OOTS #859 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[Great Dane]

Time to google "Holy". Nice update. :D

[Faramir]

Go Roy! Let's hear it for high INT scores...

Of course the real question is how much credit Elan's dad gives to Elan for this plan.

[Amidus Drexel]

Splendidly done.

[Kish]

It's Holy Word, Durkon's tried to use it a couple times.

Kilkil is nongood, what a shock. Tarquin...

Malack is remaining ambiguous levelwise, because he's not hit by the Word. Qaar avoided getting dismissed. Sabine is likely to be sent to another plane, and...

If Tarquin is actually affected by the Word, instead of just annoyed, it will be proof that he is in fact no higher level than Durkon.

[Topus]

This brings me memory of my Earth Cleric in Dark Sun who often used the "ignore earth element" ability to pass through walls.
Good point for the underrated Durkon and his Holy Word ;)

[Eldan]

Actually, Malack is also ambiguous alignmentwise. Do we know for certain that he is evil? I always thought he might be Lawful Neutral.

[luagha]

Ah, beautiful. And it's a spell that Durkon almost never gets to use because of Belkar. (And possibly Haley, if she's too close to Neutral at the moment.)


"Gargantuan. What a great word. I so rarely get to use it in a sentence."

[Winter]

Nice. ;)

And now, give us a Blade Barrier in the smoke, Durkon. :smallcool:

[Dr.Epic]

What spell did Durkon use to do that?

Also, how don't you hear the dwarf in full plate?

[jimmy81]

Awesome comic as always. Thanks Rich!

[Daraniya]

Assuming she doesn't make her Will Save... at a -4 no less...

[Archaicwonder]

Durkon Holy Word on a tee shirt! PLEASE?

Great plan OotS!

[blackspeeker]

It's Holy Word, Durkon's tried to use it a couple times.

Kilkil is nongood, what a shock. Tarquin...

Malack is remaining ambiguous levelwise, because he's not hit by the Word. Qaar avoided getting dismissed. Sabine is likely to be sent to another plane, and...

If Tarquin is actually affected by the Word, instead of just annoyed, it will be proof that he is in fact no higher level than Durkon.

Thank you, I pretty much came straight here to ask. Like I'm sure more will.

[Bulldog Psion]

Here's the link as a public service:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/holyWord.htm

Dang, but it's good to see the Order with a decent plan. And it looks like Tarquin is no higher level than Durkon -- I'm surprised.

[Psyren]

In OotSland, it appears the word in Holy Word (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/holyWord.htm) is actually "Holy."

I'm reminded of the flavor text from Lightning Blast - "Those who fear the darkness have not seen what the Light can do." :smallamused:

PLEASE banish Sabine.

[Zolthux]

Brilliant.

[oppyu]

Woah. Ok, I think with that 'Holy Word' depiction, this comic no longer applies as a 'stick comic'. Seriously cool stuff there.

[LordRahl6]

Excellent planning indeed.:smallbiggrin: Looks like Haley had some cloudlike spell(or spell-like ability) on the arrow, and then Durkon used the distraction and effects it created to use a teleportation spell, similar to Shadow Step to jump into their midst. The "Light" ending to top it off was the perfect ending.:smallcool:

Now, my question is if it was only a cloud, why couldn't Zzi'Drtt see?:smallconfused:

[Winter]

Assuming she doesn't make her Will Save... at a -4 no less...

I find it a bit boring if Durkon throws out a Holy World against an equal-level party (meaning Nale and that Dark elf as Anti-Order are probably only deafened, Kilkil pssibly deaf and blind (he's no adventurer and we see he's not dead), Tarquin stays unaffected) and the outsider makes her saving throw.

My estimate is the above + Sabine being banished.

Lucky Qarr. On the other hand: Holy Word explicitly takes Outsiders to their home plane regardless of if they can hear the spell or not. So does Rich rule that this spread manages to get through the iron door and catches Qarr as well?

[Douglas]

What spell did Durkon use to do that?

Also, how don't you hear the dwarf in full plate?
Holy Word (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/holyWord.htm).

They didn't hear him because he literally came through the wall rather than trying to sneak past, probably using Meld Into Stone (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/meldIntoStone.htm).

[Winter]

Excellent planning indeed.:smallbiggrin: Looks like Haley had some cloudlike spell(or spell-like ability) on the arrow,

Tarquin says what it is: A smokestick. Basic adventuring gear.

[Chambers]

Excellent. Nicely done.

[Kish]

Actually, Malack is also ambiguous alignmentwise. Do we know for certain that he is evil? I always thought he might be Lawful Neutral.
It doesn't matter (nor do we know that Kilkil isn't Something Neutral just because he's obviously bothered by the Word). Holy Word doesn't check for evil, it checks for nongood.

[TheRiov]

Deaf+Blinded at a minimum for most the Guild. Ouch. Nicely played.

[pendell]

Wait, what ? The OOTS is fighting intelligently, for a change?

Not bad. Not bad at all.

So that's Holy Word (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/holyWord.htm). Must be "just the spell for tha, Lad" we saw discussed earlier.

Still, I would be very surprised if the LG is low-level compared to Durkon, so the most likely result is no-save deafening. Apart from Tarquin, of course, who doubtless has magic items up the wazoo which protect him from anything and everything. Sort of like Batman in the old Adam West show. What tactical value does that have ...?

ETA: Okay, deafening has the following tactical effects:



A deafened character cannot hear. She takes a -4 penalty on initiative checks, automatically fails Listen checks, and has a 20% chance of spell failure when casting spells with verbal components. Characters who remain deafened for a long time grow accustomed to these drawbacks and can overcome some of them.


So it's essentially a debuff. Not decisive in itself, but -4 initiative and 20% spell failure is going to be very helpful indeed. And I see Malack has been cut off for the rest of the party, evening the odds a bit since V is also hors de combat. So a good start.

E again to add: Oh, Holy Word destroys undead of significantly lower level. Were the mummies in range of that word? Then that's another chunk of combat power removed from the Linear Guild. Nice!

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Mantine]

Woah.
OOTS kicking a worthy foe's ass for the first time since.... ever?
Without some suddenly unexpected overturn of the tables, but solely due to their own battle prowess?

Keep rocking, guys. This is just too awesome to stop here.

[Psyren]

It's Holy Word, Durkon's tried to use it a couple times.

Yep - he tried here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0556.html) and here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0806.html). Any other occasions?

[Bulldog Psion]

Tarquin says what it is: A smokestick. Basic adventuring gear.

Actually, Nale says what it is. But it is indeed basic adventuring gear.

[Voyager]

Here's the link as a public service:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/holyWord.htm

Dang, but it's good to see the Order with a decent plan. And it looks like Tarquin is no higher level than Durkon -- I'm surprised.

He could be acting.

In fact, given all of the feats he's been using, and their pre-reqs, I would expect he is rather highly uplevel of the OOTS.

[FolcoTook]

Blade Barrier would be good. A higher level summon monster could also be useful.

[Douglas]

Now, my question is if it was only a cloud, why couldn't Zzi'Drtt see?:smallconfused:
Z can see in darkness. Haley's arrow had a smokestick, which produces an actual obstruction to vision rather than merely a lack of light.

[Marlowe]

This is the absolute low point of Nale's career thus far. Right in front of Father.

[Admiral]

Now, my question is if it was only a cloud, why couldn't Zzi'Drtt see?:smallconfused:

A smokestick (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Smokestick) has an effect treated as a Fog Cloud (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Fog_Cloud), which states that it "obscures all sight, including darkvision, beyond 5 feet" (true of most similar spells).

[Dr.Epic]

Holy Word (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/holyWord.htm).

I meant how did he just appear there.


They didn't hear him because he literally came through the wall rather than trying to sneak past, probably using Meld Into Stone (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/meldIntoStone.htm).

Even so, he would still make noise. Yeah, he didn't have to walk all that way so they wouldn't have as long to hear him, but still - armor's loud and how don't you hear the armor? Remember this strip? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0024.html) Those goblins heard him all the way away.

[Clertar]

Holy ***! Nice holy word :smallbiggrin:

[FAD!]

New comic!!!


Here's the link as a public service:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/holyWord.htm

Nice, thanks. I know Final Fantasy, so I thought it just did a lot of damage. :smallbiggrin:


Brilliant.

Radiant. Sparkling. Effulgent! :smallcool:

... I'll think that's enough.

[Tyrmatt]

Assuming the Thor of the Stickverse has access to similar domains as the D&D published ones, Durkon might have used this as his domain slot, granting him a nice +1 CL to all good type spells as per the granted power of the good domain.

Might explain why Tarquin is affected and the overall effect seems greater.

EDIT: Just checked the Class and Level thread and its pretty much gospel that Durkon has the Good domain as he casts Holy Smite, for which the good domain is a requirement.

[Winter]

What tactical value does that have ...?

It's awesome in this situation. Without listening in the thick smoke, everyone deaf is basically blind as well as deaf and won't even know what's going on if the screaming starts. Needless to say that they cannot give or receive and orders.
A -4 to Initiative is nice, but probably makes no big difference beyond the first combat round (but it still makes one).
On top of that, Nale and Zz'dtri have a 20% failure chance on their spells.

The tactic is sound and depending what comes next the Order might have a good headstart.

On top of that, the Holy Word instantly took out Sabine.

Given the Order did not know Nale recruited two more high level characters but had to assume a few of the new recruits were goons that are even more affected by the spell, the choice was very sound.

I also guess next is Malak who'll stone-shape around his metal barrier.

A quite kickass followup by Durkon would be Holy Smite. Or the Blade Barrier mentioned above.

[Gift Jeraff]

This is why Durkon is awesome. Lame that Tarquin the D-bag is just laughing off the last strip and seemingly resisting Holy Word, though I figured the latter would happen. ib4 another Tarquin debate

Shojld be interesting seeing what Malack does (Qarr would be able to teleport out of harm's way). Speaking of which, it's a mistake, but Qarr's speech balloon looks pretty cool without outlines.

[Incom]

Thanks for the fast update Giant.

I like how Malack and Qarr are still cut off. Wonder what's going to go on behind that trap...

[Thalnawr]

Even so, he would still make noise. Yeah, he didn't have to walk all that way so they wouldn't have as long to hear him, but still - armor's loud and how don't you hear the armor? Remember this strip? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0024.html) Those goblins heard him all the way away.
He probably just cast the spell on the same round as he popped out of the wall, since it just takes a standard action. Even if they could hear the armor, they don't get to interrupt his round of actions till after he's finished.

[Topus]

Uhm, but Tarquin doesn't seem to be affected to me. He doesn't even let the axe. It seems he is simply taking the wave of "holyness" but without drawbacks.

