NO PHB race or class 3.5 ed. campaign; need help! [Archive]

Yuric the Bold

2012-07-27, 04:20 AM

Okay Playground,

My buddy has decided he wants to start a fresh campaign; 3.5ed. for D&D. The premise? No PHB races or classes. He wants to see how the dynamics change without the quintessential classes like fighter and cleric, etc. As well as not everyone playing a human for extra feats and skill points.

I have a premise for an outdoorsman type without many social graces.
I want to use the Shifter race from Eberron and max out his physical combat abilities through his shifter feats and as well as class choices.

I need all your brains together on this and your help. Please.

I would like to take the prestige classes of Weretouched Master as well as War Shaper. These are both good fits to boost combat abilities with the shifting. I am uncertain at this time if he will let me dip into Barbarian for the rage at this point; but it may be available after characters gain levels. Assume for the moment, NO.
I want to really twink this character out and have it be a huge beast in hand to hand combat as well as if need be with a weapon.

Your assistance is appreciated!
Yuric

VGLordR2

2012-07-27, 04:34 AM

I'm not exactly sure what the prerequisites for Weretouched Master or Warshaper are. However, I think that a Totemist would be an excellent choice for your build concept. It probably won't qualify you for the PrC's, but it deserves at least a once-over.

Amoren

2012-07-27, 04:37 AM

Hmmm... My first suggestion is go a warblade from Tome of Battle, and later dip into the Bloodclaw Master prestige class. Bloodclaw Master's signature ability (removing the twf penalties) won't matter if you're using natural attacks, but it gives you additional uses of shifting as per the shifter adaption. A lot of the Tiger Claw abilities are probably right up your alley, too (think feral lunging on top of someone and clawing them to death, alley).

I had a pretty effective warblade build using weretouched master for it, although I believe it used two levels of barbarian in it to get Improved Uncanny Dodge at level 4. But it should be good for four levels, even though the initiative penalty hurts with Warblade, but its not too bad.

Unarmed Swordsage is another choice. I'm not entirely sure on the legality of it, but you could probably get a full natural attack routine in along with a full iterative of unarmed strikes (since you can use your feet/knees/elbows for unarmed strikes, thus freeing your hands for natural attacks).

I think those two would be your best bet for combat. Although the Totemist (Magic of Incarnum) and Binder (Tome of Magic) might make for effective melee characters, I've never played them though.

Lonely Tylenol

2012-07-27, 04:44 AM

Fist of the Forest is also a more than suitable option in this case, granting you your CON bonus to AC, unarmed strike advanced to 1d10 (2d8 large), uncanny dodge, 2/day feral trance, and other, lesser bonuses in just three levels. The feat requirements (Improved Unarmed Strike, Power Attack, Great Fortitude) are a little steep if you can't dip Monk, however (a 1-level Monk of the Overwhelming Attack dip grabs you 2/3).

GenghisDon

2012-07-27, 04:52 AM

How about Scout for your basic outdoorsman? Spirit Shaman or the OA Shaman (river/nature/travel/wood domains?) are the other forest types that come to mind...full casters, but they could work for you. Factorum is possible.

I can't see what swordsages or warblades have to do with outdoorsmanship, and MOI burns my brain so I have no (+) comment on the Totemist (maybe it is fine). Binder seems unlikely as well.

Per your DM's demand, barbarian is out, correct?

weretouched master seems easy, BAB +4, know nature 5 survival 8 & a shifter feat.

nature's warrior BAB+4 ,any N, know nature 8, know planes 2, survival 8, track, wild shape is almost as easy.

Diovid

2012-07-27, 05:07 AM

If you want a rage-like ability and don't have access to the Barbarian, Fist of the Forest (Complete Champion) and Wild Runner (Races of the Wild) might be options. Wild Runner has being an elf as an entry requirement but the adaptation section mentions non-elf Wild Runners being possible. Animal Lord (Complete Adventurer) has a minor shifting-like ability but I don't think that's any use to you.

danzibr

2012-07-27, 07:21 AM

I agree with the first two posts. I have a good build for a Warforged Totemist (if you're interested), and I'm also a big fan of the ToB stuff.

Yuric the Bold

2012-07-27, 08:52 AM

silverwolfer

2012-07-27, 09:19 AM

who needs phb , you have tob for your melee, and monster races for your casters

Namfuak

2012-07-27, 09:28 AM

Well my DM grew a set of very timid nutz and said the campaign is going to take place in Greyhawk so no outside source material. I called shenanigans and said the campaign is going to be LAME SAUCE.

