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View Full Version : Tippy Strategies for Roleplay



urkthegurk
2012-07-29, 09:15 AM
So I'm sitting here speculating on the next campaign I'm constructing. Over the course of the last one, the players were basically clever enough to wreck the world, taking a fairly standard DnD world and moving it a whole lot towards the Tippyverse. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=222007) A demonic invasion prompted several strategic innovation: they invented the teleportation circle strategy in response to the urgent evacuation of an underground city, they then realized its tactical implications and began to deploy it offensively. One of their NPC retainers was actually the spellcaster who invented the spell in the first place (I decided that it was particularly new, to explain why it hadn't been deployed militarily before, and they immediately went and sought out this caster and hired him), so the demons didn't have access to the tech, but they were mostly chain-gating their armies in anyway so it was fairly even. The city they chose for their defensive point is basically constructed on a huge dwarven artifact that provides spellcasting power to reinforce the traps and the force-field bubble over the city, making it nearly impregnable. Demons being demons, however, plenty of corruption had already taken place, and the players ended up fighting plenty of enemies within the city.

Now I'm looking at possible strategies that would be deployed in the wake of all this, moving the universe in a way not identical to, but similar to the Tippyverse model. The players aren't at all power-gamers, but they're very good at breaking the system and finding low-level exploits. One player uses diplomacy and a dominate-monster trap (actually a series of traps and effects including mind jar and telepathic bond). Another guy got infected by a vampire and was loosing control of his character, so he went and found an archfiend and made a deal with him for his immortal soul in exchange for retaining control after his vampire transformation was complete. So now he's a vampiric demon. Stuff like that.

What would your response be, as an administrator, to someone teleporting magic-jarred basilisks into your city centre?

How would you defend a large town located near a City? The city's population is rather low, so they could use the people in the town, but re-locating the population to the City is unfeasible.

What's the best insurance against dragons?

If you area king in the 'wild' (or what is going to become the wild) what would your response be when you see this start to take off?

Basically, I'm envisioning the continent plunging into several civil-wars-by-inches. The fact that wizards have been driven into hiding, mostly, slows the process by which they emerge and take control of the population centres.

How long would an established society of Clerics hold up against a concentrated effort by wizards to re-assert control?

Kane0
2012-07-29, 06:05 PM
Sounds like a fun campaign :smallsmile:

-Teleporting basalisks into my city:
Herd them towards nonpoulated/enemy occupied sections and/or send in expandable forces to contain or destroy them.

-Defend a town near a city, but want the population to move to city:
Provide incentive to move to nearby city, with secure routes and benefits of being in the city (secure residence, work and food)
Make token attempt to protect town, but do not pour in resources. If you lose the town, then make arrangements for the population to be safely escorted by the remainder of forces to safety of city. Either you successfully defend the town (win) or get the population to the city (also a win). The only lose is if the people die.

Good defense against dragons:
You said your city was underground? If the city is indeed underground then dragons lose a major advantage, that of flight. If they lose their mobility then they have to attack at ground level, going down the streets. Flank the dragon as much as possible in cramped conditions where it cannot turn and face all threats at once. Avoid clumping together forces to help against breath weapons and make sure to get some weapons that can attack at range to negate the nasty claws, bites wing buffets and tail slaps. Chip em down with sustained pressure where they cannot or have to retreat.

King in the Wild:
If he is observant and sees what is going to happen, he will either take steps to get in on the action (try to get a teleportation circle and some mages) or ensure his power once the tippy world forgets about his kingdom. A smart one will do both, as once he manages to get his TC up he will want to expand and consolidate power ASAP.

Clerics vs Wizards:
Hmm. thats a tough one. They are roughly equal in sheer power, so it comes down to numbers and support. The more people and followers the clerics have, the less threatened they are by wizards. If the wizards build up some support and base of power there is a definite chance of them attempting a takeover. If clerics hold the majority of power id measure it in years before the wizards gain a secure foothold. If the wizards have an ace up the sleeve or are just in a better position than the clerics, i'd say months.

Hope this helps :smallsmile:

Jallorn
2012-07-29, 06:18 PM
Teleportation circles could turn into Mutually Assured Destruction until someone develops a countermeasure (ie antiteleportation field). Of course, there would be economic repurcussions of a Teleportation cirlce as well: Merchants no longer need to traverse extremely dangerous distances to get goods where they're wanted.

urkthegurk
2012-07-29, 07:04 PM
Clerics vs Wizards:
Hmm. thats a tough one. They are roughly equal in sheer power, so it comes down to numbers and support. The more people and followers the clerics have, the less threatened they are by wizards. If the wizards build up some support and base of power there is a definite chance of them attempting a takeover. If clerics hold the majority of power id measure it in years before the wizards gain a secure foothold. If the wizards have an ace up the sleeve or are just in a better position than the clerics, i'd say months.

