[3.5P E6] Neutering the Shade/Shadow/Dark Templates (my players VAMOOSE)

[Lonely Tylenol]

So, I have two players in my game, in which the players have mostly reached level 6, who have an affinity, in some way or other, towards the shadow. One, a Shadowcaster 6, is very control-oriented, and focused on having active control of the shadow; the other, a Rogue 3/Spellthief 1/Shadow Hand Swordsage 1/Assassin 1 (using fractional BAB rules per my permission, so as not to suck), is "untamed", and very close to being controlled himself by the shadow (his shadow is very much like Peter Pan's, except violent and malevolent). In the next few weeks, the Shadowcaster (and one other player) are leaving for college, and I'd like to prepare, for them, a send-off, with something extra to offer them when they get back in December, and again in May. :smallwink: I have the other player's figured out, but I haven't yet pinned down this one.

What I was thinking for the final adventure for these two is a climactic battle scenario with a Shade/Shadow/Dark Shadowcaster 6 (+epic), who kind of ensnares them in a pocket of the Shadow Plane (almost Shadow Duel-style, a la Yu-Gi-Oh!) for the duration of the match. Both of the two who are leaving know who she is--or will very soon. When (if) they defeat her, the defeat (or death) will fracture the pocket realm that they are in, causing the realm itself to shatter, with some aspects of the realm "sticking" to the Shadowcaster and the Rogue, who have an existing affinity to shadow.

Mechanically, what I had in mind was the both of them acquiring the Dark Creature template at first, and then building onto it as they grow stronger by overlapping the Shadow Creature and/or Shade templates on top of it. What I had in mind was that the Shadowcaster, being very in control of her shadowed nature, acquires the Dark Creature template (ToM, p. 161) and essentially trains it into Dark + Shadow Creature (LoM, p. 168) and (maybe WAY down the line) the Shade template (FRCS p. 314), layering them atop each other. The Rogue, meanwhile, has no natural control over the shadow, and thus even with training can only channel it from time to time: he acquires the Dark Creature template from this same endeavor (but likely never the Shadow Creature template), and then, if he learns to harness his own shadow power, gains the ability to channel it into becoming a Shade 1/day using the rage or frenzy mechanics.

Problem is, even with redundant effects overlapping, the three templates combined are something of a creature themselves.

Here's what you end up with, for a 6th-level character:
Dark Creature:
- +10 ft. move
- Darkvision 60 ft.
- Low-light vision
- Cold resistance 10
- Hide in Plain Sight
- +8 Hide, +6 Move Silently

Dark Creature + Shadow Creature:
- Base speed x 1.5
- Darkvision 60 ft.
- Low-light vision
- Cold resistance 11
- Hide in Plain Sight
- Shadow Blend
- +8 Hide, +6 Move Silently
One of the following:
- +2 luck bonus to saves
- Cause Fear 1/day
- DR 5/magic
- Evasion
- Fast Healing 2
- Mirror Image 1/day
- Plane Shift 1/day

Dark Creature + Shadow Creature + Shade
- Base speed x 1.5 (+20 in darkness)
- Darkvision 60 ft.
- Low-light vision
- Cold resistance 11
- Hide in Plain Sight
- Shadow Blend
- +4 deflection bonus to AC in darkness
- +2 attack and damage in darkness
- Control Light
- Fast Healing 2 in darkness
- Invisibility 1/turn
- Shadow Image 3/day
- SR 17
- +4 luck bonus to saves in darkness
- +2 CON, +2 CHA
- +8 Hide, +8 Move Silently, +4 Listen, +4 Spot in darkness
One of the following:
- +2 luck bonus to saves
- Cause Fear 1/day
- DR 5/magic
- Evasion
- Fast Healing 2
- Mirror Image 1/day

I still like the idea conceptually, but I think Shade becomes something of a break point here, so I'd like to neuter the combination.

Here's what I'm thinking thus far:
Dark Creature stays the same.

Shadow Creature needs to make a Hide check for Shadow Blend (which Hide in Plain Sight allows it to do);
Remove Plane Shift from the list of available options;
Remove the extra cold resistance (it's 1 different anyway, and the number is bothering me)

Shade increases the existing fast healing of Shadow Creature by 2 while in darkness, if the creature gained the fast healing ability of the Shadow Creature (but not otherwise);
Invisibility becomes 1/day instead of 1/turn (who thought that was a good idea?);
Shadow Image becomes 1/day instead of 3/day, unless you chose the Mirror Image special ability of the Shadow Creature, in which case that existing ability increases to 3/day;
Spell Resistance becomes 6+HD (or is stripped away entirely);
The +4 luck bonus to saves only applies if the creature took the +2 luck bonus to saves ability from Shadow Creature; these abilities overlap, so the bonus increases from +2 to +4 while in darkness

The result looks more like this:
Dark Creature:
- +10 ft. move
- Darkvision 60 ft.
- Low-light vision
- Cold resistance 10
- Hide in Plain Sight
- +8 Hide, +6 Move Silently

Dark Creature + Shadow Creature:
- Base speed x 1.5
- Darkvision 60 ft.
- Low-light vision
- Cold resistance 10
- Hide in Plain Sight
- Shadow Blend (with caveat)
- +8 Hide, +6 Move Silently
One of the following:
- +2 luck bonus to saves
- Cause Fear 1/day
- DR 5/magic
- Evasion
- Fast Healing 2
- Mirror Image 1/day

Dark Creature + Shadow Creature + Shade
- Base speed x 1.5 (+20 in darkness)
- Darkvision 60 ft.
- Low-light vision
- Cold resistance 10
- Hide in Plain Sight
- Shadow Blend (with caveat)
- +4 deflection bonus to AC in darkness
- +2 attack and damage in darkness
- Control Light
- Invisibility 1/day
- SR 12
- +2 CON, +2 CHA
- +8 Hide, +8 Move Silently, +4 Listen, +4 Spot in darkness
One of the following:
- +2 luck bonus to saves (+4 in darkness)
- Cause Fear 1/day
- DR 5/magic
- Evasion
- Fast Healing 2 (+4 in darkness)
- Mirror Image 1/day (3/day)

But this still seems like, well, a lot...

