Surprise rounds when some combatants of both sides are aware

[danzibr]

Suppose you have an encounter, each side has 5 members (5 isn't important, just at least 2), and suppose on each side only 3/5 of the members are aware of their opponents.

Then initiative is rolled up. It would appear that we have 6 people going in the surprise round, 6 from each side.

But then suppose the person that goes first gives a shout to his or her teammates, and so, given the allies' initiatives are lower than his or hers, now 2 (or more, if the opponents make a listen check, I guess) are aware. Now are there 8 (or more) people in the surprise round?

tl;dr?
Does becoming aware during a surprise round allow you to act during that surprise round, given you became aware before your initiative?

[Ranting Fool]

Suppose you have an encounter, each side has 5 members (5 isn't important, just at least 2), and suppose on each side only 3/5 of the members are aware of their opponents.

Then initiative is rolled up. It would appear that we have 6 people going in the surprise round, 6 from each side.

But then suppose the person that goes first gives a shout to his or her teammates, and so, given the allies' initiatives are lower than his or hers, now 2 (or more, if the opponents make a listen check, I guess) are aware. Now are there 8 (or more) people in the surprise round?

tl;dr?
Does becoming aware during a surprise round allow you to act during that surprise round, given you became aware before your initiative?

As far as I know the rule follows "You are flat footed until you act" since you can't stop people being flat footed who ARE aware of the danger (because they react too slow) I've always assumed you couldn't warn people so they get to act in the suprise round.

But I'm sure a better rule knower then me shall aid you :smallbiggrin:

[That_guy_there]

^
Agreed. Additionally the SRD says:

"Determining Awareness

Sometimes all the combatants on a side are aware of their opponents, sometimes none are, and sometimes only some of them are. Sometimes a few combatants on each side are aware and the other combatants on each side are unaware.

Determining awareness may call for Listen checks, Spot checks, or other checks. "

I'd make these checks before initative is rolled, and those who score appropriately get to act in the suprise round (remaining flat footed until they act)

[Answerer]

Basically, it helps to think of all of a round's actions – that is, every participant's turn – happening near-simultaneously. Those with higher initiative begin to act slightly before others, which gives them the advantage, and of course the combat is abstracted so their entire turn plays out at once, but on some level the combatants are "actually" acting continually and simultaneously. It's only the limitations of the abstract combat system that prevents this from being apparent in the actual mechanics.

Thus, not only can you call to your surprised allies, you're assumed to have done so – that's why they can act after the surprise round without having to make any kind of perception check. But they effectively have already missed their chance to participate in the surprise round by the time anyone actually acts in the surprise round, because those actions in the surprise round are all taking place at once.

[danzibr]

Sounds nice and logical. Thanks guys!