They have an ace in the hole in the sense that they are the ones people are hiring to create these teleportation circles. The clerics have an advantage in that they can (theoretically) create Food Traps, although they haven't started doing that. I'm waiting for PC innovation on that one, maybe with a little nudge from your truly.

The clerics also have Diplomacy as a class skill, and naturally they've all got it. So they have quite a few allies and followers, whereas the wizards have only what they can scrounge- their apprentices, minions, stuff like that.

Wizardry was also instrumental in foiling the demonic invasion though, while only a few prominent clerics played any part (and the ones who did were mostly not from major deities.) Wizards have therefore assumed a role somewhat more visible, and it was the PC actions that coaxed them out of hiding.



-Teleporting basalisks into my city:
Herd them towards nonpoulated/enemy occupied sections and/or send in expandable forces to contain or destroy them.

I thought of that. The problem is, expendable troops don't do very much against basilisks, being taken out by the gaze before they can even scratch it, so unless you're talking a wall out of turned-to-stone commoners... They don't herd very well either, since there's nothing really that scares a basilisk that can't just kill it outright. And since they've been magic jarred, they can't be tricked easily or bribed with food... I guess if you figure out what going on you could cancel the magic jar spell, but then you still have to deal with a basilisk.




-Defend a town near a city, but want the population to move to city:
Provide incentive to move to nearby city, with secure routes and benefits of being in the city (secure residence, work and food)
Make token attempt to protect town, but do not pour in resources. If you lose the town, then make arrangements for the population to be safely escorted by the remainder of forces to safety of city. Either you successfully defend the town (win) or get the population to the city (also a win). The only lose is if the people die.

This could work. The only issue is if the attackers actually want to seize the town and plunder it/enslave it/occupy it themselves. I'm thinking the best bet is to set it up as a city of its own, with a teleportation circle and everything, because then there's less worry of it falling into enemy hands. And it basically creates a small faction that is indebted to the players. Not that I'll tell them this, I just want to make sure there's a solution available that has a positive result.




Good defense against dragons:
You said your city was underground? If the city is indeed underground then dragons lose a major advantage, that of flight.

The PCs 'city' is actually a tower built in the woods that houses their monstrous minions, magical laboratory, and subjugated gnoll tribe. I'm calling it a city purely because of its status politically, and as a teleportation centre. Its not even that, since they don't keep their circle operational at all times. The underground city I was referring to was a different centre, dwarves allied to the main characters who were being overrun by demons coming up from the depths.

No, the Dragons in question are very powerful Wyrms or Great Wyrms that have lived for centuries, serve as guardians of the planet against the demonic hordes, and eventually may see the need to crush a city if it proves corrupted, or if these upstart humans prove to much of a threat to their planetary dominance. At least two of the cities maintain populations of smaller dragons for use in warfare and combat. One of the characters is essentially a specialized dragonslayer. So its bound to come up at some point.


Teleportation circles could turn into Mutually Assured Destruction until someone develops a countermeasure (ie antiteleportation field). Of course, there would be economic repurcussions of a Teleportation cirlce as well: Merchants no longer need to traverse extremely dangerous distances to get goods where they're wanted.

It would be I guess, but thats assuming everyone actually takes the opportunity to attack each other at the same time, and that they all discover and perfect the magic and strategies at the same time. They've already had to deal with things like Gate and Mass Teleport, so they've seen stuff like this before, just not on this scale. It nice to be able to mass-teleport into another's city, but if they have a garrison of troll fighters to counter you, then you might not be able to conquer it, even still. And that leaves them time to construct their own circle, so you have an advantage until they do, and they have an advantage after.

The best defense, probably, is for no-one to know where you are, making it impossible to teleport to you, but that's at best a temporary measure... I think. Maybe for small groups, ie powerful adventuring parties, it would be feasible.

Kane0
2012-07-29, 08:05 PM
They have an ace in the hole in the sense that they are the ones people are hiring to create these teleportation circles. The clerics have an advantage in that they can (theoretically) create Food Traps, although they haven't started doing that. I'm waiting for PC innovation on that one, maybe with a little nudge from your truly.

The clerics also have Diplomacy as a class skill, and naturally they've all got it. So they have quite a few allies and followers, whereas the wizards have only what they can scrounge- their apprentices, minions, stuff like that.

Wizardry was also instrumental in foiling the demonic invasion though, while only a few prominent clerics played any part (and the ones who did were mostly not from major deities.) Wizards have therefore assumed a role somewhat more visible, and it was the PC actions that coaxed them out of hiding.

So they look more or less even at this point. It might just be the players that sway this one way or the other.



I thought of that. The problem is, expendable troops don't do very much against basilisks, being taken out by the gaze before they can even scratch it, so unless you're talking a wall out of turned-to-stone commoners... They don't herd very well either, since there's nothing really that scares a basilisk that can't just kill it outright. And since they've been magic jarred, they can't be tricked easily or bribed with food... I guess if you figure out what going on you could cancel the magic jar spell, but then you still have to deal with a basilisk.