More than a little cheesed off. Now I really want to make something to just wreck shop in his campaign.

Okay Playground; kid gloves off.

Let's get silly.

Gray Elf Archivist? Dip Sacred Exorcist for a turn pool, and go crazy with DMM.

Note: I'm not going to bother trying to dissuade you, if you've been on this forum for more than 2 days you've seen every reason for not doing this and solution under the sun for reasoning with your DM.

Urpriest

2012-07-27, 09:43 AM

Shifters are in the MM3, so it's not entirely ruled out. You'll be more limited on Shifter Feats, though, and no Weretouched Master.

GenghisDon

2012-07-27, 10:28 PM

Shifter flavour moreover makes them seem at least possible in any setting where there has been lycanthropes for some time. Not that I've ever used them, as characters or monsters, but I'm not hating on them either.

Greyhawk is pretty awesome, but if you were jazzed to play Eberron, I can see your frustration. It's still not worth it to try & wreck the game though, even if you are mad at the DM, there are other players too.

Greyhawk does seem an odd choice for an all variant/optional race/class game though. Most of the silly (sorry) races & classes of later 3.5 make little sense there. Shifters, as I mentioned above, are one of the exceptions, it's easy to imagine them having been there all along. Dragonborn, Karsites (an FR only race if there ever was one), goliaths, raptorans, dromites & so on, well, not so much.

That brings me to the thought: "D&D just has too damn many races"

and further: If your DM wants a "different" game, why not make it different. Homebrew & REMOVE all the hackneyed fantasy races like dwarves, elves & so on. Make some room for "new blood" & see what happens.

gorfnab

2012-07-28, 12:06 AM

No core, Greyhawk, and gloves off...

Warlock 4/ Binder 1/ Ur-Priest 2/ Eldritch Disciple 2/ Hellfire Warlock 3/ Eldritch Disciple 8
or
Warlock 4/ Binder 1/ Ur-Priest 2/ Eldritch Disciple 2/ Hellfire Warlock 3/ Eldritch Disciple 2/ Mindbender (with Mindsight feat) 1/ Eldritch Disciple 5

Whisper Gnome Beguiler 5/ Mindbender 1/ Beguiler 2/ Shadowcraft Mage 5/ Mage of the Arcane Order 7

Wu-Jen 5/ Warblade 1/ Jade Phoenix Mage 2/ Abjurant Champion 4/ Jade Phoenix Mage 8

deuxhero

2012-07-28, 12:40 AM

Steel Dragon is another potential option if you can use the setting agnostic and more powerful web article version. Was Loredrake from DoE or somewhere else?

Didn't MM3 give some of the Eberron races setting agnostic status? Granted you lose a lot of their support options, but it is open.

Ryu_Bonkosi

2012-07-28, 03:56 PM

I have been planning on doing this with a RHoD campaign I have in the works. I would suggest an Azurin Totemist, crazy amounts of natural attacks.

Yuric the Bold

2012-07-28, 04:09 PM

So my DM is going to allow me to make a Shifter. I like Totemist; the synergies with the extra natural attacks and the fact I can get more arms (thx Girallon) is just silly.

Any suggestions how I can take it further?

Just remember no PHB classes. And no ECS PrCs. :(

Hiro Protagonest

2012-07-28, 04:33 PM

Gloves off?

Spell to Power Erudite. Someone better versed in them can give specifics.

Otherwise, if you don't want to completely break the game, azurin totemist (Magic of Incarnum). You're a human. Except instead of skill points, you get an essentia point. Which is either better, or worse, depending on which soulmelds you invest it in.

And I don't think Archivist will be at full power without clerics and wizards to scribe scrolls.

And it is ridiculously easy to get all the needed ground without core classes. Even easier than in a core-only game.

