get everything before he faced Majora, including the deku cycle, but I'm wondering if it wouldn't be possible to shave off that last cycle.

I don't see how that is possible. That means he would have to beat the first two dungeons on the first cycle as a Kid link, waste pretty much all night of the first day of the third cycle at the Ranch doing the ghost aliens quest. That leaves two full days to beat the other two dungeons, do the Kafie quest, etc. If the speed run is just to get to the boss, ok, MAYBE, but I still say highly unlikely.

[Landis963]

I don't see how that is possible. That means he would have to beat the first two dungeons on the first cycle as a Kid link, waste pretty much all night of the first day of the third cycle at the Ranch doing the ghost aliens quest. That leaves two full days to beat the other two dungeons, do the Kafie quest, etc. If the speed run is just to get to the boss, ok, MAYBE, but I still say highly unlikely.

Getting everything first time? Or getting everything in three cycles (or rather, two+ deku cycle)? Because here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-TgXz2A79Y) is (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeMcq-JoBDo) the (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0HsLkG90ys) speed (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHZ0ZM_QO9A)run (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYNXvWhwOno) in question. (He ends "cycle 2" during the 4th video, and uses most of that day getting the remaining heart pieces and beating the bosses). 100% completion, clocking in at 6:06:26, with room for improvement according to him (Among other things, he complains about the inconsistency of his "gainers", i.e. his glitching above walls with jumps, in Deku form, and in some places where he didn't pull off certain bomb glitches correctly). And I'm willing to allow some fudging where your actions don't improve anything (Gilded Sword sidequest comes to mind, as does that thing with the four green Gossip Stones, and the shooting galleries/Clock Town minigames) or where you don't get closer to completing everything (that scene with Cremia and her little sister whose name escapes me is one of the ones to skip, as I don't believe you get anything from it besides sand in your eyes). I'm not saying it wouldn't require a flawless strategy and a flawless execution of that strategy, but could it possibly be done?

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Getting everything first time? Or getting everything in three cycles (or rather, two+ deku cycle)? Because here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-TgXz2A79Y) is (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeMcq-JoBDo) the (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0HsLkG90ys) speed (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHZ0ZM_QO9A)run (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYNXvWhwOno) in question. (He ends "cycle 2" during the 4th video, and uses most of that day getting the remaining heart pieces and beating the bosses). 100% completion, clocking in at 6:06:26, with room for improvement according to him (Among other things, he complains about the inconsistency of his "gainers", i.e. his glitching above walls with jumps, in Deku form, and in some places where he didn't pull off certain bomb glitches correctly). And I'm willing to allow some fudging where your actions don't improve anything (Gilded Sword sidequest comes to mind, as does that thing with the four green Gossip Stones, and the shooting galleries/Clock Town minigames) or where you don't get closer to completing everything (that scene with Cremia and her little sister whose name escapes me is one of the ones to skip, as I don't believe you get anything from it besides sand in your eyes). I'm not saying it wouldn't require a flawless strategy and a flawless execution of that strategy, but could it possibly be done?

That is a highly impressive run! I'm not sure if someone could do it in 2 days. There's just too many things to get. Ugh, I'd hate to mess something up on Kafie's quest and ruin the speed run. T.T

[Zevox]

Favorite games? That's easy enough.

I put Ocarina of Time and Skyward Sword on top. I'm honestly not sure which I'd say is better than the other. Both feature the best "epic adventure" feel and story of the series I'd say, as well as the most memorable dungeons and bosses. That Nintendo pulled off the motion controls of SS so well particularly impressed me.

Twilight Princess is just behind them. It has the best story I think, the best character (Midna), and by and large similarly quality gameplay to the above. It would be up there with them, except for being far too easy. Even the late-game bosses felt like early-game bosses, and once you had a fair number of hearts you never really end up in any danger.

After those, I rank them:
Phantom Hourglass
Wind Waker
Majora's Mask
Spirit Tracks
2D Zelda games

I've never really felt there was much different in quality between the 2D Zelda titles I've played (which is all of them except the first two). They're good, but not great. Oracle of Ages is the only one that stands out to me, because I like the time-travel aspect of it. On the whole, I think the series immensely benefited from the switch to 3D - which makes me very confused when I see people saying they think A Link to the Past is the best in the series, since it didn't stand out to me at all when I played it, in stark contrast to every 3D Zelda title.

Zevox

[Madara]

Well, Twilight princess was really great, but there was too much Midna for me :smallsigh:

Skyward Sword is absolutely wonderful. And Majora's Mask brings me back again and again.

But I just have to go with OOT. It holds that center of the Zelda world to me. The characters were well crafted, and even wandering felt great. Plus he's the coolest hero, I would want that title more than any other link.

Hero of Time

It just sounds amazing, truly the Link that becomes the Legend.

Wind Waker was also really fun, and had a lot of gameplay to enjoy and some really good dungeons.

Four Swords has my favorite item, the Fire Rod(I want it to reappear in one of the games, that'd be awesome)

[Landis963]

Favorite games? That's easy enough.

I put Ocarina of Time and Skyward Sword on top. I'm honestly not sure which I'd say is better than the other. Both feature the best "epic adventure" feel and story of the series I'd say, as well as the most memorable dungeons and bosses. That Nintendo pulled off the motion controls of SS so well particularly impressed me.

Skyward Sword did feel much more like an epic adventure, and a dash of whatever created Ancient Cistern goes well in any Zelda. (Thinking back, that was the same screwy, creative thinking that led to the wonderful City in the Sky, although without the symbolism to tie it together like in the Ancient Cistern)


Twilight Princess is just behind them. It has the best story I think, the best character (Midna), and by and large similarly quality gameplay to the above. It would be up there with them, except for being far too easy. Even the late-game bosses felt like early-game bosses, and once you had a fair number of hearts you never really end up in any danger.

I'm not certain Twilight Princess had the best story; it certainly had fewer plot holes than Skyward (Only one I can think of in TP is "why kidnap Ilia and the kids in the first place?" as opposed to SS' "Why did Impa dissolve at the end? What happened to the Imprisoned juice smushed under the Sky Keep if Link killed Demise all those years in the past? Why is the sky always clear if the layer between the ground and Skyloft is impenetrable?") but it had a bad case of "Midna leading you around by the nose." Speaking of which, certainly Midna started out more engaging than Fi, and both sets of character development were well-thought out and communicated (I wouldn't go so far as to say she's the "best" character, far too many candidates for that ever to be resolved to anyone's satisfaction). Agreed totally on TP's bosses, but I would argue that they served quite well as "training wheels" for the incoming Zelda fan such as yours truly. (Fyrus and Zant in particular, while easy, were the "make you feel bada**" kind of easy, while the fish in Lakebed Temple and Blizzeta were the "yawn-a-rama" kind of easy. Only the final boss rush, IMO, toed the line of "difficult", and even then more because of length than any real difficulty)


After those, I rank them:
Phantom Hourglass
Wind Waker
Majora's Mask
Spirit Tracks
2D Zelda games

:smallconfused: Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks are technically 2D... You're probably making an exception for those. :smallsmile: Eh, it's your opinion.


I've never really felt there was much different in quality between the 2D Zelda titles I've played (which is all of them except the first two). They're good, but not great. Oracle of Ages is the only one that stands out to me, because I like the time-travel aspect of it. On the whole, I think the series immensely benefited from the switch to 3D - which makes me very confused when I see people saying they think A Link to the Past is the best in the series, since it didn't stand out to me at all when I played it, in stark contrast to every 3D Zelda title.

Zevox

The thing about LttP, I think, is that so much of it directly leads into Ocarina, and later into Twilight Princess, in terms of design decisions, and that a lot of it is exactly what Nintendo is referring to when they refer to the "Zelda formula". Teleporting to locations via wind instrument, Zelda as kidnapped cosmic keystone, Ganondorf as the man behind the man, dual-world gameplay, the list goes on and on. People see it as "the one that started it all", when they don't refer to Ocarina that way, and even then LttP is the "one that started the one that started it all". I prefer Ages as well (for many reasons, including that more effort seemed to go into the writing between Veran's extra screentime and Ralph's character arc), but I will admit that Seasons had much more to work with in terms of puzzle pieces (four world gameplay in the four seasons as opposed to Ages' Past and Present dual-world gameplay).

[Zevox]

but it had a bad case of "Midna leading you around by the nose."
I am not bothered by that in the least.


:smallconfused: Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks are technically 2D... You're probably making an exception for those. :smallsmile: Eh, it's your opinion.
At times they are, yes. At other times, such as when driving the boat/train, or during at least some boss fights (been a while since I played them, but I recall at least a couple of Phantom Hourglass'), they're definitely 3D.

Zevox

[Sith_Happens]

Well, Twilight princess was really great, but there was too much Midna for me :smallsigh:

BLASPHEMY! There's no such thing as too much Midna.:smalltongue:

As for Twilight Princess's difficulty, I'll just say this: Back Slice is way overpowered.

[Woot Spitum]

As much as I love the 3D Zelda games, A Link to the Past is the one I keep going back to play. For some reason it never really gets old to me.

[Knaight]

I'm currently playing through Windwaker, and would be inclined to vote it for favorite, were it not for the excessive length of the sailing parts. There is a lot to love about it, particularly the temporary weapon acquisition mechanic (though I have my objections regarding the way the spear handles in play), the art style, and some of the dungeons and boss fights, but it just doesn't quite lead the pack.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

I'm currently playing through Windwaker, and would be inclined to vote it for favorite, were it not for the excessive length of the sailing parts. There is a lot to love about it, particularly the temporary weapon acquisition mechanic (though I have my objections regarding the way the spear handles in play), the art style, and some of the dungeons and boss fights, but it just doesn't quite lead the pack.

So what DOES lead the pack?

[Janus]

Ocarina of Time remains my favorite. A Link to the Past and Link's Awakening are both great (and LA holds special place for being the first Zelda I really sat down and played), but OoT was the game that made me fall in love with the series, and I'm sad that I haven't played a better Zelda game since.

When it comes to the overall atmosphere and world of the series, I prefer the NES games, including things introduced in the cartoons (yes, I like them) and Valiant's comics. For me, they're a great example of a medieval world with fantasy elements (as opposed to the other way around).

My problem with Zelda games recently is that Nintendo seems to cram too many features into one game, leaving no room to develop any of them. The biggest offenders of this off the top of my head are horseback fighting (TP) and flight (SS).
SS... really kind of pisses me off because I felt like it had so much potential, but Nintendo just couldn't seem to commit. We're given a lot more choices in dialogue, but they have no effect on anything. Peatrice's subplot seems to change things up, but even if you make Link declare love for her, it doesn't change a blasted thing in the game's ending.
Ghirahim came across as a really weak villain. Sure, he's unique, and he gives graphic descriptions of how he plans on killing you, but the man is all talk. The only success he has in the game is kidnapping Zelda. But he never wins a fight against Link, even when Link's at his weakest. Even Zant managed to beat him.

Oh, and.... Majora's Mask is probably my least favorite Zelda game. The game gave us Tingle, aliens, Link doing a really weird dance, and it butchered the Ballad of the Wind Fish. :smallfurious:

[Knaight]

So what DOES lead the pack?

It's currently a five way tie between all of the 3d non-portable games. A five way tie that any of them could have broken, were it not for the various flaws in each.

[Sith_Happens]

It's currently a five way tie between all of the 3d non-portable games. A five way tie that any of them could have broken, were it not for the various flaws in each.

Well then obviously the only way to break this tie is via a battle royalé between all five 3D console Links. Which Twilight Princess wins because Great Spin and Back Slice.:smalltongue: Seriously, I ended up just Back Slicing Ganandorf to death. It was total hax.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Well then obviously the only way to break this tie is via a battle royalé between all five 3D console Links. Which Twilight Princess wins because Great Spin and Back Slice.:smalltongue:

Super Smash Bros Link would win. Brawl move. Bam. Cause, you know, that's totally an in canon game and all.

[Knaight]

Well then obviously the only way to break this tie is via a battle royalé between all five 3D console Links. Which Twilight Princess wins because Great Spin and Back Slice.:smalltongue: Seriously, I ended up just Back Slicing Ganandorf to death. It was total hax.