What would you suggest these characters get out of these templates, given that they're getting them for free (as in, no LA, only roleplay and time investment costs)?

[Lonely Tylenol]

BUMP; I would still like some help with this.

So that this is not a dead post, I would also like some input on homebrewing a magical item that has three unlockable abilities (scalable either by feats or rituals), akin to a legacy weapon.

What I had in mind for this Runestaff of Shadow was:
Normal, unattuned weapon: The staff allows its user to cast any of the following mysteries (each once per day) by expending an uncast mystery of the same level or higher:

Mesmerizing Shade
Thoughts of Shadow
Afraid of the Dark

In addition, the wielder of this staff can cast Black Candle at-will as a mystery user of her level.
Least ability: The wielder of this staff can channel the power of their mysteries into the staff and store it for future use. Once per day, the wielder of the staff can channel any unspent mysteries into the staff. The number of mystery levels channeled into the staff this way cannot exceed one-half of the Shadowcaster's level. Once channeled this way, the mystery levels last for 24 hours, and can be used to cast any mysteries from the staff in place of unspent mysteries during the day.
Lesser ability: The wielder gains the Dark Creature template (ToM, p. 161). If the wielder already has the Dark Creature template, they gain the Shadow Creature template (LoM, p. 168) instead. In addition, the wielder can use mystery levels channeled into the staff to cast any mystery that they know (as long as the level of the mystery is not greater than the number of mystery levels channeled into the staff).
Greater ability: The wielder gains the Shadow Creature template (LoM, p. 168). If the wielder already has the Shadow Creature template, they gain the Shade template (FRCS, p. 314) instead. In addition, the wielder gains bonus mysteries for having a high Intelligence score (use the Table 1-1: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Spells, PHB, p. 8, to determine the bonus mysteries given at each level). These bonus mysteries can be any mystery of the appropriate level that you can cast.

Thoughts? Anybody?

I've just found out that the Magus and the Shadowcaster of the group (the two members that are leaving) are, in fact, both going to the same school on another island, which is the same school that I fly to once a month for my own classes, so this is now very relevant to future sessions in my game: I will be creating sessions for them once a month, when I leave to go to their school.

[Jimlad]

Sorry about reviving a dead thread, just want to mention that this was helpful for me, who has a player who wants to play as some shadowy creature. Even though it's most likely WAY to late, I hope I can help others trying for this, or you, lonely Tylenol, for later campaigns. So here we go,

I'll base these off the second set you had, as those are already on the way to what you want, so let's see, I feel that cold resist is just odd here, I mean why is a dark creature good with cold? So let's off that, Something to make the play of this thing more fun might be to get rid of move silently, but keep the hide check. For now, I'll just drop it down to +2. Dark creature seems nicer now. Maybe drop a few more things, we'll see.
Adding on shadow, let's see, Patch it with what was changed with dark, To make it look nicer, let's pretend that they chose the "+2 luck bonus to saves" at the end. (I'm guessing that all the ones down after the "chose one of the following" are choices, right?)

Now, the big one,:smallyuk: I feel SR is a bit much and hard to play with, so...
Wait, being a shade give you bonuses to CHA?! Okay, that shall be fixed, and I feel that CON also isn't to good. I think that invisibility isn't too good... What about a different one? How about a more powerful control light? Okay, Concealing control light, it let's you change the light in an area by almost as much as you want, Only works around you, you can change the brightness around you however you want. From pitch black, to bright as the sun, to even a range of both! Bright outside, dark inside. Works in the space you are standing in, and the spaces around it. lasts for as long as you concentrate, and holding it lowers your move silently and hide by -2, but got back by however the DM feels. Still a few things left, AC bonus, let's drop the "deflecting"

So here's the finished product from me:

Dark creature
- +10 ft. move
- Darkvision 60 ft.
- Low-light vision
- Hide in Plain Sight
- +8 Hide, +2 Move Silently


Dark + shadow
- Base speed x 1.5
- Darkvision 60 ft.
- Low-light vision
- Hide in Plain Sight
- Shadow Blend (with caveat)
- +8 Hide, +2 Move Silently
- +2 luck bonus to saves


Dark Creature + Shadow Creature + Shade
- Base speed x 1.5 (+20 in darkness)
- Darkvision 60 ft.
- Low-light vision
- Hide in Plain Sight
- Shadow Blend (with caveat)
- +4 bonus to AC in darkness
- +2 attack and damage in darkness
- Control Light
- Concealing control light 3/day
- +8 Hide, +4 Move Silently, +4 Listen, +4 Spot in darkness
- +2 luck bonus to saves (+4 in darkness)

How's this? And this is to/for anyone who needs something like this. I just wanted to thank you for your help with my campaign. So I thought I might help with yours.