League of Legends XXXVI: Thread Now Invisible When You're Not Looking

[Godskook]

League of Legends XXXVI:
Thread Now Invisible When You're Not Looking



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NA Server
{table=head]Forum Name|Game Name
0tt3r | 0tt3r
9mm | cwcriner
Adumbration | Benefice
aethernox | aethernox
Alemil | Alemil
Alter | AlterForm
Anonomuss | OpticalSage
ArcanistSupreme | Arcanist Supreme
Arbitrarity | Arbitrarity
Archangel Yuki | Yocham
assassin89 | nineballcirno
Astrella | Sirroelivan
AtwasAwamps | AtwasAwamps
Aurenthal | Estor
Baron Corm | Baron Corm
Baxter | Thefettered
BinaryMage | BinaryMage
Blueiji | Blueiji
BobVosh | BobVosh -or- VoshBob
Bookboy | Keledrath
Brother Oni | MarineHK4861
Bliss Authority | Companion N00b
Caradryan | Ying Quliang
Castleraven | Castleraven
cdstephens | cdstephens
Chess435 | Chess435
Copacetic | Azbu
Creed | Moarzed
CrnvorousMeece | CarnivorousMeece
Croverus | Croverus
Cute_Riolu | Cute Riolu
Dallas-Dakota | MustacheMan
Dante & Vergil | Raphiezar
Darth Mario | Darth Mario
Daverin | Daverin
Dentrag2 | Callinectes
dgnslyr | GANKERLagann
Dichotomy | Kaellin
Djinn in Tonic | The Djinn
Dogmantra | Dogmantra
douglas | DouglasM
Dragonus45 | Dragonus45
Drager0 | Drager0
Dragor | Supernaturalist
Draken | Draken Frosthand
DrakeRaids | DrakeRaids057
Dralnu | TomerIsHot
dukexx | JacksonHicks
Duos | DapperGuy
efdf | efdf
EifieFlare | EifieFlare
Elagune | Chopstyx
Eldariel | Elealar
EndlessWrath | Andurin
Errandir | Ramses III
EternalMelon | EternalMelon
faith | Ferrovax101
FantomFang | FantomFang
Faulty | FaultyClockwork
Fawkes | Count Fawkes
FeverFox | Alcopop
Flarowon | Kruin Avabruc
kFlechair | Master Zealot
Folytopo | Folytopo
Frankelshtein | McFinkelstein
Fredaintdead | Fredthefighter
Gallus | Anechois
Geigan | Geigan
glemis | glemis
Giant Panda | Le Shirrif
Godskook | Bethor Kookalian
Gourtox | Gourtox
Gruffard | Gruffard
Hanuman | HanumanXoO
Hatevah | Hatevah
Incomp | Incomp
InyutheBeatIs | Believe Inyu
Istari | IstariK
Ivellius | Ivellius
Jamin | CapZich
JKTrickster | ZenTrickster
Joran | Jorana
KaizoMK | KaizoMK
Kara Kuro | RaptorKitty
Kciemir | Ghostface Ki11ah
Kettle | Kettle747
king.com | kingcom
Kinslayer | HaunterReqiuem
kmchii | kmchii
knightMARE|Sir Wiffleston
Kopaka | CelesHurricane
Kwazey | Kwazey
LegoShrimp | LegoShrimp
Lil Shiro | Mizz Mitchell
litewarior | litewarior
Lix Lorn | ElixiaLorn
Lord Generic | Lord Generic
LordShotGun | LordShotGun
LostEnder | LostEnder
Low-Key | TheFuzziestBear
lvl 1 sharnian | StarryEagle
Lyxie | Lyxie
Maeglin_Dubh | Tycho Velius
Makensha | Jarbis
MammonAzrael | MammonAzrael
Manticoran | Manticoran
MasatoHyuga | MasatoHyuga
Master_Rahl22 | Goltoth
master256 | QWERTYSTOP
Math_Mage | Mathmage
Mattarias, King. | Mattarias
Malmagor Andrigal | Madmal
Maxios | Maxios20
McCerberus | MCerberus
Meatshield#236 | Meatshield236
Merellis | Merellis
Mike_the_Mystic | Kraemer
Milskidasith | Milskidasith
Mindfreak586 | Mindfreak586
Mirrinus | Parallaxal
Miscast_Mage | MiscastMage
Moklok | KokoBWare
mrzomby | mrzomby
Mtg_player_zach | MtgPlayerZach
Mushroom Ninja | Mushroom Ninja
Mutant Bunny | WhollySpart
Nadevoc | Xenik
Nanoblack | IwearSILLYhats
Nargan | Naryuk
Necroticplague | Yamidamian
Neoseanster | Neoseanster
NeoVid | NeoVid
neXianXavia | neXianXavia
NotAEvilToaster | NeonPie
oblivion6 | warcrown10
Octopus Jack | Thalric
PersonMan | Nsev
Pie Guy | Qwazes
pilvento | Kandrass
PhoeKun | PhoeKun
Poison Fish | Baron Von Flib
Protecar | Godreig
Protecar | Atk
Psychotic | SquirrelFish
Qaera | Qaera
ragingrage | ragingrage
Raistlin1040 | Sanevale
Rama | Nargus
Raroy | setokaibasmt
RationalGoblin | AtillathePun
Raveypoos | Rhaviewoos
recklessabaddon | recklessabaddon
revolver kobold | A Magic Kobold
Reynard | Duke Reynington
Serpentine | Lady Serpentine
Shades of Gray | PierreAbelard
shadowwalker64 | shadowwalker65
Shadowleaf | Shadowdancing
Shadow Lord | ShadowLordgiantitp
Shadowy | DJPON3Vinyl
ShortOne | LittlePoppy
SidCoolios | Irazel
Silverraptor | Silverraptor
Sircarp | Sircarp
SirSigfried | LibertarianSDR
Slash_712 | Catfud
sofawall | sofawall
St. Viers | St.Viers
Starfols | Starfols
SuperPanda | Lokilar
SweetRein | Riot Reinboom
TalonDemonKing | TalonDemonKing
TechnOkami | Techn0kami
Temotei | Temotei221
Terazul | Allegretto
term1nally s1ck | silverdevilboy
tesla_pasta | generictownsman
Thanatos 51-50 | Thanatos Erebus
The_Fiery_Tower | TheFieryTower
TheGlowingRogue | I Glow In Dark
Themage | SirPelletheGreat
Thethan | Thethan
The Rabbler | Paco H Jones
The Shadowmind | The Shadowmind
The Valiant Turtle | Valiant Turtle
Thrantar | Thrantar
Thrawn183 | Thrawnyboy
throtecutter | throtecutter
toasty | toastymow
Tono | Tono Chou
Treayn | Treayn
tribble | Smallbluedot
Tychris1 | Tychris1
userpay | userpay
Vauron | Vauron
Volatar | The Volatar
wandiya | wandiya
Winterwind | DreamingHeart
Winthur | Seyruun
woodzyowl | Woodzyowl
Zabel_Zarock | Jon Talbain
Zeful | Zeful
ZeltArruin | ZeltArruin
Zemro | Shivic
ZeroNumerous | ZeroNumerous
Zeteni | Zeteni
zolga | TheZolga[/table]

EU Server--West
{table=head]Forum Name|Game Name
Acromos | Crannoch
Adumbration | Adumbration
Anonomuss | Anonomuss
Brother Oni | MarineHK4861
Cheers | Sam vds
Cyborg Mage | Cyborg Mage98
Eldariel | Elealar
Even Human | SlyGuyMcFly
Gauntlet | Isva
HalfDragonCube | giantmudkip
Krazzman | Viskerin
Maxymiuk | Maxymiuk
Mc. Lovin | B1GB1RDB4G3L
Miscast_Mage | MiscastMage
Morph Bark | Morpheus Bob
Nargan | Naryuk
PersonMan | Scarge
Reb46 | Reb46
Reynard | Duke Reyn
Runhidesurvive | Jmack10
Saph | StarSaph
Talesin | Fridgecake
term1nally s1ck | Silverdevilboy
That'd_be_me | AntiLocke
TheGeckoKing | Alpharis Omega
Winterwind | DreamingHeart
Ziren | Zirenoid
zolga | MasterZolga[/table]

EU Server--Nordic & East
{table=head]Forum Name|Game Name
Dada | Scrattlebeard
Posca | LDRC
Rockbird | Rockbird[/table]

EU Server--Unspecified
{table=head]Forum Name|Game Name
Abakus | Terpfen
Alemil | Alemil
Ayra | Ayramatao
Darwin | DarwinBeGood
Endoperez | Endoperez
Heliomance | Sidhe de Grian
Kurrel | GrinningOni
littlebottom | Littlebottom
lord_khaine | Lord_khaine
Narazil | Narazil
Narkis | Narkis
Penthar | Malderon
Raviepoos | Skittles Unicorn
Shadowleaf | AncientPharma
shadowwalker64 | shadowwalker64
Socratov | Mbutu
Voidhawk | Sidhe ne Awk
Volatar | VolatarUK
Zefir | Einerwie
Zombywoof | Zombywoof[/table]

SEA Server
{table=head]Forum Name|Game Name
abadguy | Smite Thy Enemy[/table]

MUMBLE
Download here! (http://mumble.sourceforge.net/)
Our main means of communication is a mumble server, playing host to a variety of games, including LoL. We're quite a tight knit community, get to know us! Hanging about is a good way to find a game, and if you don't fancy playing something there's always a good chance of a friendly chat. Contact Djinn_in_Tonic via PM if you have a question or want to donate money to keep the server running.
Address: fish.mumbleboxes.com
Port: 36003

Admins: Djinn_in_Tonic (Djinn); Darth Mario; ShortOne (LittlePoppy, Raven); Dogmantra; Nano (Nanoceraptor).

STREAMS
Some of us run streams. You can watch them here.
Silverraptor (http://www.livestream.com/silverrapter?t=527242)
Lyxie (http://www.own3d.tv/lyxie)

GUIDES
Sometimes people write guides and post them in this thread. Other times pro players write guides that people then post in this thread. They often end up here.
General
A General Guide to Support (http://tpesports.net/index.php?site=articles&action=show&articlesID=32), by Math Mage
Guide to General Common Jungler Set-Ups (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12409551&postcount=575), by Mtg_player_zach
Small Guide to Jungle Counterpicking (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12379254&postcount=98), by Winthur
General Guide to AD Carries (http://www.solomid.net/guides.php?g=9234)
Seizing the fourth digit: Playing your way out of Elo Hell. (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=341821) by Math_Mage
Faulty and Raistlin's Quick Build Database: Notes and Stuff (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10942497&postcount=1004) by Faulty and Raistlin
Turning Skill Into Elo: Solo Queue Mindset And Methodology (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1220673) by MathMage
How to be a Good Team Leader (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1374492) by Darth Mario

Specific Champions
Riven 101 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12579737&postcount=204), by Arbitrarity
Highly Artistic Blitzcrank guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12380155&postcount=115), by Dogmantra
Laser Bear Udyr (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9657101&postcount=39), by Djinn_In_Tonic
Rammus: Can't touch this (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=258919), by Math_Mage
Twitch (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board
[URL="http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10267058&postcount=1448), by Djinn_In_Tonic
Jungle Akali (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10498621&postcount=1358) by Djinn
How to play everyone's favourite Lightning Squirrel (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10518034&postcount=154) by Dogmantra
Lee Sin (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=636475) by Dralnu
Super Serious Rumble Guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11052926&postcount=904) by Dogmantra
OH SNAP Morgana Can Jungle (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11295698&postcount=1238) by Dogmantra
Anivia Guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11514141&postcount=845) by Eldariel
Tristana (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11938481&postcount=1029) by MathMage

CLASSY VIDEOS FOR CLASSY PEOPLE*
Watching these videos makes you a classier person. Fact.
Jungle Janna! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fC6wm9iaNmM)
How to Win Every Game in League of Legends (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrsTE1vpoXM)
Panic at the Nexus (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7WlCbaLI3I)
Sunfire Cape Sunday (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgjfX6crjrg)
Season One Trailer with Commentary (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/news/season-one-trailer-commentary)
D-Town (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wHp4VJ47v0)
Insanity Mix (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGKN1Adzckk&feature=related)
(Truly, Truly) Outrageous (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fC7S05vI-BU&feature=related)
I'm just a noob (Ryze Ryze Ryze again) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wpr1T-pgaZY&feature=related)
e.o.n Shen (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHs_cGUPQ3M&feature=related)
Vendrim-Ionia (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ry3E2UQMe3k&hd=1)
Pwn ur FACE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zf9VSDt0EN4)
Your -Epic- Dreamhack comes true! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKCs1CyBFLg)
Ezreal Custom Skin Spotlight (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zn-HoAPlg-c)
I Just Got Ganked (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpNVN33fj4Y&feature=channel_video_title)
Keep Feeding (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaR0frKc4a0)
Champion Rap Battles -- Brolaf vs. Gentleman Cho'Gath (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZ-r300BVFI)
Combinasion BOOM! League of Legends (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwzsXR4sM_Y)
All in the Cards (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9d3342IXSs)
No One Ganks Like Garen (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bD4uiTQsRJg)
Rammus Taunts Everyone (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-8Q4PM4PXM)

COMICS AND PICS
It's like your eyes are getting a massage.
LoL Comic (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=48169) by Elagune
Learn Your Alphabet (http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/6264/g28376.png) by Dogmantra and Pierreabelard (with a mention in Summoner Showcase #36 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cy7JWV-HA28&feature=feedu)!)
Chibi Champions (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=763895) by pika7
Gender Swaps (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=606416) by ShowMeYourMoves
Champion Flowchart Guides (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=608154) by Renekton Bot
Patch Day Comic (http://i.imgur.com/kHtwk.jpg) by DaemianFF

TRAVEL BACK IN TIME: PREVIOUS THREADS
Proof we're not all experiencing collective haullucinations.

League of Legends XXXV: Jayce, the Defender of Soon™ (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=248760)
League of Legends XXXIV: No Exceptions (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=246004)
League of Legends XXXIII: Game of Mundo (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13142848#post13142848)
League of Legends XXXII: Cupcakes and Kittens and Squirrels. Oh my! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=237600)
League of Legends XXXI: I'll Start My Own Team! With TF And Janna! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=234631)
League of Legends XXX: Must be Summoner Level 18 to View (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=231927)
League of Legends XXIX: Are Nerfs Vayne In This Grave Situation? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=229460)
League of Legends XXVIII: Ahri-Vederci, Dodge. Hello, Viktory. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12466887)
League of Legends XXVII: Your Sister's Hotter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=225730)
League of Legends XXVI: We've officially jumped the shark (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=223894)
League of Legends XXV: Who is your Summoner, and what does he do? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=221849)
League of Legends XXIV: Today's Noob Strat, Tomorrow's New Meta (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219436)
League of Legends XXIII: gunbladeface.jpg (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=217744)
League of Legends XXII: Teamwork OP, Nerf Nao (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=215725)
League of Legends XXI: For The Love Of God Amumu, Stop Crying! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213794)
League of Legends XX: Riot's in the Playground (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=211977)
League of Legends XIX: 15 million players, and nary a Morgana (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210332)
League of Legends: XVIII: ┻━┻ ︵ （╯°□°）╯ (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207908)
League of Legends XVII: Gondor Has No Tank, Gondor Needs No Tank (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205488)
League of Legends XVI: Alas, Poor Game Balance, I Knew Him, Morello (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=203298)
League of Legends XV: Robots Are Better Than Trees (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=201024)
League of Legends XIV: We're So Broken That We're OP! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=198948)
League of Legends XIII: Our Skill is Hard to Deny (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=196765)
League of Legends XII: It's Worth It Because I Said So In The Thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=194886)
League of Legends XI: It's Hard to Post Like This in Heels (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192695)
League of Legends X: Armored Armadillo Delivers Ambiguous Affirmative (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10646164#post10646164)
League of Legends IX: New Thread Available! Only 6300 IP! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=188076)
League of Legends VIII: Gali-Os: They're idolicious! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=185516)
League of Legends 7: Truly, Truly Outrageous! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=182486)
League of Legends 6: Jannaaaaaaaaaa! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178334)
League of Legends 5: Tall Grass Used Garen! DEMACIAAA! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=173805)
League of Legends 4:CAWCAWCAWCAWCAWCAW (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169616)
League of Legends 3: You only need to click once (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=164008s)
League of Legends Goes Where It Pleases 2 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=158135)
League Of Legends: We post where we please. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139094)

[MCerberus]

I guess I should

Server: NA
Summoner Name: MCerberus
Forum Name: MCerberus

Cho's getting some love. He's awesome so yah. Although I'd like to see some of the characters I play gets some buffs. Maybe add a mini-Ryali's to Chosen of the Storm to help with Voli's famous lack of stickiness.

Or maybe something about how Sivir's mana pool completely relies on your opponent being stupid.

[Math_Mage]

Oh, random thought: can this guide (http://tpesports.net/index.php?site=articles&action=show&articlesID=32) go in the OP? Thanks much.

[Tychris1]

Good read math, hopefully that'll apply to support Darius.

[ex cathedra]

Oh, random thought: can this guide (http://tpesports.net/index.php?site=articles&action=show&articlesID=32) go in the OP? Thanks much.
On this note, can you remove all of the champion-specific guides and merge Dogmanta's Kennen/Rumble/Blitzcrank (didn't she make one of those for Viktor? w/e) picture guides into the "Comics and Pics" section?

Also, more than half of the generic guides are woefully out of date, as well. I mentioned that this stuff needed to be purged.

Good read math, hopefully that'll apply to support Darius.

hopefully that'll apply to support Darius.

support Darius.
wat.

[Mutant Bunny]

wat.

Think of him was Blitzcrank with more damage and a slow instead of a knock-up. Pair him with Twitch, both of you take ignite, and the other guys die from too much damage over time.

He'd definitely be a kill lane support, but I can see it working.

[MCerberus]

Supportibear is vastly superior to support Darius.

[NineThePuma]

Where are you guys getting Cho details? =<

/me is in love with Cho/

EDIT: nevermind.

[Ivellius]

Good read math, hopefully that'll apply to support Darius.

Support is really just a state of mind. It's basically saying you're not going to take creeps and are going to back up your carry in bot lane. The traditional supports do have good kits for it (generally a combination of harass, defense, and crowd-control--sometimes all three), but almost any champion can do it.

I mean, I've seen support Mundo a couple of times over the past week-ish. If that's not unusual, I don't know what to say. Did someone play it at a tournament?

[Tesla_pasta]

I think the absolute biggest problem with support Darius is that his kit rewards Kill stealing. Now I don't really think that "KSing" is really like a bad thing as long as you aren't being a troll (I never complain about someone else getting the last hit on a champ I did most of the damage on), but it kinda seems that support would be the one role where you want to intentionally let someone else ( The carry) get as many champ kills as possible and be happy with a billion assists. Darius ult and the fact that he does DOT though...

[Nadevoc]

Also there's the fact that to maximize his damage/harass, he'd need to be using his Q... which would then be picking up minions and pushing the lane.

That said, I did end up as support Darius once (I forget why, but we ended up with two top laners and I agreed to switch to support), and it worked out alright. Had to be pretty careful about when I could use my Q, but managed a few early kills through the huge damage of me and the ADC, and then managed to basically be a scary bully man keeping them from the creeps and letting my carry free farm

[Mtg_player_zach]

Godsook Delete my Into the Wild guide and my Jax Guide, Both are outdated.

[Godskook]

Oh, random thought: can this guide (http://tpesports.net/index.php?site=articles&action=show&articlesID=32) go in the OP? Thanks much.

K, added.


Godsook Delete my Into the Wild guide and my Jax Guide, Both are outdated.

:smallannoyed:

I'll do it, but who's Godsook?

[Mtg_player_zach]

K, added.



:smallannoyed:

I'll do it, but who's Godsook?

Typo, my bad.