As nice as Back Slice is, Helm Splitter outclasses it, and the two really shine used in concert. Which, as it happens, the Wind Waker Link can also do, while rivaling the Great Spin with a normal spin while wielding a spear. Though he does lack Mortal Blow, which is just glorious.

[Sith_Happens]

As nice as Back Slice is, Helm Splitter outclasses it, and the two really shine used in concert. Which, as it happens, the Wind Waker Link can also do, while rivaling the Great Spin with a normal spin while wielding a spear. Though he does lack Mortal Blow, which is just glorious.

Helm Splitter's definitely nice too, unfortunately about halfway through the game I stopped being able to get Shield Bash to reliably execute for some reason.:smallannoyed:

On the Wind Waker side, you forgot about Hurricane Spin. And that's terrible.:smalltongue:

[Drascin]

Favorite... probably Wind Waker. It's got an incredibly pleasing artstyle and character design, I really enjoy the sailing (great overworld music does help), and it has some rather creative spins on Zelda classics that I enjoy mixed with all the dungeoneering goodies of the franchise.

After that, it's a huge tie. A Link to the Past, Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, and Skyward Sword which I played just recently, are all extremely awesome in my eyes, for different reasons, and I couldn't pick which of them I like the most. Link to the Past and its awesome dungeon design (I still can see several of the Dark World temples in my mind when I close my eyes)? Majora's Mask and its best sidequests EVER (masks, and dancing, and Anju and Kafei, and creepy aliens, and...!)? Skyward Sword and its inventiveness and characterization (damn but does the relationship between Zelda and Link work. I'm no shipper, but I was thinking "just kiss already, you pair of dolts" with a fair frequency in several segments)? You can't make me choose!

Least favorite of the ones I've played, probably would be Twilight Princess. Which is sad, because Midna is probably among the best characters in the franchise, and I definitely grew to really care for her (last battle with Ganon in that game? Shortest boss ever. Genuinely wanted to crush the mother******) but the dungeons left me rather cold, as did most of the game.

[Knaight]

Helm Splitter's definitely nice too, unfortunately about halfway through the game I stopped being able to get Shield Bash to reliably execute for some reason.:smallannoyed:

I played the gamecube version of TP, where shield bashing is extremely easy. That is probably why I favor Helm Splitter. Really though, TP human combat was beautiful in general, and the horseback combat wasn't bad; it's just a shame about the whole werewolf mechanic.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

So, I've been trying to race a person in Ocarina of Time for forever. This is where you set up 2 tvs, two versions of the game (be it on the wii, n46, gamecube in some combination or doubled) and play them side by side. Pause at the same time for breaks, end at a designated time each play day. First one to kill Ganon wins. No glitches. No full completion. Just who can beat the game before the other.

I've tried it with a few people. Once I had my horse as an adult as the other was just starting lord jabu jabu, the rival usually quit. This disappoints me. I want to find someone who won't quit, or will give me a run for my money. Sigh. Stupid people not being as nerdy as me.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

My top three favorite Zeldas:

1) Link to the Past. Amazing sprite-based graphics and multi-layered backgrounds. Even compared to modern-day graphics, it's still eye-candy. The gameplay was smooth and intuitive. The tools available were varied, and each had a use. It really blew the two NES offerings out of the water.

2) Windwaker. People dis the cell-shaded graphics. I don't. I like the cartoony feel. I also approve of having items which serve multiple functions (Grappling Hook acted as a way to move around before getting the Hookshot, and is NOT outdated because they are used to attach to different things, AND because it is used as the crane you use to dredge treasure up from the ocean depths). And I loved the plotline. Yea, Link didn't come back to save Hyrule. So it got buried.

3) Twilight Princess. I played this for the Game Cube, since I'm not a fan of the Wii. The graphics are outstanding. The tool use intuitive. I loved being able to combine, for example, my bow and the Hawkeye for a sniper-scope. Makes me feel a lot like... well... Hawkeye. Particularly in the encampment in the desert, and the Wild Western showdown towards the end, that came in real handy. Loading up bombs into arrows added a whole new dimension of interaction with your environment (although it made the spider-bombs pointless). Plus... dual-clawshots... "Spider-link. Spider-link. Does whatever a spider-link does". Also, one of the only Zelda offerings in which Link does *NOT* actually use Magic. The only item that could, remotely, be seen as 'magic', is the Control Rod. He beats Gannon. Without needing to rely on magic. Because he's just. that. good. Awww yea. Plus, the weapon maneuvers you can learn on the way makes combat less of 'press A repeatedly until they fall over' grind. If there was ever a Movie-version of Legend of Zelda... I'd want it to be this.

OoT... didn't sit well with me. Now, remember, when it came out, we were used to seeing Link from a top-down perspective, and a good chunk of the surrounding terrain. OoT... well, my first impression was "You got your FPS in my RPG!". I eventually got used to it, but I could never really get into it.

Majora's Mask... felt like "Oh, we didn't make enough on OoT... let's make a whole NEW thingamabober to stick on your N64, then crank out another Zelda game that requires it. It's like the last one, only more redundant!". One big money-grab. The plotline was... convoluted. It was like Groundhog Day... only even less so. The controls controls and usage were not intuitive. A vague horror genre music score is not going to fix all that.

The original Legend of Zelda... I'd probably place in a solid 4th. I mean, for nostalga if for no other reason. I spent waaay too many hours with that golden cartridge (best product identity differentiation technique EVER) jammed into my NES.

The other one for the NES... Zelda 2: The Adventures of Link, sucked. It's like someone played too many hours of Castlevania and tried to bring side-scroller adventure into Zelda. And failed.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

What is everyone's thoughts about rereleasing Ocarina for a handheld, but not for a consol?

[ShneekeyTheLost]

What is everyone's thoughts about rereleasing Ocarina for a handheld, but not for a consol?

They already re-released OoT for Game Cube, along with Zelda, Zelda2, and Majora's Mask.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Not better graphics like the handheld one.

[Zevox]

What is everyone's thoughts about rereleasing Ocarina for a handheld, but not for a consol?
*shrugs* What thoughts are there to have? What difference does it make what kind of platform it was released on? Handhelds have reached the point where they can more than handle N64-level games, so there's really no significant difference to be made between the two options anymore.

Zevox

[ShneekeyTheLost]

*shrugs* What thoughts are there to have? What difference does it make what kind of platform it was released on? Handhelds have reached the point where they can more than handle N64-level games, so there's really no significant difference to be made between the two options anymore.

Zevox

I think he was hoping it would get a graphics revamp up to, say, Twilight Princess level graphics, if it was ported to a console.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Indeed. :( Ah well. Maybe someday.

[Sith_Happens]

I think he was hoping it would get a graphics revamp up to, say, Twilight Princess level graphics, if it was ported to a console.


Indeed. :( Ah well. Maybe someday.

Considering the success that Sony and Microsoft have had with "HD collections" of various series, I would hope that Ninentdo considers putting some out on the Wii U after it releases.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

So...is there anything people find confusing about the timeline throughout different games?

[Landis963]

I'm not sure why Nintendo didn't have the third timeline split off from Majora's mask, even though Link canonically fails to save Termina at least once (the Deku sprout tutorial cycle), whether he plays the Song of Time or whether the Happy Mask Salesman rescues him and plunks him back at the beginning of the cycle.

[LoneStarNorth]

I'm not sure why Nintendo didn't have the third timeline split off from Majora's mask...

Probably because Majora's Mask takes place in a freaky alternate world and not during any major crisis in Hyrule. When Link succeeds, he leaves Termina and then presumably doesn't do anything else of real significance in his lifetime. If he fails, Termina goes kaboom and Link doesn't leave Termina, meaning he doesn't do anything else of real significance in his lifetime.

[Landis963]

Probably because Majora's Mask takes place in a freaky alternate world and not during any major crisis in Hyrule. When Link succeeds, he leaves Termina and then presumably doesn't do anything else of real significance in his lifetime. If he fails, Termina goes kaboom and Link doesn't leave Termina, meaning he doesn't do anything else of real significance in his lifetime.

Or anything after, such as teaching a certain successor (I.e. The hero of twilight) several sword moves. Again, this is what we are shown on screen(and Hyrule Historia does bear out that the Hero's Shade is in fact the OoT/MM Link). Also, why would the Skull Kid willingly relinquish the mask after Termina died, assuming that he didn't get vaporized by the impact and the mask floated off to do more dirty work? Remember, a Skull kid which knows Saria's song appears in the very next game (I.e. Twilight Princess) in the OoT timeline, whereas no such entity appears in ALttP (nor, I believe, in any other game in that timeline, tho I'm willing to admit a lack of familiarity in that regard however).

[Sith_Happens]

Overall, I definitely find it odd that there's a timeline branch that basically assumes you didn't complete one of the games.:smallconfused:

[Landis963]

Overall, I definitely find it odd that there's a timeline branch that basically assumes you didn't complete one of the games.:smallconfused:

This. This is basically what bugs me about the decision. If they were going to choose that timeline 3 is "you didn't complete a game, sucks to be you" then why didn't they have it split off from the game that ends and restarts as part of the story?

[Zevox]

So...is there anything people find confusing about the timeline throughout different games?
I find it confusing that people actually try to tie all of the games together through a timeline at all. Does that count?

Zevox

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Valid point. XD

I liked imagining descendants and so on. Not so much fun now.

[AdmiralCheez]

So, it turns out there are actually people playing the N64 OoT alongside the 3DS version on youtube. And from the sound of it, they're doing the whole game. Here it is (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=l30UzoR5LXg), if you want to watch it.

[Knaight]

So, it turns out there are actually people playing the N64 OoT alongside the 3DS version on youtube. And from the sound of it, they're doing the whole game. Here it is (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=l30UzoR5LXg), if you want to watch it.

It's nice to see that the text speed seems to sync up with what is expected with someone who is actually literate now, as opposed to leaving enough time for the semi-literate to struggle through while annoying everyone who actually reads.

[AdmiralCheez]

It's nice to see that the text speed seems to sync up with what is expected with someone who is actually literate now, as opposed to leaving enough time for the semi-literate to struggle through while annoying everyone who actually reads.

Yeah, I can't imagine playing a game with fixed-speed dialogue anymore. I actually do read the text the first time playing something, but reading at a slow pace just gets annoying and hinders my ability to remember any of it. So, it just defeats the purpose of making me read every word individually.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

So, it turns out there are actually people playing the N64 OoT alongside the 3DS version on youtube. And from the sound of it, they're doing the whole game. Here it is (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=l30UzoR5LXg), if you want to watch it.

I'm trying to do the whole game like that with someone as a race. I have been for FIVE years now. Sigh. :smallsigh:

[AdmiralCheez]

I'm trying to do the whole game like that with someone as a race. I have been for FIVE years now. Sigh. :smallsigh:

Hmm... I guess maybe you could play alongside the video and pretend you're racing them? If you get desperate enough? I'm sorry...

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Lol. It's all good. Someday. I'm not that desperate but it's a nice thought. Ah well.

[INoKnowNames]

I'm actually considering playing some of the old Zelda games I haven't beaten/played. Which ones do you think I should do first?

The Legend of Zelda
Zelda II: The Adventure of Link
The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask
The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Ages and Seasons (never finished the final dungeon)
The Legend of Zelda: Four Swords Adventures
The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword

And if none of those, the ones I do remember finishing:

The Legend of Zelda:A Link to the Past
The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening
The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker
The Legend of Zelda: The Minish Cap
The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess
The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass
The Legend of Zelda: Spirit Tracks

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Majora's mask first!

[Landis963]

Agreed, do Majora's Mask first, then perhaps Skyward Sword if you want a breather. (for multiple reasons, including much more optimistic and much more "normal" than MM)

[Mewtarthio]

Overall, I definitely find it odd that there's a timeline branch that basically assumes you didn't complete one of the games.:smallconfused:

I've heard a couple of explanations for that besides "You got a Game Over." One's that the "Ganon wins" timeline is one where Link pulls the Master Sword and is never seen again*. Another is that the bad timeline is the one where Link pulls the sword, reappears in the future, fights for a bit, then puts the sword back and vanishes.