[Gogmagog]

That was the most completely satisfying update I've seen in years :smallcool:

[Douglas]

Even so, he would still make noise. Yeah, he didn't have to walk all that way so they wouldn't have as long to hear him, but still - armor's loud and how don't you hear the armor? Remember this strip? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0024.html) Those goblins heard him all the way away.
They were all highly distracted and he barely had to move at all, just a few feet. At most it was a single 5' step, possibly not even that with the spell moving for him, and he was trying to be quiet while everyone who might have heard him was distracted, unable to see, and probably expecting any noise from anything but traps to be either far away or from each other, and they only had a fraction of a round to hear him.

In the strip you linked, he was walking at full speed, probably not actually working at being quiet, and the goblins who heard him were alert, undistracted, and able to use their full senses, he was where they might have expected such sounds to come from, and they probably had several minutes to notice it.

[PonceAlyosha]

Thanks for the fast update Giant.

I like how Malack and Qarr are still cut off. Wonder what's going to go on behind that trap...

Given that they are the two LG members most likely to try to work things out with discussion, I imagine they are currently getting the snot pummeled out of them.

[Toxic Avenger]

If Tarquin is actually affected by the Word, instead of just annoyed, it will be proof that he is in fact no higher level than Durkon.If Durkon has managed to find a Bead of Karma (from a Strand of Prayer Beads (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#strandofPrayerBeads)), then even Tarquin might actually be affected by the Holy Word.

[dps]

Lucky Qarr. On the other hand: Holy Word explicitly takes Outsiders to their home plane regardless of if they can hear the spell or not. So does Rich rule that this spread manages to get through the iron door and catches Qarr as well?

It's possible that he's beyond the 40' radius of the spell. It kind of looks like the Guild kept moving forward even through the cloud, so he and Malack may have dropped back a good bit.

[Anarion]

This was a spectacular comic. The effect of showing each member of the linear guild in increasing pain as holy word effect blows outward was really cool.

I love basic adventuring gear. That one smokestick did so much.


Durkon Holy Word on a tee shirt! PLEASE?


I would buy this.


This is the absolute low point of Nale's career thus far. Right in front of Father.

This is close, but I don't think it's the absolute low point. That honor probably remains with having to do 40 interviews for new mages, including the one who Must Not Be Toilet-Trained. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0254.html)

[LordRahl6]

A smokestick (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Smokestick) has an effect treated as a Fog Cloud (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Fog_Cloud), which states that it "obscures all sight, including darkvision, beyond 5 feet" (true of most similar spells).

Thanks for the insight, Admiral. I know there so few things that block darkvision that it didn't make much sense to me.:smallwink:

[t209]

The last strip finally answered the question of "what is equivalent of Flashbang grenade in D&D?"
How many of you have tried or planned to use "Holy Word" and go in for a kill on stunned opponents (and probable survivor since Durkon is above level 10)?

[ThePhantasm]

Awesome strip! Thanks, Giant!

I knew I was right that the Order had a good ambush plan in place, and not just "attack your evil opposite one on one."

[JSSheridan]

Thanks Giant!

Could Sabine have the Native subtype since she and Nale are so attached?

And while we're at it, how about Celia?

[Cynric]

Truly epic.

And I love the effect in the last panel. You really get the sense of pain on a (for lack of a better word) spiritual level.

Also, is Tarquin effected? I can't tell 'cos Kilkil is in the way of his... er... "light echoes". He just seems to be bracing against it. Or is that enough to show impact?

[ghoul-n]

Magnificent.

[Psyren]

@ stealth argument - how do we know he wasn't standing there the whole time? Meld Into Stone doesn't offer any kind of spot check or other way of determining what the caster truly is. It also isn't illusory so T's True Seeing wouldn't work. D is literally inside the wall, and he can explicitly hear the LG clomping around outside his hidey-hole like a herd of elephants.

[ghoul-n]

Also, is Tarquin effected?

He's on his knee atm.

[The Dark Fiddler]

Assuming the Thor of the Stickverse has access to similar domains as the D&D published ones, Durkon might have used this as his domain slot, granting him a nice +1 CL to all good type spells as per the granted power of the good domain.

Might explain why Tarquin is affected and the overall effect seems greater.

EDIT: Just checked the Class and Level thread and its pretty much gospel that Durkon has the Good domain as he casts Holy Smite, for which the good domain is a requirement.

Ah, with that information, this spell goes from a tactically sound but not unsurpassed option to a brilliant choice. Since the Linear Guild is likely roughly on par with the OotS on levels, the spell would normally just deafen them (and banish Sabine), but that boost likely pushes them into the Caster Level -1 category, meaning they're also blinded. Complete devastation for them.


Even so, he would still make noise. Yeah, he didn't have to walk all that way so they wouldn't have as long to hear him, but still - armor's loud and how don't you hear the armor? Remember this strip? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0024.html) Those goblins heard him all the way away.

How much noise does armor make when it's traveling THROUGH a wall?


Lucky Qarr. On the other hand: Holy Word explicitly takes Outsiders to their home plane regardless of if they can hear the spell or not. So does Rich rule that this spread manages to get through the iron door and catches Qarr as well?

The wall would block line of effect, so they're not in the area of the spell, regardless of how close they are to Durkon.

[HandofShadows]

OWNED. :smallcool: A solid plan got pulled off there. Malack and the Imp are out of the fight for the moment. Now did the Order set it up so Malack would not be caught with the rest of the Guild or was it just (good) luck? If the rest of the Guild is taken down, will Malack really care all that much?

[Recurve]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/holyWord.htm


Creatures whose HD exceed your caster level are unaffected by holy word.

Malack, Tarquin and possibly others would just ignore it instead of being taken aback.


Furthermore, if you are on your home plane when you cast this spell, nongood extraplanar creatures within the area are instantly banished back to their home planes. Creatures so banished cannot return for at least 24 hours. This effect takes place regardless of whether the creatures hear the holy word. The banishment effect allows a Will save (at a -4 penalty) to negate.

Sabine would be banished if she failed her save.

[Tundar]

That was very sneaky, especially for a dwarf.

And clever too!!

[rewinn]

Getting knocked around like that, will Kilkil lose his glasses?

(Those of us who are nearsighted will appreciate how important this it!)

[Mike Havran]

Really nice follow-up on the Order's part. To me, it looks like this now:

Malack and Qarr - probably not in the area of spell, therefore unaffected, but cut off from the battlefield.

Tarquin - most likely unaffected.

Kilkil - either paralyzed, or unaffected. I hope for the latter.

Nale and Z - probably deafened.

Sabine - maybe banished.

My opinion on what will happen next: Tarquin realises stuff has gone serious and starts fighting for real. He kills Durkon.

[Agi Hammerthief]

so now they are standing in Holy Smoke?

[Jivundus]

so now they are standing in Holy Smoke?

-groans inwardly-

[thumbprince]

Malak's reaction is straight out of Watchmen issue 1.

[KinnetDynamon]

Bag of tricks time? Since they used a smokestick, after all. Maybe for purposes of flanking?

Edit: Even though Qarr did not hear the Holy Word, he still might get banished, if I read the spell correctly. He only has to be within 40 ft, assuming the door doesn't somehow block the spell effect.

[Dr.Epic]

He probably just cast the spell on the same round as he popped out of the wall, since it just takes a standard action. Even if they could hear the armor, they don't get to interrupt his round of actions till after he's finished.

I know they wouldn't have time to react, but still, they don't appear to hear him. Also, that image of Durkon in the last panel should be a meme. Just him blasting away whatever or whoever.

[Kish]

Getting knocked around like that, will Kilkil lose his glasses?

(Those of us who are nearsighted will appreciate how important this it!)
Unless Kilkil is about to reveal that he's actually a level higher than Durkon or secretly Good, it's not going to matter because he's now blind or possibly--Tarquin's secretary could easily be a sixth-level expert--dead.

[RMS Oceanic]

It's fun that it's the loud clanky Dwarf who gets the opening (harmful) shot in the ambush.

[Hypothetical]

How much noise does armor make when it's traveling THROUGH a wall?



Don't forget, they've been to several towns since the "Clanking Dwarf" strip. :durkon: would have been silly not to have purchased at least one Cat's Grace potion after that mess.

[Gashad]

Kilkil - either paralyzed, or unaffected. I hope for the latter.
.

Notice how Kilkils arms are in the same position as he is pushed back by the spell-for me this strongly suggests paralysis.

[Xelbiuj]

In their 3'd images;

Nale looks blinded.
Sabine looks malformed - probably being banished.
Tarquin is grabbing his head - deaf.
Z has his eye's closed, blinded too.
Can't tell with the admin, being knocked upside down certainly can't be good.

Excellent title, "Smoked".
As in smoke in the area and utterly beaten.

10/10

[orrion]

Really nice follow-up on the Order's part. To me, it looks like this now:

Malack and Qarr - probably not in the area of spell, therefore unaffected, but cut off from the battlefield.

Tarquin - most likely unaffected.

Kilkil - either paralyzed, or unaffected. I hope for the latter.

Nale and Z - probably deafened.

Sabine - maybe banished.

My opinion on what will happen next: Tarquin realises stuff has gone serious and starts fighting for real. He kills Durkon.

Tarquin looks affected to me. Maybe only deafened, given that his hand looks to be around his ear area.

Kilkil is definitely affected. He went flying. That little bit of him visible in the second echo looks as if he's paralyzed.

Everyone else looks to be deafened and blinded.

Kilkil is definitely affected. The guy went flying.

[Winter]

Could Sabine have the Native subtype since she and Nale are so attached?

No. She's over 2000 years old and knows Nale for barely... true? Also her actual feeling for him is still somewhat muddy; she also has strong ties into her homeplane.
So if what you propose is even possible, I strongly doubt we see it here.


And while we're at it, how about Celia?

Same. She's native from another plane. She hang around a bit on the prime material plane and has a boytoy on it but I strongly doubt that can unmake what you are.

And as I said, I'm rather convinced that the change to "native" outsider for an "outside" outsider is actually impossible (and if it is possible here and there, it must be a central element of the main plot).

[Mike Havran]

Unless Kilkil is about to reveal that he's actually a level higher than Durkon or secretly Good, it's not going to matter because he's now blind or possibly--Tarquin's secretary could easily be a sixth-level expert--dead.

He doesn't have X in the eyes in the "third" display, when effects are already in place. Paralysis is likely.

[Psyren]

Even so, he would still make noise. Yeah, he didn't have to walk all that way so they wouldn't have as long to hear him, but still - armor's loud and how don't you hear the armor? Remember this strip? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0024.html) Those goblins heard him all the way away.

Again - why do you think he walked anywhere? The Order was ahead of the LG; he could have been standing in that part of the wall the whole time, waiting for the baddies to cluster around him.

Note also that Haley knew exactly when to fire her smoke arrow - i.e. when they were next to D's hiding spot.

[Adeptus]

NICE! :durkon:<3

[Winter]

He doesn't have X in eyes in the "third" display, when effects are already in place. Paralysis is likely.