Beatstick: Warblade, crusader, and totemist are all better than fighter. CW samurai is worse, but without Zhentarim Soldier available, it's the best way to optimize intimidate (although a crusader is strictly better for lockdown builds). Swordsage is... iffy. It's either a striker that hopes it can kill the enemy first (although with two good saves and Diamond Mind, as well as the Shadow Hand teleportation line, it's a surprisingly good anti-caster), a battlefield control guy with lots of Setting Sun stuff, or just a rogue replacement. Swashbuckler is worse. Hexblade is worse, but it's great as a two or three level multiclass. Lawful Incarnate has two sources of attack bonuses, readily making up for low BAB, but it's more of a fifth wheel kind of guy who picks soulmelds around what the rest of the party has. Good Incarnate has great potential for AC optimization, but it requires a lot of work just to get its attack bonus up to par, and it's like the lawful Incarnate in its fifth wheel status. Soulborn is worse, since about the only thing remotely worth it is Thunderstep Boots, which it doesn't get before a warblade or crusader who takes Shape Soulmeld anyway. Soulknife is worse. Divine Mind is worse. Ardent and psychic warrior are better.

Skillmonkey: Swordsage, factotum, beguiler, totemist, incarnate, scout, lurk, psychic rogue. Spellthief isn't really worth it, at all, if you want spells, play a factotum, lurk, or psychic rogue. Lurk is worse than psychic rogue, but still decent compared to regular rogue. Ninja is a worse rogue.

Caster: Psion, Wilder (which I don't recommend, since Psion is strictly better), Favored Soul, Mystic (from some dragon magazine), Spirit Shaman, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Wu Jen, Shugenja, Archivist. Those are your options for casters that are remotely in the range of wizard/sorcerer/cleric/druid level of power. Warmage and Healer suffer from Crippling Overspecialization, but it's even worse since a Focused Evoker is flat-out better than the warmage, due to the fact that it still has access to most of its schools, and also has the good Evocation stuff warmage doesn't get (Wall of Force, the Bigby's Hand line). Healer isn't appreciably better at healing than any other divine caster, and healing is secondary to buffing anyway.

deuxhero

2012-07-29, 12:15 AM

Archivist can get help from Chameleon (1-6) or Warlock (all) and still get any spell they want.

Yuric the Bold

2012-07-29, 04:13 AM

So after some conversation with my DM; I have decided on a half giant psychic warrior. Any ideas on how to min/max the crap out of this?
I will of course ask the DM about paying off the level adjustment presented in UA.
I have never played any of the psychic classes before and this is the first time any of my D&D compadres is allowing it in the mix. Normally we just ignored the hell outta psionics. (which I hated)
I have been devouring the boards in search of good psychic builds; nothing too heavy on cheese or KoS builds; but something solid and fun to play.
Any ideas or suggestions?
Thanks.

Of course my other idea is for a cannibalistic (in the respect he eats humanoids) halfling who worships Nerull. Either way I have to fulfill the tank style role for the party as well as dish out some respectable damage.

Ramshack

2012-07-29, 11:09 AM

Tyndmyr

2012-07-29, 11:50 AM

Kane0

2012-07-29, 07:37 PM

Is there any restriction against homebrew?

Cause you could emulate your woodsman lacking social graces with something like a (shameful self plug) Theg (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12839824&postcount=9) Savage (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=245830).

Kuulvheysoon

2012-07-29, 07:47 PM

Skillmonkey: Swordsage, factotum, beguiler, totemist, incarnate, scout, lurk, psychic rogue. Spellthief isn't really worth it, at all, if you want spells, play a factotum, lurk, or psychic rogue. Lurk is worse than psychic rogue, but still decent compared to regular rogue. Ninja is a worse rogue.

Caster: Psion, Wilder (which I don't recommend, since Psion is strictly better), Favored Soul, Mystic (from some dragon magazine), Spirit Shaman, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Wu Jen, Shugenja, Archivist. Those are your options for casters that are remotely in the range of wizard/sorcerer/cleric/druid level of power. Warmage and Healer suffer from Crippling Overspecialization, but it's even worse since a Focused Evoker is flat-out better than the warmage, due to the fact that it still has access to most of its schools, and also has the good Evocation stuff warmage doesn't get (Wall of Force, the Bigby's Hand line). Healer isn't appreciably better at healing than any other divine caster, and healing is secondary to buffing anyway.

...You don't play Spellthief for the spells, man. You play it for Steal (and Absorb!) Spell (and Master Spellthief cheese)

And I believe that Mystic is from the Dragonlance Campaign Setting.