*I'm not sure why traveling to the future would break the timeline. Something about how the sword actually removed Link's spirit from the time stream altogether while his body matured.

[Sith_Happens]

I've heard a couple of explanations for that besides "You got a Game Over." One's that the "Ganon wins" timeline is one where Link pulls the Master Sword and is never seen again*. Another is that the bad timeline is the one where Link pulls the sword, reappears in the future, fights for a bit, then puts the sword back and vanishes.

*I'm not sure why traveling to the future would break the timeline. Something about how the sword actually removed Link's spirit from the time stream altogether while his body matured.

So basically, the split is from the part where you have to go to the Spirit Temple as a kid? I guess that makes enough sense.

[Lentrax]

OoT is my favorite, hands down. It may not have aged well, sure. But it has a Master's Quest, as well as more than a handful of challenges created by various players.

Who else has been able to pull of the Three Hearts (Unarmored) challenge?

[TheWombatOfDoom]

As in get through the whole game without...beating the bosses? Doesn't that prevent you from getting things you need such as spiritual stones or medallions?

[Sipex]

Nono, you misunderstand. You simply avoid picking up the heart containers after defeating each boss.

They'll just sit there indefinitely until you take them so there's no risk.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Nono, you misunderstand. You simply avoid picking up the heart containers after defeating each boss.

They'll just sit there indefinitely until you take them so there's no risk.

Ahhhhhh! No, I haven't done that. I HAVE gone through without any hearts OTHER than the boss ones. I'll have to try it out with only 3 hearts.

[Lentrax]

It's definitely a challenge. Especially in the later boss fights where one hit will be able to kill.

[Teln]

OoT is my favorite, hands down. It may not have aged well, sure. But it has a Master's Quest, as well as more than a handful of challenges created by various players.

Who else has been able to pull of the Three Hearts (Unarmored) challenge?

I did that in Oracle of Ages, although I will admit to needing a Magic Potion to kill Veran.

[Lentrax]

Which is perfectly acceptable.

Unless you are doing an uber challenge. Those are some the hardest to pull off.

Ever. :smallamused:

[Sipex]

I'm thinking a 3 heart, hero mode quest for Skyward Sword after I finish my current hero mode run through. That ought to be challenging.

[Lentrax]

Unfortunately, young kids+Wiimote+watching daddy play games=no more wii, so I have not played SS yet. But I will.

One day.

And then I shall 3 heart that game into submission.

Or cry in a corner when I can't finish it.

Either way we're gonna have some fun, right?

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Overall, I definitely find it odd that there's a timeline branch that basically assumes you didn't complete one of the games.:smallconfused:

Actually, from what I am given to understand, it's more like this:

OoT: Link saves the world, and defeats Gannon.

MM: Link leaves Hyrule and goes looking for [REDACTED]

Gannon comes back, but because Link is off chasing [REDACTED], Link isn't in Hyrule and isn't there to save them again.

Therefore, the events in WW eventually take place.

[Landis963]

WW takes place after Link seals Ganon as an adult, then goes back home via the Temple of Time. Fast-forward several years later, Ganon reawakes and starts rampaging again, but because Link doesn't know that there are two versions of Ganondorf to deal with, he's not around to save the day. Thus, the instances of the Goddesses in that timeline decide to seal Hyrule under the sea that doesn't make sense as an unfortunate stalling tactic.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

WW takes place after Link seals Ganon as an adult, then goes back home via the Temple of Time. Fast-forward several years later, Ganon reawakes and starts rampaging again, but because Link doesn't know that there are two versions of Ganondorf to deal with, he's not around to save the day.That... makes no sense at all.
Thus, the instances of the Goddesses in that timeline decide to seal Hyrule under the sea that doesn't make sense as an unfortunate stalling tactic.It isn't the Goddesses place to save the world, it's the Hero's. The most the Goddesses are permitted/allowed to do is to stall until the Hero can be born again.

[Landis963]

That... makes no sense at all. It isn't the Goddesses place to save the world, it's the Hero's. The most the Goddesses are permitted/allowed to do is to stall until the Hero can be born again.

The point is, WW is in a different timeline than the one Link is after OoT and MM. Also, I never said that the flood was anything other than a stalling tactic until a successor could be found.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

The point is, WW is in a different timeline than the one Link is after OoT and MM. Also, I never said that the flood was anything other than a stalling tactic until a successor could be found.

Not really. It references the 'Hero of Time', thus OoT. It references putting paid to Gannon. So, OoT beaten.

Then, Gannon comes back. Doesn't say how long the gap was. Could've been a couple of centuries, and Link was dead of old age, for all that is known.

There's no continuity discontinuity that I see.

[Landis963]

Not really. It references the 'Hero of Time', thus OoT. It references putting paid to Gannon. So, OoT beaten.

Then, Gannon comes back. Doesn't say how long the gap was. Could've been a couple of centuries, and Link was dead of old age, for all that is known.

There's no continuity discontinuity that I see.

Again, I don't remember saying there was any. Please point out where I was misleading on this. Besides, the timeline splits because Link (who of course would be remembered for defeating a giant manbearpig and freeing the land from Ganondorf's oppression in the Adult timeline) leaves that time and warns Zelda early, in the Child timeline.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Again, I don't remember saying there was any. Please point out where I was misleading on this. Besides, the timeline splits because Link (who of course would be remembered for defeating a giant manbearpig and freeing the land from Ganondorf's oppression in the Adult timeline) leaves that time and warns Zelda early, in the Child timeline.

Ummm... okay? I guess? Multiple timelines? If that's what you want to go with... I guess.

[Landis963]

Ummm... okay? I guess? Multiple timelines? If that's what you want to go with... I guess.

:smallannoyed: That's what Nintendo went with, so yes, that's what I'm going with.

[Lentrax]

Yeah. Guess we don't really have a choice anymore, canon-wise anyway.

[Triaxx]

Yeah, because that's stopped fans, ever.

Ahem. I'm hard pressed to name a Favorite Zelda, mostly because they're ALL so good. I'll have to go with Majora's Mask, even if not finding out until years later that you could HOLD A to swim fast severly hampered my enjoyment. Frankly, though, there's nothing quite as much fun as racing around Termina Field in Spiked Goron Ball mode. Going full tilt and shattering enemies, skipping up ramps and hitting every single grass field as I go. Oh the memories.

Here's a fun thing to in Twilight Princess. Reach the point where Kakariko's Gates are unlocked, and Eldin Bridge is in place. Fill your lantern, and mount Epona. Start at the Spring in Kakariko and make a circuit of Hyrule. See how far you can go before your lantern runs out.

I'd race you Wombat, but I wouldn't want to leave you crying in my dust, wondering how I have the Biggoron sword while you're still in the fish. ;)

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Yeah, because that's stopped fans, ever.

Ahem. I'm hard pressed to name a Favorite Zelda, mostly because they're ALL so good. I'll have to go with Majora's Mask, even if not finding out until years later that you could HOLD A to swim fast severly hampered my enjoyment. Frankly, though, there's nothing quite as much fun as racing around Termina Field in Spiked Goron Ball mode. Going full tilt and shattering enemies, skipping up ramps and hitting every single grass field as I go. Oh the memories.

Here's a fun thing to in Twilight Princess. Reach the point where Kakariko's Gates are unlocked, and Eldin Bridge is in place. Fill your lantern, and mount Epona. Start at the Spring in Kakariko and make a circuit of Hyrule. See how far you can go before your lantern runs out.

I'd race you Wombat, but I wouldn't want to leave you crying in my dust, wondering how I have the Biggoron sword while you're still in the fish. ;)

If that's a challenge, you're on. We'll need to figure out logistics, but yeah. Challenge accepted. If that is indeed the case I will weep with joy at finally being beaten.

[Triaxx]

I'd love to, but after attempting to play, I've discovered that I don't have a single controller with an unbroken stick. And no money to replace them. It's frustrating. I managed a bit, but right in the middle of the Gohma fight the stick just stopped locking to the middle. I won, but it's too crippling a disadvantage.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

I'd love to, but after attempting to play, I've discovered that I don't have a single controller with an unbroken stick. And no money to replace them. It's frustrating. I managed a bit, but right in the middle of the Gohma fight the stick just stopped locking to the middle. I won, but it's too crippling a disadvantage.

Noted. That's a bloody shame. I have a few extras, but I don't think I'd be willing to send you one, especially if you're not in america, or even the east coast. Haha. Ah shipping. Well, let me know if you ever aquire the controller. I plan on putting the whole thing on youtube, in any case, so you can at least watch when it happens.

[Beowulf DW]

So happy that there's a thread for this! I've loved every Legend of Zelda game I've played, though none more than Wind Waker. I can't explain it properly, but playing that game gave me such joy. I loved the sailing part especially, even though I'm given to understand that most people didn't.

[Triaxx]

I'm up in Michigan actually, but yeah, shipping isn't cheap. I'll find one eventually. I just sort of had the N64 for years and nothing else to play but the PC and I burned through nearly as many mice and keyboards as I did N64 controllers.

[Yuki Akuma]

Ummm... okay? I guess? Multiple timelines? If that's what you want to go with... I guess.

...Nintendo has been going with split timelines since Wind Waker.

Recently they've actually told us what those timelines are. It's not hard to find the information, but if you're seriously that Google-impaired, here (http://www.zeldawiki.org/Zelda_Timeline).

All info in that article was taken from Hyrule Historia, an official book produced by Nintendo. So yeah. It's the official word.

[Xondoure]

My guess is way down the line they plan to fuse all three timelines in a crazy super Zelda game. But that's just my two cents from the country of wild speculation.

Edit: Heck easy tie in to the triforce even.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

...Nintendo has been going with split timelines since Wind Waker.

Recently they've actually told us what those timelines are. It's not hard to find the information, but if you're seriously that Google-impaired, here (http://www.zeldawiki.org/Zelda_Timeline).

All info in that article was taken from Hyrule Historia, an official book produced by Nintendo. So yeah. It's the official word.

That timeline makes absolutely NO sense whatsoever. Not that it's the first time Corporate Stupid has screwed things up, but that is just... ridiculous.

First off, if the Hero of Time is defeated, then Gannon wins. There IS no 'sealing war', because Gannon owns the Triforce AND the Golden Realm. Likewise, none of the following games could then exist either. Specifically, having a timeline wherein you have the only triforce-wielding royalty in the timeline where Gannon has won several generations prior is... fail.

Second, Link to the Past is the END of the timeline... you know, where it is definitively stated that the Master Sword rests... FOREVER.

Furthermore, the Dark Realm is not turned into the Golden Realm until the end of LTTP.

I suppose this is a situation of 'I reject your reality and substitute my own', because it just is utterly and completely made of fail.

[Yuki Akuma]

The Master Sword doesn't appear in The Legend of Zelda or Zelda II. It's not required. Ganon is killed in the first Zelda game with the Silver Arrows, not the Master Sword.

[Landis963]

That timeline makes absolutely NO sense whatsoever. Not that it's the first time Corporate Stupid has screwed things up, but that is just... ridiculous.

First off, if the Hero of Time is defeated, then Gannon wins. There IS no 'sealing war', because Gannon owns the Triforce AND the Golden Realm. Likewise, none of the following games could then exist either. Specifically, having a timeline wherein you have the only triforce-wielding royalty in the timeline where Gannon has won several generations prior is... fail.

Second, Link to the Past is the END of the timeline... you know, where it is definitively stated that the Master Sword rests... FOREVER.

Furthermore, the Dark Realm is not turned into the Golden Realm until the end of LTTP.

I suppose this is a situation of 'I reject your reality and substitute my own', because it just is utterly and completely made of fail.