It seems this comic does not show the effects of the spell but only the casting (therefore "Tarquin seems affected"). No one seems to have any visual change (like black eyes or whatever). Given how Tarquin performed in the fight I find it highly unlikely he is level 16 or lower, so as it stands now, at least I am convinced that nothing we saw reflects what the spell actually did to any given person.
We'll have to wait another few days to see the results.

[Faramir]

Here's the link as a public service:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/holyWord.htm

Dang, but it's good to see the Order with a decent plan. And it looks like Tarquin is no higher level than Durkon -- I'm surprised.

A lot of comic potential for the deafening effect.

I'm betting on Tarquin being unaffected.

[Smolder]

In OotSland, it appears the word in Holy Word (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/holyWord.htm) is actually "Holy."

Yes, the holy world is actually "holy" but you have to say it in the holy font.

[willpell]

I love how laconically Malack reacts to the wall sliding into place; gloriously exemplifies "longtime veteran", "worshipper of inevitability", and "reptile" all at the same time.

And of course Tarquin rubbing salt in Nale's wounds in panel 5 and "Shut up, shut up, I'm thinking!" as a response is pure perfection. (In retrospect, Nale probably gets his Wiley Coyote brand of villainy from an attempt to impress his brilliantly meglomaniacal father, only to fail utterly because he doesn't comprehend that it isn't just Thog who's elegant in simplicity.)

[Zubrowka74]

At last Durkon gets to act like a real Tier 1 class.

So awesome!

[Faramir]

Again - why do you think he walked anywhere? The Order was ahead of the LG; he could have been standing in that part of the wall the whole time, waiting for the baddies to cluster around him.

Note also that Haley knew exactly when to fire her smoke arrow - i.e. when they were next to D's hiding spot.

Exactly. It seemed pretty obvious they were setting an ambush. I'm guessing they also took advantage of the trap positioning when deciding where to set it.

[FAD!]

Great design, that trap that hit Nale!

How did Durkon get there? Spell? Scroll?

[Mike Havran]

Tarquin looks affected to me. Maybe only deafened, given that his hand looks to be around his ear area.

Kilkil is definitely affected. He went flying. That little bit of him visible in the second echo looks as if he's paralyzed.

Everyone else looks to be deafened and blinded.

Kilkil is definitely affected. The guy went flying.

Tarquin's stance did not change at all during the progression of the spell. I think his posture is a reflex obtained from experience, but the Word did not affect him.

If Nale and Z were also blinded, they would have used their hands to cover their eyes in the first place. The fact they both went for their ears suggests they are only deafened.

[Barabbas]

I appreciate the ambiguity permitted by this turn of events; Durkon and Malack get along well, and when Sabine's pointed tail set off the door-closing trap, it is unclear whether or not the Order of the Stick deliberately spared him. This potentially gives the Order a chance to talk to Malack on friendly terms. Further, it allows his little red familiar some likely-plot-central screen time.

As an aside, were I an imp, at this time I would be readying my criticisms of dearest Suvie to turn his friends against the elf. Nothing is more satisfying than presenting an awful truth with vile cackling that the good guys have to believe.

[Gnoman]

Nale in particular is in trouble. That trap hurt him, possible a good deal. It's going to be hard for him to heal now, with spells unreliable, and he'll be fighting at a significant tactical advantage against the rest of the order. This may be the end for him.

[elros]

another great strip. My favorite is how Malack and Qaar are protected behind the steel door. If you check the previous strip, you can even see the door was included in it, too!
I also like how Tarquin will allow Nale to screw up, just to make a point. Classic.
It will be interesting to see how each member of the linear guild compares to Durkon's level.

[Xelbiuj]

All of the 1 word spells are like that, just like SHOUT!

[Omergideon]

Oh Durkon, how do I love thee.

Now this is indeed a good strip. The follow on to last time, and follow on well it does. It shows interesting moments, good fast paced action and even a bit of character for Nale here, a character who I think gets a short shrift a bit too often. It also seems to be able to set up a few essential tension moments without them seeming massively contrived. Good moments there. However on to more details.

The Good:
1) Always start with the art, and here is as good a place as any to do so. There are a few specific panels with good quality images. The art of Durkon's walking through the wall, the Holy Word image, the billowing smoke, the buzzsaw trap and more. Everything is well drawn and good looking, especially the doublt image effect of the Holy Word. But more than this the overall structure is birlliant.
2) And to give this element it's due the first few panels are a wonderul structure of confusion and movement. Switching straight from Nale's trap escape to Malack being cut off was great for the pacing. As well once it happened things slow down and we get a slow build of tension with good wide panels to produce a strong moment.
3) Durkon is being badass here. I must praise this as it really does seem to hammer home the image of the order being competent. Which is good. This is stage 2 of what is obviously a multi stage plan. Now V is undoubtably gonna arrive at some point, and the isolation of Malack is probably going to matter. But twice now the order have shown intelligence and competence. As well as a bit of clever "out of the box" thinking, which they needed. It helps when our heroes look useful and smart. Even Tarquin has been staggered by the spell :smallcool:
4) And to give a quick shout out to Nale here, I like what we see of his leadership here. Yes the order outhink him, and he does start being short tempered/not thinking. But even then his recognition of what the trap was, his run down of their situation and his taking charge/orders is quite good. Nale seems to be stepping up a bit more here. It is a bit of character development that I do not doubt will contribute to the growing intra-party conflict for the LG. The combination of frustration and intellect is a good thought.

The Bad;
1) Whilst I understand the decision, and it works, the contrived way that Malack is specifically cut off from the rest of the LG is a small nitpick. It has a small sense of "must happen for my plot to work....i.e. so we don't twig who Tarquin is". Not a huge problem, but a minor one.


So only a small nitpick and a lot of good moments. There was action, character development and good technical skill on show. Overall this is **** by my eyes. I am eagerly looking forward to see what happens next time.

[Finagle]

40 foot radius, eh? From the previous strip, the mummies are well in range. I suppose that means they're all destroyed. Malack's going to be pissed.

I like how the spinning saw blades seem to blow air and make a brief area of clean air.

Hm, how'd Durkon run through the crowd of mummies without drawing five attacks of opportunity? They have to be commanded to attack, I suppose? Oh...looking carefully, he is indeed stepping out of the wall after using his stone shape spell.

[The Pink Ninja]

Glad to see the Order is fighting back. Tarquin whupping them singlehandedly was getting really old.

[RMS Oceanic]

In OotSland, it appears the word in Holy Word (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/holyWord.htm) is actually "Holy."

Just like Power Word Stun (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0716.html). :smallsmile:

[Onyavar]

In the last panel, Durkon is standing next to the only character who was uneffected by his spell.

Guess which character has a death prophecy flying around.

[RMS Oceanic]

40 foot radius, eh? From the previous strip, the mummies are well in range. I suppose that means they're all destroyed. Malack's going to be pissed.

Hm, how'd Durkon run through the crowd of mummies without drawing five attacks of opportunity? They have to be commanded to attack, I suppose?

He travelled through the stone of the wall, bypassing them. You can see him stepping out from it.

[Ron Miel]

They didn't hear him because he literally came through the wall rather than trying to sneak past, probably using Meld Into Stone (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/meldIntoStone.htm).

I don't think so, the spell description says it works on "a single block of stone." Durkon is stepping out of the junction of three blocks.

Someone on another forum suggests he's shrugging off a camouflage spell.

[Emperordaniel]

Durkon is pure awesome. :cool:

[Fjolnir]

In the last panel, Durkon is standing next to the only character who was uneffected by his spell.

Guess which character has a death prophecy flying around.

Belkar isn't in the room...:smallamused:

[Bulldog Psion]

I don't think so, the spell description says it works on "a single block of stone." Durkon is stepping out of the junction of three blocks.

Someone on another forum suggests he's shrugging off a camouflage spell.

I kind of doubt it's camouflage. Take a look -- the edges of the stone blocks appear to be soft and distorted around him, like the stone itself is buckling as he pushes out of it.

[The Giant]

I don't think so, the spell description says it works on "a single block of stone." Durkon is stepping out of the junction of three blocks.

Someone on another forum suggests he's shrugging off a camouflage spell.

It's Meld Into Stone. I don't feel bound to that level of rules accuracy, and it was otherwise really hard to show the flat stone warping without having the mortar lines bending too.

[Bulldog Psion]

It's Meld Into Stone. I don't feel bound to that level of rules accuracy, and it was otherwise really hard to show the flat stone warping without having the mortar lines bending too.

Thank you -- we appreciate the information!

(Especially since I was just proven right in my last post :smallbiggrin:!)

[oppyu]

It's Meld Into Stone. I don't feel bound to that level of rules accuracy, and it was otherwise really hard to show the flat stone warping without having the mortar lines bending too.
Thank you; that's exactly the kind of ambiguity that leads to 10+ pages of counterquoting argument, delving further into obscure references and circular arguments with every post.

[bengator]

My favorite comic in a while. I loved the Watchman reference with Malack. Maybe a hint as to his true character?

I find it a little two coincidental that both neutral-ish casters are separated from their parties with their familiars. Perhaps a meet up between them soon. I would think Malack could give V some solace over his/her actions. He just seems like that kind of lizard and has the same not so subtle contempt for his own party, so maybe something in common over which to bond?

You know, unless hes trying to kill V or something.

Also, the passive look on Durkon's face? Classic.

[pendell]

On top of that, the Holy Word instantly took out Sabine.


ETA: Never mind. Found the relevant text in the SRD.



Furthermore, if you are on your home plane when you cast this spell, nongood extraplanar creatures within the area are instantly banished back to their home planes. Creatures so banished cannot return for at least 24 hours. This effect takes place regardless of whether the creatures hear the holy word. The banishment effect allows a Will save (at a -4 penalty) to negate.


So it took out Sabine? Wow. That is NEAT.

ETA: Or not. It allows a will save. Given this is OOTS (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0584.html), assume Sabine makes a natural 20 :smallmad:.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Finagle]

Shouldn't Z'zdtri have said, "me either"? Kilkil said "I can't see" and "me too" means to agree with a positive statement. "Me either" means to agree with a negative statement. The things you learn hanging out with lots of people who speak English as a second language.

Oh, and Holy Word can be blocked by steel doors?

[Douglas]

I do not dispute the rest of your post, but how did it take out Sabine? The spell's description does not imply any particular damage to devils or demons beyond the standard damage to all characters, and if I understand class & level geekery correctly , she's on par level with Nale and company, so would not suffer anything but deafening.

Respectfully,

Brian P.
She's a nongood extraplanar creature. Holy Word banishes those back to their home plane and prevents them from coming back for 24 hours. A successful will save can prevent this, but it's a substantially harder save than normal thanks to a special -4 penalty.

[Squark]

It's quite possible Tarquin is deafened, as his pose could be shrugging off the affects, or taking them. However, he probably isn't blinded, which means he's in the perfect place for a full attack on Durkon.

[ferrodoxin]

Awesome.

This might be bad news for Durkon though....
There is a good chance that Tarquin is going to be pissed.

and "just the speel for tha" is meld into stone, because it allowed Durkon to be part of the ambush instead of Sir Clanksalot

[Ron Miel]

It's Meld Into Stone. I don't feel bound to that level of rules accuracy, and it was otherwise really hard to show the flat stone warping without having the mortar lines bending too.

I stand corrected. Ah well, I never heard of it before today anyway.

[AgentofHellfire]

So what happens when Malack uses one of the many spells usable to bypass or destroy the wall?

[Emperordaniel]

My favorite comic in a while. I loved the Watchman reference with Malack. Maybe a hint as to his true character?

I find it a little two coincidental that both neutral-ish casters are separated from their parties with their familiars.

Qarr is Zz'dtri's familiar, not Malack's. Clerics don't get familiars unless they multiclass to sorcerer or wizard or something. :smallwink:

[Crisis21]

Let's hear it for 20gp novelties!

[stsasser]

Tarquin's stance did not change at all during the progression of the spell. I think his posture is a reflex obtained from experience, but the Word did not affect him.

Check his body positions and the angle of his axe haft in the last panel. Tarquin looks affected to me.

[sims796]

So does this end the...erm..."ambiguity" of Tarquin's alignment, or will we have 20 pages worth of post with some crazy reason as to why he is not evil and "didn't really get effected by the spell"?

Shame Thog and Belkar wasn't caught in it too, would clear those up as well.

...

And yes, I am aware that the Giant literally mentioned their alignment, that didn't seem to help.

EDIT: Whelp, nevermind.

[Shmuel]

Regarding Tarquin, my money's on "unaffected." I'm interpreting his pose as a facepalm, not being deafened. (Note that he has it before Nale and Sabine clutch their ears...) But we'll find out!


so now they are standing in Holy Smoke?

I bow before you.


Shouldn't Z'zdtri have said, "me either"? Kilkil said "I can't see" and "me too" means to agree with a positive statement. "Me either" means to agree with a negative statement. The things you learn hanging out with lots of people who speak English as a second language.

Actually, no, that would be "me neither." But "me too" works as well.

[Nephrahim]

Regarding Tarquin, my money's on "unaffected." I'm interpreting his pose as a facepalm, not being deafened. (Note that he has it before Nale and Sabine clutch their ears...) But we'll find out!



I bow before you.



Actually, no, that would be "me neither." But "me too" works as well.

It's also possible Rich interprets "Unaffected" not as "Literally does nothing" but "Does no damage and does not blind or deafen, ext" so the bracing may just be him withstanding it, even if he doesn't get deafened.

We'll know soon enough.

[Blackdrop]

I'm willing to bet that whether he's affected or not, Tarquin acts like he's deafened so he can act and ignore Nale's orders.

Also, I'm willing to bet the ambush isn't over yet and that Belkar/Elan are similarly hidden nearby to take out Kilkil and Z.

[Winter]

ETA: Or not. It allows a will save. Given this is OOTS (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0584.html), assume Sabine makes a natural 20 :smallmad:.

No, I doubt that. If Rich wanted an awesome entry by Durkon with this Sneak Attack but leave Sabine in the game, he'd probably have taken another spell.

Having a great idea and setup (and for once the Order actually plans) and then it only goes up into a boring "Poof" because some lame saving throw was made is simply boring.
Also notice how Sabine just has shown that Nale needs her (or he'd have fully ran into half a dozen traps)? I think she's going to be out of the picture as of the next panel.

[Psyren]

Exactly. It seemed pretty obvious they were setting an ambush. I'm guessing they also took advantage of the trap positioning when deciding where to set it.

What makes this doubly amazing is that this is one of the few ways to hide a PC that defeats True Seeing and high Spot. Tarquin didn't have a chance. I think only another Dwarf would have a shot thanks to Stonecunning.

I may have to use this in a campaign :smallamused:

[Serafina]

Wow.

The major advantage of this is actually the same as that of the Smoke Stick - it prevents communication and coordination between the Linear Guild. Even if a few people aren't affected (such as Tarquin), the rest is still deafened. The smoke stick effectively blinds them regardless of the effects of the spell. Now they can't properly work together, especially since they're not a close team to start with!
Add Sabine getting banished (and possibly Quar as well) and the Mummies being destroyed and this is one hell of an opening salvo.

[Psyren]

ETA: Or not. It allows a will save. Given this is OOTS (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0584.html), assume Sabine makes a natural 20 :smallmad:.


Hey now, you don't know that. Being gone for a day would be a great way to set back the LG without removing Sabine from the story entirely.

[Bulldog Psion]

It's strange, but this is the first time I've actually been excited to see what happens next for years, rather than having a mildly masochistic interest in how the Order is going to get kicked around next episode. :smallbiggrin:

Bravo, bravo!!!

[irenicObserver]

Time to google "Holy". Nice update. :D

I would hazard a guess that it was Holy Word.

[Finagle]

Actually, no, that would be "me neither." But "me too" works as well.
Neither is basically not + either put together. But how does "me too" work? Z'zdtri is agreeing with the negative statement "I can't see". Neither would be inappropriate because there's already a "not" in the sentence, and neither already contains "not". In either the pair (do, neither) or the pair (don't, either), there must be one and only one 'n' (not).

I hate Mary. I hate her too. Me too. So do I. <-- "I hate" is affirmative.
I don't like Mary. I don't like her either. Me neither. Neither do I. <--- "I don't like" is negative
I hope she won't complain. I hope so too. Me too. So do I. <--- "I hope" is affirmative. You are referring to "I hope".
I hope she won't complain. I hope her father won't complain either. <---- This is the same as the one just above, but here you are referring to "won't complain", which is negative.
I don't think she will complain. I don't think so either. Me neither. Neither do I. <--- "don't think" is negative.
Link (http://www.englishforums.com/English/EitherNeitherNeither/zwxxw/post.htm)

[silvadel]

Well that trap avoided Qarr being dismissed AND made it not reveal Malack's alignment -- well played.

[Agnostik]

The last panel pretty much shows that unlike Redcloak and that nameless Azurite High Priest, Durkon knows how to make Cleric spells flashy. :smallyuk:

[Gift Jeraff]

Neither is basically not + either put together. But how does "me too" work? Z'zdtri is agreeing with the negative statement "I can't see". Neither would be inappropriate because there's already a "not" in the sentence, and neither already contains "not". In either the pair (do, neither) or the pair (don't, either), there must be one and only one 'n' (not).

I hate Mary. I hate her too. Me too. So do I. <-- "I hate" is affirmative.
I don't like Mary. I don't like her either. Me neither. Neither do I. <--- "I don't like" is negative
I hope she won't complain. I hope so too. Me too. So do I. <--- "I hope" is affirmative. You are referring to "I hope".
I hope she won't complain. I hope her father won't complain either. <---- This is the same as the one just above, but here you are referring to "won't complain", which is negative.
I don't think she will complain. I don't think so either. Me neither. Neither do I. <--- "don't think" is negative.
Link (http://www.englishforums.com/English/EitherNeitherNeither/zwxxw/post.htm)People aren't robots. People talk like people. Not robots.

[Ninja Dragon]

This is what happens when you let Nale do the planning. In a battle of wits against Roy.

[Shmuel]

Neither is basically not + either put together.

Correct. "Me neither" = "I cannot either." "Me either" is just gibberish.


Z'zdtri is agreeing with the negative statement "I can't see". Neither would be inappropriate because there's already a "not" in the sentence, and neither already contains "not". In either the pair (do, neither) or the pair (don't, either), there must be one and only one 'n' (not).

They are two different sentences. Each requires its own negation.

(The person you quoted actually backs me up on this. You may want to go read it again.)


But how does "me too" work?

By being understood. :smallsmile: Colloquial English doesn't always follow the rules, and that's okay.

(If it makes you feel any better, "I can't see" is construed here as "I am unable to see," to which "me too" is a reasonable response.)

[PureIrony]

This is getting good. I particularly can't wait to see how they plan to incapacitate Tarquin before moving in.



My estimate is the above + Sabine being banished.

I'm almost certain she will be. Getting sent back to her home plane would give her a chance to chat with the Fiends about her loyalties, and maybe get a bit more cryptic foreshadowing in.

[Essex]

I wonder if the Holy Word spell was chosen specifically because most of the Linear Guild have level adjustments, thereby making the spell a lot more likely to work on them.

If you assume that the core of the Linear Guild are all of comparable character levels to their OOtS counterparts, that would put the Drow at -2 HD due to level adjustment, possibly leading to paralysis for a minimum of one minute. Given the way that Zz'dtri is tilted back with a panicked look in the last panel, this may be a sign of falling off balance due to paralysis.

The templated Kobold is also almost certainly going down for the count due to a huge level adjustment from those wings.

As a Succubus has a whopping +6 LA, Sabine likely has a REALLY bad Will save (especially as her actual class levels are likely as a slow Will progression Rogue). Adding in the -4 penalty from the spell and she is almost certainly gone for the next 24 hours.

Of course, given the way that Durkon and Malik seem to respect each other, I wonder if Malik had to be protected from the spell by the trap wall in order for Durkon to agree to using that spell on the rest of the party.

The only immediate problem is Tarquin, whose ability to solo most of the OoTS without difficulty suggests that he is well above them in level, and thus likely immune to the spell's effects.

[Bulldog Psion]

The last panel pretty much shows that unlike Redcloak and that nameless Azurite High Priest, Durkon knows how to make Cleric spells flashy. :smallyuk:

One of the advantages of worshipping Thor, in addition to all the sacred beer, that is. :smallwink:

[Simons Mith]

I have a holier word than 'holy'. Especially for a cleric of Thor: 'Beer'. Would have meant the unholy word was 'lager'.

(Probably ninja'd. Haven't read all the thread yet.)

[ThePhantasm]

Also, I love how Tarquin is pretty much mocking Nale in the midst of this chaos.

[Gift Jeraff]

This is what happens when you let Nale do the planning. In a battle of wits against Roy.Hey, he completely outsmarted him in Cliffport.

[Stegyre]

Of course, given the way that Durkon and Malik seem to respect each other, I wonder if Malik had to be protected from the spell by the trap wall in order for Durkon to agree to using that spell on the rest of the party.
No. OotS is not yet aware of Malik's and Tarquin's presence in the LG, so it's pretty certain that was not a consideration.

A more important consideration is Tarquin's promise to Malik to leave Durkon to him (Malik).

[Edhelras]

I wonder if the Holy Word spell was chosen specifically because most of the Linear Guild have level adjustments, thereby making the spell a lot more likely to work on them.

Oh, I kinda thought the ECL was what counted, not the level from classes? So that a lvl 14 character with ECL+2 would count as lvl 16, for the purpose of this spell? But I was unsure about it.

[weeping eagle]

But how does "me too" work?"I, too, cannot see." "Me too" is a common substitution for "I too". Or if you like, read it as "That is true for me, too."

For the record, I vote for "Nor I."