Yuric the Bold

2012-07-30, 07:49 AM

Well I decided on a Half-Giant Psychic Warrior.
My stats at level 1 (ECL 2) are as follows.
STR 20 DEX 16 CON 15 INT 14 WIS 14 CHA 11
Not sure if I want to juggle the stats around or not.
Right now I am not feeling the spiked chain AoO monster.

sonofzeal

2012-07-30, 08:25 AM

...You don't play Spellthief for the spells, man. You play it for Steal (and Absorb!) Spell (and Master Spellthief cheese)

And I believe that Mystic is from the Dragonlance Campaign Setting.
...unless you're using the Trickster variant, in which case you have Bard casting except off a much better list. You trade a lot out to get it, but it fits the class a whole lot better.

Nerd648

2012-07-30, 08:30 AM

I want to say the power is called Claws of the Beast. If I correctly remember, then it is a low level power that you can augment to produce some killer weapons. I had a friend who focused on this power and it was awesome. He carried no weapons and would just manifest the power and kill everything.

Also, Knowledge skills can bother the crap out of your DM. If he wants to tyr to introduce something the characters haven't heard of, just roll a d20 and learn what you can.

I understand that you are mad at your DM, but I really do not recommend trying to break his campaign. Yes, he does have an rather lame sounding campaign planned based on the sources, but just talk to him about his reasons for this. I GMed a Star Wars campaign and one player got bored and decided to destroy everything I planned, eventually others joined him and it really sucked. Calm negotiations are really the best way to settle things.

Psyren

2012-07-30, 08:40 AM

I agree with the first two posts. I have a good build for a Warforged Totemist (if you're interested), and I'm also a big fan of the ToB stuff.

I'm playing a WF Totemist right now; I'd be very interested in that build of yours :smallsmile:

Yuric the Bold

2012-07-30, 09:11 AM

My DM has a huge hate on for Warforged. Simply because in my campaign a friend is playing one and it annoys the crap out of his Scout/Ranger swifthunter build. So no Eberron material... although I can use the shifter from the MM3.
Which means no feats from that setting unless I get approval from him first.

I am sticking with my Half Giant. I rolled excellent stats.
18, 18, 14, 14, 13 and 11.

I am debating in my mind whether or not to do the spiked chain and dominate thru AoO and Imp Trip and Knockdown.
The sheer level of silly it can achieve at higher levels cannot be denied.
Not sure if it is the flavor for my character I want though.

Half giants are not very pious and have no love for gods. Our group is joking around with the idea that we are cultists of Vecna. I suggested cannibals instead. The Dread Necromancer is not happy about the idea of us eating his potential army fodder.

Psyren

2012-07-30, 09:22 AM

18 Str (20)
18 Wis
14 Con (16)
14 Dex (12)
13 Int
11 Cha

Be sure to check out zugschef's handbook (can't link from here.)

danzibr

2012-07-30, 10:02 AM

I'm playing a WF Totemist right now; I'd be very interested in that build of yours :smallsmile:
I should've said I only have it planned up to 12 for the feats and whatnot. Considered going Barb and Totem Rager, but currently I have in mind Totemist 1-20.

Anyway, it'd be something like... assuming feats are allowed, 32 point buy:
stats: 16, 12, 18, 10, 12, 8
level 1: Adamantite Body, Jaws of Death, Expanded Soulmeld Capacity
level 3: Multiattack
level 6: Improved Multiattack
level 9: Double Chakra
level 12: Second Slam.

Shape Wormtail Belt, Blink Shirt, bind Girallon Arms, Lamia Belt (to Totem at level 9). So right, it's a rather incomplete build, but some highlights:

At level 1, you have some great AC, but won't be doing much.
At level 2 you get those Girallon Arms, but you probably won't be hitting much thanks to the penalties.
At level 3 it picks up. You have a bite, a slam and 4 arms to attack with (depending on how your DM rules it; I think of slams as like shoulder ramming, but some may not let you do claw attacks and slams).
At level 6 your attack penalty disappears (maybe you can find a better feat here though).
At level 9 you pick up 2 claw attacks.
At level 12 you pick up a second slam.

If at all possible, convince your DM to throw in the minor artifact that lets your character fly and gives you two buffet attacks. It's from Races of Eberron page 177, called the Winged Cape. The flying is awesome of course (120 ft, perfect maneuverability!), but more importantly (actually it's probably less important, but whatevs), you get two wing buffet attacks as secondary attacks dealing 1d10 bludgeoning damage.

So ideally you have 1 bite, 2 slams, 4 claws (hands), 2 claws (feet), 2 wings. Throw in some pounce, bam. Not as good as an uber-charger, but full of cool.