:smallsigh: I'm not disagreeing with you, at least with regard to that timeline. It is for that reason that I'd prefer it to be split off from Majora's Mask (which, BTW, is my personal headcanon regarding it), if only so that Ganon doesn't have either at the end of it (remember, in the Child timeline, he is apprehended and sentenced to death for treason by the Sages as seen in TP). Once Rusl and co.'s resistance explodes into the Sealing War (heck, there might even be an unblessed version of Link in the mix, just like WW), the timeline can continue as normal. I handwave away the "sleeps again... FOREVER!" part by saying that 1) that's from the POV of someone in-story, say, Sahasrahla (sp?) or Zelda and 2) that's exactly what happened with Fi, only her dialogue just before going under implies that there's going to be another one (which, of course, the audience knows to be true).

[Mewtarthio]

Edit: Heck easy tie in to the triforce even.

That works pretty well, actually. The "adult" timeline is tied with Courage, because Link's the one who defeats Ganon. The "child" timeline is tied with Wisdom, because Zelda preempts Ganon. The "bad" timeline is tied with Power, because Ganon wins and is only overthrown by a costly war.


First off, if the Hero of Time is defeated, then Gannon wins. There IS no 'sealing war', because Gannon owns the Triforce AND the Golden Realm. Likewise, none of the following games could then exist either. Specifically, having a timeline wherein you have the only triforce-wielding royalty in the timeline where Gannon has won several generations prior is... fail.

The Sealing War was canon in LttP. It's in the manual.

[Landis963]

That works pretty well, actually. The "adult" timeline is tied with Courage, because Link's the one who defeats Ganon. The "child" timeline is tied with Wisdom, because Zelda preempts Ganon. The "bad" timeline is tied with Power, because Ganon wins and is only overthrown by a costly war.

That makes a lot of sense, and it still jives with believing that it happened after the bad ending of Majora's Mask, which makes it perfect, IMO. (It doesn't matter when Ganon "wins" just as long as he does so within one "era" of Hylian history, and their counterpart to the Era of Twilight )


The Sealing War was canon in LttP. It's in the manual.

He's not arguing that it isn't canon. He's arguing that the canon is stupid. And as described by Nintendo, yes there are quite a few plot holes.

[Yuki Akuma]

Also, may I just point out: for the love of God there is only one n in Ganon.

The spelling in LoZ was a typo.

[Sith_Happens]

Also, may I just point out: for the love of God there is only one n in Ganon.

The spelling in LoZ was a typo.

Move along, nothing to see here... (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GannonBanned):smalltongue:

[Androgeus]

Also, may I just point out: for the love of God there is only one n in Ganon.

why have you spelled it with two n's then? :smalltongue:

[JoshL]

Bit of an obsessive fan myself. Spent most of August replaying all the games. Fun fact: the US release of the first game was on my 10th birthday! I wish I could say I got it, but I definitely WANTED it (loved the commercials). I have the OoT sword/shield tattooed on my left shoulder. I own most of the games (including the abysmal CD-I games!) and have played them more often than anyone should admit to!

Not sure I could rank them. Huge fan of Majora's Mask. Love the first, after all these years. Wind Waker had one of my favorite endings...until Twilight Princess. Can't think of one I didn't enjoy! Well, maybe those CD-I games, but they have a bit of "so bad it's good" to them....

Oh, and a note about the Symphony of the Goddesses (which I caught here in Pittsburgh this summer). It was the same arrangements as on the 25th Anniversary cd, but a lot more. The 25Acd contains two of the four movements to the "main symphony" (though on a technical level, they're done more as suites for games, but there's enough repeated motifs to make it seem like a complete symphony...head hurting now). The individual themes were a bit more expanded as compared to the cd (particularly the Ballad of the Goddess), and they played a LOT more live. I'd say the cd was 1/3-1/4 of the show, if memory serves. I really hope they release the entire show, and in the proper order. There are a couple pieces that I REALLY want to own on cd...

But what I really wanted to talk about is the brilliance of the overture (or "anniversary medley"), which opens both the cd and the live show. Astounding stuff, introducing so many themes and motifs that are expanded on through the rest of the show...not even introducing the main theme until halfway through...compare directly to the suite for the Video Games Live tour (which is a fun show, but sort of mediocre arrangements), which leaned so heavily on that theme they might as well have just played that.

Yeah. Music geek. Zelda fan. Great games.

[Triaxx]

Nintendo also makes games about a pair of plumbers fighting mushrooms, and turtles to save a princess. Some timeline weirdness can be forgiven.

[INoKnowNames]

Nintendo also makes games about a pair of plumbers fighting mushrooms, and turtles to save a princess. Some timeline weirdness can be forgiven.

Actually, you Fight Mushrooms, Save Mushrooms, and Eat Mushrooms. And try not to confuse said Mushrooms, or else bad things happen.

[Rake21]

Nintendo also makes games about a pair of plumbers fighting mushrooms, and turtles to save a princess. Some timeline weirdness can be forgiven.

There was also the time that the plumbers met Link, an ape in a tie, a space bounty hunter, a hover car racer, a psychic child, an inexplicable electric mouse, and Solid Snake... and then proceeded to have epic fights and battle a giant hand.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

I think we can agree that this game was off canon. :smallbiggrin:

FALCOOOOOOOOOOOOOON punch to drink. :3

[Logic]

Actually, you Fight Mushrooms, Save Mushrooms, and Eat Mushrooms. And try not to confuse said Mushrooms, or else bad things happen.

Is anyone else reminded of "Marklar," or am I the only one?

[TheWombatOfDoom]

I'm guessing you're the only one...not sure what Marklar is...:smallconfused:

*uncorks fairy from fairy bottle to rejuvenate thread*

Hey everyone! Which dungeon from which game is your favorite?

[Madara]

I'm guessing you're the only one...not sure what Marklar is...:smallconfused:

*uncorks fairy from fairy bottle to rejuvenate thread*

Hey everyone! Which dungeon from which game is your favorite?

I have a habit of calling all the dungeons "Temples"

My favorite is probably the Water Temple from OoT because it was just the greatest.

[Sith_Happens]

Hey everyone! Which dungeon from which game is your favorite?

The Water Temple from Ocarina of Time, duh.

EDIT: Ninja'd.

[Androgeus]

I have a habit of calling all the dungeons "Temples"

My favorite is probably the Water Temple from OoT because it was just the greatest.


The Water Temple from Ocarina of Time, duh.

EDIT: Ninja'd.
Wow you guys like the water temple so much you even write about it in blue text :smallbiggrin: I know blue is the colour of sarcasm, just like white is apparently the colour of explaining the joke

[TheWombatOfDoom]

FACEPALM.

Yeah. Temples. Been playing too much D & D.

I'm a big fan of the spirit temple from ocarina of time myself.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Honestly? Twilight Princes, the city in the sky.

Why? Easy...

Spider Link, Spider Link. Does whatever a Spider Link does. Look oooout... here comes the Spider Link.

[JoshL]

Majora - Stone Tower. Snowpeak in Twilight was pretty awesome. Very fond of the Ocarina Forest Temple, and the Bottom of the Well too. I love some of the smaller ones; the Skulltula houses in Majora, the Ghost Ship in Wind Waker, etc.

Oh and found this photo from 2003. Damn I'm getting old.
http://gnarphlager.com/zelda.jpg

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Majora - Stone Tower. Snowpeak in Twilight was pretty awesome. Very fond of the Ocarina Forest Temple, and the Bottom of the Well too. I love some of the smaller ones; the Skulltula houses in Majora, the Ghost Ship in Wind Waker, etc.

Oh and found this photo from 2003. Damn I'm getting old.
http://gnarphlager.com/zelda.jpg

I HATED getting into stone tower. HATED it. I love the temple, hated repeatedly playing that infernal song.

[Rake21]

I'd have to go with two from Wind Waker. The second trip to The Forsaken Fortress and Ganon's Castle.

The Shadow Temple in OoT was also pretty damn good.

Though, I will give a shout out to Twilight Princess for having a dungeon where the mini-boss is an ape you have to hit in the ass with your sword.:smallbiggrin:

[Antonok]

Its a toss up between the water temple in OoT or the snowhead temple in MM.

[Lentrax]

Though, I will give a shout out to Twilight Princess for having a dungeon where the mini-boss is an ape you have to hit in the ass with your sword.:smallbiggrin:

Yeah, who'd have thought of putting in a miniboss where you have to spank a monkey?

But I have to say, my personal favorite was the Gerudo Fortress in OoT. Sneaking around? In an action combat game? Madness!

Related Question: Favorite Boss fight. My personal favorite is the final fight with Ganondorf in TP. It may have been short, but it was just so impressive, cinematically speaking.

[Landis963]

My fave would have to be the Ancient Cistern. Although I hate Stalmasters with a passion. :smallfurious: Where's the helm splitter when you need it?!

Fave boss: Toss-up between TP's Ganondorf and SS's Koloktos. On that note: Why do you think it is that the straight duels (OoT's Dark Link, TP's Ganondorf, etc.) are so popular compared to others?

EDIT: Actually, there are so many. Just a few more minutes of thought made me think of Zant, Demise, and TP Ganon, not to mention the Darknut boss fight in the Temple of Time. And of course Oot (this would be the aforementioned monkey you have to spank).

[Drascin]

Favorite boss fight?

Wind Waker Ganon by a mile.

I don't actually much remember TP Ganon beyond a vague shape I was wailing on. But WW Ganon definitely made an impression. It also struck me as making a lot more sense - Ganondorf was trained in combat by the Gerudos, after all. The greatsword never seemed to make a lot of sense!

[Knaight]

Favorite temple is hard to pick. That said:

The water temple from MM was fantastic.
Snowpeak and City in the Sky were also both good, though the boss fights are both eclipsed by the Desert Temple. The water temple was also good.
Ancient Cistern is glorious, as was the pirate ship.
I actually liked the water temple from OoT.
The Earth temple in WW was a lot of fun.

[Sith_Happens]

Honestly? Twilight Princes, the city in the sky.

Why? Easy...

Spider Link, Spider Link. Does whatever a Spider Link does. Look oooout... here comes the Spider Link.

Seconding this.


Related Question: Favorite Boss fight. My personal favorite is the final fight with Ganondorf in TP. It may have been short, but it was just so impressive, cinematically speaking.

Are you talking about just the ending sword duel or the full four stages of the fight? Because if the latter then I'd hardly call that one "short." I'm also seconding it as my favorite, probably tied with the desert boss from the same game. The second stage of that one is just made of awesome.

[Madara]

Let's see:


Actual Favorite Dungeon: Makar's from WW or SS's Timeshift place, simply for the timeshift
Favorite Boss: Olamra from MM because it gives me plenty of time to test out the Oni Mask.
Favorite Gannondorf: Twilight Princess in terms of character design/ development, and WW's in terms of final fight.

[JoshL]

Boss fight? I love Gleeok from the first. Always fun! But the ending of Wind Waker is just fantastic. And, of course, any Dark Link goes without saying!

[Lentrax]

It was pretty long, but that last sword fight at the end was over so quickly, it almost made the whole thing just feel short.

But yeah, lets change that to favorite boss fight, and favorite Ganon/dorf fight scene.

[Triaxx]

Favorite Dungeon? A toss up between the Tower of the Gods in Wind Waker, and the Water Temple in Majora's Mask. The pre-Ancient Prison is at least a mini-dungeon, starting from the camp in the desert to the fight with the big-guy, which is fun.

Favorite Boss? Goht. Hands-down, no contest, best EVER. Volvagia is a good second.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

One of the reasons I loved TP so much is that they made the boss fights so much more... dynamic.

As a few examples:

The aforementioned 'spank the monkey', you had to roll into the pillar he was standing on to knock him over before you could do any damage to him.

Skeledragon in the desert temple. Do I *really* need to go any further? You're basically playing first-person Bakugan, with the added problem of disposable minions popping up all over the place. And then there's the second form...

The combat maneuvers also give combat a new dimension, giving you options other than 'smash the A button repeatedly until it falls over'.

The only other game that had something even remotely similar was the very first boss fight from WindWaker, where you had to pull on Valoo's tail to beat the critter pissing him off. Yea, because pulling on a dragon's tail is *REALLY* going to endear him to you...

It actually uses and incorporates the environment into the boss fights, something other titles really can't say all that much.

[Linkavitch]

My favorite temple would probably have to be the Pirate Ship from SS, or Hyrule Castle from TP. Both are awesome, even with the ridiculously hard to pull off three on one Darknut fights.

