Underpowered/Overpowered? [Spell]

[Phosphate]

So...what's the best way to avoid scry&fry? Or make a throne room, or a treasure room ACTUALLY SAFE? Without demiplane shenanigans, of course. Well, I attempted with this:

Dead Zone

Universal
Level: Clr 9, Sor/Wiz 9
Components: V, S, M, XP
Casting Time: 1 hour
Range: Medium
Area: 50 ft emanation that cannot contain you. Can be cast with a smaller radius, but cannot be shaped (it's always spherical...or dome-like)
Duration: until caster's death
Saving Throw: Will negates/Will partial (see text)
Spell Resistance: No

You create a zone that is perfectly mundane, the spark of any sort of supernatural dying out on approach. After this spell is successfully cast, you must make a Will save against a DC of 30. If you fail, you permanently lose a 9th level slot.

This spell always uses a 9th level spell slot, can only be cast once per day, can only be prepared once per day, and metamagic cannot be applied to it.

All magical objects that are not artifacts have their magical abilities suppressed as if in an AMF while inside the dead zone. Furthermore, they need to make a Will save once per hour, and should they fail once, they lose all their enhancement permanently (but remain masterwork). Artifacts remaining in the zone are also suppressed, but never lose their magical properties permanently.

The zone has all the functions an AMF or an APF has, and some bonus ones. Firstly, Disjunction can never dispel a Dead Zone, since it is technically not a magical effect, but the lack of magic. Secondly, supernatural/spell-like/spells/feats applied to spells that make such effects functional within an AMF/APF don't function in a Dead Zone.

Creatures powered by supernatural forces, like constructs and undead (but not elementals), even if the undead are corporeal, cannot enter the dead zone, and if they move through an edge, find themselves teleported at the diametrically opposite end (this is an Ex effect, so spells like Dimensional Anchor do not prohibit it). Incorporeal creatures, creatures on the ethereal plane, and Blinking creatures not only get teleported just as constructs/undead, but also cannot see anything within the Dead Zone - it appears as an opaque black sphere to them.

The content of the sphere is completely invisible to scrying of any kind - the scrier only sees an empty sphere of thin air. Also, the thoughts of those inside cannot be read.

Also, nothing can teleport in and out of the Dead Zone.

Material Component: A spellbook containing at least 1 spell of every level (from 0 to 9). The caster of Dead Zone must also be able to cast all of those spells.
XP Cost: 2000 XP, or 10000 if it is not the first casting of the spell.

[D@rK-SePHiRoTH-]

perhaps Wish should be allowed to try to end this effect?

[Network]

I'm not sure about magic items losing their magical properties permanently and constructs moving from one side to another.

Why not just make it a straight, instantaneous dead magic zone? You could remove magical components in that case.

Alternatively, you could consider the creation of a dead zone as an use for Miracle or Wish, because both spells can already undo a normal dead zone.

[Phosphate]

perhaps Wish should be allowed to try to end this effect?

I'm not sure. As far as I know Wish cannot end Anti-Magic Field, so...

[Temotei]

You should probably make the spellbook a focus instead of a material component. Material components are destroyed. :smallfrown:

[Phosphate]

You should probably make the spellbook a focus instead of a material component. Material components are destroyed. :smallfrown:

I am perfectly aware.

[AeonsShadow]

How about suppressing the magic of any magical items that enter the zone? The longer they are in the zone, then the longer it will take an magical item that is taken out of the area of effect to have a chance to make a save for reactivation.


Like say a flaming burst sword was put into the zone for 5 rounds. Then it would be anywhere between 5 rounds and a day before the item could make a save to reactivate.

Also, the longer they are in the Zone, then the higher the save is, but as time goes by, the save slowly goes lower and lower.

[toapat]

Paladins with Fix the Weave can slowly chip their way through this bubble.

[Wyntonian]

I think corporeal undead and constructs should go inert upon entering the field rather than being teleported, as the magic that animates them is suppressed. So a zombie steps in, gets severed from its "power source" and collapses. A golem charges into one, the elemental powering it is released or suppressed and it goes limp.

