need help with build psion or wilder.

[morkendi]

Current campain hit 20, so we are thinking about starting new. I got my first taste od psi warrior and liked it, so thinking about another psi class. Campain is evil with no homebrew. Core and pathfinder. I am torn between 2 things. Like the idea of elan psion/beguiler or changeling wilder/rouge.

[Psyren]

What level are you starting at?

I advise against Beguiler as they don't get Mental Pinnacle or Dweomer of Transference, which are prime reasons to be a Cerebremancer. You'll also have a higher opportunity cost as you lose a bunch of skills.

Are you using PF Psionics, or 3.5?

[morkendi]

Mostly 3.5 start at 5th.

[Urpriest]

What do you mean by Core? DMG MM PHB? Or SRD? Because if you're doing the former, you can't use psionics, since all Pathfinder psionics are 3rd party.

Also, are you using 3.5 rules, or PF rules? If we understand why you're using 3.5 Core but PF splats it might help create a build that works better with the situation you find yourself in.

[morkendi]

The dm allows us to build like we want. If it is cheese, he wont allow. He has all the books like complete warrior, exalted deeds, vile deeds, everything. He also has most pathfinder if we can reason it. If it is homebrew, he will not waste his time looking at it. If you try to stretch something, he will ask what book and what page and if you cant tell him, it is out. My psy warrior was 3.5, and most the game is 3.5. He does use stuff like channel energy for clerics, but you have to take the feat.

[Urpriest]

The dm allows us to build like we want. If it is cheese, he wont allow. He has all the books like complete warrior, exalted deeds, vile deeds, everything. He also has most pathfinder if we can reason it. If it is homebrew, he will not waste his time looking at it. If you try to stretch something, he will ask what book and what page and if you cant tell him, it is out. My psy warrior was 3.5, and most the game is 3.5. He does use stuff like channel energy for clerics, but you have to take the feat.

If your DM is allowing essentially all books, then why did you mention a restriction to Core in the OP? I feel like there's something I'm missing here.

[morkendi]

I thought core was published under wizards of the coast, excuse me. I played 2nd edition untill this year when the dm got a ton of 3 and 3.5 stuff on ebay. Still a little new to it as my mind still runs in second edition.

[Rejakor]

Psion/metaminds are cool, at 10th level metamind you never run out of PP ever again.

Erudites are fun, especially the kind that learn arcane spells as psionic powers.

Psion (Kineticists) are fun largely thanks to Control Object applying even to an armoured mecha suit

Psion (Shapers) are fun largely because there is a prestige class in hyperconsciousness (3rd party, dreamscarred press) that lets you take your Astral Constructs and wear them as armoured mecha suits

[Urpriest]

I thought core was published under wizards of the coast, excuse me. I played 2nd edition untill this year when the dm got a ton of 3 and 3.5 stuff on ebay. Still a little new to it as my mind still runs in second edition.

Ah ok. Usually on this forum Core means only the PHB, or things like that. If you want to say just wizards of the coast content, just saying no homebrew will usually be enough.

[Rubik]

I love shaper/constructors (www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040625b). Favorite class combo ever. Especially gestalted with factotum 18/swordsage 2. You'd be amazed at what you can do with clever and creative use of Astral Construct and the various other shaper powers. You could use almost nothing but metacreativity and have answers to nearly any problem in the game that isn't social-related. And for that shapers get Bluff as a class skill.

Just make sure to grab the Linked Power feat from CPsi. Perfect for a shaper, as it grants you (essentially) Quicken Power, so long as you don't mind the second power showing up next round.

Oh, and they're great for endurance. A 1 pp Psionic Minor Creation lasts ML-hours, so you can just hit enemies with dose after dose of Con-damage and only spend 1 pp.

[morkendi]

Playing around on paper, and i might go a different rout. I got race as changeling. Str 10, dex 16, con10, int 12, wis 16, and cha 12. Three lvls rouge and 2 lvls psi war. Feats are able learner, craven, weapon finess, discover psi power compression. My 2 powers are prevenom weapon and camelion. 60 skill points to spend at only 1 per skill rank from able learner. My hide is at 13 before i even add skill points. Between compression and changeling, i can look like any huminiod medium or smaller. Chose scimitar for weapon for 1d6 plus crit range 18-20 x2. Prevenom for con damage as well no save. I can see this going towards assassin. Looking fun maybe? Might build to 20 to see potential.

[Psyren]

Psion/metaminds are cool, at 10th level metamind you never run out of PP ever again.

Erudites are fun, especially the kind that learn arcane spells as psionic powers.

Psion (Kineticists) are fun largely thanks to Control Object applying even to an armoured mecha suit

Psion (Shapers) are fun largely because there is a prestige class in hyperconsciousness (3rd party, dreamscarred press) that lets you take your Astral Constructs and wear them as armoured mecha suits

This thread is confusing. Do you mean Pathfinder or 3.5 with these recommendations? Because in 3.5, the Metamind is terrible - it actually ends up with far less PP than just staying straight Psion, which is a total failure on WotC's part as the fluff was the opposite.

Font of Power is a cool ability but not worth it without significant cheese (to lengthen its duration.)

[morkendi]

No homebrew, can be 3.5 or pathfinder, but i am really thinking about the build i just posted. My dm and the other 2 players are ex army rangers. A good amout of the game turns out to be tactics and such. This will be my first evil character as well.

[Rubik]

No homebrew, can be 3.5 or pathfinder, but i am really thinking about the build i just posted. My dm and the other 2 players are ex army rangers. A good amout of the game turns out to be tactics and such. This will be my first evil character as well.I pulled the aforementioned shaper/constructor in a game, and the tactical benefits were amazing. Time Hop and Wall of Ectoplasm were good enough by themselves, but Astral Construct allows you what amounts to disposable movable walls that can grapple, trip, swim, fly, and 90% of whatever else you need. Just make sure you find ways to manifest the power quickly (such as Linked Power + Hammer, or the chronocharm of the uncaring archmage).

Seriously, for a psionic character this is THE best tactical combo for you, far as I'm concerned. Just do your best to think outside the box and you can go far.