Favorite boss? Either Koloktos or Demise.

[Mewtarthio]

The Sandship was my favorite, though pretty much all the dungeons from the second half of SS were awesome. The Twilit Palace was also pretty cool, though kind of short and straightforward.

Favorite Ganon? If you mean favorite fight, I'm going with Twilight Princess. That Ganon really made you believe that you were up against someone who'd stolen the power of the gods. Wind Waker Ganon wins in terms of story, though.

[TechnOkami]

Zelda? Zelda! I love playing TLoZ!

Favorites? Ooh, I love favorites!

I'll have to totes agree that the WW Ganon boss fight was just boss (TP Ganon wasn't bad, but WW Ganon had much more impact), but as for my personal favorite boss fight of all time?

Hm...

Koloktos from Skyward Sword.

Yeah he was easy as all hell to defeat, but that's not the reason why he's my favorite boss so far.

He's my favorite boss because I get to pick up one of those MASSIVE swords and just start wailing on him with a blade so disproportional to Link's body it makes my heart sing! Gwaaah, I can't get enough of well-done over sized swords, and this boss fight just takes the cake.

Anyways, other favorites...

Favorite Dungeon: Ahpffsh... I don't think I have one. I don't know, I just don't really have one. I guess I enjoyed the Snowy Mansion in TP because it initially didn't feel like a Dungeon, but in between until right after you defeat Blizzara, it all feels like Dungeon to me (save for those few between bits where you come back to give her hubby soup ingredients). But other than that, Dungeons feel like Dungeons to me, and I don't exactly feel any true attachment to any in particular.

Favorite Ending: Link's Awakening. Finally being able to see the full fledged form of the Wind Fish and all the post-game connotations which occur was all rather heartwarming to me. Also, it's the first Zelda game I owned.

[Triaxx]

Linkavitch: If you thought that 3 on one Darknut was hard, the last level of the Cave of Ordeals throws FOUR of them at you.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Linkavitch: If you thought that 3 on one Darknut was hard, the last level of the Cave of Ordeals throws FOUR of them at you.

Yea, but then you get to unlock unlimited access to Faerie Tears, which is boss.

[Knaight]

Linkavitch: If you thought that 3 on one Darknut was hard, the last level of the Cave of Ordeals throws FOUR of them at you.

The area is big enough that that isn't really a problem. A backflip heavy strategy renders that fight not a problem, to the point where the ice section in the Cave of Ordeals is significantly worse.

[Madara]

The area is big enough that that isn't really a problem. A backflip heavy strategy renders that fight not a problem, to the point where the ice section in the Cave of Ordeals is significantly worse.

This. That section was the stopping point for me a few times. :smalltongue:

[Sith_Happens]

This. That section was the stopping point for me a few times. :smalltongue:

I tanked through those floors with the Magic Armor. Took most of my rupees each time, but you can dig up multiple wallets'-worth on your way down anyways.

[Triaxx]

I never had an issue with the ice areas. That last fight on the other hand, is probably the only time I've ever used the charged Jump attack. It would stagger them enough to separate one or two out.

Of course it's infinitely easier with the Magic armor.

[Knaight]

I tanked through those floors with the Magic Armor. Took most of my rupees each time, but you can dig up multiple wallets'-worth on your way down anyways.

I mostly just blew everything up with bombs from the top platform, while using the ball and chain on everything it could reach. It was still harder than the Darknut fight.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

I mostly just blew everything up with bombs from the top platform, while using the ball and chain on everything it could reach. It was still harder than the Darknut fight.

Man, do I love the ball and chain. :3

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Man, do I love the ball and chain. :3

Yea, gotta love the ol' Ball n Chain. I mean, she's... er... oh wait, wrong ball n chain :P

It's a quirky weapon, to be sure, but has its uses from time to time.

Actually, that's what I love about TP... very few weapons are ever 'outmoded' and only used in certain areas. In fact, only the Slingshot and maybe the Dominion Rod are the only weapons which are really 'use once and then forget about it'. The Dominion Rod is pretty much a temple key, so the only one that is really outmoded is the Slingshot, which gets replaced by the Bow in the Volcano Temple.

The game might've flowed better without the slingshot, simply not requiring a ranged weapon until you get the boomerang, but the slingshot is a holdover from OoT, and it's a good tutorial for bow aiming in the early game.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

One thing about twighlight princess that confused me was the scene at the lakebed spirit shrine with the multiple dark links. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKYyh8zi3aI) It never served any further purpose. I thought it might have been some sort of foreshadowing for an encounter with dark link, or a betrayal based on corruption, but that never happened. It almost seemed pointless. And incredibly creepy.

Another was that it didn't have enough mini quests in my opinion. The ones that weren't part of the main quest were extreamly easy...it even created a way for you to find EVERY piece heart by paying a fortune teller. But I did enjoy the game a lot.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

One thing about twighlight princess that confused me was the scene at the lakebed spirit shrine with the multiple dark links. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKYyh8zi3aI) It never served any further purpose. I thought it might have been some sort of foreshadowing for an encounter with dark link, or a betrayal based on corruption, but that never happened. It almost seemed pointless. And incredibly creepy.I think all of the males had Link's face to really drive it home to him what was going on. The 'dark links' were the shadow folk with an excess of magic.


Another was that it didn't have enough mini quests in my opinion. The ones that weren't part of the main quest were extreamly easy...it even created a way for you to find EVERY piece heart by paying a fortune teller. But I did enjoy the game a lot.

I think the length of the main quest more than made up for it, in my opinion. Besides, I was never one for a bunch of mini quests. There were some scenes I wish I could have done over and over though... the hidden city wild west routine, for example, or the break-in at the desert temple. Those were a lot of fun when you had Bow + Hawkeye. Sniping opponents from the shadows, going door-to-door ambushing moblins... I've got a save at the point where the wild west scene in the hidden city is... just so I can do it again whenever I feel like it.

[Knaight]

It's a quirky weapon, to be sure, but has its uses from time to time.

Actually, that's what I love about TP... very few weapons are ever 'outmoded' and only used in certain areas. In fact, only the Slingshot and maybe the Dominion Rod are the only weapons which are really 'use once and then forget about it'. The Dominion Rod is pretty much a temple key, so the only one that is really outmoded is the Slingshot, which gets replaced by the Bow in the Volcano Temple.

I'd agree with this, on all points - that said, it's about the same for Skyward Sword, although the whip was basically useless from the instant you got it. Even the slingshot remained viable through the end, with the scattershot being useful against groups of keese and similar.

Regarding Twilight Princess: I'd consider the dominion rod a horribly underutilized item that could have been so much more. It is also a shame that you can't use the ball and chain from horseback.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I'd agree with this, on all points - that said, it's about the same for Skyward Sword, although the whip was basically useless from the instant you got it. Even the slingshot remained viable through the end, with the scattershot being useful against groups of keese and similar.

Regarding Twilight Princess: I'd consider the dominion rod a horribly underutilized item that could have been so much more. It is also a shame that you can't use the ball and chain from horseback.

If you could get scattershot on the slingshot in TP, it would have remained viable throughout the game as well. That actually sounds like a nifty idea. Another idea would've been upgraded seeds. I'm thinking something like the Deku Nut from OoT, which would temporarily stun targets. Or maybe sprouting seeds to create something you can Clawshot on a target, but it has to be something it could grow out of (i.e. only working on dirt) so similar in nature to WW's wind temple with the Koku's ability to plant seeds to hookshot.

Ahh well, it was still a very nice game, even if the slingshot was outmoded when you got the bow and the Dominion Rod was massively under-utilized.

[Madara]

If you could get scattershot on the slingshot in TP, it would have remained viable throughout the game as well. That actually sounds like a nifty idea. Another idea would've been upgraded seeds. I'm thinking something like the Deku Nut from OoT, which would temporarily stun targets. Or maybe sprouting seeds to create something you can Clawshot on a target, but it has to be something it could grow out of (i.e. only working on dirt) so similar in nature to WW's wind temple with the Koku's ability to plant seeds to hookshot.

Ahh well, it was still a very nice game, even if the slingshot was outmoded when you got the bow and the Dominion Rod was massively under-utilized.

Looks like we have a new topic(Or Old, I don't want to dig through the thread)

Favorite and Least Favorite Items

My Favorite is the Fire Rod from Four Swords. Especially when upgraded. I like to imagine that thing being in the next big 3D game. Its a flamethrower! :smallbiggrin: Screw the Latern!

Least Favorite is probably the slingshot(Except in SS) because it does get outdone by the bow(Especially with Hawkeye) and you never really find a use for it, its kinda a pain. It barely does any damage, and its essentially a handout.

[Triaxx]

I have to defend the honor of TP's slingshot. I was using it on my way through the Cave of ordeals to deal with keese, for two reasons. One being to conserve arrows, and the second being that it fires considerably faster, and is generally more accurate when moving. Plus firing faster means that not only can you fire, kill, repeat, but if you miss a shot, it's okay because you're ready to fire again. The bow has a much longer pull before it's ready to shoot.

Least Favorite Item: Any of the wooden shields. Because the designers are obsessed with throwing fire enemies at you, leaving you with no defenses until you can replace it, or in TP, a major part of your offense, because of the number of moves that start with a shield bash. Plus the enemies who are only open after you block a strike.

Favorite: How can I choose? Goron Mask is definitely a top contender, but so is the Zora Mask, once I figured it out. The Various shots, hook, claw. The boomerangs, from Link's Awakening's Super-rang, to the awesome ability to move stuff with TP's boomerang. Bottle Fairy. Ball and Chain. PEGASUS BOOTS.

There are way to many awesome things to choose from.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

I agree it's hard to pick a favorite. I've always been partial to the mirror shield puzzles. The items in Twilight Princess were excellent, and all mostly always useful. I LOVED the masks in majora's mask. Though they came close in SS, the swiming with the Zora's mask and the change of instruments/travel between races just made me happy. I will forever roll everywhere I can in Goron form, logic be pantsed!

On the sling shot topic, I prefered it when it was representative of young links weapon as it created a natural progression and sense of size ratio. However, having the slingshot first in TP shows a natural progression of Link useing what little he had at the start of the adventure, and for that I appreciate the item.

[Sith_Happens]

Favorite Item:

Toss-up between ball-and-chain and double clawshots. The former is what the megaton hammer wishes it was, and the second because Spider-Link.

Least Favorite Item:

The hookshot in Wind Waker, because they put it the last freaking temple. Let me get this straight: I finally get one of the most iconic and game-changing items in the whole series, and there's only enough game left for me to use it like twice?

Whoever's idea that was,

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/20192022.jpg

[ShneekeyTheLost]

You know what would've been badass? WW... getting the hookshot earlier... and being able to shoot the hookshot midair while swinging using the grappling hook. Not quite the 'spider link' that Clawshot-Akimbo does in TP, but getting a lot more badass. Considering the grappling hook and the hookshot use different things to latch onto, that could've made for a very cool dungeon setup.

Least favorite item? Dominion Rod from TP. Seriously... you use it once, it loses power and you have to run through a sidequest to turn it back on, then it is used in another sidequest to get up to the sky temple... and it is never used again. And really, I don't really like how the Dominion Rod works when you DO use it, either. They could've made that mechanic much more enjoyable.

The ball n chain is a lot of fun, I'll admit, but the Gale boomerang is also quite a lot of fun with multi-targeting. Swats down keese with ease.

[Landis963]

You know what would've been badass? WW... getting the hookshot earlier... and being able to shoot the hookshot midair while swinging using the grappling hook. Not quite the 'spider link' that Clawshot-Akimbo does in TP, but getting a lot more badass. Considering the grappling hook and the hookshot use different things to latch onto, that could've made for a very cool dungeon setup.

Ooh, that does sound fun. However, I've never played WW personally (insert copout here about LPs, watching others play, etc., etc...) but wouldn't it be difficult to aim if you're swinging back and forth? I mean, even in TP you're only asked to hit a moving clawshot target a few times, and even then they're mostly Peahats or in the City in the Sky.