[Gauntlet]

Support Guide

I like it- although I don't feel HoG is really core on supports considering the nerf it just took. I am finding Philo + Runes/Masteries to be enough to get as far as teamfights on, and an early Kindlegem gives you some good versatility. With Heart of Gold you're spending a lot more for the gp5 than other items, since you only gain 20 HP from the upgrade over a Ruby Crystal. Even if I'm planning on picking up an early Locket, an Emblem of Valor does a lot to help out on the supports that like Locket (ie. those with no sustain and a tendency to take damage, like Leona).
The other advantage of Emblem on supports (especially those that aren't very mana hungry / need defenses) is that it gives you a few more options for starting items. Cloth Armor + 2 Wards + Pot is strong if you expect to be a meatshield for your carry (Nunu/Kog is a classic example), and Rejuvenation Bead + 3 Wards gives you both much-needed lane sustain and a reasonable amount of bush control- Blitzcrank really likes having some early defense, but often has to trade off ward coverage for it. Emblem gives you the best of both worlds which comes in very handy.

[ex cathedra]

Godsook Delete my Into the Wild guide and my Jax Guide, Both are outdated.

To be fair, all of the champion-specific guides aside from (potentially) Arb's Riven and Eld's Anivia are outdated to the point of uselessness (they also remind me of how much I miss Dodge yellows and Nimbleness ;_; ), and even if they weren't we've never really had champ-specific guides that provide as much detail as you'd find in a relatively well-written solomid.net guide. Even Arb's is more than six months old, and it is by far the most recent.

Giving people brief overviews of champions as those questions come up in the thread is fine, but, simply put, no one here is willing to put in the data or maintenance required to keep a useful list of champion-specific guides relevant and up-to-date. As such, I think that part of the guides section is inherently flawed. There's no reason to leave it there. Moving the art guides to the art section and replacing the champion guides with links to solomid.net and lolpro.com is probably the best option for everyone involved. It won't require upkeep and people new to the thread won't be directed to entirely outdated information.

[Math_Mage]

I like it- although I don't feel HoG is really core on supports considering the nerf it just took. I am finding Philo + Runes/Masteries to be enough to get as far as teamfights on, and an early Kindlegem gives you some good versatility. With Heart of Gold you're spending a lot more for the gp5 than other items, since you only gain 20 HP from the upgrade over a Ruby Crystal. Even if I'm planning on picking up an early Locket, an Emblem of Valor does a lot to help out on the supports that like Locket (ie. those with no sustain and a tendency to take damage, like Leona).
The other advantage of Emblem on supports (especially those that aren't very mana hungry / need defenses) is that it gives you a few more options for starting items. Cloth Armor + 2 Wards + Pot is strong if you expect to be a meatshield for your carry (Nunu/Kog is a classic example), and Rejuvenation Bead + 3 Wards gives you both much-needed lane sustain and a reasonable amount of bush control- Blitzcrank really likes having some early defense, but often has to trade off ward coverage for it. Emblem gives you the best of both worlds which comes in very handy.

Useful considerations. I'll update the guide and give some variations a try. The thing is, a support that doesn't buy HoG is losing out on about a ward per 2 minutes, so he has to manage his money more carefully in order to not end up out of funds at a crucial moment. And with Philo doing more of the g/10 work, a superfast Shurelya's might actually be detrimental, so you'd have to delay and pick up a different item first, like Aegis or Locket. A playstyle adaptation, not a criticism of the idea.

[Gauntlet]

I never said a superfast Shurelia was a good idea (unless you have a Kage's or something)- just a Philo and a Kindlegem are both good ideas. I often get the pair and leave them for a while as I pick up an Oracles, maybe an Emblem of Valor or an Aegis before building Shurelia's, but both the components are just really good for what they do.
Then again maybe I just overvalue it. I find myself building Shurelia's on champs like Irelia and Nocturne half the time >.>

[9mm]

Yay Cho buffs. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoIW-P2ypQs)

Also PBE SKINS OF AWESOME (http://imgur.com/a/uvLZR#3pEHm)

[Tychris1]

Yay Cho buffs. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoIW-P2ypQs)

Also PBE SKINS OF AWESOME (http://imgur.com/a/uvLZR#3pEHm)


Wow, what champ is that? The icon feels familiar but I can't put a name on it. At first I thought Cho but it looks like it has blasters. Hmmmm.

Edit: And at the bottom there are little battle cast Urgots, how cute.

[tyckspoon]

Wow, what champ is that? The icon feels familiar but I can't put a name on it. At first I thought Cho but it looks like it has blasters. Hmmmm.

Edit: And at the bottom there are little battle cast Urgots, how cute.

Pretty sure it's a Cho. I don't think any other champ has the upper-lower quad arms/attachments like that, and he appears to be depicted mid-Scream.

[MCerberus]

Wow, what champ is that? The icon feels familiar but I can't put a name on it. At first I thought Cho but it looks like it has blasters. Hmmmm.

Edit: And at the bottom there are little battle cast Urgots, how cute.

With the size, it has to be Cho, with blasters for Vorpals.

[Tychris1]

wat.


Pair Darius with Teemo bot, scary stuff happens to the enemy, scary stuff indeed.

Also, anyone have advice on Xerath? A lower leveled friend of mine is maiming him and I can't give him much advice since I don't play the lightning man (Well outside of the basics of gameplay and "Stay in back, lightning bolt").

[TechnOkami]

So, Cho'Gath is now becoming a Metal Gear? I'm down with that.

[Math_Mage]

Pair Darius with Teemo bot, scary stuff happens to the enemy, scary stuff indeed.

Until you get kited. You have no way to force an engagement. You also don't have great gank escape.


Also, anyone have advice on Xerath? A lower leveled friend of mine is maiming him and I can't give him much advice since I don't play the lightning man (Well outside of the basics of gameplay and "Stay in back, lightning bolt").

I don't play him either, but one piece of general advice: against mobile foes, save stun for when they come at you, don't use the stun just to harass or you'll get initiated on while it's on CD.

[Maeglin_Dubh]

Edit: And at the bottom there are little battle cast Urgots, how cute.

And a Skarner. Next battlecast skin, mebbe?

[Mutant Bunny]

Well, whaddaya know, Chogath is joining Victor's Glorious Evolution :smallbiggrin:

And at the risk of repeating myself, Twitch is a better choice to go with Darius than Teemo is. At least Twitch has a way of starting fights with his cask.

One more thing: part of me hopes that no part of Diana's kit makes her spin-to-win. The artwork in the link makes me think more of Jayce's "TO THE SKIES" aoe+gap closer than Skarner or Hecarim's Q clearing tools... which I like, I guess?

[Winthur]

Think of him was Blitzcrank with more damage and a slow instead of a knock-up. Pair him with Twitch, both of you take ignite, and the other guys die from too much damage over time.


I'm kind of doubtful Darius deals that much more damage. Blitzcrank's hook itself deals decent burst damage, so does the Power Fist along with the DPS on Static Field, particularly when not unloaded too early. Then Blitzcrank's hook is longer. He also moves faster. And the knock-up is relevant, simply because it gives more free DPS to the carry.

Blitzcrank already is decently responded to in lane if you just autoattack him and fend him off before he can position himself for a good pull (and a good pull for Blitz shouldn't be easy, you should be behind minions whenever possible and ward the brushes), and then Darius is much shorter ranged and is slow as hell.


Pair Darius with Teemo bot, scary stuff happens to the enemy, scary stuff indeed.

Two short-ranged characters that suck late game (same goes for Twitch/Darius). Have fun against a Janna in lane. :3

And sure, you can play pretty much any character in the game as a support, I'm just questioning putting Darius, a melee champion countered by range and kiting, into bot lane, which is home for AD carry lanes.

Even that dumb true damage ultimate that I wish people would stop talking about doesn't shine when heavy AD isn't invested into it.

[u-gotNOgame]

Atypical kill/heavy harass lane supports? Cassiopeia wins. It goes something like this.
1. Pick Cass
2. Take CDR runes and/or masteries
3. Buy Blue potions
4. Spam the hell out of all your abilities to keep your passive stacks high and your enemies health low
5. ???
6. Win lane, Win game

Pair with Graves for extra luls


At the end of the last thread we got on to junglers for newbies. One of the first jungles I learned was Amumu. He's fairly cheap (1350 IIRC) clears safely with or without runes from a variety of starts (boots 3pots or regrowth 1pot). Plus he can be built to bring the DPS, triple Doran ring Azingy style, or play tanky initiator and dish out an above average whooping.

-UGNG

[PersonMan]

I had a fun game with a support Cass a while ago. I was Teemo and it went really well, until we got crushed by the 6/0 Vayne who had been mid (by the way, this was another instance of 'you are 1/2 and 0/2/3, you are feeding' coming from the same person who gave Vayne 5 kills).

[TechnOkami]

How is Singed doing nowadays?

[Math_Mage]

How is Singed doing nowadays?

He tries to survive his numerous unfun lane matchups until he can get his Catalyst item and run around the map farming everything, or he tries to live on a jungler's farm. Pretty much business as usual.

[TechnOkami]

He tries to survive his numerous unfun lane matchups until he can get his Catalyst item and run around the map farming everything, or he tries to live on a jungler's farm. Pretty much business as usual.

Oh, ok. So it's just his early game which has gone south. Hmm... I might have to try him some time.

[Tergon]

Possibly funniest thing in League: Give Amumu a Rylai's Scepter, turn on Despair, and then go chase down a Singed who's leaving a Poison Trail. I feel like the Benny Hill Theme should be on in the background while we play "Who Will Die First."

[Darth Mario]

Possibly funniest thing in League: Give Amumu a Rylai's Scepter, turn on Despair, and then go chase down a Singed who's leaving a Poison Trail. I feel like the Benny Hill Theme should be on in the background while we play "Who Will Die First."

If Mumu can land his bandage tosses without fling screwing them up... usually Mumu. Also assuming no outside interference.

[sonofzeal]

How is Lulu these days? I never see her around, neither in game nor in discussion.

[Mephit]

She's not as straightforward as most supports, and she's kind of outclassed by the popular supports. I love her character design, but to me personally her kit isn't that appealing. The only really fun thing about her is her long range poke with Pix+Glitterlance. But that's not really efficient harass when you consider you're using 2 abilities for it.

In most situations, I'd just rather get Janna. That doesn't mean she's a bad pick in any way, but that's why she's not popular and isn't discussed much. You can certainly try her and do well with her.

Edit: When I say she's not as straightforward, I mean her skill floor is a bit higher. Soraka, Janna, Taric, etc all have fairly obvious abilitiy combos that you can do ok with if that's all you can do. Lulu's lane is about harassing the opponent with auto attacks and glitterlance, which is not as obvious to a lot of players.

[Math_Mage]

How is Lulu these days? I never see her around, neither in game nor in discussion.

Since the damage nerfs, she has trouble performing in mid, and everyone already uses Janna for her role in bot, and Teemo for her role in top.

[LordShotGun]

How is Lulu these days? I never see her around, neither in game nor in discussion.

Well she is the newest support which makes her expensive in IP. Since few people go into a game saying "Oh boy I wanna support today!" she doesn't get bought much by casual players.

As for high level games, I have no idea.

[sonofzeal]

I'm getting the impression that she's less of a pure support and almost more of a hybrid. Glitterlance is only +0.5/AP, but you're firing two, at long range, with good base damage and a slow. Comparing to Annie (my main), that Q seems a far more potent PvP tool - better damage, cheaper mana, much longer range, and a slow?!? OTOH, Annie's Q is best as a farm tool, and Lulu's obviously isn't. Lulu is likely never going to farm or push as well as Annie, but seems to bring a lot to the table in harass and teamfights, more than any "actual" support I've played.

While Lulu probably fits best as support in the current meta, perhaps that's the problem?

[Math_Mage]

I'm getting the impression that she's less of a pure support and almost more of a hybrid. Glitterlance is only +0.5/AP, but you're firing two, at long range, with good base damage and a slow. Comparing to Annie (my main), that Q seems a far more potent PvP tool - better damage, cheaper mana, much longer range, and a slow?!? OTOH, Annie's Q is best as a farm tool, and Lulu's obviously isn't. Lulu is likely never going to farm or push as well as Annie, but seems to bring a lot to the table in harass and teamfights, more than any "actual" support I've played.

While Lulu probably fits best as support in the current meta, perhaps that's the problem?

Many of the supports have viable farming roles. AP Soraka, Jungle TForce/Tanky Alistar, AP Alistar, Bruiser Taric, AP Nunu, and Everything Janna are some notable ones.

[sonofzeal]

Or maybe I'm just reading Glitterlance wrong. At 400 AP, Annie's Q does 245 + 0.7*400 = 525 damage; Lulu's does 2x(260+0.5*400) = 920, with a 300 range advantage, for 80% the mana cost.


......what?!? :smallconfused::smallconfused::smallconfused:

[Math_Mage]

Or maybe I'm just reading Glitterlance wrong. At 400 AP, Annie's Q does 245 + 0.7*400 = 525 damage; Lulu's does 2x(260+0.5*400) = 920, with a 300 range advantage, for 80% the mana cost.


......what?!? :smallconfused::smallconfused::smallconfused:

"An enemy can only be damaged by one bolt."

[sonofzeal]

"An enemy can only be damaged by one bolt."
:smalleek::smallredface::smalltongue:

I guess that'd do it, huh? There's still some potential, but yeah. Looks far more balance this way though.

[Laudandus]

The only team that I know really plays Lulu is Orbit, who play her with champions like Graves, where Lulu Q's a wave before Graves does, causing him to instantly clear it. They safely farm by shoving lane into tower repeatedly, and then take advantage of Lulu's scaling.

She's not strong as a support who attempts to engage in trades, though.

[sonofzeal]

....is Co-Op Malphite cursed or something?

Last game, I went 4/2/0 as Mal... and the team as a whole went 4/32/3. Surrender, of course. Game before that I got off to a worse start because of a failed jungle attempt and had a less stellar 2/6/1... against bots four levels higher than me, since the rest of the team totalled 3/36/4 (and I got off to a bad start on a failed jungle attempt).

I'm gonna give it one more try.....

[toasty]

I think Singed might be a valid counter to Shen. Then again, so my Shvyana, who's actually probably better.

I wish he was viable, but his early game is... terrible.

[Godskook]

Also: [Chogath is] probably a viable jungle, and probably has been since forever.

He's been on Stonewall's tier 1 since forever, and I've always seen others do well with him, I could just never do it well myself. Quality of life changes will make me consider trying him again, especially since landing his Q was one of my issues back when I tried him last.

[toasty]

m5 picks GP puts him in a 2v1 and he dies 5 times in 15 minutes.

So... GP still isn't good methinks.

[Laudandus]

Gangplank 1v2 actually sounds alright, but maybe not against an Alistar. CLG.EU is also probably the best team in the world, so I wouldn't take a loss to them as particularly indicative of champion strength.

Krepo also said in the postgame interview that basically Gangplank messed up/CLG.EU got lucky, which cost Gangplank the lane. I think Gangplank can be strong, and in particular I think that giving him red or blue buff at level 1 makes him one of the strongest top laners in the game.

[MCerberus]

Gangplank 1v2 actually sounds alright, but maybe not against an Alistar. CLG.EU is also probably the best team in the world, so I wouldn't take a loss to them as particularly indicative of champion strength.

Krepo also said in the postgame interview that basically Gangplank messed up/CLG.EU got lucky, which cost Gangplank the lane. I think Gangplank can be strong, and in particular I think that giving him red or blue buff at level 1 makes him one of the strongest top laners in the game.

More importantly, when am I going to see Froggen able to play Anivia? I haven't been able to catch him play my main... ever.

[Temotei]

Two short-ranged characters that suck late game (same goes for Twitch/Darius). Have fun against a Janna in lane. :3

Twitch has a bad late-game?


Possibly funniest thing in League: Give Amumu a Rylai's Scepter, turn on Despair, and then go chase down a Singed who's leaving a Poison Trail. I feel like the Benny Hill Theme should be on in the background while we play "Who Will Die First."


If Mumu can land his bandage tosses without fling screwing them up... usually Mumu. Also assuming no outside interference.

If Singed doesn't use his slow, yeah. He has higher movement speed than Amumu both with his base value and with force of nature. I think with proper flings, Singed could win it. It would just take a lot more effort than Amumu, who just has to land his Q and walk. Still, the CC reduction from his ult will make Singed harder to pin down and his movement speed will make him harder to hit.

Seems like a really situational setup to me.


....is Co-Op Malphite cursed or something?

Last game, I went 4/2/0 as Mal... and the team as a whole went 4/32/3. Surrender, of course. Game before that I got off to a worse start because of a failed jungle attempt and had a less stellar 2/6/1... against bots four levels higher than me, since the rest of the team totalled 3/36/4 (and I got off to a bad start on a failed jungle attempt).

I'm gonna give it one more try.....

Needs moar AD Malphite.

[Tesla_pasta]

Singed is still a nightmare on treeline when farmed properly. Once he gets catalyst + AP + moar defense, he becomes unkillable, and ruins every attempt an enemy makes at initiating. Pushin lanes all day every day, no tower is safe. Boots of speed plus 5 RoA.

okay just joking about the speed 5RoA thing.

RoA, Rylai's, FoN, Sunfire, FH, GA, abyssal, Merc/tabi are all good depending on enemy comp. I occationally buy a revolver for the troll-tastic trail healing if I'm stomping hard.

[fred dref]

I know Keglex was fond of RoA Deathcap. People would see the giant Singed HP bar and just ignore him out of habit while he did massive poison DPS.

[TentacleGirl]

Diana real fun.

[Winthur]

Twitch has a bad late-game?

:smallredface: Yeah, well, that was a little bit of a shortcut I took with words, but yeah, Twitch doesn't have a bad late game. Still doubt that a Twitch is going to get properly farmed up with a Darius in lane. Of course, solo queue is the place where everything works.

[Mephit]

m5 picks GP puts him in a 2v1 and he dies 5 times in 15 minutes.

So... GP still isn't good methinks.

To be fair, he got unlucky/misplayed it because Krepo hit level 2 just as he TP'd in so he got denied a ton of creeps as well as gave firstblood to Ez. Not a lot of champions can afford getting set back that hard in a 2v1.
It could've gone a lot better for him, and CLG.EU's bot lane is extremely strong.

But yeah, I agree. GP really isn't all that.



More importantly, when am I going to see Froggen able to play Anivia? I haven't been able to catch him play my main... ever.

E-mail the Koreans to leave her unbanned a game or two. I'm not sure they'll comply, though. :smallwink:

[Silverraptor]

Guys...
http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt255/silverraptor_photo/Screenshots/065.png

[lord_khaine]

So guys, ever had a game that you felt your team didnt deserve to win?

Cause i just had one where the Maokai and Nocturne both instalocked as junglers, and then spend first ½ of the game calling each other names and fighting over the jungle, leaving me to hold bot lane as Leona.

Around the 20 min mark i think the score was 2-12 or something, with a couple of towers and at least one dragon in their favor.

Of course, their team was Shaco, Lee Sin, Draves, Talon and Leona, and amazingly enough everyone but our Ahri actualy started stacking armor and HP.

Well, none of them were smart enough to get a Last Whisper, so guess what happend next?

[Mutant Bunny]

So guys, ever had a game that you felt your team didnt deserve to win?

Cause i just had one where the Maokai and Nocturne both instalocked as junglers, and then spend first ½ of the game calling each other names and fighting over the jungle, leaving me to hold bot lane as Leona.

Around the 20 min mark i think the score was 2-12 or something, with a couple of towers and at least one dragon in their favor.

Of course, their team was Shaco, Lee Sin, Draves, Talon and Leona, and amazingly enough everyone but our Ahri actualy started stacking armor and HP.

Well, none of them were smart enough to get a Last Whisper, so guess what happend next?

Is Draves supposed to be Draven or Graves?

It was their game to lose, and they messed it up. Their earliest mistake (all-AD, 3 of whom are assassins) and later (not building hybridized damage or armor penetration) mistakes hurt their team more than your team's early mistakes hurt yours. Sometimes, that's the way of things.

