Tanky - Monk looking to raise his dexterity

[Hitaro9]

Hello Giant in the playground forums. I'm currently in a campaign that is nearing epic levels. I play a very tanky monk with the sole purpose of soaking up damage, and not dieing. I'm aiming to get exceptional deflection and infinite deflection once we reach epic levels, but need some more dex. I took vow of poverty, so I am unable to raise it through magic items.

As a monk, I am very MAD. So, are there any templates that I can pick up that don't lose out on anything (excluding inteligence) and gain dex?

Any feats or prestige classes that grant dex?

I have around 3 levels to do this, and am missing 3 dex to do this. Any suggestions?

[Fouredged Sword]

The best way I can think up off hand is to ask the party wizard very nicely to cast wish 3 times on you to give you +3 inherent bonus to dex.

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

PAO could be an option.

What's your race?

[Certified]

The best way I can think up off hand is to ask the party wizard very nicely to cast wish 3 times on you to give you +3 inherent bonus to dex.

What about a Manuel of Quickness of Action?

[Rubik]

You don't really need a higher Dex to get higher AC. Your best bet is to find other defenses.

As with everything else regarding monk, two levels in swordsage would allow you to actually wear armor to boost your AC quite a lot.

Also, grab a necklace of natural weaponry (unarmed strike), from Savage Species. Enhance it as a +1 ghost touch weapon. Now you're corporeal/incorporeal as a free action at will. Immune to anything nonmagical, unseeable and utterly silent when you want to be (barring True Seeing), you can move through walls when you like, and anything that isn't abjuration or a force effect gets a 50% miss chance automatically.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Clearly some people don't read. Have you considered contracting lycanthropy? It's not normally the best option, but since you're going into epic anyway, becoming a werewolf could get you that extra dex in hybrid form, it'll also net you some DR and 2 of the three HD you need to get to your next feat.

[That_guy_there]

Clearly some people don't read. Have you considered contracting lycanthropy? It's not normally the best option, but since you're going into epic anyway, becoming a werewolf could get you that extra dex in hybrid form, it'll also net you some DR and 2 of the three HD you need to get to your next feat.

Damn, lycanthropy was going to be my suggestion!

Although, perhaps a vampire, might be more to your liking? even with that un-godly +8 LA.

Does the Manual apply tot he Vow? You don't keep it after all...

[Kelb_Panthera]

Damn, lycanthropy was going to be my suggestion!

Although, perhaps a vampire, might be more to your liking? even with that un-godly +8 LA.

Does the Manual apply tot he Vow? You don't keep it after all...

You keep it for the week you're reading it. Ultimately it's up to a DM but I think it's not RAW legal.

Saving an efreet from certain doom could earn you three wishes that you could get that inherent bonus with.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Stay in the middle of the party in marching formation, then stand around in combat with your hands folded behind your back. If an enemy attacks you, drop prone and pretend to be dead.

That's probably the best advice I can give to keep a monk from not dying. Especially one with VoP. A standard one could at least get a magic item of invisibilty or something.

Seriously, what you're doing isn't tanking, it's turtling. A high AC, high saving throw build doesn't draw attacks to it, and it can't take them even if it does. Someone who acts like that is guaranteed to drop in two rounds, assuming average attack rolls and damage. Now if you tank because monsters seem to roll low whenever they attack you? That's different. But the closest you can get to a tank in 3.5 is crowd control. Which falls under the purview of the roles "support caster" and "lockdown melee".

[gallagher]

Tattooed monk gets you a form of alter self.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Stay in the middle of the party in marching formation, then stand around in combat with your hands folded behind your back. If an enemy attacks you, drop prone and pretend to be dead.

That's probably the best advice I can give to keep a monk from not dying. Especially one with VoP. A standard one could at least get a magic item of invisibilty or something.

Seriously, what you're doing isn't tanking, it's turtling. A high AC, high saving throw build doesn't draw attacks to it, and it can't take them even if it does. Someone who acts like that is guaranteed to drop in two rounds, assuming average attack rolls and damage. Now if you tank because monsters seem to roll low whenever they attack you? That's different. But the closest you can get to a tank in 3.5 is crowd control. Which falls under the purview of the roles "support caster" and "lockdown melee".

While this could certainly be true in some games, it's obviously not in the OP's. If it were, he'd've already died and rolled up something more entertaining.

There's a spell in one of the fiendish codexes, that allows you to gain the benefits of having an item of +X enhancement bonus to Y ability without actually wearing the item. Since you wouldn't be the one casting the spell, you've committed no evil acts. Though allowing the fiend used to power the spell any controll over you would certainly render you no-longer exalted. This skirts dangerously close to outright ignoring your vow and exalted status, but it's raw legal. I wouldn't count on your DM saying yes though.