Least favorite item? Dominion Rod from TP. Seriously... you use it once, it loses power and you have to run through a sidequest to turn it back on, then it is used in another sidequest to get up to the sky temple... and it is never used again. And really, I don't really like how the Dominion Rod works when you DO use it, either. They could've made that mechanic much more enjoyable.

Agreed totally, except that it gets a token puzzle, IIRC, in Hyrule Castle (As almost every mechanic does, see also: the random Gale Boomerang puzzle, the chandeliers acting as Clawshot medallions, the collapsing floor you use your Puppy Vision on). The Rod is still a poorly thought-out, unwieldy, and vastly underused mechanic.


The ball n chain is a lot of fun, I'll admit, but the Gale boomerang is also quite a lot of fun with multi-targeting. Swats down keese with ease.

I always found the ball-and-chain to be a little impractical. It doesn't help that I hated the Snowpeak mansion with fury enough to melt every single icy floor, wall, ceiling, and enemy in there, so there might be some bias. On that note:

Favorite item: the Clawshot, in both the incarnations I've played. What's that? I can grapple onto any vine-choked/mesh wall or target I see? I can stun enemies, take stuff off them, and/or pull them into sword-swinging range? Yes Please. Spider-Link only made it more fun.

Least favorite item: This one's tough. There's the Dominion Rod, which is annoying, useless, and annoyingly useless. There's the Dust Bellows, which is useless in combat. But I think my choice is the Mogma Mitts. You get it not once, but twice, it's useless in combat, and instead of Spider-Link you get to dig in a hole for a while. Compounding the annoyance is the tedium of the Moldorms, the underground mini-boss they keep throwing at you.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Ooh, that does sound fun. However, I've never played WW personally (insert copout here about LPs, watching others play, etc., etc...) but wouldn't it be difficult to aim if you're swinging back and forth? I mean, even in TP you're only asked to hit a moving clawshot target a few times, and even then they're mostly Peahats or in the City in the Sky. In the Goron Temple, you are required to shoot a rope with your bow while upside-down and attached to an electromagnet on a swinging arm.


Favorite item: the Clawshot, in both the incarnations I've played. What's that? I can grapple onto any vine-choked/mesh wall or target I see? I can stun enemies, take stuff off them, and/or pull them into sword-swinging range? Yes Please. Spider-Link only made it more fun.Yea, the Clawshot/Hookshot is pretty boss, I'll admit. Spider-Link is one of my favorite mechanics.

[Sipex]

Favourite Item? Any of the boomerangs for me (at least when I can get one), as it's always been my go-to sub weapon when I'm in a jam since the original LoZ.

However Hookshot is a close second, even when considering it often outmodes the boomerang, I just have a soft spot for the aussie themed weapon I guess.

I can't choose a favourite dungeon, there are far too many greats with nothing quite sitting above the rest.

Favourite Ganon/Ganondorf fight?
Well, if you interpret the end of Skyward Sword the way I did, then the duel with Demise is by far my favourite. While easier than the duel with Ganondorf in TP (once you have everything figured out) it just felt oh-so epic. Plus, lightning sky strikes? Yes please.

[Landis963]

In the Goron Temple, you are required to shoot a rope with your bow while upside-down and attached to an electromagnet on a swinging arm.

True, but the magnet arm is a) moving much slower and b) comes to a complete stop (IIRC) before it starts to move away again. The point is I think Clawshot + Grappling hook, at least in their WW incarnations, would be harder.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

True, but the magnet arm is a) moving much slower and b) comes to a complete stop (IIRC) before it starts to move away again. The point is I think Clawshot + Grappling hook, at least in their WW incarnations, would be harder.

You are also required to shoot moving targets from horseback (or from the canoe) at a couple of points in the game...

[Triaxx]

I have to defend the Ball and Chain a bit. Besides being absurdly fun to use, you know those bombs you worked so hard for? Yeah, the Ball and Chain does all but two things. It doesn't work underwater, and it can't kill Stalfos permanently. And that it's it. Otherwise it completely obsolete's bombs. Plus it one shots Dodongos, one-two combos the bouncing statue guys, if you're good enough you can also drop it on the backs of Helmasaurs from the front, and kill them in a single shot. Tektites? Just hold it spinning and it kills them as it goes around. Did I mention it deflects arrows if you walk forward holding it? It does. Also if it's spinning but only if it happens to be there at the time.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I have to defend the Ball and Chain a bit. Besides being absurdly fun to use, you know those bombs you worked so hard for? Yeah, the Ball and Chain does all but two things. It doesn't work underwater, and it can't kill Stalfos permanently. And that it's it. Otherwise it completely obsolete's bombs. Plus it one shots Dodongos, one-two combos the bouncing statue guys, if you're good enough you can also drop it on the backs of Helmasaurs from the front, and kill them in a single shot. Tektites? Just hold it spinning and it kills them as it goes around. Did I mention it deflects arrows if you walk forward holding it? It does. Also if it's spinning but only if it happens to be there at the time.

Bombs + Arrows can still reach things the ball and chain cannot, so it doesn't obviate bombs. Also faster rate of fire.

[Landis963]

You are also required to shoot moving targets from horseback (or from the canoe) at a couple of points in the game...

Technically you're not required to do the canoe minigame. (I don't think, it's been a while) Your point does stand however. I will leave the debate with one final point though: Shooting things on horseback is only required in a few places (the fight where King Bulblin kidnaps Colin for instance) while Grappling Hook plus Clawshot would by necessity be involved in many different places. At the very least it would be necessary for a few Pieces of Heart.

[Knaight]

Least favorite item: This one's tough. There's the Dominion Rod, which is annoying, useless, and annoyingly useless. There's the Dust Bellows, which is useless in combat. But I think my choice is the Mogma Mitts. You get it not once, but twice, it's useless in combat, and instead of Spider-Link you get to dig in a hole for a while. Compounding the annoyance is the tedium of the Moldorms, the underground mini-boss they keep throwing at you.
The Dust Bellows are far from useless. You can effectively pin a group of enemies with it, blow keese around when you're getting swarmed, spin those obnoxious beam blowers around, and generally be awesome.


I have to defend the Ball and Chain a bit. Besides being absurdly fun to use, you know those bombs you worked so hard for? Yeah, the Ball and Chain does all but two things. It doesn't work underwater, and it can't kill Stalfos permanently. And that it's it. Otherwise it completely obsolete's bombs. Plus it one shots Dodongos, one-two combos the bouncing statue guys, if you're good enough you can also drop it on the backs of Helmasaurs from the front, and kill them in a single shot. Tektites? Just hold it spinning and it kills them as it goes around. Did I mention it deflects arrows if you walk forward holding it? It does. Also if it's spinning but only if it happens to be there at the time.
You left out a few entertaining features. It basically creates a circle of death for incoming Keese, rats, and other small things, you can kill Helmasaurs by pulling it backwards from landing through them, which never gets old, and on top of all that it is effective in duels with Lizalfos and Dinofos, particularly if there is a ledge nearby. It's a bit slow, and it's very much a situational weapon, but when it works it is fantastic.

[Landis963]

The Dust Bellows are far from useless. You can effectively pin a group of enemies with it, blow keese around when you're getting swarmed, spin those obnoxious beam blowers around, and generally be awesome.

Maybe. I never found it useful to stall an enemy rather than just smack him with the sword. And keese are one-shots by the time you get the Dust Bellows anyway.

EDIT: That would be a good trick with the Beamos. I was wondering what those wings on the side of their heads were for.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

I'm stuck in a frustrating part of skyward sword, where I'm collecting the- 3 pieces of the triforcein Nayru's Desert, and that bit of information would seriously help me with the one room in the moving time shift stone cart with the beamoses.

[Knaight]

EDIT: That would be a good trick with the Beamos. I was wondering what those wings on the side of their heads were for.
It is extremely helpful. Shield countering works about as well, but you always lose shield durability doing it, plus that isn't an option if you are doing a no-shield run.


I'm stuck in a frustrating part of skyward sword, where I'm collecting the- 3 pieces of the triforcein Nayru's Desert, and that bit of information would seriously help me with the one room in the moving time shift stone cart with the beamoses.
Indeed. Just pick a wing by the side of their head, aim the dust bellows, and hold it down until they are spinning too much to actually do anything at all. If you're good with directional attacks you can usually finish them off before they are able to recover at all.

[Landis963]

It is extremely helpful. Shield countering works about as well, but you always lose shield durability doing it, plus that isn't an option if you are doing a no-shield run.

I just grabbed the regenning shield ASAP, then cut off the sections quickly as I could. It helps that the Beamos insists on charging up every time a section is cut off, which gives you an opening.

[INoKnowNames]

I'm not sure if that was on this forum, or maybe even this thread....

But I remember seeing someone discuss the idea that Ocarina of Time, if not maybe one of it's ancestors, could be considered -THE- first Sand Box Game.

Discuss.

Also, I agree with everyone about the utter awesomeness of Dual Clawshots. That's just unadulteratedly badass.

And I also agree that the Dominion Rod just... kinda sucked. It's just such a dinky item with no other utility...

Favorite Boss? Wind Waker Ganondorf Sword Duel of Awesomeness. Because that was badass. The only way to have possibly improved that fight would have been to make Zelda playable by a second player.

Think about it. You know you'd eat that up.

[Zevox]

I'm not sure if that was on this forum, or maybe even this thread....

But I remember seeing someone discuss the idea that Ocarina of Time, if not maybe one of it's ancestors, could be considered -THE- first Sand Box Game.

Discuss.
:smallconfused: How the heck does that work? Ocarina of Time was a quite linear game. You go through each dungeon and event in a particular order, with little to no ability to deviate from that (I think you can reverse the normal order of the Shadow and Spirit Temples, but that's it). There were random areas with loot scattered around and a handful of genuine side-quests, sure, but nowhere near what I'd associate with sandboxes. Just perfectly normal stuff for an adventure game.

Zevox

[INoKnowNames]

:smallconfused: How the heck does that work? Ocarina of Time was a quite linear game. You go through each dungeon and event in a particular order, with little to no ability to deviate from that (I think you can reverse the normal order of the Shadow and Spirit Temples, but that's it). There were random areas with loot scattered around and a handful of genuine side-quests, sure, but nowhere near what I'd associate with sandboxes. Just perfectly normal stuff for an adventure game.

Zevox

Dependin on how far you go into each mission temple, there were multiple ways to go through the game. I remember not actually ever getting into the Fire Temple until trying and failing the Shadow Temple one such run. The only constant, assuming no glitching, is that you will always start the first 3 dungeons in the same order, and then get the Hook Shot. That, and the Final Dungeon will be Ganon's Castle. But there's actually a little more ability to deviate from there, not to mention the side quests, which I've never actually completely finished personally. For it's time, it's a bit more advanced than one might assume.

Plus, screw cars, we get a bitchin' horse!

[Zevox]

Dependin on how far you go into each mission temple,
I assume you're referring to the possibility that you could enter a temple, get its new item, and then leave, no? Which in theory would allow completing them out-of-order since it's that item which is used to get around new obstacles outside the temple, opening the next path. But why would you do that? Those things are generally halfway through the temple or further anyway, so who would actually just stop and go elsewhere after getting the new item?

Zevox

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I assume you're referring to the possibility that you could enter a temple, get its new item, and then leave, no? Which in theory would allow completing them out-of-order since it's that item which is used to get around new obstacles outside the temple, opening the next path. But why would you do that? Those things are generally halfway through the temple or further anyway, so who would actually just stop and go elsewhere after getting the new item?

Zevox

Precisely. Plus, the first three dungeons you are kinda railroaded into. The first, because you're basically dropped right on top of it. The next, because you want to see how your buddies are doing, then you run into your old fiancée. Once you get to that point, you can skip around, but it's very difficult to justify going out of order before this point.

In other news, Link was a playah in OoT. There are the following Love Interests:

1) Saria, The Girl Next Door

2) Princess Zelda, the traditional crush

3) Princess Ruto, your betrothed

4) Malon, the Farmer's Daughter

5) Impa, the Amazonian (mostly in the scene pre-entry to the temple).

Also possibly including the gerudo boss chick, depending on how you view things

I mean, come on... talk about a gal in every town.

