PDA

View Full Version : Non-numeric character advancement



kieza
2012-07-26, 03:37 PM
What if character advancement didn't have numerical increases baked-in? That is, if gaining a level didn't improve HP, BAB, damage, or defenses, at least not via a flat bonus. What if it just gave you more opportunities to specialize in one area, or branch out into new ones?

Examples
-Instead of a wizard's fireball doing more damage at higher levels, he can learn to make it set people on fire, set the area on fire, not target allies, etc.
-Alternately, instead of improving a spell he already has, the wizard can learn a new one that does something completely different--but this doesn't increase the number of spells he can cast before getting tired.
-Or, the wizard could spend some time sparring with the Fighter, and pick up some better sword skills.

Under this paradigm, higher-level characters aren't godlike compared to lower-level ones--they don't have twenty times as many hit points, and they still stand a chance of missing with their attacks. In fact, lower-level characters still pose a threat to higher-level ones, especially in groups. The difference is in specialization/generalization: the high level specialist does interesting things on a critical hit and has ways to get several situational modifiers. The high level generalist has a technique to deal with any situation and can combine all of his techniques into deadly combinations.

Would people still play a system if you didn't get massive modifiers and become essentially godlike at high levels?

EDIT: And is there a system out there that does that, or would I need to make one up?

Impy
2012-07-26, 05:03 PM
You should check out the E6 rules for Pathfinder or 3.5. While they are still fundamentally numeric systems, they have a lot of the feel you've described.

Basically, in E6, characters who reach 6th level no longer advance in level, and instead gain a feat when they accumulate a certain amount of xp. (In 3.5, it was 5000, but Pathfinder usually uses a bit more.)

This makes long-time adventurers a little more powerful than other 6th level characters, but mostly makes them specialize and grow more complex instead.

kieza
2012-07-26, 05:15 PM
I've heard good things about E6 before. In fact, I've got a bare-bones variant of 4e written up, which was described as "E6 for 4E."

Are there any systems that were built that way from the ground-up, though?

Geostationary
2012-07-26, 05:21 PM
According to my contract, I will now talk about Nobilis, though it requires the disclaimer that the players are already godlike in power, so this may be less applicable.

So, non-numeric advancement: advancement in Nobilis works one of two ways: you either put character points from the advancement system into your character to improve Attributes (which are capped) or Gifts (independent powers), or what you do renders some change upon the world. You never gain more health unless something really strange happens, and most of your benefits come from your relationship with the world and various entities and factions. The end of a story arc won't be something like "You gain x Points and are now better" (though it can be), it'll usually be something like "You have brokered a peace between Heaven and Hell" or "You have destroyed your mortal enemy, the Power of Small Minty Things!"- your benefits are all social and based on the decisions you made in play, such as gaining the respect of factions you aided or the hate of those you royally ticked off.

There's also no reason a starting character couldn't defeat a "superior" foe, as much of combat consists of exploiting your enemy's weaknesses for your own gain. The system also makes it rather hard to kill many of your foes, so direct confrontation is rarely advisable first thing unless you have friends to help, and overwhelming the foe with power can be ineffectual depending on the precise nature of the enemy you face. There's also no requirement that you do level up Attributes or Gifts, except that they let you do more for less more easily.

Short Version: Nobilis gives most of its benefits through social interaction rather than "you now get +x to stat y", though you can still choose to do so. It also encourages clever thinking, as even beginning characters are credible threats to "higher-level" ones, especially in groups.

Hopefully that all made sense.

Tengu_temp
2012-07-26, 05:41 PM
There are many systems that don't even use levels, and where you can start at the top of your abilities if you wish or close to that. In those systems advancing usually means gaining more options instead of raw numerical power.

Yora
2012-07-27, 04:56 AM
Dragon Age RPG only increases hit points by 1d6 every level. Everything else only changes when you decide to increase your Strength or Dexterity.