Also, your team apparently managed to pull together and responded properly to the enemy teamcomp, so you have that in your favor.

[TechnOkami]

Guys...
http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt255/silverraptor_photo/Screenshots/065.png

Sounds like an average day in the life of Djinn.

[Mutant Bunny]

Hey guys. Draven and Graves. They both need skins where they use glowsticks. Draven in particular.

[Neoseanster]

Everything Janna

This man gets it right.

[TheGeckoKing]

Just game back from a game, and I both had a good time and hammered the other team;

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu89/Gecko-King/Overview5.png

Btw, when I say "the other team", I mean Nocturne. 0/16, yikes!

[MCerberus]

Hey guys. Draven and Graves. They both need skins where they use glowsticks. Draven in particular.

Riot: Oooh I know what our next Teemo skin will be!

[sonofzeal]

Riot: Oooh I know what our next Teemo skin will be!
Traveo ftw! :smallbiggrin:

[Math_Mage]

I think Singed might be a valid counter to Shen. Then again, so my Shvyana, who's actually probably better.

I wish he was viable, but his early game is... terrible.

Feint + Vorpal + passive > Singed combo. You can push him into tower eventually, at least until he gets Wit's End.

[toasty]

Yeah, I actually didn't see FB that game, and GP seemed to do all right in the end, but I still think he needs some buffs.

Singed v Shen: the thing is, if Shen TPs out of the lane, he's a good pick for shoving the lane, and he has decent split push late game anyways.

Then again, Lane Udyr or even Chogath might fulfill a similar role late game.

[Temotei]

Singed v Shen: the thing is, if Shen TPs out of the lane, he's a good pick for shoving the lane, and he has decent split push late game anyways.

He can also fling while Shen's ulting if he decides to prevent the teleport.

On Shen, how do you cancel the teleport after shielding? I've done it before, but I forgot how to.

[Godskook]

He can also fling while Shen's ulting if he decides to prevent the teleport.

On Shen, how do you cancel the teleport after shielding? I've done it before, but I forgot how to.

Its a channel, but channeling only affects the teleportation.

[Temotei]

Its a channel, but channeling only affects the teleportation.

I know. I've canceled it mid-teleport, though. I just don't remember how.

[Godskook]

I know. I've canceled it mid-teleport, though. I just don't remember how.

What, exactly, is wrong with simply moving? There's probably an anti-doofus snare in the skill, but after .5 seconds or so, you should be able to walk out of it by yourself.

(Legitimately asking, I haven't played Shen in a *LONG* time)

[Temotei]

What, exactly, is wrong with simply moving? There's probably an anti-doofus snare in the skill, but after .5 seconds or so, you should be able to walk out of it by yourself.

(Legitimately asking, I haven't played Shen in a *LONG* time)

I tried it recently and it didn't work. The cursor thing told me I was moving there, but it didn't cancel the teleportation and Shen kept channeling. Maybe Shadow Dash would cancel it. I dunno. The main reason I'm asking is because sometimes I have to save someone when I'm fairly close to them and want to keep fighting while still granting the shield.

[EifieFlare]

You can cancel Shen's ult on your own with Teleport and Flash. There may be more ways to interrupt the channel, but I only tested a few things. For the record, Cleanse, Ghost, Surge, Heal, Zhonya's, QSS, Ghostblade, and Randuin's don't stop it. You've probably also found that trying to move and Shadow Dash don't stop it. I'm not sure if using a summoner to interrupt the channel is worth it or not, but there you go.

Also, could I get added to the list? I'm not particularly good, but I'd like to play some more now that I have time and a good computer.

Server: NA
Forum name: EifieFlare
Summoner name: EifieFlare

[lord_khaine]

Wow, that was an amazing fight between CLG and SK there, around 40 min's of being unsore on the outcome of the battle is a rare thing to see.

[Godskook]

Also, could I get added to the list? I'm not particularly good, but I'd like to play some more now that I have time and a good computer.

Server: NA
Forum name: EifieFlare
Summoner name: EifieFlare

Added, find us on mumble sometime, eh?

[Recaiden]

Just game back from a game, and I both had a good time and hammered the other team;

Btw, when I say "the other team", I mean Nocturne. 0/16, yikes!

That poor Nocturne. :smallfrown:


Diana real fun.

How well does she work outside of the jungle?

[PersonMan]

Well, I think it just happened again.

I carried.

Early game we're getting stomped - Hecarim top goes AFK in spawn when I cover his lane after he has to go b due to a level 2 gank until I leave the lane. He's losing it pretty hard, too.

Enemy Jungle Panth is getting fed, enemy AP Trist is 5/1. Enemy bot isn't that much of a problem, but our bot is behind.

This is my second game as Jungle GP and I'm the second best on the team (1/1/1, Sivir was 2/2/3). We have a couple good fights, some bad ones (I get a double kill in a good one). Between shutting down killing sprees, some farming and other kills I get kinda fed. It all just went up from there. We kept catching one or two of them away from the team. We got into 2 big fights and pushed, hard. One last fight starts badly - Janna tornadoes us all and we're having big trouble - then our ever-insane Hecarim (he chased Ez all the way across the map, into their base, at the end of a losing battle, killed him and lived long enough to get executed) rushes in. I go back in and frantically right-click hard enough to live. 5 for 3, barely.

Hecarim and I push and win.

[LordShotGun]

That poor Nocturne. :smallfrown:



How well does she work outside of the jungle?

She looks like a decent top laner. The shield and odd skill shot make it easy to trade. Just Autoattack, use the shield, stick to them till you proc all 3 orbs then retreat and if possible hit them on the way out with your curved skillshot which will avoid pushing the lane.

Downside is that she has a free cleave similar to nocturne and probably can't help but push the lane.

[Neftren]

Okay, I just had a total Mumble flub. So I was saying...

"My problem with Igneist is that... "


Derr... Ignite + Exhaust... anyways, my problem with Ignite and Exhaust is that I always press it the first time, and then forget to actually use it on the enemy...

[ZeroNumerous]

Derr... Ignite + Exhaust... anyways, my problem with Ignite and Exhaust is that I always press it the first time, and then forget to actually use it on the enemy...

Smartcast solves that problem.

[TechnOkami]

Is smart cast really that good though? I mean, I've never used it and I do fine. Does it make that much of a difference?

[Duos]

Smartcasting is practically a necessity with some champs (mostly casters because of combo speed) because it lets you cast really, really, fast.

[Qwertystop]

Is smart cast really that good though? I mean, I've never used it and I do fine. Does it make that much of a difference?

I turned it on for playing Orianna when she was free. I forgot to turn it off my next game. After an awesome kill with AP tristy, I didn't bother to turn it off.

[Laudandus]

Smartcasting is practically a necessity with some champs (mostly casters because of combo speed) because it lets you cast really, really, fast.

Champions who really improve with it are people like Ryze, Cassiopeia, Leblanc, and Tristana. Basically if you either just need to mash buttons or have to do a bunch of moves in quick succession, it's really good.

[Neoseanster]

I've been practicing my smartcasting after months playing without it, it indeed is great for some champions. I found it all but a necessity for Zyra, she just can't do her seed combos quickly enough without. And I've liked self-smartcasting for mid laners with a shield, like Janna, Orianna, etc. I usually turn it off or switch to regular smartcast by mid game so I won't accidentally shield myself instead of a carry as readily, but still handy.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Is smart cast really that good though? I mean, I've never used it and I do fine. Does it make that much of a difference?

Yes, yes, and yes.

Normal casting is nice to have for some abilities, but smartcasting and/or self/smartcasting is incredible, and definitely speeds up your play.

This is why I use my strange keyboard set-up. ASDW set to self+smartcast for normal abilities (shift making them smartcast only) and Ults, Q+E smartcast for summoners (which rarely need to be manually targeted unless you're bad with smartcasting), and ZXCF for the basic "click button and aim" ability set.

It gives me the maximum versatility: I can smartcast Veigar's Q and W after precisely targeting his stun with normal targeting, for example, but also drop a quick inaccurate stun behind me to avoid chasers. :smallbiggrin:

[Laudandus]

I've been practicing my smartcasting after months playing without it, it indeed is great for some champions. I found it all but a necessity for Zyra, she just can't do her seed combos quickly enough without. And I've liked self-smartcasting for mid laners with a shield, like Janna, Orianna, etc. I usually turn it off or switch to regular smartcast by mid game so I won't accidentally shield myself instead of a carry as readily, but still handy.

I prefer to use Alt+ability for self-smartcast, to avoid the team fight ability misuse you mentioned. I've never thought about changing key binds partway through a game; that's interesting, but I feel like muscle memory / reflexes would develop more slowly that way.

[Tergon]

What's people's thoughts on Blitzcrank?

I tend to play him as an offensive support - yanking in champs, disabling them, disrupting channels, but getting very few kills. It seems to work, but it also means that I end up not being much of a threat by myself late-game.

My usual build for him is Manamune, Mercury Treads, Lich Bane and Frozen Heart, with the other two items being defensive or offensive as the game calls for.

I do okay with him, and he's fun, but I always want to do better. Any tips from those who play him often, build suggestions, or non-obvious playing strategies?

[JKTrickster]

Hey! I just wanna add myself to the list (I forgot to do this before :smallsigh:)

Server: NA
Forum name: JKTrickster
Summoner name: ZenTrickster

I'm pretty bad because I don't play often enough and I don't have a "main" champion yet. :smallsigh:

I'm trying to learn Amumu though - the jungle is easy at least, but landing that Q skillshot to gank is pretty hard.

Any tips? :smallsmile:

[9mm]

hmm... hey PBE'ers how noticible is this? (http://imgur.com/jS1pP)

[Tergon]

I'm trying to learn Amumu though - the jungle is easy at least, but landing that Q skillshot to gank is pretty hard.

Any tips? :smallsmile:

Don't initiate with the bandage unless you're sure you can land it - like when they're standing still to fire off abilities or the like. You're better off running in, and using the bandage to intercept them when they try to run, because at that point you can predict which way they move.
Bandage Toss only needs one point until the other abilities are maxed out. If you're jungling, Despair should be your first pick, but for the damage reduction and the spam ability, max out Tantrum at your earliest convenience.
For items, get yourself a Frozen Heart for the cooldown reduction and the mana boost, which combined with Blue buff will let you fire off abilities pretty much at will. I personally go the combination of Rylai's Scepter, Sunfire Cape and Force of Nature for items; they make him all but indestructible together, and the resulting AoE damage and slow will terrify the enemy. Mercury Treads are good boots for him for the Tenacity, and your sixth item can be whatever suits the game. Thornmail or Warmog's is usually a good choice.
The key to Amumu is timing, though. Pick the moment when your Ult will snare as many opponents at once as possible, when you have a teammate ready to back you up. You can survive most engagements, but unless the other team is hilariously incompetent your damage output just isn't enough to tank a whole team by yourself. Accept that by initiating and Ulting, you will die a fair bit in games, but your death can wipe out the entire enemy team if used right, which is exactly the point.
He's very powerful and very scary if used right. One of my favourite champs. Get to know him and you'll love him too.

[TechnOkami]

Hum... now I need to reconfigure my keys. *grumble grumble*

Does anyone suggest a key setup? I personally rest my forefinger to my pinkey on Q,W,E, & R, with my thumb resting on the space bar. From there, my other fingers can easily reach the activateable items and summoner spells easily. What, if I like that sort of setup, would be a good button to switch my keys to smart cast when necessary?

P.S. I have it this way 'cause it's comfy and keys are easy to reach.

[Math_Mage]

Hum... now I need to reconfigure my keys. *grumble grumble*

Does anyone suggest a key setup? I personally rest my forefinger to my pinkey on Q,W,E, & R, with my thumb resting on the space bar. From there, my other fingers can easily reach the activateable items and summoner spells easily. What, if I like that sort of setup, would be a good button to switch my keys to smart cast when necessary?

P.S. I have it this way 'cause it's comfy and keys are easy to reach.

I just set QWER to smartcast, personally. But if you don't selfcast things, and you don't want to default smartcast everything, Alt is a good smartcast hotkey.

[TechnOkami]

I just set QWER to smartcast, personally. But if you don't selfcast things, and you don't want to default smartcast everything, Alt is a good smartcast hotkey.

That makes sense. I think I'll try both out (perma-smartcast & button triggered smartcast) and see which method I prefer.

[ex cathedra]

I'm just going to add some additional Amumu commentary/advice.

Bandage Toss only needs one point until the other abilities are maxed out. If you're jungling, Despair should be your first pick, but for the damage reduction and the spam ability, max out Tantrum at your earliest convenience.
Never max W before Q. You have two real choices: Max E>Q>W, or max Q>E>W. Obviously, maxing Tantrum lets you farm much more easily but maxing Toss makes your midgame ganks, especially considering the AP that you'll have, so much more brutal. Maxing W only increases the damage minutely. Not only does Q get huge damage returns per level, but the difference between rank 1's cooldown and rank 5's cooldown is massive. If you intend to use more than one Toss per fight, you need to max it by level 13 at the latest.

For items, get yourself a Frozen Heart for the cooldown reduction and the mana boost, which combined with Blue buff will let you fire off abilities pretty much at will. I personally go the combination of Rylai's Scepter, Sunfire Cape and Force of Nature for items; they make him all but indestructible together, and the resulting AoE damage and slow will terrify the enemy. Mercury Treads are good boots for him for the Tenacity, and your sixth item can be whatever suits the game. Thornmail or Warmog's is usually a good choice.
Frozen Heart is an excellent defensive item on Amumu. You should be giving your blue buff to your mid laner in many situations, though, and keeping it for yourself all game is not only very selfish but poor play unless you have a very blue-independent set of solo-laners. Anyways, back to Frozen Heart. In general, mass defensive itemization isn't very efficient on Amumu. Really, you put it pretty well:

You can survive most engagements, but unless the other team is hilariously incompetent your damage output just isn't enough to tank a whole team by yourself.
Regardless of what you build, you're going to contribute to the fight. Even if you have zero defenses or zero damage, the very act of Q-R'ing into a teamfight is enough to make Amumu a useful champion. That, and the "tank" tag that Riot gave him, is why I think that people tend to build Amumu far tankier than he needs to be.

After you Q-R, though, Amumu does... what? He cries at people. He tantrums. Can he peel (jargon; for anyone not familiar, peeling involves using strong, repeatable, and/or low-cooldown CC to protect the squishy members of your team from the enemy team)? No. Is his base damage high enough to threaten people? No. So, if he can't contribute in the same way as a normal tank (e.g. Nautilus, Alistar, Leona), why are you building him like a normal tank? Warmog's, FoN? What does they actually let you do in a teamfight? Let let you do mediocre damage and demonstrate how poor your peeling is for a longer period of time. That's pretty much it.

You can probably get away with building full tank Amumu, but that's only because of how strong his initiation is in the first place. If you don't build damage, you aren't reaching his full potential. Until the upcoming patch hits, Amumu's bandage toss and ultimate each have a 1.0 AP ratio. That's huge. That's better than Zyra's Q, E, and R ratios combined, and Amumu still has two more abilities that scale with AP.

Frozen Heart is strong. You're still a melee champion, and so I'm not advocating that you build glass cannon or anything. At the very least, you need one or two of Frozen Heart, Sunfire Cape, and Hourglass, one or two of Abyssal Scepter and Athene's Unholy Grail, and one or two of Rylai's Crystal Scepter and Will of the Ancients.

AP Bruiser itemization is ridiculously strong, and Amumu's is in a good place to take advantage of that. Your first two major items should be Abyssal Scepter (or, rarely, Athene's) and Frozen Heart or Sunfire Cape. To get there, either build a few gp10 items (Philo Stone, Heart of Gold, or Kage's Lucky Pick) or build two to three Doran's Rings.

After that, you should build according to the enemy team. If they're double AP, you can get away with both Athene's and Abyssal. If they're AD heavy, build two of those armor items that I mentioned. If you can build whatever you want, I would suggest picking up WotA if your team can use it well or otherwise buying Rylai's or Deathcap.


That makes sense. I think I'll try both out (perma-smartcast & button triggered smartcast) and see which method I prefer.

The game already assigns shift+Q to smartcast Q, etc.

[JKTrickster]

Don't initiate with the bandage unless you're sure you can land it - like when they're standing still to fire off abilities or the like. You're better off running in, and using the bandage to intercept them when they try to run, because at that point you can predict which way they move.
Bandage Toss only needs one point until the other abilities are maxed out. If you're jungling, Despair should be your first pick, but for the damage reduction and the spam ability, max out Tantrum at your earliest convenience.
For items, get yourself a Frozen Heart for the cooldown reduction and the mana boost, which combined with Blue buff will let you fire off abilities pretty much at will. I personally go the combination of Rylai's Scepter, Sunfire Cape and Force of Nature for items; they make him all but indestructible together, and the resulting AoE damage and slow will terrify the enemy. Mercury Treads are good boots for him for the Tenacity, and your sixth item can be whatever suits the game. Thornmail or Warmog's is usually a good choice.
The key to Amumu is timing, though. Pick the moment when your Ult will snare as many opponents at once as possible, when you have a teammate ready to back you up. You can survive most engagements, but unless the other team is hilariously incompetent your damage output just isn't enough to tank a whole team by yourself. Accept that by initiating and Ulting, you will die a fair bit in games, but your death can wipe out the entire enemy team if used right, which is exactly the point.
He's very powerful and very scary if used right. One of my favourite champs. Get to know him and you'll love him too.

Ahh those are words of wisdom! Waiting to intercept is such a bright idea!

Why didn't I think of that???

Looking at it, I can see the benefits of maxing Tantrum first. I'm looking at maxing Q though - this lowers the CD on it and provides a lot of damage. Of course this primarily helps for ganking but I normally like playing with friends so we can communicate ganks better.

I thought about it and I thought about making an Aegis or Abyssal over a Sunfire Cape. Is this a good idea?

[ex cathedra]

I thought about it and I thought about making an Aegis or Abyssal over a Sunfire Cape. Is this a good idea?
¿Porque no los dos?

[MCerberus]

Those games where you just feel the snowball coming, and you know you're the only one keeping the team from being crushed. I win my Aniva vs Zyra lane, while still letting Li Sin take wraiths until level 10, 0-0 but I'm just outfarming like mad.

Meanwhile, GP gives up first blood.
Then GP dies, then GP dies but gets an assist.
Then my turret dies because I had to blunt a 3-person top push while GP is dead. More farm at least... but hey mid game.

Then GP is caught out of position. All the time. All team fights are now down a person because GP loves running into the jax he knows can 1v1 him even if his team wasn't roaming around with him (they were).

But hey, 3-1 at least... then the figure out 'kill the bird first, just murder it'. They just dive at me, and the other decently farmed person on the team is... Sivir. So when I'm dead they can take out 2 turrets!

/grumble.

[Godskook]

Hey! I just wanna add myself to the list (I forgot to do this before :smallsigh:)

Server: NA
Forum name: JKTrickster
Summoner name: ZenTrickster

I'm pretty bad because I don't play often enough and I don't have a "main" champion yet. :smallsigh:

I'm trying to learn Amumu though - the jungle is easy at least, but landing that Q skillshot to gank is pretty hard.

Any tips? :smallsmile:

1.Noted

2.Typically, its better to save Q for chasing after the gank has begun, rather than opening with it. With proper positioning and/or CC from the laner, you should be able to get within melee range without Q, force their flash, and Q back on top of them.

3.I max Tantrum first, as its reliable(I'm bad at skill shots) and bursty(Burst > DPS early game in ganks). Tears need a point early for DPS, but Aethernox is probably right, max Toss by lvl 13.

[TechnOkami]

The game already assigns shift+Q to smartcast Q, etc.

It's annoying to reach the shift button w/ my pinkie. It's far easier to hit the alt button w/ my thumb.

[Neoseanster]

I built Zhonya's on an Amumu game earlier today. It felt gooooood.

Q/R/E'd in, cried on people a bit, got focused, hourglassed at 500 HP, E/Q'd again, flashed out. Easy won team fight.

[JKTrickster]

I'm just going to add some additional Amumu commentary/advice.