[Gavinfoxx]

Wow. Vow of Poverty monk at epic? That is... uh. Retire the character?

You took one of the weakest and most item-dependent classes in the game, added one of the weakest, most shoot-yourself-in-the-foot feats in the game... and now you are going Epic?

Yeaaaa....

DCFS all your bonus exalted feats away to actually useful feats, and then break your vow, stop being exalted, and get money worth of useful items?

But really. Retire the character for one that isn't completely crippled.

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

Come on. Read the OP before you go all crazy. He's clearly not having trouble being useful or staying alive. He wants 3 additional Dexterity to qualify for some epic feats. That's it. Saying his character isn't viable is insulting, and frankly stupid. You don't know what his game is like, or how his DM works.

Tattooed Monk is a suggestion I hadn't considered. Bellflower Tattoo might work wonders for you.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Guys, seriously, stop telling the man not to play his character anymore. It's just rude. He'll retire the character when he's good and ready.

I'm tapped out for dex boosting ideas, but if you have access to MoI you might consider picking up shape soulmeld and some of the open chakra line. You could even consider entering one of the incarnum classes or that one monk PrC in the book. Incarnum gets you items that aren't items and don't interfere with VoP.

[animewatcha]

Here is a question to the OP that can help. How long have you had vow of poverty level-wise? How many sessions have you played this character with it. If high enough amount of levels-wise and enough sessions that you have 'proven' yourself to the DM on vow of poverty. See if you can have paragon template added.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/paragonCreature.htm

[Hitaro9]

Thanks for the awesome suggestions guys. I'll probally be going with lycanthropy. Thanks for the suggestion Kelp (also thanks for defending me, kelp and quick).

As for the concerns about my character, I understand vow of poverty is pretty awful (monk especially so) but I do have the Saint template and 2 levels in Warshaper, both of which are pretty broken. It works out so that I'm pretty balanced compared to the rest of the party (at least from my point of view) doing the least amount of damage, but also being pretty much immune to damage. I tank the attacks up close, while my party (which is mostly ranged) attacks from afar. I'm pretty awesome at tanking them too, Jade. I have an armor class above 50, which means non-boss monsters only hit me on nat 20s (and I'm immune to crits.)

Paragon, if I'm not mistaken, has a level adjustment of over 10 if I'm not mistaken? I'm pretty sure my DM wouldn't want me becoming over level 30 while the rest of the party is around 19.

Tattooed monk is out. I don't have improved grapple or endurance.

I've actually never looked at Incarnum, so I'm going to have to read in to the whole soulmeld thing. I might end up doing that, depending on what it actually does (=p).

[Randomguy]

Go back in time and give yourself a tome of +3 dex before you took vop.

Other than that, wish or pao is probably your best bet.

[Gavinfoxx]

How are you capable of tanking if you deal the least amount of damage? Can't enemies just ignore you?

[Rubik]

Paragon, if I'm not mistaken, has a level adjustment of over 10 if I'm not mistaken? I'm pretty sure my DM wouldn't want me becoming over level 30 while the rest of the party is around 19. And monk means you're about 15 levels behind everyone else, efficacywise. I think you'll find you're still a bit behind, even with paragon.


I've actually never looked at Incarnum, so I'm going to have to read in to the whole soulmeld thing. I might end up doing that, depending on what it actually does (=p).It gives magic item-like class features that take up body-slots that aren't actually items, so they don't mess with VoP. There are some nice ones, but you'll need a large number of feats to get most of them to work out well, and your DM will have to homebrew (just a little -- mainly to give an epic progression) to make them scale in epic.

[Kelb_Panthera]

That's the third time this week I've been called seaweed. :smallconfused:

[Rubik]

That's the third time this week I've been called seaweed. :smallconfused:It's not easy being green.

[animewatcha]

What is book source for paragon template besides srd? I can't believe I forgot it, but I meant see if qualify for paragon template without the HD since it is monk and you have VoP.

What do you guys think? Monk that 'survives' VoP into higher levels, good for paragon without LA?

[Rubik]

What is book source for paragon template besides srd? I can't believe I forgot it, but I meant see if qualify for paragon template without the HD since it is monk and you have VoP.The Paragon Creature template is in the Epic Level Handbook. And yes, having an epic VoP monk with the Paragon Creature template is just fine (power-wise, anyway) without any extra LA, IMO, assuming anyone in the group is at all optimized and above tier 4 or so.


What do you guys think? Monk that 'survives' VoP into higher levels, good for paragon without LA?You know my vote.

[Gavinfoxx]

If you want to do Lycanthropy...

Read this:

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=4398

[Rubik]

A were-swarm-of-doves would be nice.