EDIT: Actually, it says "artifact component" so maybe no minor artifact.

Yuric the Bold

2012-07-30, 10:20 AM

Problem is that you cannot access ANY of the PHB classes ever in this campaign. Hence the reason I was looking at classes like Totemist and Psychic Warrior. So taking a dip class like Barbarian is not possible.

While Totemist rocks; it reminds me a bit of the Warlock. Don't ask how; it just does. LOL

I want to try something different with the Psychic Warrior.

danzibr

2012-07-30, 11:03 AM

Togo

2012-07-30, 11:39 AM

The obvious approach is to find a p-class you want to play, and then work out what non-core base class, monster race or templates you need to qualify for it.

Kuulvheysoon

2012-07-30, 12:03 PM

(...)

If at all possible, convince your DM to throw in the minor artifact that lets your character fly and gives you two buffet attacks. It's from Races of Eberron page 177, called the Winged Cape. The flying is awesome of course (120 ft, perfect maneuverability!), but more importantly (actually it's probably less important, but whatevs), you get two wing buffet attacks as secondary attacks dealing 1d10 bludgeoning damage.

So ideally you have 1 bite, 2 slams, 4 claws (hands), 2 claws (feet), 2 wings. Throw in some pounce, bam. Not as good as an uber-charger, but full of cool.

EDIT: Actually, it says "artifact component" so maybe no minor artifact.

Binding Sphinx Claws to your hands chakra gives you pounce with natural weapons only.

For easier wing buffets, try and convince your DM to let you use the Chaos Roc Wings Soulmeld from one of the Dragon magazines (DR336?). It's non-lethal, however, unless you bind it to a chakra.

Although it IS Dragon material, it's more likely to fly than giving your character a artifact.

danzibr

2012-07-30, 02:45 PM

Binding Sphinx Claws to your hands chakra gives you pounce with natural weapons only.

For easier wing buffets, try and convince your DM to let you use the Chaos Roc Wings Soulmeld from one of the Dragon magazines (DR336?). It's non-lethal, however, unless you bind it to a chakra.

Although it IS Dragon material, it's more likely to fly than giving your character a artifact.
Yeah, but you probably won't be getting your 4 Girallon Claws.

And thanks! I had no idea there was such a thing. I'll go look that up.

And yeah... hoping for an artifact is kinda... yeah.

Draz74

2012-07-30, 02:47 PM

I am sticking with my Half Giant. I rolled excellent stats.
18, 18, 14, 14, 13 and 11.

I am debating in my mind whether or not to do the spiked chain and dominate thru AoO and Imp Trip and Knockdown.
The sheer level of silly it can achieve at higher levels cannot be denied.
Not sure if it is the flavor for my character I want though.

The two most powerful directions for a PsyWarrior to take are the "silly" tripping/AoO expertise, or the Claws-of-the-Beast-do-a-million-damage size augmentation route. But if you don't take either of those, you can still be pretty effective with pretty much any fighting style you choose. PsyWars are hard to mess up (as long as you have good stats).

So, what fighting style DO you like for the character concept?

You mentioned some wariness about Tome of Battle. Does that include taking Martial Study/Martial Stance feats? Because they offer some very nice options for PsyWars.

Note that if the spiked chain is what bothers you about the tripping style, you can still do great with a Guisarme and Armor Spikes instead. In fact, I don't think the EWP feat to switch to a Spiked Chain is actually worth it until higher levels, when your Chain can be strongly magical.

Yeah, but you probably won't be getting your 4 Girallon Claws.
Well, there is the Double Chakra feat ... but yeah, now we're just getting into the reasons why Totemists are feat-starved.

Psyren

2012-07-30, 03:44 PM

Thank you danzibr. For the record, my own Warforged Totemist is in a PF game (I'm intentionally using the unmodified 3.5 version to be as straightforward as possible - my group is new to Incarnum - just with the various bonuses to grapple and skills etc. going to CMB and the new skills instead.) But yeah, the extra feats in PF are indeed helping a lot.

Anyhow, I'll stop derailing now :smalltongue:

For the half-giant Psywar, definitely tripping is a great strategy because size is so important. Between your Powerful Build and your Expansion, you'll be able to tip centaurs and yank dragons out of the sky.