Thanks!


You can probably get away with building full tank Amumu, but that's only because of how strong his initiation is in the first place. If you don't build damage, you aren't reaching his full potential. Until the upcoming patch hits, Amumu's bandage toss and ultimate each have a 1.0 AP ratio. That's huge. That's better than Zyra's Q, E, and R ratios combined, and Amumu still has two more abilities that scale with AP.


Do you think this is still viable after the next patch? I mean those AP ratios are still rather high...



Frozen Heart is strong. You're still a melee champion, and so I'm not advocating that you build glass cannon or anything. At the very least, you need one or two of Frozen Heart, Sunfire Cape, and Hourglass, one or two of Abyssal Scepter and Athene's Unholy Grail, and one or two of Rylai's Crystal Scepter and Will of the Ancients.

When you say one or two of, you mean choosing one or two of the following, right?


AP Bruiser itemization is ridiculously strong, and Amumu's is in a good place to take advantage of that. Your first two major items should be Abyssal Scepter (or, rarely, Athene's) and Frozen Heart or Sunfire Cape. To get there, either build a few gp10 items (Philo Stone, Heart of Gold, or Kage's Lucky Pick) or build two to three Doran's Rings.

Yeah thats what I normally do. A quick question: on most builds, I don't normally manage to get a Shurelyas or a Randuins...is that a big issue?


After that, you should build according to the enemy team. If they're double AP, you can get away with both Athene's and Abyssal. If they're AD heavy, build two of those armor items that I mentioned. If you can build whatever you want, I would suggest picking up WotA if your team can use it well or otherwise buying Rylai's or Deathcap.

Thanks for the advice!



¿Porque no los dos?

Cause sometimes I just get the support to build Aegis instead :smallbiggrin:


1.Noted

2.Typically, its better to save Q for chasing after the gank has begun, rather than opening with it. With proper positioning and/or CC from the laner, you should be able to get within melee range without Q, force their flash, and Q back on top of them.

3.I max Tantrum first, as its reliable(I'm bad at skill shots) and bursty(Burst > DPS early game in ganks). Tears need a point early for DPS, but Aethernox is probably right, max Toss by lvl 13.

I'm fluctuating between the two - while I am bad at skillshots as well, I like the idea of throwing a small truck at them every time with my Q. Honestly it's really fun and maxing it by 9 lets me use it at least twice per fight. Really invaluable IMO.

[dgnslyr]

A bit late for the Blitz discussion, but I've found that as support, I have no money to afford a Tear at any remotely early time, when gold/10s are much more urgent. From there I get Frozen Heart and eventually finish Shurelias. For damage, Sheen is probably the best item for him in terms of efficiency, but I find I never do much damage in fights anyways, with or without Sheen, so I leave the damage to my team-mates and just build tank items and landing timely grabs and punches.

I really don't like AP on him, when it generally feels very lackluster, especially in comparison to, say, Amumu or even Nautilus. Lichbane I like even less, because without any real AP items, the procs actually do less damage than an unupgraded Sheen.

Really, Shurelia's is the best thing, because it really gives the decisive edge in teamfights. Randuin's is also good, but I don't usually buy it; Frozen Heart has a higher priority, and I'd only get it if I find I need a second major armor item, which is not always the case.

[Temotei]

A bit late for the Blitz discussion, but I've found that as support, I have no money to afford a Tear at any remotely early time, when gold/10s are much more urgent. From there I get Frozen Heart and eventually finish Shurelias. For damage, Sheen is probably the best item for him in terms of efficiency, but I find I never do much damage in fights anyways, with or without Sheen, so I leave the damage to my team-mates and just build tank items and landing timely grabs and punches.

I really don't like AP on him, when it generally feels very lackluster, especially in comparison to, say, Amumu or even Nautilus. Lichbane I like even less, because without any real AP items, the procs actually do less damage than an unupgraded Sheen.

Really, Shurelia's is the best thing, because it really gives the decisive edge in teamfights. Randuin's is also good, but I don't usually buy it; Frozen Heart has a higher priority, and I'd only get it if I find I need a second major armor item, which is not always the case.

Tear/Manamune is lackluster anyway on Blitz. I play Blitz on TT with Triforce and that's usually enough for two separate fights. Glacial shroud/Frozen Heart just makes it easier to keep using grab/ult repeatedly without going back or caring about the shield.

[ex cathedra]

Do you think this is still viable after the next patch? I mean those AP ratios are still rather high...
Yes, it just won't be as absurdly strong. You would have to either practically halve his AP ratios across the board or rework one or more of his skills to do something more than pure damage in order to significantly change Amumu.

When you say one or two of, you mean choosing one or two of the following, right?
Precisely.

Yeah thats what I normally do. A quick question: on most builds, I don't normally manage to get a Shurelyas or a Randuins...is that a big issue?
While Randuin's is good on pretty much every champion in the game, it isn't particularly necessary on Amumu and he generally excels in comps where you'll find other champions with Randuin's.

Shurelya's can be passed up pretty easily. It is, however, pretty necessary if you're the only form of initiation on your entire team. If you have anyone else who's capable of helping, you should be fine without it (or just with your Support's Shurelya's).

[Tergon]

Never max W before Q. You have two real choices: Max E>Q>W, or max Q>E>W. Obviously, maxing Tantrum lets you farm much more easily but maxing Toss makes your midgame ganks, especially considering the AP that you'll have, so much more brutal. Maxing W only increases the damage minutely. Not only does Q get huge damage returns per level, but the difference between rank 1's cooldown and rank 5's cooldown is massive. If you intend to use more than one Toss per fight, you need to max it by level 13 at the latest.
Hmm, okay, I'll give you that. I usually upgrade Despair first because it does do a pretty good job of taking down the higher-HP nasties like Dragon or Baron, to say nothing of enemy tanks if you can stick close to them. The stronger the enemy is, the more it hurts them. But yes, I'll agree that if you're thinking of the initiating strike, Bandage Toss does deserve a higher priority than I just suggested.


Regardless of what you build, you're going to contribute to the fight. Even if you have zero defenses or zero damage, the very act of Q-R'ing into a teamfight is enough to make Amumu a useful champion. That, and the "tank" tag that Riot gave him, is why I think that people tend to build Amumu far tankier than he needs to be.

After you Q-R, though, Amumu does... what? He cries at people. He tantrums. Can he peel (jargon; for anyone not familiar, peeling involves using strong, repeatable, and/or low-cooldown CC to protect the squishy members of your team from the enemy team)? No. Is his base damage high enough to threaten people? No. So, if he can't contribute in the same way as a normal tank (e.g. Nautilus, Alistar, Leona), why are you building him like a normal tank? Warmog's, FoN? What does they actually let you do in a teamfight? Let let you do mediocre damage and demonstrate how poor your peeling is for a longer period of time. That's pretty much it.
Because of the terrifying combination of Rylai's Scepter, Sunfire Cape, and Despair. Combined with Tantrum Spam and Bandages whenever you can pull it off, the peeling is not slow at all for him. And the enemies who try to run from you, courtesy of Rylai's, will be very slow indeed.
I said you can't tank a whole team by yourself. But that doesn't mean by any scope of the imagination that you'll be unable to heavily influence the outcome of a team fight. A tanky Amumu can soak up damage easily, block skillshots, disrupt, and with the combination of Rylai's and Frozen heart they move and attack far more slowly. And all the while, Sunfire and Despair are tearing down their HP. You'll devour an enemy tank while you focus your actual abilities on the squishies. FoN and Warmog's allow you to simply survive longer to do this while running fast enough from the FoN bonus to ensure the slowed-down enemies can't get away from your area of influence.

Building tanky bruiser Amumu is definitely an effective build, I could not agree more. But you're severely underestimating what he can do with a properly tanky build when using the right items. At the end of the game you might have single-digit kills, but do it right and 20+ assists will come as easy as breathing. Which is the whole objective for a CC Tank, after all.

[Math_Mage]

Because of the terrifying combination of Rylai's Scepter, Sunfire Cape, and Despair

Let me just point out that this is not what most people mean when they talk about building Amumu as a tank.

[Tergon]

Let me just point out that this is not what most people mean when they talk about building Amumu as a tank.
No, but supplementing those with a Force of Nature or a Warmog's Armour is definitely pushing him into serious tanky ground. It's just that the damage and slow mean that him being a tank now has serious advantages. Once the teamfight breaks up and the enemy tries to run, Amumu can chase down pretty much anybody and kill them just by being close. On the other hand, with a build this tanky, even if your team loses the teamfight you're likely to survive longer than others, and you're damn near unchaseable. It means you can also hold a turret easily because nobody can get near you.

It's not just about making him a tank, it's making him a tank with a few extras.

[ex cathedra]

No, but supplementing those with a Force of Nature or a Warmog's Armour is definitely pushing him into serious tanky ground.

For what it's worth, Warmog's is too expensive on a jungler's gold income (it's about as silly as building Deathcap but building Deathcap can win you teamfights). If you insist on something like it, Aegis is a very similar item, but it provides an aura and is much easier to purchase. FoN is just worse than Abyssal Scepter on anyone with half-decent AP ratios. Abyssal Scepter; it's probably the best AP item in the game. Build it.

[Tergon]

I'll bow to you on what works best for a jungler. I admit freely that I much prefer to lane with Amumu and play him as a tank rather than build AP - I'm happy to disrupt, slow, and peel the enemy while the nukers, burst mages, and physical DPS champs mop up whatever's left of their HP. My build focuses more on CC and survivability, which you're right, is probably not optimal for a jungler.

As a tank, though, it truly does work. People tend to forget that Rylai's and Sunfire Cape give a hefty HP boost each. Stacking on a FoN means you'll regenerate health incredibly quickly, and with the Mercury Treads as boots you can shrug off magical attacks pretty easily. With the Frozen Heart to slow incoming attacks and boost your armour, you're much harder to take down, and you of course have quicker cooldowns and more mana to keep up ability spam. The sixth item slot is perfect for a Warmog's if you can afford it, and if you think you'll be able to charge it up before the game ends. If not, get a Thornmail to use that hefty health pool and regeneration against their AD attackers. If they have none, swap it over for a Banshee's Veil, or even get that Abyssal Scepter you were talking about. The damage is intimidating, you're damn near unnkillable, and the simple fact is that you end up killing the enemy team by virtue of the fact that you yourself are not dying.

Sub-optimal, lower killscores, a less perfect ganking machine... maybe. But it's still terrifyingly effective!

[FireJustice]

Those guys got a point.
I play mainly in the jungle, and frequently play amumu.

Two builds to go.

One is Cloth+5pots/Boots 1/Philo+Hog/Aegis/Boots 2Shurelia/Frozenheart Amumu. This is tank amumu. I like FH more than raduins cuz of mana + CDR are god sendins on amumu. Also, if i'm donating blue. I consider CDR boots early. Your strenght is your ulti, you want your ultimate to be up all the time. so, you can revert to Treads after maxing CDR. Two shurelias are better than one shurelia in the team. As the game progresses, you can go Abyssal/Randuin's(or Frozen heart if you got the other)/moar tank items

The second build is Boots+3pots/Philo/Catalyst/Roa/Sorc boots/Abysal Scepter. This is AP grenade amumu. You role is to go in, burn you cds and deal lots of damage.You will die. But the deal is to take half of the entire enemy team hp with you.
The order to engage is. Active W, Q to their team, R, E, and attack people
You can build a kage's lucky pick too.
Complete the build with DFG/Voidstaff/Rabadon/zhonias as seen fit.
Remember... "BE THE GRENADE"

[Math_Mage]

I'll bow to you on what works best for a jungler. I admit freely that I much prefer to lane with Amumu and play him as a tank rather than build AP - I'm happy to disrupt, slow, and peel the enemy while the nukers, burst mages, and physical DPS champs mop up whatever's left of their HP. My build focuses more on CC and survivability, which you're right, is probably not optimal for a jungler.

This poses the question of just where you can lane effectively with tanky Mumu, because the answer seems to be "Nowhere", but you seem to be having success.

[Tergon]

If jungling with a partner, get Bandage Toss first and make sure they know to capitalise when you use it. Often it actually helps, if you have good communication, to let them get in front and bait the enemy champs into attacking them so that Amumu can bandage in through his partner, using the damage and stun to get an easy kill early game. Especially with Ignite if they try to run. In this sort of situation, that's where you want to max Tantrum quickly so that you can do the Q + E combo for maximum effect.

If solo laning against a single opponent, Tantrum the better opener. Helps you to farm and feed, and especially against a melee opponent, it discourages them from getting too close. Bandage should definitely be your second skill, though, for all the reasons listed above. And for the love of all that's holy, unless you have Ghost or Flash ready, be very very careful about pushing because you are a very easy target to gank.

As for solo laning against two opponents, well. Don't do it. Simple as that. Early game you simply do not have the damage or sustainability to survive it.

Seriously, if you want to see what I'm talking about, the best advice is to simply give it a try. I'm not suggesting you'll be converted instantly - it might not suit your playstyle at all, and you may hate it. Or, if you simply have bad luck, it may not work for you.
All I can do is shrug and say that it definitely works for me, to the extent that Amumu is one of my most-played champions.

[Math_Mage]

If jungling with a partner, get Bandage Toss first and make sure they know to capitalise when you use it. Often it actually helps, if you have good communication, to let them get in front and bait the enemy champs into attacking them so that Amumu can bandage in through his partner, using the damage and stun to get an easy kill early game. Especially with Ignite if they try to run. In this sort of situation, that's where you want to max Tantrum quickly so that you can do the Q + E combo for maximum effect.

When jungling, you should attempt to sandwich gank, engage by walking in, and save Q to counter escape mechanisms.


If solo laning against a single opponent, Tantrum the better opener. Helps you to farm and feed, and especially against a melee opponent, it discourages them from getting too close. Bandage should definitely be your second skill, though, for all the reasons listed above. And for the love of all that's holy, unless you have Ghost or Flash ready, be very very careful about pushing because you are a very easy target to gank.

But you can't trade without pushing, and you plain can't win trades against a lot of solo laners.


Seriously, if you want to see what I'm talking about, the best advice is to simply give it a try. I'm not suggesting you'll be converted instantly - it might not suit your playstyle at all, and you may hate it. Or, if you simply have bad luck, it may not work for you.
All I can do is shrug and say that it definitely works for me, to the extent that Amumu is one of my most-played champions.

I would discourage you from employing this line of argument, as it is founded on your credibility as a skilled LoL player, and thus encourages people to question your personal skill, which leads to vitriolic arguments (as aethernox, Eldariel, candycorn, Acromos, and numerous other posters can testify). This is especially the case when you don't consider failure cases that involve the possible of the strategy, and only cite the weakness or poor luck of the player as reasons why the strategy might fail.

[Godskook]

When jungling, you should attempt to sandwich gank, engage by walking in, and save Q to counter escape mechanisms.

Not sure how it affects your reply, but I'm pretty sure he's got a typo in that section and actually meant "If laning with a partner", rather than "If jungling with a partner".

[Tergon]

That's quite fair enough. And please, I'm not at all trying to provoke any argument here! I'm just offering suggestions as to how I play Amumu and justifying my choices as best I can. But I'm not suggesting that my way is better than anyone else's, or that I'm a particularly awesome player. I reached level 30 mostly through persistence in the face of defeat than through any real skill. Of the group of friends I play with, I'm definitely the least skilled, and I have no doubt that I'm well below most of the gamers on this thread!

Playing Amumu the way I do is fun for me, and it at least seems to work. Whether that's through blind luck on my part, or through sheer stubborn pig-headedness on my part, I don't know. It's possible, perhaps even probable, that the only reason this build ever works is because it's so terrifyingly stupid that nobody sees it coming. But I'm definitely not putting myself on a pedestal. All I'm saying is that it works for me, and trying as best I can to justify how it does. I promise not to make any bold claims beyond that nor start any flamewars; I'm not that guy, I swear!


Not sure how it affects your reply, but I'm pretty sure he's got a typo in that section and actually meant "If laning with a partner", rather than "If jungling with a partner".

You're absolutely right, I did. Sorry.

[Temotei]

Whether that's through blind luck on my part, or through sheer stubborn pig-headedness on my part, I don't know.

Stubbornness is the best mindset to get in when playing Amumu, in my experience. It's why I can go for many, many months without playing him and then just pick him up and win games. It just seems to work, somehow.

[ex cathedra]

Tergon, I was wondering if you've had the chance to play Nautilus? Given your comments, I suspect that he might fit your style of play.

[Mutant Bunny]

What's people's thoughts on Blitzcrank?

I tend to play him as an offensive support - yanking in champs, disabling them, disrupting channels, but getting very few kills. It seems to work, but it also means that I end up not being much of a threat by myself late-game.

My usual build for him is Manamune, Mercury Treads, Lich Bane and Frozen Heart, with the other two items being defensive or offensive as the game calls for.

I do okay with him, and he's fun, but I always want to do better. Any tips from those who play him often, build suggestions, or non-obvious playing strategies?

As someone else said, don't go for lich bane if you don't have any other sources of AP.

Blitz does like mana, but if you have extra cash in lane that's not going to wards or GP/5s, consider getting catalyst. I'd say that, aside from the essential gp5s, your Blitz core is Bveil, frozen heart, and Triforce (zeal being the least important component). And wards, I guess.

Some tactical things I learned from my time playing Blitz:
Blitz is good at sieges, especially when you and your team are up against the wall of the enemy base, right outside the inhibitor turret. Throw your Q over the wall (ward beforehand, if possible) and if you hit, you've probably created an easy focus target for your team.

A similar principle applies at Baron and Dragon (depending on whether you're blue or purple team); set your wards in places you expect the enemy will camp if they're trying to steal, and if they show up, give them a surprise robot hug from across the wall.

Use your grab to pull enemy buff monsters over the walls, where your teammates will be able to kill it without walking all the way into the camp, where it's easier for the enemy team to catch them.

In lane, you don't necessarily have to use your Q to start trades. Run up to them and E, then use your Q to pull them back in when they try to run.

It's OK to use your ult to clear a minion wave. The cooldown is short enough that it will probably be up the next time you need it.

Depending on the enemies you're facing, you may want to avoid triggering your ult as part of a combo; it's an AoE interrupt with a solid damage component, but if the enemy team has potent channeling abilities (nunu, katarina, malzahar, and warwick, to name a few), it's probably worthwhile to save it for when the interrupt will be most useful.

If you're playing draft mode, don't pick Blitz against Alistar.

And in case you couldn't tell from the rest of the post, warding is particularly useful for Blitzcrank. It's always easier to land your Q over a wall when you can actually see your target.

[Tergon]

I've not! I intend to give him a crack in the near future, though. Have been looking at new champions to buy and he's high on the list.

[Tergon]

I apologise for the double post, but just responding here...


As someone else said, don't go for lich bane if you don't have any other sources of AP.

Blitz does like mana, but if you have extra cash in lane that's not going to wards or GP/5s, consider getting catalyst. I'd say that, aside from the essential gp5s, your Blitz core is Bveil, frozen heart, and Triforce (zeal being the least important component). And wards, I guess.
Hmm. Honestly, I think I've been overlooking the Gold-per-second items, but the more I think about it the more I think I'm a bit of an idiot for doing so. And I suppose you and the others who spoke earlier are right about Lich Bane not really being worth it. I got it more for the "Double damage after ability" bonus, and the boost to movement speed, but still. You can speed up in other ways, and considering that I'm not building Blitz as a fighter, double no damage is still no damage. Perhaps some gold-boosters would fill that useless niche and help me get pricier gear. Duly noted!


Some tactical things I learned from my time playing Blitz:
Blitz is good at sieges, especially when you and your team are up against the wall of the enemy base, right outside the inhibitor turret. Throw your Q over the wall (ward beforehand, if possible) and if you hit, you've probably created an easy focus target for your team.

A similar principle applies at Baron and Dragon (depending on whether you're blue or purple team); set your wards in places you expect the enemy will camp if they're trying to steal, and if they show up, give them a surprise robot hug from across the wall.Heh, this one I know. More through luck than skill, even with wards, but there's nothing more hilarious than pulling an enemy through a wall. I especially love yanking Blue or Red out from under their noses, or better yet, yanking them away from getting the buff.