That's a little better than random teleportation, I think.

[Temotei]

I am perfectly aware.

Well, that...sucks. Okay, then.

[Logic]

Well, that...sucks. Okay, then.

It doesn't have to be the main spellbook. If I recall correctly, a blank spellbook is worth 50gp. Adding 10 spells to your backup spellbook isn't that big of a deal.

[toapat]

It doesn't have to be the main spellbook. If I recall correctly, a blank spellbook is worth 50gp. Adding 10 spells to your backup spellbook isn't that big of a deal.

It is when you have to spend 100gp*Lvl^2 or whatever the cost of magical ink is, a spellbook scribed with 10 spells is alot of cash, even for a T1 class, and then you permanantly sacrifice Wish 1/Day?

[Logic]

It is when you have to spend 100gp*Lvl^2 or whatever the cost of magical ink is, a spellbook scribed with 10 spells is alot of cash, even for a T1 class, and then you permanantly sacrifice Wish 1/Day?Using your method, the price is 28,600 GP. No paltry sum, however, we are lucky the cost of ink is not the square of the spell level.
As for sacrificing Wish, I don't see that up there. Potentially losing a 9th level spell slot, I see. Why does it have to be Wish?


Space in the Spellbook

A spell takes up one page of the spellbook per spell level. Even a 0-level spell (cantrip) takes one page. A spellbook has one hundred pages.

Materials and Costs

Materials for writing the spell cost 100 gp per page.
At the method listed in the SRD, the total is 460 4600 GP. Consider for a moment that any caster of this spell would be a minimum of 17th level (WBL for 17th level characters is 340,000, unless I found an incorrect source.) Add the cost of a blank spellbook and the price of the material component for this spell is 510 4650 GP. This is about one twentieth half the cost of Resurrection. Not that bad.

[toapat]

Using your method, the price is 28,600 GP. No paltry sum, however, we are lucky the cost of ink is not the square of the spell level.

At the method listed in the SRD, the total is 460 GP. Considering any caster of this spell would be a minimum of 17th level (WBL for 17th level characters is 340,000, unless I found an incorrect source.) Add the cost of a blank spellbook and the price of the material component for this spell is 510 GP. This is about one twentieth the cost of Resurrection. Not that bad.

I said OR WHATEVER the cost of it is.

the Method in the SRD means the cost of the spellbook material component costs 4650gp, not 460

[Logic]

I said OR WHATEVER the cost of it is.

the Method in the SRD means the cost of the spellbook material component costs 4650gp, not 460

My mistake. Math is supposed to be one of my strong areas. :smalltongue:

[Phosphate]

I think corporeal undead and constructs should go inert upon entering the field rather than being teleported, as the magic that animates them is suppressed. So a zombie steps in, gets severed from its "power source" and collapses. A golem charges into one, the elemental powering it is released or suppressed and it goes limp.

That's a little better than random teleportation, I think.

Nope, it's plain overpowered.

[Noctis Vigil]

For what it's worth, I houserule that cantrips can be prepared and cast without a spellbook. It's never broken a game yet.


Nope, it's plain overpowered.

Sorry, gotta disagree here. This is a 9th level spell that costs almost 5k gold (or almost 1k if you're a Geometer), 2k EXP (or 10k if you're dumb enough to cast it twice) and has a fair chance of permanently losing you a 9th level slot every time you cast it. This is a painful amount of penalty, even on a 9th level spell. Not even Wish or Miracle have costs that great, and those spells actually state that you can force an army to win a battle with one casting of them in their descriptions. Making any undead or construct who enters the pathetically small area of this spell go inert until removed and make saves like a magical item is totally reasonable, and in fact makes more sense.

One question about the spell: how does it interact with things like detect evil and detect magic? Especially detect magic. And can a spellcaster still prepare spells for the day inside this circle?

[Phosphate]

For what it's worth, I houserule that cantrips can be prepared and cast without a spellbook. It's never broken a game yet.

That's the way I play too. But when I post homebrew I base it on RAW.