Yuric the Bold

2012-07-31, 06:46 AM

So after much deliberation I have decided not to go the route of Imp. Trip/Knockdown combo. I will not be using the spiked chain. I feel the FEAT used to be proficient with SC would be better spent elsewhere. Besides the stacking DEX penalties from Expansion make this less appealing at later levels.

My stats are listed as follows. (18,18,14,14,13,11)
STR 20 DEX 12 CON 15 INT 14 WIS 18 CHA 11

I will be taking the Mantled Warrior ACF instead of the Psychic Soulbound Weapon. It opens more options later in the campaign for my character in terms of more abilities as well as possibly taking more Mantles.

If I was to do the King of Smack build I am sure my DM would not allow it into his campaign. I can't really blame him.

Any ideas for a cool build other than the two cheese builds?

Psyren

2012-07-31, 07:54 AM

Which mantle are you going with?

Keep in mind that to learn additional mantles, you need two feats each: one for the powers in the mantle (Tap Mantle) and one for the granted power of that mantle (Don Mantle.) You must tap a mantle before you can don it.

A common suggestion is to get Natural World since it gets you Metamorphosis earlier (10 instead of 13 via EK), but I suggest you pick it up via Tap Mantle instead, as the granted power of NW is weak. Instead, your first mantle should be something with both useful powers and a useful granted ability, e.g. Deception, Fate, Freedom, Guardian or Time.

Yuric the Bold

2012-07-31, 09:36 AM

Freedom Mantle; seems the most useful at lower levels. Plus the powers it grants access to later on seem very cool.

My big debate is which power to choose first. Being only able to manifest a single power I want something useful. Expansion is only 1 round per level and takes a standard action to use. Not useful at Level 1.

Something with a duration that might last thru a few rnds of combat would be awesome at this point! LOL

Yuric the Bold

2012-07-31, 09:46 AM

Did I mention I am arguing with myself about FEAT selection as well?!
I want keep my FEATs more Psionic in nature to make me more of a powerhouse with abilities later in the campaign.
I was thinking Combat Manifestation and Psychic Weapon; although PsiCrystal Affinity might not be a bad choice for level 1 either instead of PW.

Psyren

2012-07-31, 09:50 AM

My big debate is which power to choose first. Being only able to manifest a single power I want something useful. Expansion is only 1 round per level and takes a standard action to use. Not useful at Level 1.

Something with a duration that might last thru a few rnds of combat would be awesome at this point! LOL

Sure. Here are some good low-level picks:

Bite of the Wolf: You get a second attack that deals all three types of damage, automatically scales with your size and level, and lasts 10 rounds at level 1.

Force Screen: 10 rounds/level of shield AC, which (a) you can use while 2-handing a weapon and (b) apply against incorporeal touch attacks.

Defensive Precognition: If you already have armor and a shield, this will boost your AC and saves even further. 10 rounds/level.

Biofeedback: DR 2/- is a big deal at first-level, and it scales too. This also lasts 10 rounds/level.

Dimension Hop: If you picked Freedom, you're one of the few characters that doesn't need Hidden Talent to get this. You now have a great use for your swift action long before other characters do.

Draz74

2012-07-31, 01:28 PM

What power should you pick at Level 1? VIGOR. It's awesome.

Did I mention I am arguing with myself about FEAT selection as well?!
I want keep my FEATs more Psionic in nature to make me more of a powerhouse with abilities later in the campaign.
I was thinking Combat Manifestation and Psychic Weapon; although PsiCrystal Affinity might not be a bad choice for level 1 either instead of PW.
Combat Manifestation is awful. If you're really worried about your Concentration checks for some reason, you'd be better off with Shape Soulmeld (Vitality Belt) from MoI.

Psionic Weapon is amazing at Level 1. It doesn't scale well, but it's a prerequisite for Deep Impact, which matters a little more at higher levels (especially if you were planning on Power Attacking too). So it's an OK choice.

Psicrystal Affinity is amazing, but mostly because of combos that you won't have at Level 1. (Vigor / Share Pain, Psicrystal Containment, Energy Absorption, Solicit Psicrystal ... some of these are more Psion things than PsyWar things.) At Level 1, the main benefits to a Psicrystal are roleplay/utility purposes (e.g. sending it out as a scout) and the minor bonus it gives you, such as +2 Reflex Saves or something. So it's an OK choice, but not a must-have.