In lane, you don't necessarily have to use your Q to start trades. Run up to them and E, then use your Q to pull them back in when they try to run. I still use it when I've got a clear shot, but it's not my default initiator. Like Amumu's Bandage Toss, I use it when I need to stop someone escaping, or to tug in a ranged attacker who's bothering me. Mostly dragging someone to me for an initiation is saved for when I'm under a tower or have at least one DPS teammate within range.


If you're playing draft mode, don't pick Blitz against Alistar.Duly noted! I made that mistake only once, though to be fair it wasn't draft, I was just laning against him. Turns out that playing a champion whose main advantage is pulling someone close is a bad move when fighting a champion whose main advantage is getting close to you. Who'd have thought?


And in case you couldn't tell from the rest of the post, warding is particularly useful for Blitzcrank. It's always easier to land your Q over a wall when you can actually see your target.Well hell, who isn't that true for? :P But I do see your point. Definitely will prioritise wards.

Thanks for the tips, all in all. I hope I put 'em to good use!

[Eldariel]

What's people's thoughts on Blitzcrank?

I tend to play him as an offensive support - yanking in champs, disabling them, disrupting channels, but getting very few kills. It seems to work, but it also means that I end up not being much of a threat by myself late-game.

My usual build for him is Manamune, Mercury Treads, Lich Bane and Frozen Heart, with the other two items being defensive or offensive as the game calls for.

I do okay with him, and he's fun, but I always want to do better. Any tips from those who play him often, build suggestions, or non-obvious playing strategies?

I like the Trinity/Glacial/Banshee/Mercs build on him. Makes you obscenely tanky while not forgetting about the damage.


Ahh those are words of wisdom! Waiting to intercept is such a bright idea!

Why didn't I think of that???

Looking at it, I can see the benefits of maxing Tantrum first. I'm looking at maxing Q though - this lowers the CD on it and provides a lot of damage. Of course this primarily helps for ganking but I normally like playing with friends so we can communicate ganks better.

I thought about it and I thought about making an Aegis or Abyssal over a Sunfire Cape. Is this a good idea?

Abyssal/Sunfire, Rylai/Abyssal/Zhonya, etc. are all viable builds. Generally he builds fairly high damage tho. I personally get a later Shurelya's on him to make the initiations more brutal while also offering CDR and Health; generally my superlategame build on him is Shure/Rylai/Abyssal/Zhonya/Hat/Mercs (Hat can be Void if situation makes this a good idea also). Tanky enough and hurts like a ton of bricks.

[Terribad]

I read a mention that Supporsticks is best sticks. I tried it a couple of times but doesn't really seem to work out very well. Here's my build:


Armor Reds
G/10 Yellows
MR Blues
G/10 Quints

Masteries: 1/6/23
Skill Order: QEWQQR, R>Q>E>W
Summoners: Exhaust, Flash

Harass with Dark Wind, Drain when low health, Q to peel. R during ganks where applicable.


Any supportsticks tips appreciated.

[Eldariel]

I read a mention that Supporsticks is best sticks. I tried it a couple of times but doesn't really seem to work out very well. Here's my build:


Armor Reds
G/10 Yellows
MR Blues
G/10 Quints

Masteries: 1/6/23
Skill Order: QEWQQR, R>Q>E>W
Summoners: Exhaust, Flash

Harass with Dark Wind, Drain when low health, Q to peel. R during ganks where applicable.


Any supportsticks tips appreciated.

Max Dark Wind first. Spam it for harass. Might also warrant more aggressive rune/mastery setup (16/0/14 with mebbe AP Quints or so).

[Dallas-Dakota]

Actually it is very good harass, but it also has the downside of pushing up your lane.(unless they're not standing near minions but ok, you're in lane). I would actually max fear first and letting your AD carry take advantage to harass easily with how long that fear actually is.

[Eldariel]

Actually it is very good harass, but it also has the downside of pushing up your lane.(unless they're not standing near minions but ok, you're in lane). I would actually max fear first and letting your AD carry take advantage to harass easily with how long that fear actually is.

But...pushing your lane, oh noes? Many lanes autopush; it's hardly a real issue early game. Cait/Trist/Graves/etc. autopush much harder than any support will and they're still very strong. Pushing to tower to deny some creeps and make the lane push back can be extremely viable provided the river is warded properly far enough away.

[PersonMan]

Gankplank is severely hit-or-miss with me so far.

I also accidentally steal blue with my passive about 75% of the time I want to give it to mid.

[mrcarter11]

Hello LoL players. I just wanted to drop in and ask some questions if everyone doesn't mind. So I'm thinking of downloading the game, but due to internet troubles, downloading it means downloading elsewhere and then moving it to My computer via USB. So before that trouble, I wanted to ask some stuff.

1. I believe the game is free to download, but I was wondering if they released extra content for it? And if so, do you have to pay for the extra content? Lastly is the content worth getting or in some games due to power creep, is the content needed to keep up with the other players?

2. How hard is the game to learn. I'm not overly familiar with RTS type games and My only experience with them is the Age of Empires franchise if anyone is familiar with it. I've looked through some of the posts and it appears the item management is possibly the most complex part :smallbiggrin:.

3. Is it common to find friendly players or at least not overly hostile ones? I guess though gitp has a bit of a group in the game anyways, so I could likely find players from here.

4. This is probably a rather stupid question but does LoL carry it's own chat server, I mean just in text. I don't have a mic or anything like that for My pc.

Thanks to anyone who bothers to answer I appreciate it.

[fred dref]

Riot is pretty good about buffing old champions or just outright remaking them to deal with power creep. Mobility is the main area where newer champions tend to have an advantage, though.

I find the game has a small amount of mechanical difficulty, then a lot of learning champions and items, then some decision making, then refining everything. Once you have the basic mechanics down, a lot of stuff is champion specific mechanics or general game knowledge.

LoL does have built-in text chat, both in and out of game. Even without a mic, I advise hopping onto Mumble. There is text chat there, and you'll at least be able to hear people, even if they cannot hear you.

[Godskook]

1. I believe the game is free to download, but I was wondering if they released extra content for it? And if so, do you have to pay for the extra content? Lastly is the content worth getting or in some games due to power creep, is the content needed to keep up with the other players?

There's no such thing as pay-only power-creep in League. The only two reasons to pay for anything in this game is to speed up your collection of stuff you get anyway, or to get cosmetic bonus features.


2. How hard is the game to learn. I'm not overly familiar with RTS type games and My only experience with them is the Age of Empires franchise if anyone is familiar with it. I've looked through some of the posts and it appears the item management is possibly the most complex part :smallbiggrin:.

Its not an RTS, but is based off one. Basic gameplay should be rather easy to pick up, but it takes a while to get the instincts required for pvp play.


3. Is it common to find friendly players or at least not overly hostile ones? I guess though gitp has a bit of a group in the game anyways, so I could likely find players from here.

The nature of the game inherently thrusts random members of the community together, and you get what you get. The GitP community is nice, but you're going to find ragers in league.


4. This is probably a rather stupid question but does LoL carry it's own chat server, I mean just in text. I don't have a mic or anything like that for My pc.

Yeah, it does, but the more invested into pvp play you get, the more you're going to want a mic.

[Douglas]

Hmm. Honestly, I think I've been overlooking the Gold-per-second items, but the more I think about it the more I think I'm a bit of an idiot for doing so. And I suppose you and the others who spoke earlier are right about Lich Bane not really being worth it. I got it more for the "Double damage after ability" bonus, and the boost to movement speed, but still. You can speed up in other ways, and considering that I'm not building Blitz as a fighter, double no damage is still no damage. Perhaps some gold-boosters would fill that useless niche and help me get pricier gear. Duly noted!
It appears you missed the point of the recommendations against Lich Bane by not understanding how the item actually works. It does not give double damage after an ability. It gives +AP damage after an ability. If you have tons of AP, this is huge. If you have nothing but Lich Bane's own AP, this is really small. Thus, you should only buy Lich Bane in builds with lots of AP, and not early in the build.

Sheen, one of the items that combines into Lich Bane, does give double damage after an ability exactly as you stated. That bonus gets changed when you upgrade into the final product, however.

[mrcarter11]

I'm terrible with quotes, so I'll just respond back.

1. So you can unlock all the champions at some point without paying?

2. Eh, I'd be adverse to PvP until I had a handle on the game anyways, but I'm glad to know it is at least learn able.

3. I'm unsure from your wording, but I'm assuming you can create a party for lack of better word to play with at any time, instead of playing with randoms?

4. True, but I believe mics are expensive, unless webcam mics work and then I'm already set.

[sonofzeal]

I'm terrible with quotes, so I'll just respond back.

1. So you can unlock all the champions at some point without paying?

2. Eh, I'd be adverse to PvP until I had a handle on the game anyways, but I'm glad to know it is at least learn able.

3. I'm unsure from your wording, but I'm assuming you can create a party for lack of better word to play with at any time, instead of playing with randoms?

4. True, but I believe mics are expensive, unless webcam mics work and then I'm already set.
1) There are.... a LOT of champions. There's really no need to own them all, and it would take way too much time/money to unlock them all. But yes, every champion can be unlocked without paying. Anything that actually gives you an advantage relative to your level/rank can be acquired without spending real money, and the stuff that most directly affects your performance (runes) can't be bought with real money. Assuming champions are roughly balanced, which is sorta-mostly true, there's no way in which real money gives you an edge. It can, however, help your champion look cooler, for what that's worth.

2) LoL is a PvP game at its heart. The Co-Op mode is mostly just a PvP simulator. Practicing there first is generally a good idea, but I wouldn't recommend the game as a whole unless you're interested in transitioning to that PvP content.

3) You can group with friends, yes.

4) Webcam mics should be fine. Try it and see?

[Mephit]

1. I believe the game is free to download, but I was wondering if they released extra content for it? And if so, do you have to pay for the extra content? Lastly is the content worth getting or in some games due to power creep, is the content needed to keep up with the other players?

The game is free to play, and you can unlock more characters as you play more. (every game awards you with points that can unlock content)
It's not necessary to unlock every character in the game, though, so it takes a while to unlock one of the newer, pricier champions. If you want to unlock that content quicker, you can purchase it with credit you pay for.

Buying new content is not at all necessary to keep up with the rest of the players, riot patches to game to keep the playing field level. It's almost impossible to keep a game this complex evenly balanced, Riot does a good job and is sometimes used as an example in talks about game balance on how to do it.

If you like playing the game, I'd say it's unlikely that you'll get shafted for putting money into it.


2. How hard is the game to learn. I'm not overly familiar with RTS type games and My only experience with them is the Age of Empires franchise if anyone is familiar with it. I've looked through some of the posts and it appears the item management is possibly the most complex part :smallbiggrin:.

It's easy to learn, hard to master. League is probably one of the most accesible game in its genre (the MOBAs), but the mechanical, tactical and strategical skill cap is extremely high.

There's a lot of guides available on the net to help you figure out things and that can help you find your way a bit. The item choices look complex, but every guide comes with a suggested build that, while not always optimal in every situation, will give a pretty good build to play with and you'll start to figure out why those items are suggested and you can try things yourself from there on out.



3. I'm unsure from your wording, but I'm assuming you can create a party for lack of better word to play with at any time, instead of playing with randoms?

Yes, there's 'Solo queue' where you get matched up with random people of your own skill level, and 'Premade', where you enter queue with any number of friends and you'll probably get paired up with another premade group.

[Penguinizer]

I'm terrible with quotes, so I'll just respond back.

1. So you can unlock all the champions at some point without paying?

2. Eh, I'd be adverse to PvP until I had a handle on the game anyways, but I'm glad to know it is at least learn able.

3. I'm unsure from your wording, but I'm assuming you can create a party for lack of better word to play with at any time, instead of playing with randoms?

4. True, but I believe mics are expensive, unless webcam mics work and then I'm already set.

1: Yes, you can unlock all the champions and runes and such you need with ingame points. However, it'll take a really long time.

2: I wouldn't recommend playing too many bot games. They can teach some really bad habits. I'd play them until you have the basics down and then join the mumble server where people can give you some better advice.

3: Yes, you can que as a party.

4: You should be able to find a relatively inexpensive headset with a microphone that doesn't cost too much. I'd recommend checking Amazon/Newegg/such for ones with good reviews that are in your price range.

[sonofzeal]

Unlocking all champions...

I found an analysis which put it at 10 games a day for 22 months, or the better part of two years. Or, if you're willing to spend real money, you can drop that to two games a day and $20 a month, for those same 22 months ($440 total). If you want to do it just with money it's closer to $600.

...but since it's generally better to master a few rather than dabble in many, and there's a rotation of 10 free champions a week to let you try out everyone, there isn't really any point to unlocking everyone.

[Mephit]

God, I suck at Urgot. I thought I'd try him out since I had to 1v2 a lane, lost really bad, then tried him in a duo lane and still lost lane.

Were the nerfs to him really that bad or am I just doing something wrong? He was always such a lane bully, but now I couldn't even push Vayne out of lane at all. Vayne, of all champions.

[Psyborg]

...couldn't even push Vayne out of lane at all. Vayne, of all champions.

And now my favorite and most-played champion ever is being used as an example of a pathetically useless laner. *weeps* CURSE YOU MORELLO! CURSE YOU!

[Mephit]

Well, she's still a strong ad, but weak early game and really strong hypercarry lategame is supposed to be her thing.

[Eldariel]

Unlocking all champions...

I found an analysis which put it at 10 games a day for 22 months, or the better part of two years. Or, if you're willing to spend real money, you can drop that to two games a day and $20 a month, for those same 22 months ($440 total). If you want to do it just with money it's closer to $600.

...but since it's generally better to master a few rather than dabble in many, and there's a rotation of 10 free champions a week to let you try out everyone, there isn't really any point to unlocking everyone.

Competitive players will generally want to do so because different champs are strong in different patches, and in draft pick you can only give champs you own to other players so for optimal team composition options, you need to own all.

Also, it's just fun to randomly play whatever every now and then. I'm going for all champs just for the hell of it.


Did you account for Wins of the Day, btw? The 150 is a fairly substantial bonus. Also IP Boosts and all that. And a new 6300 champ every 3 weeks.

[sonofzeal]

Competitive players will generally want to do so because different champs are strong in different patches, and in draft pick you can only give champs you own to other players so for optimal team composition options, you need to own all.

Also, it's just fun to randomly play whatever every now and then. I'm going for all champs just for the hell of it.
That makes sense about draft pick. Still, until that point I think the weekly rotation takes a lot of the point out of trying to get them all except to satisfy that collector's urge. Which is hardly insubstantial, as Pokemon proved....



Did you account for Wins of the Day, btw? The 150 is a fairly substantial bonus. Also IP Boosts and all that. And a new 6300 champ every 3 weeks.
The numbers I was looking at included all that, yes. Well, except IP Boosts. But they assumed that every month will see two new 6300-IP champions, and that the hypothetical player will pick up that Win-of-the-Day bonus through a quick Co-op if they don't win normally.

[Penguinizer]

Per win IP boosts are not worth it unless you are using them to get runes. If you use them for champions you're paying more of the boosts than what it'd take you to just buy the champion.

But yeah, overall, it's unfeasible to not use money if you want to have any sort of decent pool to pick from. For a company that claims to be all about esports their game doesn't reflect that in the least.

[Draken]

But yeah, overall, it's unfeasible to not use money if you want to have any sort of decent pool to pick from. For a company that claims to be all about esports their game doesn't reflect that in the least.

That is a very odd statement to make. In every sport, people need to spend money on their training, on the best equipment, on everything, and not every sport has standardised gear. Compare league to equestrianism. Champions are your horses, runes are your saddles, whips and that little helmet.

Riot is doing their level best to keep the playing field even through all the options given. The fact that you need to spend money to get champions faster is hardly against the spirit of sports. Heck, sports teams themselves buy (hire may be the more appropriate term, but buy is the term the teams and the fanbase use, far as I am aware) the best players they can.

[tyckspoon]

That makes sense about draft pick. Still, until that point I think the weekly rotation takes a lot of the point out of trying to get them all except to satisfy that collector's urge. Which is hardly insubstantial, as Pokemon proved....


Except the free week rotation generally consists of 8 of the older and cheap champs and only 2 of the newer ones (and half the time one of those champs is the previous patches' new champ.) It doesn't take very long to acquire all of the regular rotation that you're interested in, and once you own those the free week rotation is actually very, very slow about showing you more exotic champs.

[sonofzeal]

And there's still the fact that you really don't need to unlock that many to play at most levels of the game, and by the time you're playing at the highest levels you've probably played thousands of games and have enough IP to have unlocked a solid majority of that content already.

[Temotei]

Sheen, one of the items that combines into Lich Bane, does give double damage after an ability exactly as you stated. That bonus gets changed when you upgrade into the final product, however.

I'm pretty sure it just adds your base AD to the attack.

[Qwertystop]

I'll bow to you on what works best for a jungler. I admit freely that I much prefer to lane with Amumu and play him as a tank rather than build AP - I'm happy to disrupt, slow, and peel the enemy while the nukers, burst mages, and physical DPS champs mop up whatever's left of their HP. My build focuses more on CC and survivability, which you're right, is probably not optimal for a jungler.

As a tank, though, it truly does work. People tend to forget that Rylai's and Sunfire Cape give a hefty HP boost each. Stacking on a FoN means you'll regenerate health incredibly quickly, and with the Mercury Treads as boots you can shrug off magical attacks pretty easily. With the Frozen Heart to slow incoming attacks and boost your armour, you're much harder to take down, and you of course have quicker cooldowns and more mana to keep up ability spam. The sixth item slot is perfect for a Warmog's if you can afford it, and if you think you'll be able to charge it up before the game ends. If not, get a Thornmail to use that hefty health pool and regeneration against their AD attackers. If they have none, swap it over for a Banshee's Veil, or even get that Abyssal Scepter you were talking about. The damage is intimidating, you're damn near unnkillable, and the simple fact is that you end up killing the enemy team by virtue of the fact that you yourself are not dying.

Sub-optimal, lower killscores, a less perfect ganking machine... maybe. But it's still terrifyingly effective!

So, your Mumu playstyle sounds interesting. What's your build and masteries and stuff?

[Duos]

Although Sheen only adds your base damage to your attack, what other AD items will you have built on Blitzcrank? Probably none; the most you'll really ever get is the Phage that will later be combined into a Trinity Force, at which point the Sheen proc becomes 150% of your base damage instead of 100%, so it'll probably be more than double damage anyways, considering how little actual bonus AD you have.

Also, a point of note is that Power Fist will double the damage the Sheen proc does, so that's the best time to apply it.

[Neoseanster]

Also, a point of note is that Power Fist will double the damage the Sheen proc does, so that's the best time to apply it.

I thought bonuses like that stacked additively rather than multiplicatively: base damage = 100%, power fist = +100% damage, sheen = +100% damage, base damage+power fist+sheen = 300% damage.

[Mephit]

I thought bonuses like that stacked additively rather than multiplicatively: base damage = 100%, power fist = +100% damage, sheen = +100% damage, base damage+power fist+sheen = 300% damage.

Not all abilities work like that, but this one does, from my experience. Quadruple damage on e would definitely be something.

[Eldariel]

Not all abilities work like that, but this one does, from my experience. Quadruple damage on e would definitely be something.

It's worked both ways I believe, but for the last god-knows-how-long it's been additive. It actually used to be able to crit at one point IIRC; DPS Blitz was definitely a thing (also 10 sec silence on ult but beta, lol).

[fred dref]

Triforce procced Infinity Edge crit Power Fist. Terrifying.

EDIT: I think it was able to crit as recently as around when I joined, which was either Vlad, MF or Sona, whichever is the oldest. I can't check myself, blocked at work (although this isn't, for some reason).

[Duos]

After doing some fact checking, I can confirm Power Fist is indeed additive. That'll teach me to play Blitz more often; I remember it being multiplicative the last time I played him heavily.