It shouldn't be too much trouble to arrange some blind expendables right? If their gaze is ineffective then their primary weapon is useless. Given that they aren't too bright either (usually) then it should be a simple matter to get rid of them one way or another.



This could work. The only issue is if the attackers actually want to seize the town and plunder it/enslave it/occupy it themselves. I'm thinking the best bet is to set it up as a city of its own, with a teleportation circle and everything, because then there's less worry of it falling into enemy hands. And it basically creates a small faction that is indebted to the players. Not that I'll tell them this, I just want to make sure there's a solution available that has a positive result.


Glad I could help :smallsmile:



The PCs 'city' is actually a tower built in the woods that houses their monstrous minions, magical laboratory, and subjugated gnoll tribe. I'm calling it a city purely because of its status politically, and as a teleportation centre. Its not even that, since they don't keep their circle operational at all times. The underground city I was referring to was a different centre, dwarves allied to the main characters who were being overrun by demons coming up from the depths.

No, the Dragons in question are very powerful Wyrms or Great Wyrms that have lived for centuries, serve as guardians of the planet against the demonic hordes, and eventually may see the need to crush a city if it proves corrupted, or if these upstart humans prove to much of a threat to their planetary dominance. At least two of the cities maintain populations of smaller dragons for use in warfare and combat. One of the characters is essentially a specialized dragonslayer. So its bound to come up at some point.


In that case a mutually beneficial arrangement might be the best course of action. Make a deal with the dragons that ensures peace, at least for long enough to get ready for the peace to end, which it will of course as the cities gain power and threaten the dragon's supremacy. Use their pride and confidence against them. And above all, be audacious :smallwink:

Yitzi
2012-07-30, 12:41 PM
What would your response be, as an administrator, to someone teleporting magic-jarred basilisks into your city centre?

If possible, trap them, make sure the jar isn't within a few hundred feet, and then kill them. Otherwise, just hope the jar isn't nearby and kill them. (If the host body is slain with the jar not in range, the caster is also killed; this point is key to dealing with magic-jar shenanigans of this sort.) Then use Soul Bind, if available, to prevent resurrection.


How would you defend a large town located near a City? The city's population is rather low, so they could use the people in the town, but re-locating the population to the City is unfeasible.

Against the same tactic? Pretty much the same method, plus use of divinations and defensive teleportation to make sure the adventurers in charge of carrying out that method can get there in time.


What's the best insurance against dragons?

Adventurers. :smallbiggrin: (No, really. Adventurers exist primarily to deal with threats such as dragons. Let it be known that there are adventurers in your territory ready to kill marauding dragons, and their sense of self-preservation should prevent the problem from even coming up.)


If you area king in the 'wild' (or what is going to become the wild) what would your response be when you see this start to take off?

Make sure that there are a substantial number of spellcasters loyal to me or my country, and have them cover strategically important points with Forbiddance or Dimensional Lock (if possible). Meanwhile, have some of my best wizards work on developing a good counter (preferably one that punishes attempts to teleport into a protected area rather than just stopping them, and is available before level 11).


How long would an established society of Clerics hold up against a concentrated effort by wizards to re-assert control?

Possibly indefinitely. Clerics do have the counters to much of the stuff wizards can do, and can usually raise more supporters (and teleportation circles aren't worth that much without the supporters to send through them.)

Also, if you are looking at the ramifications of, and responses to, widespread teleportation, consider reading the first few books of the online webcomic Schlock Mercenary. While the teleportation there is sci-fi rather than fantasy in nature, many of the concepts (including the way to keep it from going totally crazy*) can be found there.

*Make a cost-effective-to-keep-up field that disrupts incoming/outgoing teleportation.

urkthegurk
2012-07-30, 01:45 PM
*Make a cost-effective-to-keep-up field that disrupts incoming/outgoing teleportation.

Even a difficulty in teleportation, say a 25% 'miss chance', could cause widespread disruption against this as a tactic. Say a quarter of your army isn't teleporting where you want them to go, but instead is ending up stranded on rooftops, outside the walls of the town, a hundred miles away or even (very small chance, as its hard to violate those restrictions of the spell) buried inside a wall. Even better, some of the soldiers could fail to enter the portal all together, instead being ejected violently out the other end. All this could make it necessary to enter the circle very, very carefully...

A Forbiddance Living Spell could also make for a nice guardian, when it shows up unexpectedly.

Yitzi
2012-07-30, 04:11 PM
Of course, that still doesn't help against one or two high-level enemies teleporting in, although that's not really a Teleportation Circle issue.

urkthegurk
2012-07-30, 04:36 PM
No, for that you really need high-level defenders :smallwink: