Familiars and aging

[Lord Il Palazzo]

Thanks to some hoop-jumping and house-ruling, one of my PCs has a baby dragon (which is mostly a pseudodragon with a few bits of brass dragon thrown in) as a familiar. Are there any specific rules regarding familiars and aging? I'm assuming at least familiars can't die of old age as none of the default animals have life spans nearly long enough to keep up with a human, let alone a dwarf or elf but would like to know if familiars age at all.

I don't think the campaign is going to run long enough for it to come up, but I'd like to know to be safe. Oh and there may be an NPC for whom this info would be relevant. Anyways, thanks for your help.

[VGLordR2]

There aren't rules for advancing normal familiars. However, dragons age as they gain Hit Dice. Your familiar will have HD equal to your character. When the dragon reaches a certain number of HD, it will advance to the next age category. Also, it's cheesy, but Bestow Curse and the greater version thereof can advance a creature by three age categories between them. This will make your dragon nice and big. :smalltongue:

[Bronk]

Well, I would say how you deal with the familiar depends on whether it's based more an a pseudodragon or on a true dragon.

Normally, to get a pseudodragon familiar, a PC needs to have the 'improved familiar' feat and be at least caster level 7. They don't advance in age categories or in size, and as a familiar they wouldn't gain their own XP, so would only advance with bonuses gained from being a familiar. Any extra abilities or templates the base pseudodragon has would be up the the DM, possibly raising the minimum caster level. So, in this case, the dragon can serve as a familiar for as long as it lives... either its normal life span of 10-15 years, or indefinitely, if that's how you play the life span of a familiar.

Normally, to get a true dragon familiar (Draconomicon p141), you would need to speak 'draconic', have the 'dragon familiar' feat , have the same alignment as the chosen dragon (chaotic good for brass), and be at least caster level 9. Then, if the PC meets those requirements, they can obtain a brass dragon wyrmling as a familiar... but if it ever reaches the next age category of 'very young' it loses its familiar bond. Because of that rule, it would appear that the dragon familiar keeps aging, and in that case the time limit for your PC would be not more than 5 years (Draconomicon p12). No word is given on getting a replacement dragon familiar to replace the old one, so I guess it's left to the DM to decide if they need to take the feat again, although it says the original might stay friendly to the PC if it was treated well. Also, if it was cursed into an advanced age category, that might break the bond too.

So, those are the official rules. I'd be interested in hearing what you decide to do!

[Lord Il Palazzo]

There's been so much houseruling going into this familiar that it's a little tough to fit into official rules. The player had something particular he wanted in the familiar for fluff reasons so a lot of stuff got adjusted, traded out, and so forth. The player got the familiar in a heavily nerfed form at level 1 (it was pretty much a reskinned raven with a few dragon-y tweaks). The character took Improved Familiar and once the she hit level 7, the familiar started to gain pseudodragon features (the various immunities, telepathy, etc.) but didn't gain poison, getting in exchange a (very weak) breath weapon basically the same as a brass wyrmling's.

In terms of fluff, the familiar is a baby dragon rather than a pseudodragon, even if the model was more of a pseudodragon (we didn't know that the feat from Dragonomicon existed when the character was first created so Improved Familiar and a pseudodragon was the way we went.) As I said, I don't think the campaign's going to go on long enough for it to matter to this particular wizard and familiar pair.

Spoilers for my campaign. Uial and the rest of you, stay out!
The wizard's mentor, from whom she got the familiar gained immortality a few thousand years ago and had a dragon of the same kind when she (the mentor) was young. The wizard being immortal, the familiar has had time to age and I'm thinking that, for rule of cool, I'll let the familiar be a great wyrm based mostly on a brass dragon with a few pseudodragon traits (telepathy, mainly). The wizard and familiar haven't travelled together in ages (the dragon being gargantuan and having settled in to parent its own brood (from the descendents of which come the present PC's familiar) and the wizard mentor being named queen of her homeland.) This is why the PC wizard never met her mentor's familiar (though a few of its descendents are often around the mentor's lab.)

If the events of the campaign somehow stretch out enough that the PC wizard's dragon gains age categories, I'll roll with it, but it seems unlikely, as there are a couple rather immediate threats in the campaign that can't wait that long.

[Bronk]

That does sound pretty cool!

[NeedsAnswersNao]

However, dragons age as they gain Hit Dice.See the supermount record on these boards for how to best take advantage of this.

[Yuki Akuma]

Familiars don't gain hit dice - unlike Animal Companions, Paladin Special Mounts and Psicrystals.

They're simply treated as having as many hit dice as their master for the purposes of spells that only affect a certain number of HD and such.

So, no, a dragon familiar won't age ridiculously quickly as you level up.

[Ashtagon]

Familiars don't gain hit dice - unlike Animal Companions, Paladin Special Mounts and Psicrystals.

They're simply treated as having as many hit dice as their master for the purposes of spells that only affect a certain number of HD and such.

So, no, a dragon familiar won't age ridiculously quickly as you level up.

A dragon animal companion or special mount (or psicrystal?) wouldn't grow larger simply because the character gained levels. HD gained as a result of the dragon ageing should be counted separately from HD gained as a result of the character's class features.

[Yuki Akuma]

A dragon animal companion or special mount (or psicrystal?) wouldn't grow larger simply because the character gained levels. HD gained as a result of the dragon ageing should be counted separately from HD gained as a result of the character's class features.

I've seen this interpretation suggested a lot, and I agree with it, but I've never been able to find an actual rule reference.

Regardless, saying "Familiars don't gain HD" is more difficult to argue with, because the rules explicitly say this. :smallwink:

[Bronk]

Familiars don't gain HD as their master gets more powerful like an animal companion does... they are just treated as having the same HD as their master for spell effects and such. They are summoned as regular animals with average monster manual stats, become magical beasts (this might a reason for them not to age), and gain all the familiar benefits they're entitled to, which are all based on their master's levels and abilities. All this is in the SRD section on familiars.

The only reason a regular dragon familiar is different is because it is specifically mentioned that they still age (or at least, can still age) from wyrmling to very young... but that is when they cease to be a familiar.