Borderlands

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

A friend just bought be the FPS Borderlands on Steam. I'm currently waiting for it to download.

I know next to nothing about the game. Can you tell me what to expect?

[Kris Strife]

A friend just bought be the FPS Borderlands on Steam. I'm currently waiting for it to download.

I know next to nothing about the game. Can you tell me what to expect?

Fun. :smallbiggrin:

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Fun. :smallbiggrin:

I'm glad. :smallsmile:

[Kris Strife]

I'm glad. :smallsmile:

Sorry it's not more helpful, but I'm new to the game myself. :smallsmile:

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Sorry it's not more helpful, but I'm new to the game myself. :smallsmile:

Should I try the campaign or the multi-player first?

I have enough FPS experience that people won't freak out at me for sucking if I try a team battle or something, unless Borderlands has significantly differing gameplay from things like Battlefield and TF2.

[Ogremindes]

Should I try the campaign or the multi-player first?

I have enough FPS experience that people won't freak out at me for sucking if I try a team battle or something, unless Borderlands has significantly differing gameplay from things like Battlefield and TF2.

The multiplayer is the campaign. It's essentially a diablo-type game, only done as an FPS.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

The multiplayer is the campaign. It's essentially a diablo-type game, only done as an FPS.

So ... co-op campaign, no multi-player matches?

That sounds cool. What's it like?

[ZeroNumerous]

That sounds cool. What's it like?

It's Diablo, but you use guns and cars instead of swords and magic.

[Ogremindes]

It's Diablo, but you use guns and cars instead of swords and magic.

And it's a real FPS, in case that made you think about Hellgate:London.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

It's Diablo, but you use guns and cars instead of swords and magic.

Never played Diablo, or even seen much of it.

[Ogremindes]

Never played Diablo, or even seen much of it.

Diablo: Kill stuff, get loot, level up, repeat. Preferably with someone else playing co-op.

Borderland's gimmick is the loot is guns with random attributes, for the most part.

Borderlands is also kinda open world with lots of missions and things to explore.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Diablo: Kill stuff, get loot, level up, repeat. Preferably with someone else playing co-op.

Borderland's gimmick is the loot is guns with random attributes, for the most part.

Borderlands is also kinda open world with lots of missions and things to explore.

The random gun attributes sounds awesome, and I find the aesthetic nostalgic, although I can't say why.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Borderlands is in. I'll post a review soon.

[ObadiahtheSlim]

Pick one or two gun types and stick with it. You get experience in those guns and they improve (separate from your character exp). Some classes can get away with just 1 weapon type. So if you go soldier, just go with your combat rifle and you should be fine. Find a good short range one and a good accurate one with a scope for longer range combat.

[Wagadodo]

Personally I enjoy the shotgun soldier. I also enjoy the hunter both with pistols and sniper rifles. You can also come in and out of the game with another player with out worrying about your current level. You just need to worry about if you are on the same quest or eligible for the quest. So you can use your single player character to join a multiplayer game. Remember with more players you get better loot because you're fighting harder monsters.

[Lhurgyof]

A friend just bought be the FPS Borderlands on Steam. I'm currently waiting for it to download.

I know next to nothing about the game. Can you tell me what to expect?

It felt rather samey to me after a while. I rented it for the 360 and played online. The guy I was playing with gave me modded items so I couldn't die, so that might have been part of it.

There aren't many different enemies, and the quests get samey after a while.

... That being said, there's still nothing quite like running around and shot-gunning everything you see.

[houlio]

It's always fun to find a machine gun that shoots explosions. It took me awhile to get tired of that.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

I played it for a bit. I only did the single player though, since none of my friends who have it were online.

I can't tell if I like it or not. The aestheic is very nice, and it reminds me a bit of Kin-Dza-Dza (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kin-dza-dza!). The gameplay on the other hand, is lackluster. I've only played for 88 minutes, and I already find it repetitive. This means that there is a serious problem. It plays too much like a JRPG and too little like an FPS for my taste. That being said, the voice acting, music, and atmosphere are all great.