[ex cathedra]

It's worked both ways I believe, but for the last god-knows-how-long it's been additive. It actually used to be able to crit at one point IIRC; DPS Blitz was definitely a thing (also 10 sec silence on ult but beta, lol).

It can still crit, it's just that the bonus damage remains unaffected by your crit.

Still, IE+TF Power Fist crits reliably hit for more than 1000 damage without any other items.

[Eldariel]

It can still crit, it's just that the bonus damage remains unaffected by your crit.

Still, IE+TF Power Fist crits reliably hit for more than 1000 damage without any other items.

Yeah, true, but it's not Parrrley :smalltongue:

[TechnOkami]

Well, she's still a strong ad, but weak early game and really strong hypercarry lategame is supposed to be her thing.

Is she really that strong of a pick though? I mean, the only time I legitimately remember having problems with a Vayne is when I was laning against her and her Soraka support as Tryndamere. Just last night, I played a game as Jungle Skarner, and ate her face whenever she showed up in a team fight.

Oh Skarner, why are you so good? :smallbiggrin:

[Temotei]

Is she really that strong of a pick though? I mean, the only time I legitimately remember having problems with a Vayne is when I was laning against her and her Soraka support as Tryndamere. Just last night, I played a game as Jungle Skarner, and ate her face whenever she showed up in a team fight.

Oh Skarner, why are you so good? :smallbiggrin:

Against less mobile tops, she's really good there.

[Mephit]

The biggest problem with Vayne is how squishy she is, combined with her really low range. She's basically a very skill intensive champion that you need really good micro for to play properly. Doublelift plays a really mean Vayne.

But there's not much that deals more consistant dps than a farmed Vayne. You really don't want to see her fed.

Edit: That being said, I haven't seen her being picked that much lately in tournament games, so maybe she's not that great anymore in the current meta.

[MCerberus]

Someone just told me Nunu counters Anivia midlane.

[Eldariel]

The biggest problem with Vayne is how squishy she is, combined with her really low range. She's basically a very skill intensive champion that you need really good micro for to play properly. Doublelift plays a really mean Vayne.

But there's not much that deals more consistant dps than a farmed Vayne. You really don't want to see her fed.

Edit: That being said, I haven't seen her being picked that much lately in tournament games, so maybe she's not that great anymore in the current meta.

You have to play her near her skill ceiling for her to truly shine. She, more than any AD carry, is about every single movement you make, perfect Tumble-placement combined with the Final Hour stealth buff & setting up wall Condemns.

She's a bit like Rumble; you want to stay quite close without ever actually taking hits. Only, her tools are extremely potent but very hard to use to their maximum potential.


So yeah, Vayne's skill cap has always been high but now the skill level needed to outperform other ADs (played at the same skill level with her) has, with all the nerfs, gotten really damn high (especially since she's one of the most speed-dependent champions and like Ashe, has eaten up massive base speed and PD speed nerfs).

[Mephit]

Yeah, I hadn't considered the item nerfs. You need to take the lifesteal nerfs in account, too.

[Kairaven]

Personally, I wish I have the accuracy of intermediate bot Blitz, who is able to grab me through razor thin margins between group of minions at a split second. and if you have the misfortune to have it paired with intermediate bot Alistar? You won't even see the ground before you are dead.

[Eldariel]

Someone just told me Nunu counters Anivia midlane.

Nunu counters just about everybody early game where he gets free spells, free damage and free healing to the point where it's impossible to trade with him unless you're somebody with similar level of sustain (Fiddlesticks can abuse his lack CC for instance). That said, once wave-clearing characters get few levels he's just going to get pushed.

Anivia early on has hell of a time (I saw Froggen destroy a random Korean Anivia with Nunu) but once she hits 6, if she gets blue, Nunu is completely impotent; Anivia just Glacial Storms the minions and Nunu is stuck autoattacking minions for the rest of his life while face-tanking, while Anivia does whatever the hell she pleases.

[MCerberus]

Nunu counters just about everybody early game where he gets free spells, free damage and free healing to the point where it's impossible to trade with him unless you're somebody with similar level of sustain (Fiddlesticks can abuse his lack CC for instance). That said, once wave-clearing characters get few levels he's just going to get pushed.

Anivia early on has hell of a time (I saw Froggen destroy a random Korean Anivia with Nunu) but once she hits 6, if she gets blue, Nunu is completely impotent; Anivia just Glacial Storms the minions and Nunu is stuck autoattacking minions for the rest of his life while face-tanking, while Anivia does whatever the hell she pleases.

Did the enemy Anivia do the smart thing and build an early chalice to counter an aggressive mid? With the extra mana sustain you can just zone with stun combos and use her crazy AA range to keep even on farm until 6.

I also don't see this being any sort of a kill lane. Even behind in CS, you let an Anivia hit 6 and it's 0-0, you'll need a Ziggs or Ori to not lose the farm race while Aniv is noming on the near-instantly killed wraiths and is free to gank.

edit- I'd also like to point out that it's someone playing against their main. Froggen knows the limits, power, and zones of Anivia more than anyone in their game. Something of an advantage for him as a player more than Nunu as a champ.

[Godskook]

I wanna get the
I wanna get the
Gold on my carries
I ain't blind
Just a matter of time

Before I gank it
It's alright
Ain't no ward in his bush

Can you tell I've been jungling a lot lately?

[Eldariel]

Did the enemy Anivia do the smart thing and build an early chalice to counter an aggressive mid? With the extra mana sustain you can just zone with stun combos and use her crazy AA range to keep even on farm until 6.

I also don't see this being any sort of a kill lane. Even behind in CS, you let an Anivia hit 6 and it's 0-0, you'll need a Ziggs or Ori to not lose the farm race while Aniv is noming on the near-instantly killed wraiths and is free to gank.

edit- I'd also like to point out that it's someone playing against their main. Froggen knows the limits, power, and zones of Anivia more than anyone in their game. Something of an advantage for him as a player more than Nunu as a champ.

Silly. I never said it was representative of the match-up. Froggen would've won as Anivia as well. All I pointed out is that Nunu has a certain set of early advantages against Anivia, and indeed most laners, that he can leverage into midgame snowballing if he plays his cards well and his opponents don't know how to deal with it. And in this game, Froggen showed how to do it.

The Anivia did indeed rush Chalice but ultimately didn't matter since even if they hurt less, infinite pokes will get you eventually and Nunu's snowball scales at 1.0 AP ratio. She hit 6 too late, wasn't strong enough to fight for blue and got snowballed on; basically, Frog was strong enough to repeatedly force Anivia to base in spite of Glacial Storm, and it just snowballed from there.

[MCerberus]

Silly. I never said it was representative of the match-up. Froggen would've won as Anivia as well. All I pointed out is that Nunu has a certain set of early advantages against Anivia, and indeed most laners, that he can leverage into midgame snowballing if he plays his cards well and his opponents don't know how to deal with it.

The Anivia did indeed rush Chalice but ultimately didn't matter since even if they hurt less, infinite pokes will get you eventually and Nunu's snowball scales at 1.0 AP ratio. She hit 6 too late, wasn't strong enough to fight for blue and got snowballed on; basically, Frog was strong enough to repeatedly force Anivia to base in spite of Glacial Storm, and it just snowballed from there.

I'd like to have seen this because melee champions are hilariously easy to counter-push and deny, especially since Aniv has the tools the really screw up his last-hits. I guess I just see it as 'well Renekton snowballed and carried the team' things where yes it could happen, technically.

Speaking of the bird, I just spectated a featured game. Where Anivia was getting zoned by AD mid corki. Then didn't Q into the glacial storm to clear the lane and had to recall every other wave. *facepalm*

edit- I guess I'm still not seeing how AP Nunu can really do well against an even-match zone or push mid. Burst casters I can see, but not farm machines.

[Eldariel]

I'd like to have seen this because melee champions are hilariously easy to counter-push and deny, especially since Aniv has the tools the really screw up his last-hits. I guess I just see it as 'well Renekton snowballed and carried the team' things where yes it could happen, technically.

Speaking of the bird, I just spectated a featured game. Where Anivia was getting zoned by AD mid corki. Then didn't Q into the glacial storm to clear the lane and had to recall every other wave. *facepalm*

edit- I guess I'm still not seeing how AP Nunu can really do well against an even-match zone or push mid. Burst casters I can see, but not farm machines.

He can't do anything against farm machines. You need to snowball before the farm engines get online. Then you can just facetank everything and still trade favorably and zone the enemy from XP range/force them to base/whatever.

[candycorn]

I can say from experience, it's frustrating when Nunu practically outheals your burst and keeps on munching minions, and occasionally poking you.

[MCerberus]

He can't do anything against farm machines. You need to snowball before the farm engines get online. Then you can just facetank everything and still trade favorably and zone the enemy from XP range/force them to base/whatever.

This is true, but for the specific case early Anivia's defense kit is built to punish those approaching (and once again shout out to the under-appreciated AA range). It may warrant a level 3 rank in wall, but it can easily turn into a counter-deny.

Furthermore, it requires the aggressive pokes that are easy to bait. In relying on heals to counter burst combos, you leave yourself open to a stun/e/wall/oh hai jungler, he already used his slow.

I will give you that it can work, under specific circumstances, but I still don't see the level of shutdown required to keep Anivia, with any reliability. from her transitions, and then it's farm fest.

[fred dref]

I also don't see this being any sort of a kill lane. Even behind in CS, you let an Anivia hit 6 and it's 0-0, you'll need a Ziggs or Ori to not lose the farm race while Aniv is noming on the near-instantly killed wraiths and is free to gank.

Why would you bring up Orianna and Ziggs but not even mention Mordekaiser or Galio, two champions who are capable of literally clearing an entire minion wave in an EQ? In Galio's case, he can often instantly clear a wave from a further distance than Anivia can, plus he's faster around the map.

[MCerberus]

Why would you bring up Orianna and Ziggs, but not even mention Mordekaiser or Galio, two champions who are capable of literally clearing an entire minion wave in a QE. In Galio's case, he can often instantly clear a wave from a further distance than Anivia can, plus he's faster around the map.

The latter I just simply never see in lane or played. He's a very under-appreciated monster. Mord... Mord... Mord you can go insanely aggressive at as Anivia, no CC, no escape, and a frankly underwhelming passive as it matches against her.

The last 3 Mords I even remember seeing mid (and you don't get a lot of them)... 2 of them rage quit after effortless murder, one lane switched. That just might be the way it's played rather than potential kit differences, but I've never had an issue with metal man.

[Mutant Bunny]

The latter I just simply never see in lane or played. He's a very under-appreciated monster. Mord... Mord... Mord you can go insanely aggressive at as Anivia, no CC, no escape, and a frankly underwhelming passive as it matches against her.

The last 3 Mords I even remember seeing mid (and you don't get a lot of them)... 2 of them rage quit after effortless murder, one lane switched. That just might be the way it's played rather than potential kit differences, but I've never had an issue with metal man.

Morde needs to get into melee range to farm, which means Anivia can toss her stun combo on him. His shield won't protect him adequately. Even if he has his shield charged before Aniv starts her combo, he's going to lose his HP in large chunks.

[fred dref]

Mordekaiser is one who very much will not lost the farm war, though. Heck, even if Anivia throws the pain if you try to Q, two Es will clear it regardless. Sure, it's a bad matchup for Morde but I can't see him having an issue with Anivia pushing.

As for Galio, I might be biased because I play nothing but Galio when I play mid, but I actually notice a fair few of them around.

[ex cathedra]

Morde needs to get into melee range to farm, which means Anivia can toss her stun combo on him. His shield won't protect him adequately. Even if he has his shield charged before Aniv starts her combo, he's going to lose his HP in large chunks.

That's a ridiculous assertion, Morde's E and W have 700 and 750 range, respectively. By the time most champions have the tools to prevent Morde from farming in melee range he simply no longer needs to.

[MCerberus]

That's a ridiculous assertion, Morde's E and W have 700 and 750 range, respectively. By the time most champions have the tools to prevent Morde from farming in melee range he simply no longer needs to.

With Anivia, that's level 2. Double-damge Q + E. At level 6 you can zone him back to his tower and nom his wraiths

[toasty]

Morde needs to get into melee range to farm, which means Anivia can toss her stun combo on him. His shield won't protect him adequately. Even if he has his shield charged before Aniv starts her combo, he's going to lose his HP in large chunks.

This is false. You can clear minions using E and W, as Aether said. Furthermore, you should feel free to go and take your wraiths and the enemy wraiths every time they are up, that's kinda how morde rolls.

[fred dref]

Cerberus, do people not start boots in mid lane against you or something? How are you expecting to land consistent Qs without wall or ult against someone who can farm from 700 range?

[MCerberus]

Cerberus, do people not start boots in mid lane against you or something? How are you expecting to land consistent Qs without wall or ult against someone who can farm from 700 range?

Against Morde? Fly down his throat early. With your stun and at level 2 combo he can't answer the exchange. Essentially I treat him as an early Karthus, force him to choose between trying to pick up farms with his spells or trying to answer your movement.

If he gets early jungler support, Morde is still a terrible chaser. He's also a relatively easy gank for yours. Your goal is to keep him pinned to the mid tower, steal wraiths when you can, eat yours when you will.

Caveat, of course, is that these are the Mordes I've gone against. I'm sure better players of the champ know all the ways to keep in the game if it happens.

[Tergon]

So, your Mumu playstyle sounds interesting. What's your build and masteries and stuff?

Masteries:http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e280/Selexor/AmuMasteries.png
Runes:http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e280/Selexor/AmuRunes.png Those are Greater Marks of Insight for the Magic Penetration, Greater Seals of Replenishment for the Mana Regeneration, Greater Glyphs of Focus for the Cooldown Reduction, and Greater Quintessences of Fortitude for the Health.

I mostly play him with Ghost and Exhaust as his abilities; sometimes swap one out for Teleport, it all depends who I'm laning with, or in a draft, who I'm against.

Get Bandage Toss as your first ability, and purchase Boots with a few red potions. You won't be spamming abilities enough to need to worry too much about Mana yet, and those runes should be enough. When laning, get the occasional easy kill, but stay mobile as much as possible. The enemy will generally respect the long range stun and damage of Bandage Toss, and they'll keep their distance. When engaging enemy champs, only initiate if they're at least half-dead and your partner is in on the plan; otherwise save the bandage to stop them escaping, or if they start hurting you or your partner, use it as a stun mid-fight to disrupt their damage combo.
Bandage Toss and Despair are very important to help you farm and to hurt champions, but when laning, Tantrum is probably the most important to survive creeps plinking at you - you have all that AoE damage, and if the enemy champ gets hit all the creeps will target you. It really hurts your sustainability low-level. The damage reduction and ability spam of Tantrum will let you shrug that off while farming much easier.

When you do base, your first objective should be to get hold of a Glacial Shroud for the mana boost and cooldown reduction. It'll build into a Frozen Heart eventually, but it's not vital to get the full upgrade yet - do it later in the game, the Shroud is enough for now. After that, upgrade your boots as soon as possible; as a Tank who tends to initiate, you'll be absorbing a lot of CC, so Mercury Treads are generally the right choice here.
Build other items as gold will allow. Sunfire Cape has good defence ratings and is relatively cheap, while Rylai's Crystal Scepter is mind-bogglingly effective when combined with Despair. You'll want them both for the combination, but purchase them as you can afford, probably putting a higher priority on the scepter. Defence items are the same; if you're dying a lot, put them first, like you would with any champion.

If your partner doesn't take all the farm, then by the end of the laning phase you should have a pretty good start on your build. If you get pushed too hard, don't be upset - with Bandage Toss and your Ult, enemy champs will be nervous about pushing a tower if you're sitting under it. If they're not nervous about that, show them why they should be.
Start roaming fairly early. Wandering toward Mid is the obvious place to start, you'll get them worrying about bandages flying out of the bush and get them properly paranoid. It won't be long before you're powerful enough to start poking around the enemy jungle for kills, but mostly you'll want to stick with your teammates, more for their protection than your own. Save the ult for when it can disable multiple opponents, or for when it'll guarantee you a kill. Nothing worse than blowing that on a target who gets away.

Beyond that, just play him as you would Amumu under any other circumstances. Aim carefully with your skillshots, time your combos right, and make yourself the best grenade you can to lock down a teamfight. You'll have a blast.

[fred dref]

Sunfire Cape has good defence ratings and is relatively cheap

This stood out to me, mainly because in terms of defense Sunfire Cape is staggeringly gold-inefficient.

[Tergon]

It's got a good whack of health and armour, which is always handy. But you're not buying it for the defence, it's for the damage aura which stacks with Despair. Note that I referred to "defensive items" such as FoN, Thornmail, Banshee's, etc. seperately from Sunfire.
Early game it does actually make you a decent bit tougher, which is why I make mention of its defensive abilities (It's relatively cheap after all, so yo ucan get it early), but I have no illusions that it'll keep you alive very long.

[ex cathedra]

It's got a good whack of health and armour, which is always handy.
It's got just about as much health and armor as, you know, a chain vest and a giant's belt. All of that additional gold you pour into the combine doesn't increase your defenses by any meaningful amount. It's one of the least efficient defensive items in the game by a large margin.


Against Morde? Fly down his throat early. With your stun and at level 2 combo he can't answer the exchange. Essentially I treat him as an early Karthus, force him to choose between trying to pick up farms with his spells or trying to answer your movement.
Yes, but how do you plan on stunning him without any other form of CC? As far as I recall, even Eld (our resident Anivia aficionado) mentioned that you primarily land stuns by synching them together with your wall and your ultimate. Should Morde stand still while your ponderously slow missile moves toward him? He has at least 365 movespeed. Even if you do manage to combo him, it's not as if he's that squishy. He'll have 50 MR by that point, if not more. Each combo will end up doing ~185 damage (assuming Anivia has 10 MPen and 20 AP). He has three potions (at 150 hp each), your combo costs 130 mana, you have less than 390 base mana. Obviously, you've got auto-attacks, but I feel like you're really overestimating your solo kill-potential, or at least your ability to force him out of lane that early.


If he gets early jungler support, Morde is still a terrible chaser. He's also a relatively easy gank for yours. Your goal is to keep him pinned to the mid tower, steal wraiths when you can, eat yours when you will.

How do you expect to keep him pinned? He outpushes you pre-6, and even post-6 with infinite mana I doubt that you can out-push him. He's Mordekaiser. He doesn't need to follow up on ganks. He can just buy Revolver and Abyssal, ward up, and farm mid/wraiths as easily as anyone.

I'm not saying that Anivia doesn't have an advantage, but you seem to have a great many misconceptions about both your own damage potential and Mordekaiser's... well, just Mordekaiser in general.

[Tergon]

It's got just about as much health and armor as, you know, a chain vest and a giant's belt. All of that additional gold you pour into the combine doesn't increase your defenses by any meaningful amount. It's one of the least efficient defensive items in the game by a large margin.
No, but as I've already said a couple times, that's not the point - the damage aura is the point. The defense is just a bonus. Look, I drink the occasional martini, but I don't order them because I really like olives. That's just something nice that comes with it. Same concept here, okay?

[Math_Mage]

When you do base, your first objective should be to get hold of a Glacial Shroud for the mana boost and cooldown reduction. It'll build into a Frozen Heart eventually, but it's not vital to get the full upgrade yet - do it later in the game, the Shroud is enough for now. After that, upgrade your boots as soon as possible; as a Tank who tends to initiate, you'll be absorbing a lot of CC, so Mercury Treads are generally the right choice here.
Build other items as gold will allow. Sunfire Cape has good defence ratings and is relatively cheap, while Rylai's Crystal Scepter is mind-bogglingly effective when combined with Despair. You'll want them both for the combination, but purchase them as you can afford, probably putting a higher priority on the scepter. Defence items are the same; if you're dying a lot, put them first, like you would with any champion.

