What penalties would you asses to one player carrying another?

[Talakeal]

So the sorcerer in my group has a six strength and can't carry her own gear. Rather than ditching some gear, she has proclaimed that instead she will simply remain over encumbered and once combat starts cast a strength buff on herself.

Between combat she will have her fighter follower, who has plenty of encumbrance to spare, carry her and her gear everywhere. I asked why she couldn't simply have the fighter carry her extra gear (takes too long to hand off once combat starts) or buy a mule (waste of money).

I can't find anything in the rules against carrying another character, other than an overly strict reading of the mount rules which makes it impossible to drag an unconscious companion out of combat, but surely such a nonsensical plan has to have some penalty?

[AWiz_Abroad]

8gp for a mule is a waste of money????

She's probably carrying half the stuff in Shax's haversack. Could you persuade her that a mule is a tactical blocker as well as getting a monster to waste an attack chewing through the mule?

Also, suggest an additional "s" on assess.

[dextercorvia]

What is she carrying that she needs in combat? 6 Strength will let you carry a crossbow and spell component pouch. If she is 6th level, then she doesn't even need the crossbow. Tell her to do like every other caster, and pony up for a Handy Haversack.

For EQ she doesn't need often, then look into Hoard Gullet.

[hymer]

Oh, heck, don't give any penalties beyond carrying capacity. Seems like the player wants this to happen, considering the resistance to common sense.
Ask how exactly the carrying is going on, though, and make sure it's been thought through.
Some day the fighter is going down, and problems will arise on their own.

[Sudain]

She just needs to get hit 'accidentally' with a ray of enfeeblement.

[Ernir]

surely such a nonsensical plan has to have some penalty?

If the Fighter is strong enough to carry the Sorcerer without breaking a sweat, no, there shouldn't be. Encumbrance is not really a factor in D&D (although some claim this is already factored into the "weight" of items).

Keep in mind that high-strength D&D characters are ridiculously strong, and even more ridiculously resistant to fatigue. A high-strength first level core only Barbarian can beat a few olympic records. In unrelated sports. In the same day. While holding a two-handed sword and wearing studded leather.

[Lord Il Palazzo]

Oh, heck, don't give any penalties beyond carrying capacity. Seems like the player wants this to happen, considering the resistance to common sense.
Ask how exactly the carrying is going on, though, and make sure it's been thought through.
Some day the fighter is going down, and problems will arise on their own.Don't assess any statistical penalties (beyond adding her weight to the fighter's encumberence), but definitely have NPCs react appropriately to the sorcoress whose main means of transportation is piggy-back-ride. A little in-character ridicule may change her mind (and if not, at least it's a little extra comic relief.)

[Thomasinx]

Make sure the fighter can actually carry her.

Keep in mind the fighter would have to carry the sorc's full body-weight, in addition to all of the gear she is carrying/wearing.

This means that a fighter with 18 str can carry (with a heavy load) a max of 300 lbs. That includes his own gear/armor, the sorc, and the sorcs gear/armor. Unless the sorc is a really light race, I'd expect there's some significant weight there.

Movement speed is also slowed while encumbered.

[Slipperychicken]

Maybe she's sitting in a baby-carrier-like collection of straps (like that one midget in Beyond Thunderdome). In which case, she encumbers the Fighter about as much as an animated sack of potatoes. Remember that the Fighter will have movement penalties and extra Armor Check Penalty (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/carryingCapacity.htm) if he goes above a light load.

She may be targeted as an unattended item, and is in the Fighter's square. Remember, she's tied to the guy who wants to be hit. If that's not enough of a penalty, deny Dex-to-AC and make it a Full-Round action to detach herself.


You might want to break out the oft-forgotten rule of objects affected whenever the carrier rolls a natural 1 on a save (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#itemsSurvivingafteraSavingTh row). I'm sure she'll rethink the decision when she gets hit twice with a Fireball.

[INoKnowNames]

You might want to break out the oft-forgotten rule of objects affected whenever the carrier rolls a natural 1 on a save (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#itemsSurvivingafteraSavingTh row). I'm sure she'll rethink the decision when she gets hit twice with a Fireball.

Just my interpretation, but to do that to a player is a rather cruel use of Rules as Written.

Honestly, I don't see any reason why this should be an issue. Nothing wrong with a bridal carry. History's been all about less physical people paying grunts to do things like that... It's certainly not the most gamebreaking thing a sorcerer could do in this game...