[JoshL]

Nabooru WAY more than Impa! To quote "If only I knew you would become such a handsome man, I should have kept the promise I made back then..."

Anyway, you could argue the original Zelda was a sandbox game. You could do almost any dungeon in any order you wanted to. Items made it easier if you went sequentially, but you don't have to.

[INoKnowNames]

I assume you're referring to the possibility that you could enter a temple, get its new item, and then leave, no? Which in theory would allow completing them out-of-order since it's that item which is used to get around new obstacles outside the temple, opening the next path. But why would you do that? Those things are generally halfway through the temple or further anyway, so who would actually just stop and go elsewhere after getting the new item?

Zevox

You can start at the Forest Temple, Fire Temple, or Ice Cavern without going anywhere else (at least once you get the HookShot, if I recall). Once you get the Long Shot or Epona, you should be able to clear the Gerudo Fortress. I'm pretty sure you can also go ahead and check out the Bottom of the Well around this time, too, though I forget if you're locked into adult form until you clear the Forest Temple or not, so that might be required. As might be at least the Fairy Bow + Ice Cavern to do the Water Temple, which was heck without a Tunic.

I do have it on good authority that it took me year to somehow figure out how to do the Fire Temple, and cleared a lot of the other stuff before it. Freaking never realised I was to bomb the gorgon for a while...


In other news, Link was a playah in OoT. There are the following Love Interests:

1) Saria, The Girl Next Door

2) Princess Zelda, the traditional crush

3) Princess Ruto, your betrothed

4) Malon, the Farmer's Daughter

5) Impa, the Amazonian (mostly in the scene pre-entry to the temple).

Also possibly including the gerudo boss chick, depending on how you view things

I mean, come on... talk about a gal in every town.

..... I predict an ovewhelming negative response to this, but HEY! LISTEN!


Nabooru WAY more than Impa! To quote "If only I knew you would become such a handsome man, I should have kept the promise I made back then..."

Ganondorf should have stayed being the pimp of the Gerudos, rather than trying to take over all of creation and pissing off everyone.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

You can start at the Forest Temple, Fire Temple, or Ice Cavern without going anywhere else (at least once you get the HookShot, if I recall). Once you get the Long Shot or Epona, you should be able to clear the Gerudo Fortress. I'm pretty sure you can also go ahead and check out the Bottom of the Well around this time, too, though I forget if you're locked into adult form until you clear the Forest Temple or not, so that might be required. As might be at least the Fairy Bow + Ice Cavern to do the Water Temple, which was heck without a Tunic.


None of that applies to sandboxing. As stated earlier.


..... I predict an ovewhelming negative response to this, but HEY! LISTEN!

I lol'd.

[Zevox]

Anyway, you could argue the original Zelda was a sandbox game. You could do almost any dungeon in any order you wanted to. Items made it easier if you went sequentially, but you don't have to.
Can't speak to that one, since I haven't played the first two Zelda games. And am unlikely to, since I've never much been impressed by the older ones.


You can start at the Forest Temple, Fire Temple, or Ice Cavern without going anywhere else (at least once you get the HookShot, if I recall). Once you get the Long Shot or Epona, you should be able to clear the Gerudo Fortress.
And good luck getting to or through those - especially Gerudo Fortress - without the bow from the Forest Temple to give you a good ranged weapon. The Longshot is also in the middle of the water temple, if you recall, and yeah, I'm pretty sure it was practically required for the Gerudo Fortress.


I'm pretty sure you can also go ahead and check out the Bottom of the Well around this time, too, though I forget if you're locked into adult form until you clear the Forest Temple or not, so that might be required.
It is. Sheik stands in front of the temple pedestal until you clear the Forest Temple, at which point she'll teach you the Requiem of Light and leave so that you can travel back in time if you wish.

Plus I'm pretty sure the Fire Arrow was required for some parts of later temples, which requires either completing the Water Temple or at least the Longshot (which is in the Water Temple anyway) and Scarecrow's Song.

Plus the game tells you where to look for each temple in a certain order, so if you haven't played the game before, you're practically guaranteed to do them that way.

Basically, unless you know the game inside and out, you're unlikely at best to do things any way but in the prescribed order. And even if you do know the game inside and out and can do it, why bother when it involves half-completing some temples and doesn't really change anything?

Zevox

[Sith_Happens]

In other news, Link was a playah in OoT. There are the following Love Interests:

1) Saria, The Girl Next Door

2) Princess Zelda, the traditional crush

3) Princess Ruto, your betrothed

4) Malon, the Farmer's Daughter

5) Impa, the Amazonian (mostly in the scene pre-entry to the temple).

Also possibly including the gerudo boss chick, depending on how you view things

I mean, come on... talk about a gal in every town.

Heck, even Navi crushes on Link for like half the game, and she's a ball of light with wings.

[Lentrax]

:smallconfused: How the heck does that work? Ocarina of Time was a quite linear game. You go through each dungeon and event in a particular order, with little to no ability to deviate from that (I think you can reverse the normal order of the Shadow and Spirit Temples, but that's it). There were random areas with loot scattered around and a handful of genuine side-quests, sure, but nowhere near what I'd associate with sandboxes. Just perfectly normal stuff for an adventure game.

Zevox

I have to throw in my 2 rupees here.

Look up the uber quest for OoT it has a very different order to run the temples through.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

I have to throw in my 2 rupees here.

Look up the uber quest for OoT it has a very different order to run the temples through.

Just because there are exploits to do things in different orders doesn't mean its a sandbox. It means people are creative in finding solutions to stick it to the intended order and do it differently.

I'd say zelda games could have led to the idea behind sandboxes, but that doesn't mean it is one.

However, I'm starting the uber challenge again...I've beaten it twice this way already, but I have a hankering for it again...

[Lentrax]

True, it does use exploits, but that does not make it any less of a challenge. Though trying to fight Bongo Bongo without the Lens of Truth is more than a bit difficult, uber quest or not.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

True, it does use exploits, but that does not make it any less of a challenge. Though trying to fight Bongo Bongo without the Lens of Truth is more than a bit difficult, uber quest or not.

No it doesn't make it less of a challenge, true. Bongo Bongo is difficult WITH them. XD

[Madara]

No it doesn't make it less of a challenge, true. Bongo Bongo is difficult WITH them. XD

One of my favorite bosses. How exactly do you fight him without the lens?

[Lentrax]

It is very rough. It takes a lot of arrows, a lot of patience, and more than a little skill. Your only saving grace is that he does become visible for the hitting with sword bit.

Otherwise, good luck! (you're gonna need it.

[Antonok]

Plus I'm pretty sure the Fire Arrow was required for some parts of later temples, which requires either completing the Water Temple or at least the Longshot (which is in the Water Temple anyway) and Scarecrow's Song.

Zevox

Din's Fire and normal arrows through lit torches. Fire Arrows aren't needed at all.

[Zevox]

Din's Fire and normal arrows through lit torches. Fire Arrows aren't needed at all.
Only works if there are torches around and within range of Din's Fire. I could swear there are points in either the Shadow or Spirit temples where you need fire, but this isn't the case. And I'm certain it's the case in the final dungeon, but by then it's a moot point since you need to have completed all five temples to even enter that.

Zevox

[Triaxx]

Can't actually think of any specific instances when you need fire arrows in either of those. Can't think of any to be honest... They make it EASIER, but not so much that they're invaluable.

Also, can't Din's Fire make his hands visible for a moment so you can see them?

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Are there any other games in the Zelda series where you can do something like the Uber quest, or is Ocarina the only one?

[Sipex]

There are no other games which do what Ocarina's Master Quest did (ie: completely changing the dungeon approach and structure) however, Skyward Sword has a mode called Hero Quest built into it.

You unlock it by beating the game once through, then you can play through what is essentially 'Skyward Sword Hard Mode' where the puzzles and challenges are the same, but monsters deal double damage and Link cannot find hearts out in the world to heal himself with (leaving you to resort to potions, or my favourite, stools)

[TheWombatOfDoom]

There are no other games which do what Ocarina's Master Quest did (ie: completely changing the dungeon approach and structure) however, Skyward Sword has a mode called Hero Quest built into it.

You unlock it by beating the game once through, then you can play through what is essentially 'Skyward Sword Hard Mode' where the puzzles and challenges are the same, but monsters deal double damage and Link cannot find hearts out in the world to heal himself with (leaving you to resort to potions, or my favourite, stools)

You misunderstand. Uber quest doesn't mean master quest. Uber quest...(though looking now its "uber challenge", my bad) is where you play ocarina of time using handicaps and exploits to make it more difficult. As in the order of the dungeons is significantly change (deku tree, jabu jabu, spirit temple kid, dodongo's cavern, Grow up, shadow temple, fire temple, so on...) and you can't use certain items - megaton hammer save for volvagia, shields in general (like likes and fire keese friends!) and so on. It's basically breaking the game and masacism all in one!

I wanted to know if anyone's been able to do that on any other game.

[Sipex]

Hrm, I can't think of anything quite like that, but you may be interested in the Majora's Mask 3 day challenge however.

Should be pretty easy to google, but essentially, after the initial 3 days of being a shrub and getting your ocarina back you restart and then beat the game before the moon falls and without turning back time.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

O.O I've never tried this. Is it indeed possible? I'd probably get to the stone tower and that would be it. That mother takes forever to get into.

[Sipex]

Oh yeah, it's possible just very difficult. You may want to start with watching a youtube playthrough.

It involves lots of running around, partially finishing temples and doing certain challenges in time.

For example, you NEED epona to beat the game, so you have to get your bow, get the goron's mask, get the bombs and then break into Lon-Lon and do that whole quest before even the first day is over.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

There's always the 'Three Heart Challenge', if you're feeling boss. Don't collect any hearts, not even from bosses.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

yep, that's part of the Uber, but i did that for fun after my first play through of most of them. save twilight...

[Yuki Akuma]

Plus I'm pretty sure the Fire Arrow was required for some parts of later temples, which requires either completing the Water Temple or at least the Longshot (which is in the Water Temple anyway) and Scarecrow's Song.

To get the Fire Arrows, you need to complete the Water Temple and shoot an arrow at the sun from the grave thing on the central island. That's all.

The Scarecrow's Song is never required for anything beyond a few heart pieces and I think a few Gold Skulltulas.

Not that the Fire Arrows are ever required either (although the shot in the Spirit Chamber of Ganon's Tower is pretty tricky without the Fire Arrows). You do need Din's Fire, though.

The game is obviously designed for you to require both the Fire Arrows and Din's Fire. But... you don't need the Fire Arrows, even if you don't take advantage of exploits.

[Zevox]

To get the Fire Arrows, you need to complete the Water Temple and shoot an arrow at the sun from the grave thing on the central island. That's all.

The Scarecrow's Song is never required for anything beyond a few heart pieces and I think a few Gold Skulltulas.
The Scarecrow's Song can be used to get the Fire Arrows before completing the Water Temple, I mean. There's a scarecrow summon point on the pillar with that grave. I'm pretty sure you need the Longshot to reach it, but with that you can get to that pillar and get the Fire Arrows without completing the Water Temple.

Zevox

[INoKnowNames]

You misunderstand. Uber quest doesn't mean master quest. Uber quest...(though looking now its "uber challenge", my bad) is where you play ocarina of time using handicaps and exploits to make it more difficult. As in the order of the dungeons is significantly change (deku tree, jabu jabu, spirit temple kid, dodongo's cavern, Grow up, shadow temple, fire temple, so on...) and you can't use certain items - megaton hammer save for volvagia, shields in general (like likes and fire keese friends!) and so on. It's basically breaking the game and masacism all in one!

I wanted to know if anyone's been able to do that on any other game.

Whoah whoah whoah, hold on a second: youcan do the Spirit Temple before becomingan adult!?! And you can do the Shadow Temple as your first adult temple?! I didn't know that...

Then again, someone abused glitches and beat Ganon in about 20 minutes, if I remember right, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised. I feel like a speed run doesn't count when you break the game in the process. Tool Assisted is one thing, but how an you really call it playing the game when you skip all but the intro and final cutscene essentially?