I'm going to have to try the multiplayer, but for now, I'm giving it a 6/10.

[Eledragon]

Borderlands is infinitely more fun playing multiplayer with friends over VoIP compared to singleplayer. After playing multiplayer with my friends, the only way I could play singleplayer was to listen to my favorite podcasts while playing, as the game doesn't require a large amount of attention.

[Cespenar]

It's always fun to find a machine gun that shoots explosions. It took me awhile to get tired of that.

Heh. I remember finding a SMG that fires multiple shots (like a shotgun) - at normal SMG rate! Also, the bullets were aflame. Only "downsides" were that it was incredibly inaccurate and chewed through ammo like a funny analogy.

Needless to say, it had proved useful.

[Erloas]

Yeah, the game is a lot more fun with other people. And while I preferred to play with people I know we would still usually have a spot open for randoms to join and sometimes my friends weren't around, and for the most part random players weren't bad to play with.
Of course thats only true if they are not cheating and not roughly the same level.

The game scales up in difficulty a lot with more people, you'll see a lot of upgraded creatures with 4 players that you won't see solo (at least on your first play-through), and having to save your friends adds more to the game. Along the same lines, I've found it a lot more fun when you are a little bit behind the level curve instead of being a little bit ahead of it, where things are harder to kill instead of just falling over dead without posing any sort of challenge. You end up getting ahead of the level curve if you join other people's games which are too far behind or ahead of where you are in the story line where you end up getting levels without advancing your own story line.
The DLC scales to your level... at least mostly. I'm not sure if they all scale the same, but the one at least some of them scale every 5 levels and if you do it early in the game where 5 levels is a lot and you happen to be a few under instead of a few over they can be really hard. We did that with Dr. Neds Zombie Island and every zombie became a hard fight and we had an epic 30 minute brawl with a pumpkin headed boss... and then we did it again with another set of characters and ended up a bit ahead of the curve and the same boss was a push-over and died in a few minutes and was disappointing.

Moxi's can be fun, but I probably wouldn't do it early on much, and would wait until you're done with the first play-through or you'll end up up-leveled to the campaign.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

So, because I have the Game of the Year Edition, I also have all the DLCs. However, I have yet to try any of them. What are they like?

Also, I looked a bit into Borderlands 2. Not impressed at all.

[Erloas]

So, because I have the Game of the Year Edition, I also have all the DLCs. However, I have yet to try any of them. What are they like?

Also, I looked a bit into Borderlands 2. Not impressed at all.

Of the DLC Moxxi's Underdome is basically an arena where you fight waves and waves of enemies that get progressively harder and eventually face a boss.
All the rest are basically just more story/normal quests (I assume Claptrap's is too, though I haven't actually got to play it yet). So more of the same mostly.

What didn't you like about the looks of Borderlands 2? Everything about it says its Borderlands just a bit more extreme in a few places. If you aren't impressed because you aren't really liking the first one... well then I don't know what you expect, very few sequels change drastically from the originals.

As for your original comments about the game... how is it in any way like a JRPG? A hack-n-slash RPG? Yeah, its essentially just a brawling hack-n-slash style FPS. But JRPGs (at least as I know the term to be used) are nothing at all like that. And yes, its not a traditional FPS either, but most of them are getting old in design anyway, going for realism in everything but damage just makes them feel off. Its nice to find a game that is unabashedly a game and not trying to be anything other then fun. It isn't a game where you can sit back and play sniper or hide behind a wall and pick people off, so don't try to play it like one.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Of the DLC Moxxi's Underdome is basically an arena where you fight waves and waves of enemies that get progressively harder and eventually face a boss.
All the rest are basically just more story/normal quests (I assume Claptrap's is too, though I haven't actually got to play it yet). So more of the same mostly.

What didn't you like about the looks of Borderlands 2? Everything about it says its Borderlands just a bit more extreme in a few places. If you aren't impressed because you aren't really liking the first one... well then I don't know what you expect, very few sequels change drastically from the originals.