If the Fighter has the strength to carry His Equipment, Her Equipement, and Her, I don't see what should get in the way of this.

[Forum Explorer]

The penalties are already in place. She has to waste a turn casting a strength buff on herself in combat that will barely be used.

Also her fighter is useless in every surprise round.

I guess I would add a -4 to move silently and hide while piggy backing.

[Bhaakon]

As long as the fighter's got the carrying capacity to spare, about the only thing I'd do is require him to use an arm to hold/steady the sorcerer. A person is not self-securing like a backpack, and I assume that there's no jury-rigged saddle holding her in place. So that would mean no shields, off-hand, or two-handed weapons.

[Ernir]

As long as the fighter's got the carrying capacity to spare, about the only thing I'd do is require him to use an arm to hold/steady the sorcerer. A person is not self-securing like a backpack, and I assume that there's no jury-rigged saddle holding her in place. So that would mean no shields, off-hand, or two-handed weapons.

Riding piggyback? :smalltongue:
If he's strong enough to lift the Sorceress overhead once, it's not difficult to set up.

Beware of slippery terrain, though. :smalleek:

[maysarahs]

What does she need solely for combat that weighs more than 20 lbs? Why can't she just give all the stuff she DOESN'T need during combat to the fighter? It's easy enough to access all those things when time isn't measured in rounds. Alternatively she needs to buy a Handy Haversack. If this is a big enough issue for her, the price is well worth the lack of issues.

[Averis Vol]

as long as he isnt fighting with her on his back i see no problem with her riding him. Though, if he tries to fight while she is on he's royally ****ed. it would be so hard to effectively fight with the weight balance issues.

[demigodus]

You might want to break out the oft-forgotten rule of objects affected whenever the carrier rolls a natural 1 on a save (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#itemsSurvivingafteraSavingTh row). I'm sure she'll rethink the decision when she gets hit twice with a Fireball.

hmmm, so an object is only effected by spells 1 out of 80 times (nat 1, then 1 in 4 chance).

I'm not sure how only having a 1 in 80 chance for fireball to effect you is a bad thing.

[roguemetal]

Is the fighter carrying the sorcerer, or is the sorcerer just riding? (climb/balance?) If the fighter is carrying them, be sure to consider them flat-footed until the sorcerer is put down. Second, check the weight-scores on page 162 PHB to ensure the fighter is able to carry them at all, and impose the necessary penalties. Other than that, I'd say the fighter is making any reflex save in the sorcerer's stead, be that for better or worse. (similar to fortitude saves on magical weapons) If they want to be treated as gear, they can be treated as gear.

[elonin]

The carried sorcerer would loose dex bonus to ac and saves. Also, would suffer penalties to hit whenever the fighter moves. Grapple penalties might also apply.

[awa]

people arnt objects their creatures so no double fire ball unless you feel the mounted character needs to be hit twice as well.
the caster is not grappling the fighter nor is she heavy enough to make him being flat footed
the fact that she need to waste a spell and a round before every combat is penalty enough.

edit even tied bound and gagged characters don't lose dex to saves only against attacks

[Reluctance]

I'm on the side that says the characters are nerfing themselves hard enough already. It sounds like one of those tricks that someone with no op-fu thinks that they've stumbled across something gamebreaking with. Punishing this just means they'll look elsewhere, and might stumble across something actually effective.

[rot42]

I might give the fighter a point or two of ACP if an elaborate "saddle" is involved, but I think for the most part the action penalty is enough. It gives the character a bit of a Professor Xavier feel.

edit: a point or two of ACP after the sorceress dismounts, because the fighter is still wearing an elaborate contraption that may restrict movement.

If you are willing to backport Pathfinder, they have muleback cords (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/advanced/magicItems/wondrousItems.html) that increase carrying capacity.

[Slipperychicken]

I guess I would add a -4 to move silently and hide while piggy backing.

I might give the fighter a point or two of ACP...


Encumbrance already gives you ACP, and reduces your speed (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/carryingCapacity.htm).



What if the Fighter pulls her around in a rickshaw (basically a person-drawn wagon) filled with her stuff? Keep the stuff in a bag so the fighter can pick the bag out of the rickshaw if he needs to? It would be a hell of a lot more dignified.


Why doesn't she cast Extended Mount (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/mount.htm)? At the minimum CL, that lasts you 12 hours. Once you hit CL4, it literally lasts the whole adventuring day (16h. Because you spend 8 hours sleeping and one hour preparing spells). Because she only has so many spells known, of course...

