Need help designing army crippling encounters

[Averis Vol]

Hi everyone, my RL group just reached the first big plot point in the campaign.

The group are Soldiers in the Vel' Varan army and they are privy to information about a potential invasion on one of the many large settlements near the border of the country. So they traveled for a month and a half cross country, facing many encounters both good and bad along the way, and are rapidly coming to the town and the date the attack will be (It's effectively november 2nd and the attack will be happening on the 19th, they are a little behind schedule as they left they're captain stoned 3 days back so they had to go rescue him, only to get their asses beat on by his new animal companion) but I digress.

So now I know that I don't want them to get bogged down in sluggish roll and hit that would be required in a mass battle, so I figured I would send them off on special missions to destroy supplies or something. The only thing is I can't decide what would be best for them to do. So what do you guys think would be a proper set of encounters for a fourth level party to face; whether it be destroying supplies, setting free the enemy cavalry, etc etc.

Thanks in advance, and I apolgize if this is a bit hard to read.

[Cespenar]

If I'm not mistaken, there's a section in Complete Warrior (I guess) that gives these kinds of ideas about warfare campaigning. Might want to take a look at that.

Regardless, to name some cliches apart from destroying supplies:

-Taking out enemy scouts to cripple their recon
-Scouting around, mapping the surroundings and keeping an eye out for enemy surprises
-Kidnapping/assassinating mid-level enemy leaders (captains, lieutenants, etc.)
-Disrupting enemy reinforcements
-Hit&run the enemy camps at night to rob them of good sleep

Or, an even more dangerous ordeal:

-Disguise as enemy soldiers and infiltrate their army

[Unseenmal]

I've posted this a few times on these forums when someone asks a similar question....Here (ENWorld) (http://www.enworld.org/forum/local_links.php?catid=2&linkid=1)

I've used this a few times to great effect. It spells out the different things the PCs can do to affect the war. Missions, Sabotage, Assassinations, Spying, etc. You can surely add your own but it gives a good starting point.

The war is fought based on total "Victory" points. Each mission the PC's perform gains them points while the passage of time gains the enemy points. You set the total number of points needed for victory. The page sets it at 20 for victory. You start the PCs at 10 points. Each mission grants points based on difficulty and success/failure. The passage of time automatically causes points to be removed (3/day). This is to show that the enemy is also doing stuff to try to win the war.

It also gives daily events that can take place to affect the war. These events can either help the PCs or help their enemy. It's all up to the dice gods.

There is even a sample battle in the page to give you an idea for how it would run.

Basically, I LOVE this page for running large scale war. :smallbiggrin:

[Slipperychicken]

How trusted are the PCs? What does their commander think of them?


If they're perceived as very strong and sneaky, they can break the chain of command by killing important folk like commanders.

If they're just strong, they'll more likely be used as shock-troopers, held in reserve until a crucial point in the battle, then sent in to "nova", hopefully routing the enemy.

If the enemies have "hero" units (or even generically-strong things like Trolls), the PCs can be sent to counter them, duking it out in the middle of the action.

If they're fast/sneaky, they might be used to intercept messengers, interrupting communications (assuming magic isn't being used for communication). They could also harass archers, artillery, and magicians. If magic is hard-to-learn in your setting, killing a few of them can turn the tide, but they'll be well-guarded, and will flee at the first sign of trouble.

[Rejakor]

I've successfully run mass battles by handwaving the fighting until something dangerous happens. For a party of 6th level PCs, holding a 10' wide gateway against level 1 and 2 warriors is not dangerous, at all. You can be like 'roll to see how well you do' and deduct some pings worth of damage and have them roll to see how many they cut down etc, but you only roll out the battlemap when something actually DANGEROUS happens.

War Ogres are brought up to contest the gateway. The army falls back and a wall of archers say 'hi' (this could be solved without rolling, even, by everyone ducking out of range and then coming back when the infantry roll in again). Scaling ladders are put to the walls and the militia manning the walls are being overwhelmed on both sides of the gatehouse - PCs need to go and help, but how will they hold the gate AND do that? Siege weaponry are hitting the walls and lofting flaming barrels over the walls into the city - someone needs to go stop that somehow, probably by flying or invisibility or burrowing or some combination of those. Enemy wizards have summoned a massive creature and it's creating havoc in the rear lines and stopping troops from moving to reinforce positions on the wall! An elite force of goblin sappers accidentally broke ground in the courtyard, and now they're trying to fire the support beams in their tunnels - if they do, the wall will come down! ENEMY DRAGON! ENEMY DRAGON! The enemy has fallen back, but they've sent out a single champion and say they'll spare the town if he can be defeated in single combat.

Etc. You can mix it up with multiple small fights at the same time (wall being overwhelmed at 2 points, also gate must be held) or with one big one (Umber Hulk in the wounded camp!). A good trick is to have someone assign the PCs to doing something relatively important, and then have someone show up with other troops to take over for them while sending them to somewhere something serious is going down. Another good trick is to have someone assign the PCs somewhere, and then have something obviously bad for the PCs side happening in clear view of the PCs, and then have them have to choose between following orders or stopping the thing - and then if they all go off and stop the thing, have calamity happen because they weren't at their posts.