[Bulldog Psion]

"I, too, cannot see." "Me too" is a common substitution for "I too". Or if you like, read it as "That is true for me, too."

For the record, I vote for "Nor I."

"Nor I" would fit right in with the dark elf's personality, too.

[Essex]

Oh, I kinda thought the ECL was what counted, not the level from classes? So that a lvl 14 character with ECL+2 would count as lvl 16, for the purpose of this spell? But I was unsure about it.
Nope. The spell specifically states that it is based on Hit Dice. Neither CR nor ECL matter. That makes the spell lousy for fighting high HD monsters with party appropriate CRs, but great for going up against members of theoretically playable races.

[Douglas]

Oh, I kinda thought the ECL was what counted, not the level from classes? So that a lvl 14 character with ECL+2 would count as lvl 16, for the purpose of this spell? But I was unsure about it.
ECL counts for XP, expected character wealth, and what level party you're "supposed to be" in. Nothing else.

[Gift Jeraff]

I wonder what Blasphemy/Dictum/Word of Chaos would look like?

Blasphemy
Speech Balloon: Something you'd see on a metal band t-shirt.
Effect: Evil tendtrils

Word of Chaos
Speech Balloon: Random each time, so you'd get something like ¢#@0$
Effect: Trippy and distorted

Dictum
Speech Balloon: 01000100 01101001 01100011 01110100 01110101 01101101
Effect: I can't think of anything here

[Clovis]

Ouch. Looks like it's time for Durkon's 'posthumous return' to the Dwarven lands. :smalleek:

[Finagle]

By being understood. :smallsmile: Colloquial English doesn't always follow the rules, and that's okay.
What is this "English" you speak of? I have never heard of it before. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0209.html)

Besides, think about how dull life would be without those wacky grammar nazis? The author has shown himself able to use semicolons correctly; but baffling usage errors creep in far too often. He even makes grammar jokes (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0849.html). Live by the sword, die by the sword. It's the principal (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0848.html) of the thing.

EDIT: Hey! I just noticed that principle is now used in that comic instead of the original principal. Hurrah!

[JSSheridan]

I wonder if the Holy Word spell was chosen specifically because most of the Linear Guild have level adjustments, thereby making the spell a lot more likely to work on them.

:vaarsuvius:: Typical. The dwarf casts one spell and bypasses the drow's spell resistance.

[Finagle]

:vaarsuvius:: Typical. The dwarf casts one spell and bypasses the drow's spell resistance.
Applause...

[Psyren]

Well that trap avoided Qarr being dismissed AND made it not reveal Malack's alignment -- well played.

I doubt Malack is Good, which means the Word wouldn't have revealed much.

As far as Durkon dying, I predict that either Malack or Team Evil will be the cause, so he should be fine where he's at for the moment.

[GSFB]

We don't know for sure that affected characters are equal or lower level than Durkon, because we don't know what, if any, feats or magic items may be boosting Durkon's effective caster level. So with that in mind, how high could Durkon boost his CL for this? Assume he has every possible way to increase it.

[Sutremaine]

Of course, given the way that Durkon and Malik seem to respect each other, I wonder if Malik had to be protected from the spell by the trap wall in order for Durkon to agree to using that spell on the rest of the party.
For that to be true he'd need to know what each trap did (possible), and also have some backup spell (which would also have to be 'just the spell for that') in case Malack walked beyond the door's space or in case Sabine didn't accidently trigger the door (I assume that's the trap her tail triggered).

[ManuelSacha]

Ouch. Looks like it's time for Durkon's 'posthumous return' to the Dwarven lands. :smalleek:

You're a cheerful one, aren't you? :smalleek:

[Omergideon]

Hey, he completely outsmarted him in Cliffport.

Very effectively as well. And as I said he did pretty well in his impromptu ambush in the EoB, and here he was thinking clearly once he had a moment to calm down. not to mention in Dorukans Dungeon (without the natural 20 they would have won). Granted he does over complicate plots too much but Nale is not a total moron.

[ChowGuy]

"Nor I" would fit right in with the dark elf's personality, too.

Er, no. If it were V, one could expect "Nor I" (if not something even more loquacious) but in fact it's Z, who's much to taciturn to say any more then absolutely necessary.

[malignor]

Holy Word ...

Nale (HD=CL) = deaf
Sabine (monstrous LA+6, and ECL=CL so HD=CL-6) = deaf + blind + paralyzed + probably banished (assuming Durkon beat SR)
Winged Kobold (template give LA+2, and ECL=CL so HD=CL-2) = blind + deaf
Z'Drow (racial LA+2, and ECL=CL so HD=CL-2) = blind + deaf (assuming Durkon beat SR)
Tarquin (HD>CL) = "Sorry, did you say something?"
Malak (HD>CL) = "Oh hey Durkon, nice move! A cleric worthy of respect indeed."

My prediction:
Sabine will make the save, but be ignored as she's paralyzed+blind+deaf
Nale will flip out, being deaf in a smokey cloud
Tarquin will spring out of the smoke and use a fancy move, revealing he's too high a level to be Thog
Malak will give Durkon a compliment and blow away the smoke.
The Winged Kobold will fly blindly into a wall and fall down, ignored for now
Z'Drow's SR will fail him and he'll be messed up and probably cast an AoE to save his butt, annoying his badguy companions
The OOTS will follow up with move #3, which will be partly thwarted by Malak+Tarquin
V will hear the combat and show up at the end of the comic

[LordofNaught]

Well, a great deal of us were right. The spell was Holy Word. And the word is Holy. Huh, thought it'd be something more dramatic, but the font for the text took care of that. So, who imagined an angelic choir singing "Hallelujah" when the light show kicked in?

[Bulldog Psion]

Er, no. If it were V, one could expect "Nor I" (if not something even more loquacious) but in fact it's Z, who's much to taciturn to say any more then absolutely necessary.

"Nor I" is no longer than "Me too". :smallconfused:

[Jay R]

It's also possible Rich interprets "Unaffected" not as "Literally does nothing" but "Does no damage and does not blind or deafen, ext" so the bracing may just be him withstanding it, even if he doesn't get deafened.

We'll know soon enough.

This strip's ending feels like a common, frustrating moment in a game with too many players. I've cast my spell, but it will take awhile for me to tell what affect it had. So I have to wait for the Giant DM to finish making his notes and eventually show us the results.

[Math_Mage]

We don't know for sure that affected characters are equal or lower level than Durkon, because we don't know what, if any, feats or magic items may be boosting Durkon's effective caster level. So with that in mind, how high could Durkon boost his CL for this? Assume he has every possible way to increase it.

Probably a bad idea, considering the amount of juice that theoretical optimization can squeeze from a stone. :smallwink:

Since this is the limited-op OotS, Durkon's unlikely to be casting at higher than CL 19-20 (level 14-15 + 1 (domain slot) + 4 (hypothetical bead of karma)).


Er, no. If it were V, one could expect "Nor I" (if not something even more loquacious) but in fact it's Z, who's much to taciturn to say any more then absolutely necessary.

"Nor I" is literally the shortest response that carries the same meaning. V would say something along the lines of "I also find myself visually incapacitated, Sir Greenhilt."

[Cuilean]

Given the way that Zz'dtri is tilted back with a panicked look in the last panel, this may be a sign of falling off balance due to paralysis.
Zz'dtri raises the left arm in the last "echo"... probably not paralyzed.


As a Succubus has a whopping +6 LA, Sabine likely has a REALLY bad Will save (especially as her actual class levels are likely as a slow Will progression Rogue). Adding in the -4 penalty from the spell and she is almost certainly gone for the next 24 hours.
Since Sabine only has two "echoes" while all the other characters have three, I agree --- she's gone poof for 24 hours. ;D

[Nephrahim]

I doubt he even has a bead. The spell works fine without him having it, so from a story perspective it's not needed, and we know the OotS aren't big into optimization the way players are.

[Gift Jeraff]

Zz'dtri raises the left arm in the last "echo"... probably not paralyzed.


Since Sabine only has two "echoes" while all the other characters have three, I agree --- she's gone poof for 24 hours. ;DI see 3. Mouth open -> teeth -> mouth open.

[Riverdance]

Awesome strategizing Order. Great Comic. Thanks Rich.:smallsmile:

[Math_Mage]

Since Sabine only has two "echoes" while all the other characters have three, I agree --- she's gone poof for 24 hours. ;D

Sabine has the same number of echoes as the other characters. On the far right of the final panel, you can see her third echo.


I doubt he even has a bead. The spell works fine without him having it, so from a story perspective it's not needed, and we know the OotS aren't big into optimization the way players are.

Hence 'hypothetical'. I'm granting it as a possibility since it was mentioned upthread, and this is honestly quite limited in terms of CL optimization. But it's true we haven't actually seen a bead used.

[ChowGuy]

"Nor I" is literally the shortest response that carries the same meaning."

You're missing the point though. "Nor I" requires thinking in terms of precise grammatical construction, with the goal of sounding as erudite as possible. That's V's bag. Z's grunts tend to make Thog look like Talky Man.

[Snurk]

Thanks Giant for you made me see I have been neglecting Meld into Stone.
I will build a Rogue/Cleric with/Black Flame Zealot and annoy my group with it coming saturday.
For they will be sneaked from the walls!

[Math_Mage]

That wasn't Stone to Flesh, though. It was Stoneshape or Meld Into Stone.


You're missing the point though. "Nor I" requires thinking in terms of precise grammatical construction, with the goal of sounding as erudite as possible. That's V's bag. Z's grunts tend to make Thog look like Talky Man.

"They're standard issue" is the first thing Z says in this comic. Hardly coarser speech than "Nor I." "V's bag" is exactly as I described it previously--verbose as well as erudite.

Do you really want to argue that it is implausible for Z to say "Nor I" instead of "Me neither" or "Me too"? Is that an argument worth having? Think about it.

[Psyren]

Malak (HD>CL) = "Oh hey Durkon, nice move! A cleric worthy of respect indeed."

The Word didn't affect Malak. Durkon doesn't have line of effect behind the steel bulkhead that slammed shut between them.

(Or is it "Malack," I forget and am lazy)

[SinsI]

One of the interesting questions is how far was Mallack and the imp.

Durkon doesn't have line of effect behind the steel bulkhead that slammed shut between them.
It's sound, it travels through metal (and walls). As long as they were within 12 meters, they must be affected.
P.S. since they are near the smoke, and a smokestick has only a range of 3 meters, I'm pretty sure they are also within the range of Holy.

[isamaru]

The effects are already visible in the last panel if you look closely. Everyone has 3 versions.
Nale, Zzdtri, and Sabine all have closed eyes in the third one. So I guess all of them are at least blinded.

Although it does not give them significant disadvantage in terms of numbers, they are screwed from the tactical perspective. No way to communicate about the strategy or even see what is going on around them.
Durkon alone is a serious threat to them now because he can spam them with additional debuffs and blasts from the safety of the darkness, and they won't even know what he's casting. They are completely helpless, some of them even helpless (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#helpless).