My main comment on this is that Randuin's+Abyssal seems to do more for less than Rylai's+SFC for a tanky Mummy. The defensive array is much better (90 armor, 57 MR, 350 health vs. 45 armor, 950 health); Randuin's slow is even better than Rylai's slow most of the time because of the AS debuff; the CDR is tasty; and Abyssal has the MR reduction aura, which does more damage than the Sunfire aura by virtue of multiplying your whole team's magic damage.

Consider also Shurelya's on this sort of tanky build--yes, DAT ACTIVE, but less visible is the fact that it really fills out your CDR and health efficiently. Randuin's + Shurelya's + Frozen Heart = 40% CDR, so you can dump the CDR blues and run MR or AP instead.

The other advantage of this alternate setup is it builds out of g/10 items, so you can invest in those at any time without damaging your overall build.

Treads, Shurelya's, Randuin's, Abyssal, Frozen Heart is an incredibly strong setup for a tanky AP champion, and I heartily recommend you give it a go. Work out a build order that works for you, and you should see significantly improved results.

If you're feeling experimental, a build like 3xDRing+Kage's --> Abyssal+Zhonya's+Rylai's+WotA+DFG goes more offensive while still retaining a well-rounded array of defensive stats (even working in spell vamp on top of armor, MR, and health). I'm sure others have put more work into refining AP Amumu (hence all the Azingy references)--the above is just a point of departure for exploring the possibilities. Chalice/Grail seems like another good intermediate item for Amumu, and you should consider it if your mid is already building Abyssal.

[MCerberus]

I'm not saying that Anivia doesn't have an advantage, but you seem to have a great many misconceptions about both your own damage potential and Mordekaiser's... well, just Mordekaiser in general.

Like I said this is based on experience of seeing The Huebot opposite to me. I've been able to bully pretty successfully, but it sounds like that's a case of the opponent not playing well.

In other news, was against a Swain. Mid game happened and I was 2-0-4 up 100cs. Played invulnerable murder-ball, died once after getting a god-like. Got another one before game ended. Feels good when you're on the good side of a missmatch.

I've also been having a lot of success with my defensive build. Note this hinges on me being able to stay in lane for around 1200 gold to avoid needing rings.

Pendant + 2 -> chalice + boots -> catalyst + sorcs -> RoA -> Warmog's -> Deatchap -> WotA -> Grail.

[dgnslyr]

The issue with Manfire Cape is that the combine cost pays for the unique aura and nothing else. While the aura certainly is nice, my main issue with Sunfire Cape is that it's not Frozen Heart and it's not Randuin's, both of which I'd say are more useful armor items. In a vacuum it's not bad at all, but it really does have some stiff competition as an armor item.

[Tergon]

My main comment on this is that Randuin's+Abyssal seems to do more for less than Rylai's+SFC for a tanky Mummy. The defensive array is much better (90 armor, 57 MR, 350 health vs. 45 armor, 950 health); Randuin's slow is even better than Rylai's slow most of the time because of the AS debuff; the CDR is tasty; and Abyssal has the MR reduction aura, which does more damage than the Sunfire aura by virtue of multiplying your whole team's magic damage.


That's actually a very good idea. Mostly I kept with Sunfire because that combined with Rylai's get the most out of a FoN. An Abyssal plus a Banshee's would make up the difference quite nicely. Good idea!
My build above may not be perfect but... well, I was only giving Qwerty my usual build as requested. It's by no means the only possible idea, and that's quite a good thought. I might have to give it a crack, thanks! :D

[Math_Mage]

I've also been having a lot of success with my defensive build. Note this hinges on me being able to stay in lane for around 1200 gold to avoid needing rings.

Pendant + 2 -> chalice + boots -> catalyst + sorcs -> RoA -> Warmog's -> Deatchap -> WotA -> Grail.

I would be extremely hesitant to start Meki on Anivia. Her mana issues don't really begin until level 6 with the ult; you're losing HP regen; and Anivia is slow. I know Eldariel even gets Swiftness Boots on her frequently (though obviously not as a first item), because he finds it to be her only major weakness. It's the difference between landing QE and getting out, and landing QE and taking a ton of damage in return. The problem only intensifies post-6 when you want to land RE combos. And you can make good use of Anivia's autoattack in many matchups, which means boots to get in and out of poke range and avoid minion aggro.

The other thing is I'm not sure how useful WotA is when you have Warmog's + RoA, considering that spellvamp has diminishing utility relative to your health bar as you buy more health. I'd consider a Kage's into DFG, or Zhonya's.

[MCerberus]

I would be extremely hesitant to start Meki on Anivia. Her mana issues don't really begin until level 6 with the ult; you're losing HP regen; and Anivia is slow. I know Eldariel even gets Swiftness Boots on her frequently (though obviously not as a first item), because he finds it to be her only major weakness. It's the difference between landing QE and getting out, and landing QE and taking a ton of damage in return. The problem only intensifies post-6 when you want to land RE combos. And you can make good use of Anivia's autoattack in many matchups, which means boots to get in and out of poke range and avoid minion aggro.

The other thing is I'm not sure how useful WotA is when you have Warmog's + RoA, considering that spellvamp has diminishing utility relative to your health bar as you buy more health. I'd consider a Kage's into DFG, or Zhonya's.

Yah, I don't even really think about it, I just go 'use ALL THE MANA', guess that's a habit to try and break. I do get boots all the time against ground-effect champs.

As for WotA, I really like putting it as a note in my normal build because, if we don't have the aura, the AP+Vamp is still useful. DFG, I don't really like since you're low mobility, and on an initiate whoever you stun is getting blown up. It fits into the 6th slot though, so it never gets built anyway >.>

[ex cathedra]

Well, you build neither of the two major sources of MPen-- Voidstaff or Sorc+Abyssal-- and either of those would be capable of significantly improving your damage output.

[Mutant Bunny]

The cost of a upgrading a NMM and Recurve into Wit's End is 700 gold. It gives you a max of 26 MR (about the same as another NMM, which is 400 gold), so you're paying 300 gold for just the 42 single-target damage.

Sunfire Cape's upgrade costs 800 gold for 40 damage against any enemies standing next to you (plus 20 HP, but we won't worry about that). As far as offense goes, Sunfire Cape is as about as efficient as Wit's End as long as there are at least 2 enemies in range (a range which is larger than a melee's autoattack range) and as long as Wit's End's damage is procced about once per second (it'll be more than that, I know, since Wit's End's damage multiplies along with your attack speed, where Sunfire is a flat 40/sec).

Sunfire and Wit's End don't often compete for the same slot, but I took the time to figure this out, so I'm posting it regardless of whether it ultimately proves to be relevant. So there.

[Qwertystop]

Masteries:http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e280/Selexor/AmuMasteries.png
Runes:http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e280/Selexor/AmuRunes.png Those are Greater Marks of Insight for the Magic Penetration, Greater Seals of Replenishment for the Mana Regeneration, Greater Glyphs of Focus for the Cooldown Reduction, and Greater Quintessences of Fortitude for the Health.

I mostly play him with Ghost and Exhaust as his abilities; sometimes swap one out for Teleport, it all depends who I'm laning with, or in a draft, who I'm against.

Get Bandage Toss as your first ability, and purchase Boots with a few red potions. You won't be spamming abilities enough to need to worry too much about Mana yet, and those runes should be enough. When laning, get the occasional easy kill, but stay mobile as much as possible. The enemy will generally respect the long range stun and damage of Bandage Toss, and they'll keep their distance. When engaging enemy champs, only initiate if they're at least half-dead and your partner is in on the plan; otherwise save the bandage to stop them escaping, or if they start hurting you or your partner, use it as a stun mid-fight to disrupt their damage combo.
Bandage Toss and Despair are very important to help you farm and to hurt champions, but when laning, Tantrum is probably the most important to survive creeps plinking at you - you have all that AoE damage, and if the enemy champ gets hit all the creeps will target you. It really hurts your sustainability low-level. The damage reduction and ability spam of Tantrum will let you shrug that off while farming much easier.

When you do base, your first objective should be to get hold of a Glacial Shroud for the mana boost and cooldown reduction. It'll build into a Frozen Heart eventually, but it's not vital to get the full upgrade yet - do it later in the game, the Shroud is enough for now. After that, upgrade your boots as soon as possible; as a Tank who tends to initiate, you'll be absorbing a lot of CC, so Mercury Treads are generally the right choice here.
Build other items as gold will allow. Sunfire Cape has good defence ratings and is relatively cheap, while Rylai's Crystal Scepter is mind-bogglingly effective when combined with Despair. You'll want them both for the combination, but purchase them as you can afford, probably putting a higher priority on the scepter. Defence items are the same; if you're dying a lot, put them first, like you would with any champion.

If your partner doesn't take all the farm, then by the end of the laning phase you should have a pretty good start on your build. If you get pushed too hard, don't be upset - with Bandage Toss and your Ult, enemy champs will be nervous about pushing a tower if you're sitting under it. If they're not nervous about that, show them why they should be.
Start roaming fairly early. Wandering toward Mid is the obvious place to start, you'll get them worrying about bandages flying out of the bush and get them properly paranoid. It won't be long before you're powerful enough to start poking around the enemy jungle for kills, but mostly you'll want to stick with your teammates, more for their protection than your own. Save the ult for when it can disable multiple opponents, or for when it'll guarantee you a kill. Nothing worse than blowing that on a target who gets away.

Beyond that, just play him as you would Amumu under any other circumstances. Aim carefully with your skillshots, time your combos right, and make yourself the best grenade you can to lock down a teamfight. You'll have a blast.

So he's bot, as a pressure-support? I had imagined him top...

[Tergon]

So he's bot, as a pressure-support? I had imagined him top...
He can do either, but as a CC Tank I usually let others get a decent amount of feed. Having a bruiser top to get fed from solo farming is generally a good idea, which is what usually happens.
If you want to solo top with him, go by all means. Just beware of ganks - until you've got the build up, you're vulnerable, and the AoE of your attacks can make it easily to accidentally push too far.

[Tychris1]

Hey everyone, I wanted to know the threads personal opinion on something. I recently bought a 25$ gift card and went on a spending spree but now have 1150 RP burning a hole in my pocket and I can't truly decide what to get with it. Either:
1. Bloodfury Renekton
2. Hyena Warwick
3. Surprise Party Fiddlesticks
4. Darkflame Shyvanna
5. And the upcoming Battlecast Cho'Gath (To go with my Battlecast Urgot)

They are all so cool looking and I own and love all the champions.

[ex cathedra]

They are all so cool looking and I own and love all the champions.

Definitely one of the last three. They've simply had much more work put into each of them than most of the skins in the game.

[MCerberus]

Playground premade group wins tonight :D
Hope I didn't make a jerk of myself, especially since my midgame is always rocky as voli.

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s168/murderouseagle/leagueoflegends/teamplayground.jpg
http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s168/murderouseagle/leagueoflegends/teamplayground2.jpg

Especially since 'Supportibear' involves me running straight into things to have them be hulked out upon.

[psilontech]

Finally getting around to playing this game. Downloading as we speak, should be done in about three hours. :smalltongue:

Time to see what all the hubub is about, I suppose.

[Tergon]

I'd go with Party Fiddlesticks or Battlecast Cho. They look best.

I try to get a skin for every champ I own. I figure the amount of time I spend playing League, I owe Riot at least that much! Of course, I don't have a huge list of champs yet, so it's not too difficult. Lessee here...

Amumu - Pharaoh
Annie - Little Red Riding hood
Ashe - Queen
Blitzcrank - Definitely Not Blitzcrank
Garen - Sanguine
Gragas - Gragas, Esq.
Graves - Hired Gun
Heimerdinger - Blast Zone & Piltover Customs
Ryze - Professor
Talon - Renegade
Trundle - Lil' Slugger
Twitch - Vandal
Veigar - Leprechaun
Yorick - Undertaker
Zilean - Shurima Desert

The only ones I don't have skins for are Ziggs and Zyra, because frankly I think their only available skins are, well, hideous.

[Reynard]

Well, with Zyra, they didn't bother to wait for the champ to start being forgotten about before releasing the boring fire skin.

[MCerberus]

Well, with Zyra, they didn't bother to wait for the champ to start being forgotten about before releasing the boring fire skin.

And I thought they'd release a crystal skin ASAP.
Although it looks like Varus is the next new release going by pattern to get a third...

So the 3 people who play him can rejoice!
Seriously, I see Sivir more than him.

[TechnOkami]

There's a skin waiting to be released for Darius, which is in all ways superior (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6E3O0CHUcQ) to any other skin he currently has.

I mean, Vikings man, can't beat 'em.

But in terms of skins, there are only a couple of skins I own. Several champions base skins are better than any skin they could currently get imo (Skarner, Malzahar, Mordekaiser), and other champions I can't play unless I have a different skin (Vladimir. Ugh, 'dat hair, 'dat voice, BLOODLORD FTW).

To be honest though, I kind of oopsed on some skins (I bought them with the intent that I'd play certain champions, and so far, it's only held true for Dr. Mundo). So... I've come down to realize that it's not "do I want this skin for x champion", it's "do I play x champion enough to make getting a skin worthwhile"? I'm looking forward to what Riot will do with Battlecast Skarner.

[Math_Mage]

Finally getting around to playing this game. Downloading as we speak, should be done in about three hours. :smalltongue:

Time to see what all the hubub is about, I suppose.

Welcome to the gang. Pick a champion that looks cool and learn how to play the game with that champion, and then you'll know more about what champs you want to play. Morgana, Annie, Ashe, Nasus, Singed, Xin Zhao, Garen, Sion are some of the easier champs to pick up and play.

[NineThePuma]

I like Skarner's 3rd skin. Vines and stone look awesome...

[TechnOkami]

I like Skarner's 3rd skin. Vines and stone look awesome...

I'll admit, the concept is cool, but I hate how his face looks. His regular skin is 1.) made of crystal and 2.) has a monstrous face. That, summarily, is exactly why I like it.

[Psyborg]

The biggest problem with Vayne is how squishy she is, combined with her really low range. She's basically a very skill intensive champion that you need really good micro for to play properly. Doublelift plays a really mean Vayne.

But there's not much that deals more consistant dps than a farmed Vayne. You really don't want to see her fed.

Edit: That being said, I haven't seen her being picked that much lately in tournament games, so maybe she's not that great anymore in the current meta.

Well, the current meta for bot lanes consist of exactly three champions:

1. Corki
2. Graves
3. Ezreal

All three have:

1. Burst.
2. Dash or Blink.
3. Poke.

It's getting really boring.


(You still see a very occasional Ashe from TSM, Tristana from CLG.EU, or Varus from...Dignitas? Orb? I forget who runs Varus occasionally. I haven't even seen a Doublelift Vayne pick recently.)

[Temotei]

Hey everyone, I wanted to know the threads personal opinion on something. I recently bought a 25$ gift card and went on a spending spree but now have 1150 RP burning a hole in my pocket and I can't truly decide what to get with it. Either:
1. Bloodfury Renekton
2. Hyena Warwick
3. Surprise Party Fiddlesticks
4. Darkflame Shyvanna
5. And the upcoming Battlecast Cho'Gath (To go with my Battlecast Urgot)

They are all so cool looking and I own and love all the champions.

Definitely Surprise Party Fiddlesticks or Battlecast Cho'Gath. Darkflame Shyvana is meh and the others are just mildly more fun than the original skins.

[Laudandus]

Well, the current meta for bot lanes consist of exactly three champions:

1. Corki
2. Graves
3. Ezreal

All three have:

1. Burst.
2. Dash or Blink.
3. Poke.

It's getting really boring.


(You still see a very occasional Ashe from TSM, Tristana from CLG.EU, or Varus from...Dignitas? Orb? I forget who runs Varus occasionally. I haven't even seen a Doublelift Vayne pick recently.)

You see Kog'Maw from several people as well, Miss Fortune from... Team Dynamic? Draven from Imaqtpie, and Korea likes to play Caitlyn. It's not quite -that- inflexible, but Corki/Ezreal/Graves is definitely the big three.

[Mephit]

Yeah, Kog was still picked at ECC Poland and did fairly well on average. Those other three are definitely the go-to ADs, though, mostly because they fit in a lot of teamcomps.

Riot is aware of the mobility power creep, but they're still not sure how to handle it.

[mrcarter11]

Downloaded the game, currently working My way through the starting stuff. Also downloaded Mumble, currently perplexed with it, but I hope to figure it out soon.

[sonofzeal]

How viable are Garagus, Sejuani, and Tryndamere these days?



Also... mostly out of curiosity, what would you say are the most and least effective Custom Bot teams?

List of custom bots, since I can't seem to find it anywhere on the wiki...
Annie
Ashe
Cho'Gath
Fiddlesticks
Garen
Graves
Leona
Lux
Malphite
Malzahar
Master Yi
Miss Fortune
Morgana
Nasus
Nunu
Renekton
Ryze
Shen
Syvana
Sivir
Sona
Soraka
Swain
Taric
Tristana
Trundle
Trundle
Warwick
Wukong
Xin Zhao

[TechnOkami]

How viable are Garagus, Sejuani, and Tryndamere these days?

Play Gragas like a Mage n' you're K.

Sejuani: I'm not going to answer, I'll let Darth Mario do that for me.

Tryndamere: He's veeeeeeery vulnerable early game, top is his best lane (and even there he's not good), he's pretty much a "wait until I have full items & proceed to wreck face" kind of champ.

[Recaiden]

I like Skarner's 3rd skin. Vines and stone look awesome...
Isn't his third the orange scorpion? I might have got that one, but with the blue abilities it doesn't really fit.


I'll admit, the concept is cool, but I hate how his face looks. His regular skin is 1.) made of crystal and 2.) has a monstrous face. That, summarily, is exactly why I like it.

Every time I play Base skin Skarner, though, I'm reminded that he's EVA 01. Earthrune's face is silly though.

[Ivellius]

How viable are Garagus, Sejuani, and Tryndamere these days?

Gragas is fine, but no one seems to play him. He'd probably be looked at for nerfs were he more popular--a great poking ability with an AS debuff, sustain, a dash, and a positionable knockback that does tons of damage. Oddly, I've seen him jungled a couple of times recently.

Sejuani is more or less locked into the jungle; I guess she might be able to go bottom as a disabling support. She's not bad, but her first jungle clear is dangerous. If you can get a very strong leash, you'll be okay. If not, you'll need Cloth Armor + 5 potions to keep your health up. She's probably not worth playing until you hit 30 with a full rune/mastery setup.

As others have said, Tryndamere isn't all that strong right now. He can jungle, but I'm not sure if it's safe enough to do pre-level 30. It'd probably work with the Cloth + 5 start. He gets a lengthy dash, and once he farms enough he kills champions like crazy. Mobility creep hasn't helped him, either, even though he's a pretty mobile champion. If you play him, remember that despite appearances he's actually really squishy (at least until you get tons of crit and lifesteal).

[Winthur]

How viable are Garagus, Sejuani, and Tryndamere these days?

Gragas saw play at the recent ECC Warsaw where he usually wrecked faces. He has some really good (AoE) burst damage, a repositioning ability and even mobility. All in all he's viable and not picked too often, so it's not like you have to worry about him being banned or first picked in draft mode.

Sejuani isn't popular at all despite having some really good CC (her ult in particular is easy to land, is ranged, and is AoE). It's more of a fact that it's hard to carry solo queue with her because she doesn't do quite as much damage as Amumu or doesn't lock up people quite as hard as Nautilus. TheOddOne said once that "her main problem is that when even one of her skills is on cooldown, her kit as a whole suffers a lot more than on most other champions". HotshotGG however apparently loves her and plays her at scrims and tournaments (which even warranted a Sejuani ban in some CLG.EU/CLG.NA showmatches/scrims). Make of that what you will. She's viable in my book.

Tryndamere is just outclassed by most others, he has so many people that bully him in lane and it's only his late game that really deals well with people (what with him being a melee carry). His kit is overall decent (an AoE AD reduction that functions as a slow situationally, a dash that damages, self-heal and immortality ult) but he sorta loses out in numbers. He definitely had better days.