[Averis Vol]

Okay, lots of stuff to go over.



If I'm not mistaken, there's a section in Complete Warrior (I guess) that gives these kinds of ideas about warfare campaigning. Might want to take a look at that.

Regardless, to name some cliches apart from destroying supplies:

-Taking out enemy scouts to cripple their recon
-Scouting around, mapping the surroundings and keeping an eye out for enemy surprises
-Kidnapping/assassinating mid-level enemy leaders (captains, lieutenants, etc.)
-Disrupting enemy reinforcements
-Hit&run the enemy camps at night to rob them of good sleep

Or, an even more dangerous ordeal:

-Disguise as enemy soldiers and infiltrate their army

These were the things i was talking about, thank you!


I've successfully run mass battles by handwaving the fighting until something dangerous happens. For a party of 6th level PCs, holding a 10' wide gateway against level 1 and 2 warriors is not dangerous, at all. You can be like 'roll to see how well you do' and deduct some pings worth of damage and have them roll to see how many they cut down etc, but you only roll out the battlemap when something actually DANGEROUS happens.

I will keep this in mind for a Siege if and when it comes, but this is an olde style meet at dawn and the better prepared side will win battle; though this does give me some ideas. I planned it to be just human warriors, I forgot how big a part monsters played in the big bad guys evil scheme.


How trusted are the PCs? What does their commander think of them?


If they're perceived as very strong and sneaky, they can break the chain of command by killing important folk like commanders.

If they're just strong, they'll more likely be used as shock-troopers, held in reserve until a crucial point in the battle, then sent in to "nova", hopefully routing the enemy.

If the enemies have "hero" units (or even generically-strong things like Trolls), the PCs can be sent to counter them, duking it out in the middle of the action.

If they're fast/sneaky, they might be used to intercept messengers, interrupting communications (assuming magic isn't being used for communication). They could also harass archers, artillery, and magicians. If magic is hard-to-learn in your setting, killing a few of them can turn the tide, but they'll be well-guarded, and will flee at the first sign of trouble.

They are relatively well trusted, they were from a farming community up north, normal place with absolute nothing special about it, and were drafted into the military by King Eric Wolfsbane. so they travel for a few months to their station and another two weeks in they successfully stave off an ambush on their main riverwatch outpost. they were commended and pulled into a crazy ploy by their superior Captain Azrim to recruit a clan of barbarians who leaved in a nearby jungle. we skip forward and they yet again manage to earn the respect of the barbarians and fend off another ambush that threatened to burn down the entire civilization. they do more stuff and gain the respect of a gnome thurge, one of the few mages outside of Kupolen, even though they caused 20k worth of property damage. so yea, all in all they are quite trusted thus far by their immediate higher up. high command still doesn't know them but Captain Azrim will definitely vouch for them.

As for the characters, I have a human barbarian specialied in the greatspear with max ranks in hide\move silently (It fit thematically with his backstory so I gave them to him as class skills) then theres a monk (First time player, actually quite quickly asked me if he could go tosh and I squee'd a bit) next there is a fighter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=238078)\rogue going into assassin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=231125&highlight=retooled+assassin) He's more experienced and is probably going to end as a half fiend. then we have a paladin who likes to poke stuff with a big sharp piece of metal, and is quite effective, and is more so the moral compass along with....The dwarf fighter going into battle smith. lastly we have a swift hunter. hes a new guy in the group, it was originally a two group campaign but group b was flaky so this guy got ported into group a. So thats the group, if you all can think of anything special for this group I would love to hear it.

[Rejakor]

Works just fine for a mass battle.

Have the PCs be given orders, like, 'form up with Lord So-and-So and protect the left' and then you just handwave them holding the line, and only turn it into actual combat when something happens, like Lord So-and-So's poorly trained peasants get broken by some bastard with a big axe just cleaving through them in a baresark rage, so, clearly, the PCs need to do something about that - but a squad of red-armoured soldiers are supporting him, and using Teamwork benefits to stymie the PCs!

For extra dire times, again, just have the Left be doing fine (after a few combats from the PCs) but the Center or the Right collapsing, or files of enemy cavalry appearing from the rear and shaking out for a charge. A good way to shock the PCs is to have them succeed, but elsewhere the enemy succeeds, and they aren't able to stop a general rout for their side. Nothing like watching 'your' side get butchered like dogs and having to run and hide just to survive, and knowing that the enemy army is going to sack the **** out of your homeland to get your morale down and ready for a triumphant return.

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

I'd recommend looking through Heroes of Battle and Red Hand of Doom, which has a really nice Victory Point system and should give you a pretty decent outline of what you're looking for.

[Averis Vol]

thank you all for the help! this is going to be happening most likely this saturday, so i'll post how it goes (For any who care).