[PAKOofMM]

I find it ironic that a dungeon with "lame traps" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0855.html) suddenly becomes deadly to the LG because of a smokestick. :smallamused:

[OoTLink]

daaaaaaaaaang. :smallsmile:

[Menarker]

I realize that Tarquin is extremely competent and high leveled, but I'm wondering why everyone says he seems to be unaffected by Holy Word. One of his hands was up to his ears and as previously mentioned, his leg is partly bent on his knees as if to support himself or avoid stumbling. As his mask obscures his face, we can't really be certain about how much of an annoyance the spell is, but I'd imagine that a completely unexpected pointblank auditory attack wouldn't be completely shrugged off.

I can totally get behind that he was one of least effected, along with the two behind the wall. But complete immunity? Gotta recall that this setting, while based heavily based on the DnD game, Holy Word probably isn't going to have their effects completely nullified just because Tarquin's theortical "Hit Dice" happens to match or nearly match Durkon's caster level. The effects would probably be more in line of varying hues of effectiveness, rather than the binary *insert effect if X < Y*.

[FujinAkari]

Well, a great deal of us were right. The spell was Holy Word. And the word is Holy. Huh, thought it'd be something more dramatic, but the font for the text took care of that. So, who imagined an angelic choir singing "Hallelujah" when the light show kicked in?

Actually, the spell was Stoneshape. I certainly interpret his "having just the spell for the ambush" to be a means that he can get into ambush position wearing heavy armor. Stealth is certainly not one of Durkon's strong points, and so a spell that allows him to participate in an ambush is noteworthy indeed.

While Holy Word is a great spell, I don't think that was what Durkon was referring too.

[Kish]

Gotta recall that this setting, while based heavily based on the DnD game, Holy Word probably isn't going to have their effects completely nullified just because Tarquin's theortical "Hit Dice" happens to match or nearly match Durkon's caster level. The effects would probably be more in line of varying hues of effectiveness, rather than the binary *insert effect if X < Y*.
Aside from the fact that you seem to be under the impression that Tarquin is universally acknowledged as lower level than Durkon, you're asking everyone to "recall" an assumption you're making which strikes me as extremely unlikely, that Rich will randomly house-rule Holy Word because...why now?

I very much hope Holy Word affects Tarquin. In large part because, if it does, we can finally say with authority (albeit I have no illusions of everyone being convinced...) that Tarquin is not epic-level, and unless Durkon mentions a Bead of Karma pretty quickly I, at least, will also feel comfortable saying "nor more than one level higher than Durkon."

[Douglas]

It's sound
The line of effect rules don't care without a specific exception, which Holy Word does not have.


Actually, the spell was Stoneshape. I certainly interpret his "having just the spell for the ambush" to be a means that he can get into ambush position wearing heavy armor. Stealth is certainly not one of Durkon's strong points, and so a spell that allows him to participate in an ambush is noteworthy indeed.

While Holy Word is a great spell, I don't think that was what Durkon was referring too.
Meld Into Stone, not Stone Shape.

[Bustamouse]

Going purely off the art here I will give my prediction

Nale - Grabs ears and closes eyes, deafened for sure but not paralyzed. I think the eyes closed means he is going to be blinded too.

Sabine - Same as Nale with the added potential she is about to get banished

Z - definately paralyzed, didn't move an inch (along with blind and deaf of course)

KilKil - Same as Z

Tarquin - We all know how tough he is and I think he is just bracing from the spell here and will not be affected. However I think some on brought up Malack wants to be the one to kill Durkon so we will see if he honors his friend's request.

[Bustamouse]

Going purely off the art here I will give my prediction

Nale - Grabs ears and closes eyes, deafened for sure but not paralyzed. I think the eyes closed means he is going to be blinded too.

Sabine - Same as Nale with the added potential she is about to get banished

Z - definately paralyzed, didn't move an inch (along with blind and deaf of course)

KilKil - Same as Z

Tarquin - We all know how tough he is and I think he is just bracing from the spell here and will not be affected. However I think some on brought up Malack wants to be the one to kill Durkon so we will see if he honors his friend's request.

[Krakes]

What spell did Durkon use to do that?

Also, how don't you hear the dwarf in full plate?

It looks like some magic was used to get him in the middle of the guild- that and the smoke, noise, and confusion probably offset his armor clanking.

On another note, how wonderfully convenient that Malack has been shut off from the guild in such a way that no one in the order can see him and figure our what's going on.:smallwink:

[Krakes]

What spell did Durkon use to do that?

Also, how don't you hear the dwarf in full plate?

It looks like some magic was used to get him in the middle of the guild- that and the smoke, noise, and confusion probably offset his armor clanking.

On another note, how wonderfully convenient that Malack has been shut off from the guild in such a way that no one in the order can see him and figure our what's going on.:smallwink:

[luc258]

I love how Roy turns the situation around with high int. One panel before, the OOTS was terribly outmatched.
Now the linear guild is divided and short of one of its most powerful members, the majority of it are stunned, blind, deaf and Sabine likely banished (can't tell for sure from the art, but I think it's banished). This leaves the Linear Guild short of its only person capable to handle traps in a pyramid that is one big death trap, it's way back cut off and Tarquin facing the Order alone except this time they are better prepared.
I really like how Roy turned this situation around with intelligence and not just brute force, I like how it was not just magic spell 1 + magic spell 2, but "ordinary" rogueish stuff that set up the ambush.

What will Roy do next? Attack Tarquin almost all vs. 1 and how will they manage this time, withdraw and have the linear guild stumble into a few traps? Will something unforseen happen?
Great story.
I also like the art for the holy word.

[Bulldog Psion]

It looks like some magic was used to get him in the middle of the guild- that and the smoke, noise, and confusion probably offset his armor clanking.


Yes, if they're blinded by smoke, they're not going to know who's causing which clanking. They can't see each other, there are mechanical traps going off -- the clank from a dwarf taking one step out of the wall isn't going to draw any notice even if it's fairly loud.

[cZak]

{{Scrubbed}}

[luc258]

I love how Roy turns the situation around with high int. One panel before, the OOTS was terribly outmatched.
Now the linear guild is divided and short of one of its most powerful members, the majority of it are stunned, blind, deaf and Sabine likely banished (can't tell for sure from the art, but I think it's banished). This leaves the Linear Guild short of its only person capable to handle traps in a pyramid that is one big death trap, it's way back cut off and Tarquin facing the Order alone except this time they are better prepared.
I really like how Roy turned this situation around with intelligence and not just brute force, I like how it was not just magic spell 1 + magic spell 2, but "ordinary" rogueish stuff that set up the ambush.

What will Roy do next? Attack Tarquin almost all vs. 1 and how will they manage this time, withdraw and have the linear guild stumble into a few traps? Will something unforseen happen?
Great story.
I also like the art for the holy word.

[ti'esar]

I don't know what I'm most excited about in this comic, but the fact that Durkon is finally doing something awesome, for the first time in ages, tops the list. Very cool artwork.

Incidentally, I've only skimmed the thread so far, but does anyone else expect that Tarquin's cover may about to be blown?

[Karoug]

So. Worth. the Wait.


GO DURKON!!!:smallcool:

[The Pilgrim]

Holy Word. Clever, Durkon, clever...

[Chessgeek]

I like the tactic, certainly, but the Order has to join in soon, or Durkon is at pretty serious risk, standing right next to Tarquin and all.

[anamiac]

"Nor I" is literally the shortest response that carries the same meaning. V would say something along the lines of "I also find myself visually incapacitated, Sir Greenhilt."

"Me too" and "Nor I" have the same number of syllables, but that doesn't mean they require the same amount of time or effort to say. Nor in particular has a long vowel that doesn't lend itself to be spoken quickly. If you don't believe me, try saying "Me too" 5 times fast and you're gonna find that that's alot faster than saying "Nor I" 5 times fast.

[Gift Jeraff]

I just noticed Durkon starting to come out of the stone behind Sabine in Panel 5.
Z - definately paralyzed, didn't move an inch (along with blind and deaf of course)He goes from blank faced to shocked to closing his eyes and covering his ears. I don't think he's paralyzed. Kilkil does seem to be, though.

[Mordae]

For that to be true he'd need to know what each trap did (possible), and also have some backup spell (which would also have to be 'just the spell for that') in case Malack walked beyond the door's space or in case Sabine didn't accidently trigger the door (I assume that's the trap her tail triggered).

The Order does not know that Malack or Tarquin are with the Linear Guild, so Durkon would have no reason not to break out the biggest hammer available to him. The trap wall shutting conveniently prevents him from targeting a friend, though.

[kickassfrog]

YAY! New comic.

Although I'm hoping the order get a charge in on T, because if not, Durkon is about to take a serious beatdown.

I'm assuming the rest of the LG is out of the fight.

I may have said before, but I hope Nale dies and Sabine is shocked by T's lack of willingness to rez him.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Now THAT was impressive, both in artwork and strategy! And yet at the same time Malack's cut off...

[SaintRidley]

It's so beautiful...

[SinsI]

The line of effect rules don't care without a specific exception, which Holy Word does not have.
Line of effect rules only work if you have a total cover, and one must take into account the nature of the effect to determine if something counts as one - i.e. a thin sheet of paper does not provide complete cover from arrows. Unless that door is soundproof, it won't work as protection against Holy. And even if it is, the imp might still need to make his save.

[Math_Mage]

I don't know what I'm most excited about in this comic, but the fact that Durkon is finally doing something awesome, for the first time in ages, tops the list. Very cool artwork.

Incidentally, I've only skimmed the thread so far, but does anyone else expect that Tarquin's cover may about to be blown?

Not any more than I was expecting it before this comic, to be honest. The reveal will happen, and the times when it's likely to happen are approaching at a rate of one strip per strip.

[Snippy]

Great comic. It's good to see the OotS actually having a good plan, and the Holy Word spell looks amazing.

[Xel]

Here's one more tidbit to the CL discussion:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0737.html

Malack's speech in the first frame could be an indication that he and Durkon are comparable levels.

Also, the 5th through 7th frames could be read as indication that he's Neutral. Not that he says he is...

[Kish]

In fact, he comes exactly as close to saying he's Neutral as Tarquin does to saying his forces are going to help the Free City of Doom when he's talking to Amun-Zora.

But it doesn't matter at the moment. If the Holy Word somehow goes through that metal wall (which it won't), it checks for "nongood," not for "evil."

[Rules Lawyer #1]

"Me too" and "Nor I" have the same number of syllables, but that doesn't mean they require the same amount of time or effort to say. Nor in particular has a long vowel that doesn't lend itself to be spoken quickly. If you don't believe me, try saying "Me too" 5 times fast and you're gonna find that that's alot faster than saying "Nor I" 5 times fast.

+1 :smallsmile:

[Silferdrake]

Dang, it's nice to see the Order finally being on the offensive!