[sonofzeal]

Thanks for the tips! I'll definitely check Gragas out, but might steer clear of Sejuani for now even though I love the concept. At least until I get up to lvl 20 range.



And any thoughts on that best/worst Custom Bot team? All-support for worst, possibly? Sona, Soraka, Lux, Leona, Shen? Or put some junglers on there, since the AI doesn't jungle?

[SlyGuyMcFly]

Gragas is fine, but no one seems to play him. He'd probably be looked at for nerfs were he more popular--a great poking ability with an AS debuff, sustain, a dash, and a positionable knockback that does tons of damage. Oddly, I've seen him jungled a couple of times recently.

Probably because he's pretty hard to play right, what with the slowish doubletap skillshot nuke, getting the most damage out of the bellyflop and knowing when you can afford to stand still for the chug. Also, his "I'm Helping!" capacity is godtier, which can make learning him discouraging.

Or that's what I've found the times I've tried to play him. And I would really, really love to play Gragas decently. :smallfrown:


And any thoughts on that best/worst Custom Bot team? All-support for worst, possibly? Sona, Soraka, Lux, Leona, Shen? Or put some junglers on there, since the AI doesn't jungle?

Worst bot team is whichever comp you can create that has the least CC, IMO. Most dangerous bots is probably something like Sona, MF, Cass, Malph and Blitz. Then again, it's hard to beat the total, utter bull**** that is Sorakabot so you'd probably want her in there someplace.

[sonofzeal]

Probably because he's pretty hard to play right, what with the slowish doubletap skillshot nuke, getting the most damage out of the bellyflop and knowing when you can afford to stand still for the chug. Also, his "I'm Helping!" capacity is godtier, which can make learning him discouraging.
What do you mean by his "I'm Helping" capacity?




Worst bot team is whichever comp you can create that has the least CC, IMO. Most dangerous bots is probably something like Sona, MF, Cass, Malph and Blitz. Then again, it's hard to beat the total, utter bull**** that is Sorakabot so you'd probably want her in there someplace.
What's so wrong with Soraka bot? And Cass and Blitz aren't available in Custom. I had to type out the list manually, since it's rather buried in the wiki. You can see it back here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13646714&postcount=212).

[NineThePuma]

Blitz is actually available.

Cass isn't though, you're right.

And it mostly has to do with the inhuman timing that soraka bot is able to get off that ult.

[Reynard]

Thanks for the tips! I'll definitely check Gragas out, but might steer clear of Sejuani for now even though I love the concept. At least until I get up to lvl 20 range.



And any thoughts on that best/worst Custom Bot team? All-support for worst, possibly? Sona, Soraka, Lux, Leona, Shen? Or put some junglers on there, since the AI doesn't jungle?

Is this for fighting the bots, or for the bot themselves?

Assuming it's the bots themselves (Since you can easily beat any given bot with any given champion) then their absolute worst is an all-melee/assassin team. YiBot, TrundleBot, GarenBot, NasusBot and WukongBot. They will run backwards and forwards, facetank towers for no raisins, engage badly and/or try to run when they should fight. And if you beat up/kill one really early (not hard) they'll never do it in sync, so any real hope they have of winning is lost.

[SlyGuyMcFly]

What's so wrong with Soraka bot? And Cass and Blitz aren't available in Custom. I had to type out the list manually, since it's rather buried in the wiki. You can see it back here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13646714&postcount=212).

Huh. Thought the Custom list would be the same as the Coop list.

As for "I'm helping!", aka helposity, aka helperituditude, it's the ability to screw your team over by using your skills badly. Trapping teammates in a Jarvan ult alongside a fed and angry Olaf, scattering the opposing team with Janna's ult while Kennen or Morgana try to catch them all in theirs, cutting off a fleeing/chasing ally with Anivia's wall, launching a near-dead enemy to safety with Alistar's headbutt, pulling a Kennen into your team with the Blitzgrab. That sort of thing.

[Reynard]

..pulling a Kennen into your team with the Blitzgrab. That sort of thing.

This is actually a really good idea, if he's pre-Hourglass and you can kill him fast enough.

[Ivellius]

Huh. Thought the Custom list would be the same as the Coop list.

As for "I'm helping!", aka helposity, aka helperituditude, it's the ability to screw your team over by using your skills badly. Trapping teammates in a Jarvan ult alongside a fed and angry Olaf, scattering the opposing team with Janna's ult while Kennen or Morgana try to catch them all in theirs, cutting off a fleeing/chasing ally with Anivia's wall, launching a near-dead enemy to safety with Alistar's headbutt, pulling a Kennen into your team with the Blitzgrab. That sort of thing.

Yeah, I just got out of a game where, in the final teamfight, our Gragas landed their AP Malphite right next to squishy little Tristana-me.

I'm not even sure who I would put for the worst computer team. I barely pay attention to them anymore; I just play them for my FWotD.

Playground, convince me which champion should be my next buy. I'm currently thinking Darius, Skarner, or Hecarim.

[LordShotGun]

Yeah, I just got out of a game where, in the final teamfight, our Gragas landed their AP Malphite right next to squishy little Tristana-me.

I'm not even sure who I would put for the worst computer team. I barely pay attention to them anymore; I just play them for my FWotD.

Playground, convince me which champion should be my next buy. I'm currently thinking Darius, Skarner, or Hecarim.

Not skarner. His only place is in the jungle and then only with a manaless mid. His mana costs are still crippling.

[PersonMan]

So, after another game I snowballed/carried in (due to an early double kill thanks to hitting level 6 just in time to survive) as Malz, I think I'm getting the whole carry mindset more.

At some point, someone said that thinking 'I will carry this game' beforehand can help. Well, I happened to do so (our team was...funky in pre-game chat) and then I did.

I think I'll try doing this more often, it's tons of fun.

[mrcarter11]

Anyone interested in playing with a rather new player like Myself? I'm online and got nothing to do for a bit.

[Mephit]

What server are you on? Kind of important to know before hand. :smallsmile:

[mrcarter11]

Sorry. Um, North American.

[fred dref]

Mumble is often a great place to get a game together.

[Copacetic]

That magical moment when after stacking gp/10 items to deal with a super aggressive top lane you score a triple kill in the first teamfight. :3

Irelia is fun. Vayne like damage calculations in that;

"Do you have >4 items?"


N:Farm more
Y:Stomp unopposed.

[mrcarter11]

I downloaded Mumble but it seems a bit worthless for Me since I don't have a mic.

[fred dref]

You can type to people and people can talk to you.

EDIT: Didn't you mention that you have a webcam mic? You can set that as your microphone in Mumble.

[mrcarter11]

Probably due in part to my lack of experience with Mumble, but when I tried using it, it said I couldn't access the LoL stuff, so I was just sorta doing nothing with it.

[fred dref]

Man, who'd have thought that Galio vs. Morgana would turn into a farm fest?

Still pretty fun, since I was the Galio. At 5 she could outpush me, but once I got Chalice her wave died too fast for the minions to spend much time in Tormented Soil. Between tower taking her CS and me constantly grabbing both wraith camps, I ended up 90 CS ahead at 20 minutes. 90!

[Mtg_player_zach]

Yeah, I just got out of a game where, in the final teamfight, our Gragas landed their AP Malphite right next to squishy little Tristana-me.

I'm not even sure who I would put for the worst computer team. I barely pay attention to them anymore; I just play them for my FWotD.

Playground, convince me which champion should be my next buy. I'm currently thinking Darius, Skarner, or Hecarim.

Hecarim. He's rediculous. Very disruptive, very good sustain, decent ganks, especially with ult. Build Frozen Heart tanky. No wriggles. Max Q.



Not skarner. His only place is in the jungle and then only with a manaless mid. His mana costs are still crippling.

That's not really true. Build philo stone as first item, then some mana item. Sheen, Glacial shroud are good bets. Wit's end is good too. Make sure you are tanky. Don't build wriggles. I will yell at you. And don't use fracture, it's pretty much useless. Max Q, then shield, then take fracture when you have to.

I don't actually like skarner much though, he has some pretty awful lane matchups. Some champions he can't really gank ever. Or he has to flash ult them.

[Laudandus]

Yeah, Kog was still picked at ECC Poland and did fairly well on average. Those other three are definitely the go-to ADs, though, mostly because they fit in a lot of teamcomps.

Riot is aware of the mobility power creep, but they're still not sure how to handle it.

There are several reasons they're picked, and I'm not sure how much of it has to do with team comps so much as with bot lanes. At the moment, the strongest support is Taric, which means that bot lane is a kill lane most of the time. Picking Kog or Ashe into a kill lane is really really risky, so you want someone safe with an escape.

On the other hand, usually you want to consider running Taric or Alistar or Leona too, and Ezreal/Corki/Graves are as good with kill supports as they are against them.

The prevalence of Malphite is probably also a factor.

[Mephit]

Yeah, definitely, they just come with a lot more utility and have a much stronger laning phase.

But on what basis are you saying he's the strongest support? :smallconfused:
In my eyes he does not do all that remarkably well, and he's not particularily popular either.

[ex cathedra]

Not skarner. His only place is in the jungle and then only with a manaless mid. His mana costs are still crippling.

Yeah, I'm going to agree with Zach. Skarner's mana costs are only crippling if you play him poorly. 0/21/9, QWQWQRQE, Q>W>E. Start Regrowth+1, rush Philo + boots, pick up Glacial Shroud and Heart of Gold as soon as possible. On your first clear, spam Q and W as often as you like. After you lose blue and have Philo, stop using W in the jungle. Only use it to gank. Don't use E to jungle at all. You don't need the sustain from W and E and you clearly quickly enough with nothing but Q.

If you waste mana, you're going to run out. Duh. League is more forgiving of poor mana management than most games in the genre, but that's not an excuse to play poorly. Don't use mana that you don't need and you'll be fine.

[Qwertystop]

That's not really true. Build philo stone as first item, then some mana item. Sheen, Glacial shroud are good bets. Wit's end is good too. Make sure you are tanky. Don't build wriggles. I will yell at you. And don't use fracture, it's pretty much useless. Max Q, then shield, then take fracture when you have to.

I don't actually like skarner much though, he has some pretty awful lane matchups. Some champions he can't really gank ever. Or he has to flash ult them.

I keep my sheild and my Q equal, prioritizing Q when they're even, and it works pretty well. If I don't get shut down early from a bad gank, I basically shred whoever I decide to follow around in a 1v1, unless they're crazytankyfed.

Get a Philo Stone, a Sheen, Merc's Treads, Wit's End.

[Temotei]

the strongest support is Taric

Free buffs, a heal, and a ranged stun are good an' all, but calling him the strongest support right now is a bit of a stretch to me. He's really good (maybe deceptively so since just walking near your allies makes them better), but best is a hard term to set on any champion in any role at any time.

[ex cathedra]

Yeah, definitely, they just come with a lot more utility and have a much stronger laning phase.

But on what basis are you saying he's the strongest support? :smallconfused:
In my eyes he does not do all that remarkably well, and he's not particularily popular either.

It's probably because he has an excellent laning phase and synergy with the strongest AD carries, and bad synergy with almost no one. His scaling is dependent on his carry and he's at least useful at all stages of the game. He's also played 59.5% and 34.3% more often than the two next most popular supports, Soraka and Blitzcrank respectively. Feel free to believe that he's not particularly popular, but you should know that you're entirely wrong. (http://www.lolking.net/charts)


Free buffs, a heal, and a ranged stun are good an' all, but calling him the strongest support right now is a bit of a stretch to me. He's really good (maybe deceptively so since just walking near your allies makes them better), but best is a hard term to set on any champion in any role at any time.

Well, it's pretty easy to assert Graves+Taric is the best AD carry lane combination right now. It's obviously not unbeatable, but it's the easiest to play, scales well, sustains well, farms well, bursts well, has high kill potential, and snowballs very easily. Did I mention that it was easy? At 2000+ Elo, skill-dependent champions like Ezreal and Janna see their winrates go way up, but below that nothing really compares to how reliable Taric is as a support.

[Laudandus]

Yeah, definitely, they just come with a lot more utility and have a much stronger laning phase.

But on what basis are you saying he's the strongest support? :smallconfused:
In my eyes he does not do all that remarkably well, and he's not particularily popular either.

In this discussion, I will disregard Alistar, who I feel is underexplored as a support since he's been so flavor in the jungle and who I believe may be better than Taric with sufficient play.

His winrate is well above average. (http://www.lolking.net/champions/taric#statistics) While admittedly winrate in solo queue isn't everything, I believe that countering a majority of random strategies picked implies you counter a large number of overall strategies.

He has the strongest laning phase of any support, which is rarely disupted; he stuns you and you die, so you kind of have to stay out of stun range. His team fight is pretty solid, because stuns are really really good and his W makes him tanky enough to actually soak a fair amount of damage while buffing the entire team. His AoE damage is not insignificant.

Even if Taric isn't the best, he's certainly top tier, and the next several supports are mostly also pressure supports; Blitzcrank and Leona are very popular, and it's been a long time since I've seen Soraka vs Janna.

[Maeglin_Dubh]

Hecarim. He's rediculous. Very disruptive, very good sustain, decent ganks, especially with ult. Build Frozen Heart tanky. No wriggles. Max Q.




That's not really true. Build philo stone as first item, then some mana item. Sheen, Glacial shroud are good bets. Wit's end is good too. Make sure you are tanky. Don't build wriggles. I will yell at you. And don't use fracture, it's pretty much useless. Max Q, then shield, then take fracture when you have to.

I don't actually like skarner much though, he has some pretty awful lane matchups. Some champions he can't really gank ever. Or he has to flash ult them.

I'm a pretty big Wriggle's fan, so I'm curious to know why you advise against it for these champs, and if there's any other champs you think it's not as good for?

[Ivellius]

Wriggle's is an offensive item, and those two are defensive-oriented champions. Skarner and Hecarim are both better built tanky.

Basically, if you do a lot of attack damage and use that + lifesteal for jungle sustain, you can build Wriggle's. If you use defensive abilities and/or health regeneration to make it through the jungle, you don't. Skarner might be okay with it because he likes to attack a lot, but he's a more defensive champion, I'd say.

[MCerberus]

Malphite opinion wanted:

Philosopher's Stone, or, do you really need a third gp/5?

I really like Heart of Gold, it builds into something really nice and ups your passive. Kage's provides some early firepower. Philo helps your sustain.

My problem is that I really like rushing an early 'screw you top/bottom lane' tabi for level 4 ganks, starting cloth+5 and keeping 2-3 potions in reserve for later. Philo stone, meanwhile is best early as possible.

I like going cloth+5 -> tabi -> HoG -> Glacial -> Kage's -> Frozen -> Warden's with Abyssal sometimes getting built before I even start eying the Omen pieces that don't give me money.

So anyway, what gold items do you like to buy and when?

[ex cathedra]

I'm a pretty big Wriggle's fan, so I'm curious to know why you advise against it for these champs, and if there's any other champs you think it's not as good for?

Skarner and Hecarim (like other ability-dependent junglers such as Mundo, Maokai, and Amumu, none of whom buy Wriggles) clear with the spell damage from their Q's; the Wriggles procs aren't particularly useful and the sustain is totally unnecessary. Honestly, since the jungle remake, almost no one actually needs the amount of sustain that Wriggle's grants them.

It's 1600 gold that could be Philo Stone + Merc Treads, or Glacial Shroud, or Hexdrinker, or what-have-you. It's just not necessary.

Honestly, I buy wriggles very rarely these days. It's been nerfed and now it's almost unnecessary in the first place. If I'm going to be spending roughly that much gold on items purely for jungling, even on auto-attackers I'd rather have double Doran's blade and Heart of Gold. Lee Sin and Jax have the best claim to the item. I can't think of anyone else on which it even approaches being a must-buy.



I like going cloth+5 -> tabi -> HoG -> Glacial -> Kage's -> Frozen -> Warden's with Abyssal sometimes getting built before I even start eying the Omen pieces that don't give me money.

If you're going to buy a second or third GP10, do it before you spend 1500 gold on a Glacial Shroud. The only exception to that is Heart of Gold, and that's only because you're actually going to buy Randuin's.

Secondly, cloth+5? On Malphite? Is that really necessary? Boot+3 gives you a faster clear and stronger ganks while Regrowth+1 is much, much more efficient and allows you to buy Philo+Boots after your first back.

[Mtg_player_zach]

I'm a pretty big Wriggle's fan, so I'm curious to know why you advise against it for these champs, and if there's any other champs you think it's not as good for?

It slows down their core items far too much and isn't needed to keep up and farm the jungle. Both Hecarim and Skarner have low mana, low cooldown, AOE nukes. Wriggles just isn't necessary. Hecarim and Skarner both also benefit highly from resists and CDR. Hecarim's W and Skarner's W want resistances. Their damage is AOE and they want CDR to put out that AOE damage more often, so CDR is very good on them. For both champions a Frozen Heart is very much their first big item (unless enemy team comp is stupid, but that's one of those game by game decisions). I like Wit's end on Skarner, and Maw on Hecarim as an aside.

As for other champions that don't need wriggles, I'll give it a look, a brief look,: (In alphabetical order!) Alistair, Amumu, Cho Gath, Mundo, Fiddlesticks, Hecarim, Maokai, Nautilus, Nunu, Sejuani, Shen, Skarner, Udyr, Warwick.

There are also some that can both be argued either way for wriggles that I left out.

[MCerberus]

If you're going to buy a second or third GP10, do it before you spend 1500 gold on a Glacial Shroud. The only exception to that is Heart of Gold, and that's only because you're actually going to buy Randuin's.

Secondly, cloth+5? On Malphite? Is that really necessary? Boot+3 gives you a faster clear and stronger ganks while Regrowth+1 is much, much more efficient and allows you to buy Philo+Boots after your first back.

Flat armor yellows, no kill like overkill >.>

I guess that's the big weakness I'll need to break when I start coming up with builds. Take a good concept (Anivia can farm safely forever with mana, Malphite likes armor) and just keep running with it. I will defend the placement of Glacial Shroud though, as it seems to be at a time where people are still kinda squishy, and a combination of CDR, armor (offense and defense), and mana makes a big impact.

Although Kage's is pretty cheap so I can put it a step earlier.

(like to take a moment to apologize for my awkward asking of all these build questions, I'm just at a point where I'm decent enough to win a majority of games but wouldn't consider myself 'good')

[Mtg_player_zach]

Skarner and Hecarim (like other ability-dependent junglers such as Mundo, Maokai, and Amumu, none of whom buy Wriggles) clear with the spell damage from their Q's; the Wriggles procs aren't particularly useful and the sustain is totally unnecessary. Honestly, since the jungle remake, almost no one actually needs the amount of sustain that Wriggle's grants them.

It's 1600 gold that could be Philo Stone + Merc Treads, or Glacial Shroud, or Hexdrinker, or what-have-you. It's just not necessary.

Honestly, I buy wriggles very rarely these days. It's been nerfed and now it's almost unnecessary in the first place. If I'm going to be spending roughly that much gold on items purely for jungling, even on auto-attackers I'd rather have double Doran's blade and Heart of Gold. Lee Sin and Jax have the best claim to the item. I can't think of anyone else on which it even approaches being a must-buy.



If you're going to buy a second or third GP10, do it before you spend 1500 gold on a Glacial Shroud. The only exception to that is Heart of Gold, and that's only because you're actually going to buy Randuin's.

Secondly, cloth+5? On Malphite? Is that really necessary? Boot+3 gives you a faster clear and stronger ganks while Regrowth+1 is much, much more efficient and allows you to buy Philo+Boots after your first back.

There are still champions that like wriggles, there are a number that like it even if they don't require it.

Off the top of my head; some champions that might (but not necessarily always want to) buy wriggles are: Gangplank, Jarvan, Jax, Kayle, Lee Sin, Nocturne, Olaf, Shyvana, Trundle, Twitch, Udyr (Tiger), Xin Zhao.

I should note, that on a number of the above, it is not necessary, and that its a case by case basis. Some of them just like all the stats given - Ad, Lifesteal, Armor.

Plus, like, dat ward man, dat ward.

Jax likes those ward hops yo.