Hidden Talent, if your DM allows it (it's from a sidebar for "high-psionics campaigns," but the forum consensus is that it's actually pretty balanced for normal campaigns) is kind of the ideal Level 1 feat. Giving you an additional Power Known (Mindlink?) is nice, but at this level it will mostly be valuable for the +2 PP. (The Power Known just makes it so that you won't regret the lack of scaling later on.)

Failing that, you could go with Overchannel. It's pretty great, especially when combined (later?) with Talented.

Sure. Here are some good low-level picks:

Bite of the Wolf: You get a second attack that deals all three types of damage, automatically scales with your size and level, and lasts 10 rounds at level 1.

Force Screen: 10 rounds/level of shield AC, which (a) you can use while 2-handing a weapon and (b) apply against incorporeal touch attacks.
Meh, I've never thought that this one was really worth the standard action to manifest it. But I guess it might be at low levels, and at higher levels I guess you could Link it.

Defensive Precognition: If you already have armor and a shield, this will boost your AC and saves even further. 10 rounds/level.
Scales relatively well, too.

Biofeedback: DR 2/- is a big deal at first-level, and it scales too. This also lasts 10 rounds/level.
This one is weak IMO.

Dimension Hop: If you picked Freedom, you're one of the few characters that doesn't need Hidden Talent to get this. You now have a great use for your swift action long before other characters do.

While this would be a great power to have at Level 1, IIRC, the Mantled Warrior ACF doesn't let you select powers from the mantle until Level 2. :smallfrown:

If you decide not to go with Vigor for some reason, you could also look at Grip of Iron. It only lasts a round, yes, but that's not as painful when manifesting it is only an immediate action. One round can be enough to help you escape the grasp of a crocodile or python, which are actually some of the tougher monsters you can face at Level 1.

Psyren

2012-07-31, 01:46 PM

Draz74

2012-07-31, 03:12 PM

Vigor is indeed great, but I think at level 1, Force Screen or Biofeedback will do a better job of protecting you. It definitely scales the best out of all the powers on the list though, so it's still a worthwhile choice.

Force Screen, probably. I guess my aversion to it is just because of the scaling thing. I tend to be a long-term planner. (Of course, that's a moot point if you'll have access to a Psychic Reformation at some point.)

Biofeedback ... not so much. At Level 1, Vigor will protect you more than Biofeedback unless you get hit at least 3 times in a battle. And at Level 1, in my experience, if you get hit three times you'll probably be at negative HP even with DR 2/-. I guess it depends on what kinds of enemies you tend to face (orcs with falchions vs. swarms of rats or cats or kobolds) and your party (is there a Cleric who will put you back in the fight if you get dropped?).

Psyren

2012-07-31, 04:26 PM

Fair enough. I guess the reason I like DR at level 1 is that, without it, you're subject to the "all successful attacks deal a minimum of 1 damage" rule, which allows cats to scratch you to death. But BF scales so poorly. that you'd be obliged to dump it with Reformation anyway, so you're right, it's not worthwhile.

DrDeth

2012-07-31, 10:46 PM

Well my DM grew a set of very timid nutz and said the campaign is going to take place in Greyhawk so no outside source material. I called shenanigans and said the campaign is going to be LAME SAUCE.

More than a little cheesed off. Now I really want to make something to just wreck shop in his campaign.

Okay Playground; kid gloves off.

Let's get silly.

No. Don't. Either man up and play, or tell him you hate the idea and you'll join in next campaign- thanks but no thanks. None of this stuff. Cooperate or don't play.

herrhauptmann

2012-08-01, 01:46 AM

Lets see:
Race=orc with half minotaur (or ogre) template.
You're now a halforc, just not a human/orc hybrid.
3 levels in Half Orc Paragon class (UA) Divided ancestry is the only thing that seems to specify you having a human parent.
3 levels in orc paragon class (if you want)
Warblade levels to satisfaction.
Frenzied Berserker.

Feats:
Extra rage (will also apply to frenzy when you get it)
power attack
cleave
leap attack
improved bullrush
shocktrooper
Dip into BoED for that righteous rage thing so you can end your rages/frenzies when you want. Or, Iron Heart Surge.
And begin building an ubercharger with your 32 strength at ecl3. That's if you want to piss off the DM and piss in his cheerios.

But hey, it's not like intentionally ruining the game isn't going to piss off the other players (your friends?). Especially not with you starting an arms race with the guy, who in the end, will always win. Assuming he doesn't kick you out of the table out of hand.