[Rules Lawyer #1]

"Me too" and "Nor I" have the same number of syllables, but that doesn't mean they require the same amount of time or effort to say. Nor in particular has a long vowel that doesn't lend itself to be spoken quickly. If you don't believe me, try saying "Me too" 5 times fast and you're gonna find that that's alot faster than saying "Nor I" 5 times fast.

+1 :smallsmile:

edit: sorry about double post... but since It happened, I'll take the opportunity to say a few more words...

I am surprised if Tarquin is affected because after the encounters with OotS and his comment that Roy is a fighter that might actually give him xp, I expect him to be significantly higher in level and hence HD.
Facepalm is best interpretation in my opinion.

I concur that Kilkil is the only member of LG not to put his hands to his head. My guess is paralyzed - not sure how that works unless the CL of the spell was boosted... hmmm maybe Tarquin is deafened!

I agree that Sabine is most likely banished for 24 hours.

The highlight of the comic for me was Durkon's expression in the middle of the Holy Word... classic.

I think cutting Malack off from the rest of the LG was clever and, of course, I am curious to see what he will end up doing...

I don't think it's the end for Durkon yet just because he is standing next to Tarquin and I expect we shall see more OotS actions for those who haven't clocked in on the ambush.

Yay! Update!

[MeanMrsMustard]

[Incredibly Lame Pun]Holy smokes![/Incredibly Lame Pun]

[Math_Mage]

"Me too" and "Nor I" have the same number of syllables, but that doesn't mean they require the same amount of time or effort to say. Nor in particular has a long vowel that doesn't lend itself to be spoken quickly. If you don't believe me, try saying "Me too" 5 times fast and you're gonna find that that's alot faster than saying "Nor I" 5 times fast.

If we want to get technical, "Me too" doesn't carry the same meaning, as it is a grammatically incorrect structure in that context. And ease of repetition has nothing to do with speed of saying it once at a natural pace. It's also faster to repeat "me neither" 5 times fast, but that phrase is certainly longer than "nor I".

[ti'esar]

Not any more than I was expecting it before this comic, to be honest. The reveal will happen, and the times when it's likely to happen are approaching at a rate of one strip per strip.

On the other hand, the Order is likely to get their first clear proof that Kilkil, at least, is with the Linear Guild. Given that they've already conclusively proven "Thog" isn't, I'd say the odds of someone guessing Tarquin's identity did just increase some.

[Jay R]

Even so, he would still make noise. Yeah, he didn't have to walk all that way so they wouldn't have as long to hear him, but still - armor's loud and how don't you hear the armor? Remember this strip? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0024.html) Those goblins heard him all the way away.

The sounds of armor down the hallway when none of you wear armor is alarming.

The sound of armor in the middle of your party, when one of you wears armor, is not.

[Stegyre]

Line of effect rules only work if you have a total cover, and one must take into account the nature of the effect to determine if something counts as one - i.e. a thin sheet of paper does not provide complete cover from arrows. Unless that door is soundproof, it won't work as protection against Holy. And even if it is, the imp might still need to make his save.
Not in D&D land: "A line of effect is a straight, unblocked path that indicates what an ability, effect, or spell can affect. A solid barrier cancels line of effect." RC at 80.

While it's true (and Rich has already stated in this very thread) that OotS is not strictly bound by D&D rules, what you are arguing for is extremely unlikely under those rules.

[dps]

Getting knocked around like that, will Kilkil lose his glasses?

(Those of us who are nearsighted will appreciate how important this it!)

Not a big deal when you're already deaf, blind, and paralyzed (which it seems likely he is).

Even less of a deal if he's dead, but I doubt he is (yet).

[Morgan Wick]

Looks like we're seeing the Unspoken Plan Guarantee (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UnspokenPlanGuarantee) in action.

[anamiac]

If we want to get technical, "Me too" doesn't carry the same meaning, as it is a grammatically incorrect structure in that context. And ease of repetition has nothing to do with speed of saying it once at a natural pace. It's also faster to repeat "me neither" 5 times fast, but that phrase is certainly longer than "nor I".

Well, obviously "Me too" isn't grammatically correct. Nobody's arguing about that. I was just pointing out that there's a very good reason why someone might say it - it rolls off the tongue easier, and people still understand what you mean. Z doesn't seem to like speaking much.

[DracoDei]

I am pretty sure that the +1 CL for the Good Domain (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spellLists/clericDomains.htm#goodDomain) applies to all spells with the [Good] tag, regardless of if they are part of the Good Domain.

[Boogastreehouse]

Looks like we're seeing the Unspoken Plan Guarantee (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UnspokenPlanGuarantee) in action.

See, you could have linked to the time in the comic itself when Elan explains the importance of keeping plans secret (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0836.html), but no.

I swear, that website always seems to make things less impressive.

[Kish]

Is anyone actually unclear that Zz'dtri was indicating that he could not see? For the sake of argument, let's assume that his phrasing was a horrific atrocity against grammar and coherent language.

Is anyone unclear on what he meant?

[Bulldog Psion]

Well, obviously "Me too" isn't grammatically correct. Nobody's arguing about that. I was just pointing out that there's a very good reason why someone might say it - it rolls off the tongue easier, and people still understand what you mean. Z doesn't seem to like speaking much.

Actually, I find "nor I" easier to say. I must be weird. :smalleek:

[Toper]

Wonderful comic. It makes me happy.

[Ted The Bug]

It's always fun seeing Tarquin knocked off-balance for a change. Looks like Nale has taught the OotS well!

[Math_Mage]

Well, obviously "Me too" isn't grammatically correct. Nobody's arguing about that. I was just pointing out that there's a very good reason why someone might say it - it rolls off the tongue easier, and people still understand what you mean. Z doesn't seem to like speaking much.

A few people did argue that.

Anyway, are we still talking about whether it would be plausible for Z to use "Nor I" if he wanted a grammatically correct substitute for "Me too"? Because that was the original topic.

[Nightpenguin]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you usually need to burn the smokestick (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm#smokestick) to make it smoke? It couldn't have been on fire and sealed within that container, because it's airtight (otherwise the smoke would get out).

[Sweet_Goddess]

Probably a bad idea, considering the amount of juice that theoretical optimization can squeeze from a stone. :smallwink:

Since this is the limited-op OotS, Durkon's unlikely to be casting at higher than CL 19-20 (level 14-15 + 1 (domain slot) + 4 (hypothetical bead of karma)).



"Nor I" is literally the shortest response that carries the same meaning. V would say something along the lines of "I also find myself visually incapacitated, Sir Greenhilt."

"Me too" and "Nor I" have the same number of syllables, but that doesn't mean they require the same amount of time or effort to say. Nor in particular has a long vowel that doesn't lend itself to be spoken quickly. If you don't believe me, try saying "Me too" 5 times fast and you're gonna find that that's alot faster than saying "Nor I" 5 times fast.

Well, obviously "Me too" isn't grammatically correct. Nobody's arguing about that. I was just pointing out that there's a very good reason why someone might say it - it rolls off the tongue easier, and people still understand what you mean. Z doesn't seem to like speaking much.

Actually, I find "nor I" easier to say. I must be weird. :smalleek:

Grammar or no grammar, the fact is there is 1 better answer, that is more succinct, shorter by 1 character (not letter, but character, because 'Nor I' is 5, 4 letters and a space) then even 'Nor I', carries the same value as any of the above responses, and is a single syllable, and that response would have been, "Same". It is valid, it is quick, it is easy, it is a mere 4 letters, it is 1 word with one syllable, it is even a short word. You can even say it like 15 times fast in the time you'd say any other response 5 times face.




I see 3. Mouth open -> teeth -> mouth open.

I agree, but her 3rd image seems to be fading more then anyone else's, like she is flickering out of this plane... she may be about to fail her save.




YAY! New comic.

Although I'm hoping the order get a charge in on T, because if not, Durkon is about to take a serious beatdown.

I'm assuming the rest of the LG is out of the fight.

I may have said before, but I hope Nale dies and Sabine is shocked by T's lack of willingness to rez him.

1) I see Tarquin slightly staggered, his images actually shows him bracing, down on a a knee, and his last one has his axe tilting further back, so he is being affected
2) Tarquin has his word to Malack to keep
3) Even without 'Holy' Word, the smoke is still there, so Durkon is still hidden from sight and therefore harder to hit.

The wee Dwarf shall nay have a problem nary yet.

[Ron Miel]

Geez, look folks. It's obvious. Z's response "me too" wasn't made to the kobold. It was made in response to Tarquin's statement "Pretty Clever"

Z is obviously saying that Z is pretty clever too. Why can't you see this? It's so very obvious.

I'm just kidding. But I wonder how many people will believe it.

[rewinn]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you usually need to burn the smokestick (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm#smokestick) to make it smoke? It couldn't have been on fire and sealed within that container, because it's airtight (otherwise the smoke would get out).

Good spot! This must be the less common 30 gp self-igniting smokestick. Look for it whereever quality dungeon supplies are sold!
(Guarantee void were prohibited by Law. Self-igniting smokestick is not a toy and should be used with caution. Do not ignite near face or hold in hand.)

[Felixc-91]

I totally called it. Holy word, very nice. Looks like he got everyone except T (i think). Ouch, look at Sabine in her most faded out form, one of the ways level ajustments really suck... i wonder if she is going to end up banished.

[MrBanana]

Just thinking, Durkon was probably waiting there. So he didn't make any noise, regardless of the stone or not.

[137beth]

Well, this officially ends speculation about what "just the spell for tha" is:smallsmile:

[OoTLink]

Wow that's incredibly badass. I did NOT expect them to get thrown THAT badly. SWEEEEEEEET!


Wow. I guess you guys were totally right lol.

[Tobimaro]

Epic Giant is epic! And now we see the true power of a cleric who knows his spells. My Living Greyhawk cleric never did that Meld Into Stone trick, but that looked great. Giant, I salute you! :smallsmile:

[StormRaven]

If we assume that the Order of the stick is universally level 16, and Durkon has the Good Domain, Sabine, Nale and possibly Zz'dtri are ECL 16 and that the mummies are standard mummies, the likely order of effects is this.
Nale (16 HD vs 17 CL) = deaf and blinded
Sabine (LA+6 so 10 HD vs 17 CL) = deaf + blind + paralyzed +banished
(SR 18 vs a CL of 17 is pretty much an auto success for the caster, Assuming she only has levels of rogue she's got a base will save of +6 and assuming her wisdom is average for her race and she does not have iron will, her total save is around +8, Durkon's Holy word has a DC of at least 20, at the best she most likely only has a 20% chance of not being banished)
Zz'dtri (LA+2 so at best 14HD vs 17 CL) = blind + deaf (SR of 25 at best gives a 60%+ chance that he'll be effected)
Mummies (8 HD vs 17 CL) = deaf + blind + paralyzed

We can note that the mummies serve as a interesting test case, if they die then Durkon has a additional CL from somewhere.