[Zevox]

Whoah whoah whoah, hold on a second: youcan do the Spirit Temple before becomingan adult!?! And you can do the Shadow Temple as your first adult temple?! I didn't know that...
Must be the exploits he mentioned. Normally it's impossible to reach the Spirit Temple as a kid without the appropriate song, which is gained as an adult. Same with reaching the Shadow Temple at all, and the event to gain that is triggered either by beating the three prior temples or possibly just the Water Temple (I've never tried to figure out which, I just do them in the expected order).

Zevox

[Triaxx]

Technically it's possible to reach the temple as child link, the trouble is getting past the gerudo fence to do it. (not to mention getting through the desert...)

[Lentrax]

The desert is really the hardest part. Especially since you are not allowed to have the Lens of Truth.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

So long as you get the chicken fence jump down, yeah. I have a much easier time with the desert, as I drew myself a map. :3

However, I generally like playing through the game normally!

[TheWombatOfDoom]

New Question: Zelda has often been known for it's easter eggs hidden within the game. What's your favorite?

[Sith_Happens]

New Question: Zelda has often been known for it's easter eggs hidden within the game. What's your favorite?

The Arwing in the Kokiri Forest.

[Landis963]

The flying Remlits in SS has to be mine.

[Lentrax]

Not much of an easter egg, but I enjoyed in Link's Awakening, if you steal from the store, everyone will call you THIEF, no matter what you named yourself.

[INoKnowNames]

Technically it's possible to reach the temple as child link, the trouble is getting past the gerudo fence to do it. (not to mention getting through the desert...)

.... how on -EARTH- do you get past the... you know, Giant Cliff of Doom? Or the rest of the freaking Gerudo Fortress?


The desert is really the hardest part. Especially since you are not allowed to have the Lens of Truth.

Eh, seems like trial and error until you figure out where which way is which...


So long as you get the chicken fence jump down, yeah. I have a much easier time with the desert, as I drew myself a map. :3

However, I generally like playing through the game normally!

I assumed you'd have todo something like that...


The Arwing in the Kokiri Forest.

That's my favorite, too. Because that's just plain -awesome-.


Not much of an easter egg, but I enjoyed in Link's Awakening, if you steal from the store, everyone will call you THIEF, no matter what you named yourself.

It's funny until you go back to that store and the store owner blows your ass up! :smalleek:

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Still quite fond of the guard throwing a bomb at you in the ocarina of time if you shoot the window in Princess Zelda's room (or the mario and rupees in the other one).

[Triaxx]

There's a bridge as child link and the fence is on the other side. I can't recall the exact method of getting through, but it's possible. Unless I'm completely mental and the trick is just play the song without learning it. Which I'm incapable of doing.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

There's a bridge as child link and the fence is on the other side. I can't recall the exact method of getting through, but it's possible. Unless I'm completely mental and the trick is just play the song without learning it. Which I'm incapable of doing.

Jump off the support on the far side holding the chicken, and then jumpslash over from off the chicken. Then get past the guards without them seeing you or they throw you back. It's much harder than it sounds.

[INoKnowNames]

Still quite fond of the guard throwing a bomb at you in the ocarina of time if you shoot the window in Princess Zelda's room (or the mario and rupees in the other one).

I ACTUALLY DIED TO THAT! :smallbiggrin:


There's a bridge as child link and the fence is on the other side. I can't recall the exact method of getting through, but it's possible. Unless I'm completely mental and the trick is just play the song without learning it. Which I'm incapable of doing.


Jump off the support on the far side holding the chicken, and then jumpslash over from off the chicken. Then get past the guards without them seeing you or they throw you back. It's much harder than it sounds.

...So, basically, The Legend of Metal Gear: Ocarina of Snake?

[Lentrax]

Yup. Exactly like that.

Link: tamer, rider, and torturer of Cuccos.

[JoshL]

The Arwing in the Kokiri Forest.

Very awesome that.

Not an easter egg at all, but I remember very clearly the first time that I encountered the money giving Moblin in the original game. I had no idea why he was there, other than his saying "it's a secret to everyone". My imagination went wild in a way that games hadn't inspired me before.

That's what I loved most about the NES era. Not full story telling, as in modern games, or an entire lack, as in older games. But often just enough story to get the imagination cooking. Great stuff.

[Yuki Akuma]

My favourite easter egg? Bombing Gossip Stones so they launch into the air like a rocket~

[TheWombatOfDoom]

I love the gossip stone reactions.

On another note! I WON THE MASTER SWORD IN A CONTEST! :3

[Landis963]

I love the gossip stone reactions.

On another note! I WON THE MASTER SWORD IN A CONTEST! :3

8O PIX. NAO. PLZ.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

8O PIX. NAO. PLZ.

When I get home. I have two. :smallcool:

[Triaxx]

Favorite easter egg. Hmm... that's a toughy. I'm going to go with the Mario Mask on the salesman's bag.

Anyone else ever beat the runner in OOT? I recall having done it once, but it's supposedly impossible. Yet... there's that memory of doing it. It's strange.

[Yuki Akuma]

Anyone else ever beat the runner in OOT? I recall having done it once, but it's supposedly impossible. Yet... there's that memory of doing it. It's strange.

That was either a dream or a lie you told so much you started to believe it.

It's impossible. You can teleport directly to the bridge and he'll still beat you by one second.

You can make the timer stay at 0:00 and he'll claim he got there a second faster than you.

The game has been data mined - there is no text for beating him, and no prize.

[Sith_Happens]

That was either a dream or a lie you told so much you started to believe it.

It's impossible. You can teleport directly to the bridge and he'll still beat you by one second.

You can make the timer stay at 0:00 and he'll claim he got there a second faster than you.

The game has been data mined - there is no text for beating him, and no prize.

I'm sensing a new Chuck Norris joke here...

[Triaxx]

Must be a dream, because I've never mentioned it. Of course, I might also be confusing it with another game.

Yes, thinking back it must have been a dream, since it comes from reaching the bridge by teleporting to the Forest temple, then jumping or hookshotting to the bridge and having him come running out of the tunnel.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Sorry I didn't get the pictures up yesterday. You'll get them soon!

Yeah, there is no way to beat the running adict of ocarina of time. In my youth I spent a whole day trying to do it different ways, and to my increasing frustration failing to.

Also, does anyone play Halo at all and use the forge? I'm remaking Ocarina of Time on Halo, because I can, and it's coming along fairly nicely. I'm soon going to be ready for beginning to film a machinima playthrough, where I pretend to play the game by filming it in Reach. I'm hoping halo 4 offers a desert for gerudo fortress, and maybe some others.

So far I've completed:
Kokiri Forest (inside of buildings in one file and the area itself on another)
Lost Woods
Hyrule field (WIP)
B1 of Deku tree dungeon
Deku Tree Exterior
Hyrule Market Town (WIP)

It may not sound like much progress, but it's a lot of work. :smallsmile:

[INoKnowNames]

Also, does anyone play Halo at all and use the forge? I'm remaking Ocarina of Time on Halo, because I can, and it's coming along fairly nicely. I'm soon going to be ready for beginning to film a machinima playthrough, where I pretend to play the game by filming it in Reach. I'm hoping halo 4 offers a desert for gerudo fortress, and maybe some others.

So far I've completed:
Kokiri Forest (inside of buildings in one file and the area itself on another)
Lost Woods
Hyrule field (WIP)
B1 of Deku tree dungeon
Deku Tree Exterior
Hyrule Market Town (WIP)

It may not sound like much progress, but it's a lot of work. :smallsmile:

I could have sworn I saw a video somewhat based on this, actually... the only thing I remember was that it was still based on Halo heavily, but you could tell it was being influenced by Ocarina of Time.

That, and that it was glorious...

[Sith_Happens]

On that note, I assume that someone has long since made a completely faithful representation of at least one version of Hyrule in Minecraft?

[TheWombatOfDoom]

On that note, I assume that someone has long since made a completely faithful representation of at least one version of Hyrule in Minecraft?

RedAshMason is doing a great job, but he isn't done yet.

http://www.youtube.com/user/RedAshMason

And one of my maps got featured on youtube when I turned it into a fighting map for someone. That's not my intention over all, but it shows you some of the features of the map. Check it out! :smallsmile:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Uwl0u04p5c&list=FLhWHDc5itmQ9mYg4KfMFJ1w&index=2&feature=plpp_video

[ShneekeyTheLost]

On that note, I assume that someone has long since made a completely faithful representation of at least one version of Hyrule in Minecraft?

There's also an attempt to make old-school Everquest on Minecraft. So far, I've seen Qeynos and several of the Freeport zones. Someone also did Cabilis.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

There's also an attempt to make old-school Everquest on Minecraft. So far, I've seen Qeynos and several of the Freeport zones. Someone also did Cabilis.

Yeah, I saw that too. Looked pretty sweet the parts I saw. : )

[JoshL]

My current evening's entertainment: playing through Zelda fangames and romhacks. On the second quest of Zelda Outlands right now (which is pretty well done). Any others I should hit next and/or avoid?

[ShneekeyTheLost]

My current evening's entertainment: playing through Zelda fangames and romhacks. On the second quest of Zelda Outlands right now (which is pretty well done). Any others I should hit next and/or avoid?

Zelda II: Shadow of Night seems like a suitably Nintendo Hard version of one of my less favorite offerings from the Zelda series, and made it actually entertaining.

You will probably want to do a bit of level grinding at first, though. Everything is a lot harder to kill, and bosses are completely immune to stun.

[Sipex]

There are zelda romhacks? Good ones?

Why did I not know of this sooner?!

[Lentrax]

Because you know not of the power of almighty Google?

Or were just looking in the wrong place.

[Sipex]

Simply because didn't occur to me that it might actually be worth looking into.

[Lentrax]

Well, there is that as well, I suppose...

[JoshL]

To be fair, lots of romhacks are pretty bad. I appreciate the effort, but, well, there's a reason game designers get paid what they do. But the Zelda 1 Outlands hack is solid. The same team did a Link To The Past hack, which I will try out after the Z2 hack that ShneekeyTheLost recommended. There's an Ocarina hack out there too I'm looking forward to trying...this is like reliving the past, one game at a time!

[TheWombatOfDoom]

To be fair, lots of romhacks are pretty bad. I appreciate the effort, but, well, there's a reason game designers get paid what they do. But the Zelda 1 Outlands hack is solid. The same team did a Link To The Past hack, which I will try out after the Z2 hack that ShneekeyTheLost recommended. There's an Ocarina hack out there too I'm looking forward to trying...this is like reliving the past, one game at a time!

What's the Ocarina hack entail?

[JoshL]

Apparently, all new dungeons, new story, new cutscenes, the works. It's called "Zelda's Birthday" to assist your google-ing (I'm at work and most video game sites are on the other side of the firewall)

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Breathing life into this thread again because its a good one. When last we left off we were talking about modified games...

For the new topic: What do you want Nintendo to do for then new Zelda game?

[Landis963]

I really don't care what they do, as long as they use the game pad to its fullest extent. Now as to what "using the game pad to its fullest" actually means, well, that depends on the the game itself. Does that mean writing notes on the game pad a la Phantom Hourglass (Possibly, but IMO there's more to it than that)? Does that mean firing the bow through the game pad a la the Nintendo Land minigame (Unlikely, IMO, but it's a possibility)? Does that mean controlling the Fairy companion du jour through the game pad, and what does that entail (Personally, if they take this route, I'm hoping for an extra perspective from said fairy-du-jour, plus possibly the ability to screw with and stagger the enemies they're targeting for Link)? All/Any of the above? Who knows?

[Sipex]

I definitely want to see them make good use out of the game pad without going the gimmicky route. We don't need new bow controls or a separate inventory screen (although if it can be both an inventory screen and used in an innovative way, I'd be up for that), what we need is a new experience added to the Zelda feel and formula we all know and love.

edit: Following your example, using it to control your companion/fairy would be a great asset.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

What about a lense of truth deal, where you hold the screen up the screen and see invisible things? (not really sure how the game pad works)

[Sipex]

That's a pretty interesting idea, and based on some of the trailers we've seen, I believe the game pad does have that capability.