[Mnemnosyne]

Make sure the sorcerer and her equipment weigh a reasonable amount, too. Look at various height vs. weight charts and figure out from previous descriptions of the character, whether the weight she's given is a reasonable weight for her description or not (i.e, if she's tall and not stick-as-a-board-thin, then she doesn't weigh some feather-weight amount). Then, make sure you apply full encumbrance and armor check penalties.

Also, ask how the sorcerer is riding the fighter, exactly. Again, consider their heights and such in this equasion. If it sounds too ridiculous, you seem to be well within your rights to assess additional ACP and perhaps require occasional balance checks whenever the fighter is trying to move at his full movement speed with such an awkwardly distributed load. Now, if they make some kind of weird 'saddle' contrivance, then I suppose it could be build reasonably enough to make it not require balance checks, though an additional ACP still seems reasonable.

[Telonius]

Point in favor of the plan, from the Fighter's point of view: Sorceress, probably very high Charisma, will have her arms wrapped around him for the majority of their adventuring time together.

[INoKnowNames]

Point in favor of the plan, from the Fighter's point of view: Sorceress, probably very high Charisma, will have her arms wrapped around him for the majority of their adventuring time together.

Not to mention he, depending on how he carries her, will have a similar position in terms of contact.

To be honest, I actually set up something like this in one of my games. A Warhulk & Cloistered Cleric / Bard, but the principle is the same.

[Slipperychicken]

Point in favor of the plan, from the Fighter's point of view: Sorceress, probably very high Charisma, will have her arms wrapped around him for the majority of their adventuring time together.

Even if it doesn't result in the Fighter getting laid with a hot Sorceress (and to be fair, it really ought to), it will be unbelievably cute. No matter how strong you are, carrying a woman with you 24/7 takes dedication.


Not to mention all the quips to be made about the two being "attached at the hip", whether they're romantically involved or not. Also, envious female NPCs joking with their husbands/boyfriends "why don't you carry me like that?".

[INoKnowNames]

Wait... which trope is being used here? (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BridalCarry) 'cause there are lots of ways this (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PiggybackCute)could be roleplayed and rollplayed... (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OverTheShoulderCarry)

[Greyfeld85]

Like in grappling, any attacks aimed at the character or her pseudo-mount should have a 50% chance of hitting the wrong target while she's being carried.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Something something automatically fails Con checks, automatically fatigued, etc. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/movement.htm#mountedMovement)

I'm sure the Sorcerer can reduce the amount of combat-necessary gear he's carrying to within his medium load, and hand off the don't-need-in-combat gear to the Fighter to carry for him. Does he really think he needs to have all of his torches, tent, bedroll, rope, manacles, skill-check-tools, etc. on his person during combat?

[INoKnowNames]

Something something automatically fails Con checks, automatically fatigued, etc. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/movement.htm#mountedMovement)

That's for miles and miles worth of movement at a forced march or hustle, which would be tiresome for even people walking...

[Slipperychicken]

Something something automatically fails Con checks, automatically fatigued, etc. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/movement.htm#mountedMovement)


..if he's Hustling (jogging) for 2 hours with a Sorceress on his back, and doesn't get any healing.


Honestly, I don't get the problem with letting this happen. If the Sorceress were a corpse, statue, or baby, there wouldn't be any issue carrying her around. Just have enemies target the squishy Sorceress who got herself into melee. She'll regret it after she takes a few sword blows to the face.

[RandomLunatic]

I will go with the "She is punishing herself" crowd, since it will take her and arguably her cohort (depending on how the cohort carries her) a round just to get into action once init is rolled. Just make sure you enforce the encumbrance rules, hit them with surprise attacks a few times, and throw in off-color comments from NPCs about the sorceress riding the fighter (c'mon, the punchlines write themselves :smallbiggrin:).

Also, please tell me where you find these people, so I can avoid it like the plague.

[Tyndmyr]

Carrying a person takes a hand(unless you have other carrying arrangements, like a saddle, or strap), and induces no penalties provided the carrying char is still at a light load.

If the weight puts the person at a heavier encumbrance level, the listed penalties accrue as normal.

Note that if you wish to be treated as mounted, rather than merely being carried, additional rules come into play. The above is all RAW.


Also, I'm a bit surprised by the people who find this unusual. Henchmen, familiars, mounts, etc carrying chars is something I've seen often. The necromancer riding on his undead minion, the artificer riding a golem...this is just fun and games.