[stsasser]

1) I see Tarquin slightly staggered, his images actually shows him bracing, down on a a knee, and his last one has his axe tilting further back, so he is being affected
2) Tarquin has his word to Malack to keep
3) Even without 'Holy' Word, the smoke is still there, so Durkon is still hidden from sight and therefore harder to hit.

The wee Dwarf shall nay have a problem nary yet.

1) My first thought about the angle of the axe was the same, (or 'Me too', if you prefer,) but all the positive assertions here that Tarquin is unaffected makes me wonder if Tarquin isn't lifting the axe for a strike.
2) As noted in 3), Tarquin can't see clearly, so he might not know that it is Durkon that he's about to chop in half.
3) See 2).

[MDR]

I have a holier word than 'holy'. Especially for a cleric of Thor: 'Beer'. Would have meant the unholy word was 'lager'.

(Probably ninja'd. Haven't read all the thread yet.)

Absolutely loved the strip, but now I want to see the same spell casting with the D-man saying 'Beer' in holy script. :)

[St Fan]

Fun fact: Malack's tail is poking out of the frame in panel 3.

[teratorn]

How did all those mummies fail to set those two traps?

[Bulldog Psion]

How did all those mummies fail to set those two traps?

Good question. :smalleek:

[Yendor]

How did all those mummies fail to set those two traps?

They had already spotted the traps and commanded the mummies to go around them. Then they stumbled onto them in the smoke.

[RickDaily12]

Where I stand in opinion in all this: Linear Guild is seriously flat-footed right now. About time? :smallamused:

For those still questioning: spell was Holy Word, preceded by Meld into Stone (Thanks Giant :smallwink:) and so Durkon did just blow away the entire Linear Guild sans Qarr and Malack (due to Sabine's Tail striking the wall trap, Panel 2) though I think I'm in agreement with Kish that they are unaffected. I think the wall seperates these two completely unless both use transmutations or possibly Teleport to bring themselves back into the fray.

If they were hit by it, my stance with Qarr is that he is killed. Malack is unaffected?

IF we're going to look only at motions of bodies after the spell was casted to determine whether their motions reveal their current states, I hold the following opinions based purely on eye evidence:

Nale and Zz'dtri are Blinded and Deafened if we care about visuals. Both are knocked away closing their eyes (Deafened -> Blinded) and you can see both closing their eyes in their third echoes, though Nale is a little harder to make out. Sabine is utterly crippled by this spell. Blind and Deaf for sure. Her mouth looks completely deformed, far too large, even for an echo. She might make her Will Save, but I'm really hoping she gets Banished.

We have seen no evidence, really, of any levels existing within Kilkil. Although size may matter to this point, but if anyone were truly blown away by this spell, it would be him, so I'm inclined to believe he went one step further and was paralyzed by this attack. He doesn't appear to be killed, as that effect is instantaneous and he appears to be living in the second and third echoes. Sabine is affected by the second echo. Time states: he's living.

Tarquin is the only person who puzzles me. As pointed out by Xel earlier, Malack does state in comic 737 during one of Durkon's visits that they are of "equal standing" as clerics. This implies that Durkon is already close enough to the level of Malack if not equal, thus making him near Tarquin's Level pre-Level Bonuses. Therefore, we should not be so quick to assume that he was unaffected here by being of a higher level. Let's look closer.

Tarquin does appear to stagger slightly, his hand is to his head, and he's moving slightly as the echoes pass. He could be deafened. I really hope he is. It would be nice if something could actually shock this "complete badass" that Elan wants to be able to match someday. People have brought the question that he could be acting, but I doubt he would allow himself to toss away the initiative that easily at such a critical point in battle. And he moves in a way that, to me, doesn't appear to be out of pure irritation. I'm not certain, but I think it's likely that he actually was affected by the spell.


How did all those mummies fail to set those two traps?
To this, I'm sure they were guided away by Malack's commands at the time. Either way, it happened, didn't it?

[Ninja Dragon]

Well, according to the spell description...

Tarquin is probably unaffected, altough the strip suggests the spell worked on him. He might be deafened. But I think he is faking it.

Malack is the same, with the added factor that to be affected, he must have heard the spell, and be within the minimal radius. He probably wasn't.

Nale and Z were probably deafened, and maybe even blinded. Altough they are evil rivals (like Crystal), so they should be at least on the same level as Elan and V. It depends on how high is Durkon's level compared to them.

Sabine was probably banned. If she is lucky enough, she wasn't banned, but might be deafened and blinded.

The imp can also be banned if he is within the radius. If he wasn't banned, his level is not really high, so he might even be killed (altough this probably won't happen for plot reasons).

Kilkil doesn't seem to be a very high level, which means he might be paralyzed.

It seems to me the oots has gone through a huge boost in competence after book 4.


Hey, he completely outsmarted him in Cliffport.

True. But Nale seems to have a fatal flaw: he can't adapt and change his overly complicated plans when the oots does something he didn't predict.

[Velaryon]

I realize that Tarquin is extremely competent and high leveled, but I'm wondering why everyone says he seems to be unaffected by Holy Word. One of his hands was up to his ears and as previously mentioned, his leg is partly bent on his knees as if to support himself or avoid stumbling. As his mask obscures his face, we can't really be certain about how much of an annoyance the spell is, but I'd imagine that a completely unexpected pointblank auditory attack wouldn't be completely shrugged off.

I can totally get behind that he was one of least effected, along with the two behind the wall. But complete immunity? Gotta recall that this setting, while based heavily based on the DnD game, Holy Word probably isn't going to have their effects completely nullified just because Tarquin's theortical "Hit Dice" happens to match or nearly match Durkon's caster level. The effects would probably be more in line of varying hues of effectiveness, rather than the binary *insert effect if X < Y*.

It seems to me that when it comes to Tarquin, many people have a tendency to wildly overestimate his capabilities, both in terms of his level and what he knows/how smart he is. I believe I've even seen speculation in some threads that he might be a match for Xykon, which seems phenomenally unlikely to me. That he's significantly higher level than the Order seems to be taken for granted by most people. In actuality though, we don't have very much in the way of concrete information about Tarquin's power level.

I checked the Class and Level Geekery thread just in case, and there really is little in the way of confirmed information for him, so the assumption that he's significantly higher than the Order, let alone epic, seems rather unfounded to me.

[kierthos]

I'm thinking that the mummies (if that's what they are... which considering that's what their creator called them, should be accurate) are probably not destroyed.

Consider - Durkon must be at least 15th13th level, the minimum to cast Holy Word, but to destroy the mummies with it, he'd have to be 18th level, as mummies start at 8 HD. I don't quite think he's at 18th level yet, but I could be wrong.

Also, as undead, they're immune to the paralysis. However, they are blinded (not sure that means much to undead because they have Lifesight or whatever it's called) and deafened (which at least means that they can't hear the commands to do anything, so they should continue on their last orders.)

[stsasser]

But I think he is faking it.

Can anybody see his faking in the smoke or is he just that method?

[zimmerwald1915]

Consider - Durkon must be at least 15th level, the minimum to cast Holy Word, but to destroy the mummies with it, he'd have to be 18th level, as mummies start at 8 HD. I don't quite think he's at 18th level yet, but I could be wrong.
Holy Word's a level 7 spell, which puts Durkon's minimum level at 13. The argument that Durkon should be higher demands near-parity among the OOTS' levels, and does not depend on the capabilities Durkon has demonstrated.

[kierthos]

Holy Word's a level 7 spell, which puts Durkon's minimum level at 13. The argument that Durkon should be higher demands near-parity among the OOTS' levels, and does not depend on the capabilities Durkon has demonstrated.*facepalm* I keep doing that, I don't know why. Yes, 13th level. Which makes it even less likely that the mummies are destroyed or that Tarquin is affected.

[teratorn]

They had already spotted the traps and commanded the mummies to go around them. Then they stumbled onto them in the smoke.

Those traps? But then did Tarquin walk back? He was clearly close to biggest trapdoor.

[fan4battle]

This comic made me grin, nice to see the Order be on the higher end for once. :smallbiggrin:

[Chess435]

Wacky prediction time: Tarquin is deafened, but Iron Heart Surges it away. :smallwink:

[Jay R]

It amazes me how much time we can spend arguing over whether a character was more likely to say "me too" or "Nor I," after we've already been shown the answer by the person who in fact invented the character.

If your opinion of a character in OotS differs from the Giant's, then you are in fact mistaken - since the only knowledge you have about that character came from decisions he made and then chose to show you..

[Morgan Wick]

After finding out about the probable effects of the Holy Word, something tells me Xykon is due to show up soon. Also that Kilkil and Zzdtri are about to die, probably at Belkar's hands (at least in the former case).

[B. Dandelion]

It amazes me how much time we can spend arguing over whether a character was more likely to say "me too" or "Nor I," after we've already been shown the answer by the person who in fact invented the character.

If your opinion of a character in OotS differs from the Giant's, then you are in fact mistaken - since the only knowledge you have about that character came from decisions he made and then chose to show you..

I don't even think it was out of character but I can't get behind this at all. You think a creator can never derail his own creations? "In-character" is a subjective assessment just like "written well" or "written poorly". Do you think an author by definition writes his own characters well? I would think not. People find a character's behavior believable or they don't. If they find it not believable because it's not consistent with what's been established, you can't just invoke authorial fiat to make the subjective objective. You challenge the actual objective element -- there isn't any inconsistency. Zz'dtri's never talked enough to be established as a grammar pedant. The fact that V specifically was (in the Dragon Magazine strips) might suggest he'd be the exact opposite.

[Dudu]

Wacky prediction time: Tarquin is deafened, but Iron Heart Surges it away. :smallwink:
Really?

Tarquin is a Warblade? That's one of my favorite classes.

Of course, not as baddass as the cleric.
First tier Cleric FTW, Durkon!

[ti'esar]

Are we even arguing about whether it was "out of character"? As far as I know, the argument is about...

...uh....

Okay, I'm honestly stumped - what is the question here? Whether Z should have said "Nor I" instead of "Me too"? I genuinely have no idea.

[B. Dandelion]

Are we even arguing about whether it was "out of character"? As far as I know, the argument is about...

...uh....

Okay, I'm honestly stumped - what is the question here? Whether Z should have said "Nor I" instead of "Me too"? I genuinely have no idea.

Beats me. I'm sorry for participating in such a fundamentally silly discussion, I just dislike the argument that "characters are in-character by definition" wherever it comes up.

It's a great strip, too. Maybe we just get bored saying over and over again how awesome it is and need to invent things to argue over.

[Chess435]

Really?

Tarquin is a Warblade? That's one of my favorite classes.

Of course, not as baddass as the cleric.
First tier Cleric FTW, Durkon!

It's never been shown what class he is........ :smallwink:

[GSFB]

Just for giggles, let's throw everyone arguing grammar into a combat situation, surprise you with a devastating attack, and then see if what you yell in the thick of it is grammatically correct. Shall we?