One question about the spell: how does it interact with things like detect evil and detect magic? Especially detect magic. And can a spellcaster still prepare spells for the day inside this circle?

As it says in the description, the content is invisible to scrying. So any kind of detection returns no result. As for preparation... if a wizard can prepare spells inside a permanencied AMF, he can in a Dead Zone. If not...no. I'm not sure either way.

But my understanding is that "preparing" means chanting from your spellbook. You literally read the 4 pages of a level 4 spell, and leave the ending out. And arcane energy is discharged only at spell completion, so...I believe you should. Unless you can't in an AMF, I repeat.


And we'll have to agree to disagree on the undead/construct thing. I still think a level 17 wizard shouldn't be able to neutralize a demilich by doing what amounts to...casting a spell.

[Network]

Can you explain why a golem pass trough while an intelligent item will slowly be destructed?

I suggest to inflict damage upon faeries and unliving beings. Such as 1d6 per hour, no save, no DR (or a save-or-die, if you want to go further).

[Noctis Vigil]

Another question: how does this affect epic magic?

[Icedaemon]

And we'll have to agree to disagree on the undead/construct thing. I still think a level 17 wizard shouldn't be able to neutralize a demilich by doing what amounts to...casting a spell.

An intelligent undead, especially a Lich, can use the hour-long casting time however it chooses. This is not an instantly-cast thing. A lich might even discern what spell the wizard is casting and either make killing the caster main priority, an ample time frame there, or just get out of the area of effect.

Alternatively, letting intelligent undead make difficult will saves, with the DC ramping up by a further 4 or so every turn, to avoid losing the negative energy could be fair.

[TuggyNE]

This spell has some irregularities that I think you might want to improve.


Universal

Why not Abjuration, as AMF is?


Area: 50 ft emanation that cannot contain you. Can be cast with a smaller radius, but cannot be shaped (it's always spherical...or dome-like)

Spell areas can't be shaped by default anyway. Are you saying that e.g. Sculpt Spell, Mastery of Shaping don't function? If so, why not? Finally, I suggest putting the restriction on position vs. area in the main text, not the summary lines.


After this spell is successfully cast, you must make a Will save against a DC of 30. If you fail, you permanently lose a 9th level slot.

It might just be me, but I prefer to have the math for save DCs spelled out, rather than derived from apparent thin air.


This spell always uses a 9th level spell slot, can only be cast once per day, can only be prepared once per day, and metamagic cannot be applied to it.

I don't understand why all these elaborate provisions are necessary. Who would want to cast it more than once a day anyway? And what metamagic are you worried about?


Firstly, Disjunction can never dispel a Dead Zone, since it is technically not a magical effect, but the lack of magic.

If you say so, but the continuing Will saves, and other effects like magical teleportation, suggest otherwise.


Creatures powered by supernatural forces, like constructs and undead (but not elementals), even if the undead are corporeal, cannot enter the dead zone, and if they move through an edge, find themselves teleported at the diametrically opposite end (this is an Ex effect, so spells like Dimensional Anchor do not prohibit it). Incorporeal creatures, creatures on the ethereal plane, and Blinking creatures not only get teleported just as constructs/undead, but also cannot see anything within the Dead Zone - it appears as an opaque black sphere to them.

This I like, at least the inability to enter the dead zone. Although I would second the earlier suggestions to make them go inert (possibly on a failed save; a successful save would allow them to remain outside, but in no case would an undead or construct be permitted to function inside).

Note, also, that dimensional anchor/lock don't care about Ex/Su/Sp/Ps/whatever: the important point is that teleportation always involves traveling through the astral plane, and those spells block all planar travel. So as written this doesn't make sense.


The content of the sphere is completely invisible to scrying of any kind - the scrier only sees an empty sphere of thin air. Also, the thoughts of those inside cannot be read.

This should be expanded to include all divination effects that target creatures within the dead zone.


XP Cost: 2000 XP, or 10000 if it is not the first casting of the spell.

Why does the XP cost escalate? How does the XP cost escalate? (I.e., just what caster thought it would be sensible for his newly researched spell to check for copies of itself?)