As for your original comments about the game... how is it in any way like a JRPG? A hack-n-slash RPG? Yeah, its essentially just a brawling hack-n-slash style FPS. But JRPGs (at least as I know the term to be used) are nothing at all like that. And yes, its not a traditional FPS either, but most of them are getting old in design anyway, going for realism in everything but damage just makes them feel off. Its nice to find a game that is unabashedly a game and not trying to be anything other then fun. It isn't a game where you can sit back and play sniper or hide behind a wall and pick people off, so don't try to play it like one.

I didn't like the looks of Borderlands 2, since it will play up the aspects I don't particularly enjoy, such as the juvenile humour. It doesn't look innovative in any way, to the point where it might as well just be a large DLC for the first game.

The reason I said it plays like a JRPG is because one gets a pre-made character that they can level and customize in a pre-set story.

[Grue Bait]

So, because I have the Game of the Year Edition, I also have all the DLCs. However, I have yet to try any of them. What are they like?

Also, I looked a bit into Borderlands 2. Not impressed at all.

Hmm, let's see...

Zombie Island is Halloween-esque, and full of brain-gathering, squicky fun.

Moxxi's Underdome is pretty boring, No experience, no loot, just waves of enemies.

Knoxx's Fortress goes more in-depth on the Crimson Lance. It's my personal favorite, but it has far too much driving.

Claptrap's Revolution is pretty fun, but the novelty of blowing up Claptraps wears off kinda quick.


Also, on your thoughts if Borderlands- Everything you see as a drawback is what the game's about. It's a campy, low-humor, shoot n' loot. If you're looking for a deep, thoughtful, plot-driven epic, you're not quite in the right place.

[Psyren]

It's pretty much a 1-4 player MMO. You grind quests, get lootz, compare what you got to what you have on, clean your bags of the other junk for dough, get better lootz, grind more quests etc. All the while killing waves of palette-swapped bad guys The world has a lot of character/humor to it to help break up the monotony but it'll be easy to get bored if you're playing alone.

[Castaras]

It's a very fun game, but it's most fun when you're doing multiplayer. Means you have the scaled up mobs, lots of yelling over voice chat and a helluvalot of fun. I enjoy a little too much seeing people's heads blow up, and searching for all the tiny details in the world, so I enjoy it singleplayer more than a lot of people.


The DLC I'd say is better than the main story - especially General Knoxx's Armoury, which introduces some of the best characters in the game (Knoxx, Moxxi, Mr Shank).

If you play the DLC, go for Knoxx first, then Zombie Island, then Claptrap Revolution - Claptrap has elements from Zombie and Knoxx in it. Underdome can be played whenever, but is best once again in multiplayer. The DLC I could do single player just because of the hilarity of the stories.

[Psyren]

It's fine to do Ned first as well, especially since that was the first one released.

[Maxios]

I didn't like the looks of Borderlands 2, since it will play up the aspects I don't particularly enjoy, such as the juvenile humour. It doesn't look innovative in any way, to the point where it might as well just be a large DLC for the first game.

The reason I said it plays like a JRPG is because one gets a pre-made character that they can level and customize in a pre-set story.

By that logic Bully, and GTA SA, is a JRPG :smalltongue:

Anyway, play the DLC in the order of release: Ned, Moxxi, Knoxx, Claptrap

[Avilan the Grey]

It's Diablo, but you use guns and cars instead of swords and magic.

Also constant respawns. From what I remember mooks respawns as soon as you leave an area, period. Not when you start a new game, so you some times have to fight through the same area several times since enemies do not stay dead, unlike in Diablo.

[Dhavaer]

Also constant respawns. From what I remember mooks respawns as soon as you leave an area, period. Not when you start a new game, so you some times have to fight through the same area several times since enemies do not stay dead, unlike in Diablo.

There is a delay between respawning; going back into the Arid Hills after killing Nine-Toes the skag nest right outside the gate will still be empty if you haven't left the game.

[factotum]

Heh. I remember finding a SMG that fires multiple shots (like a shotgun) - at normal SMG rate! Also, the bullets were aflame. Only "downsides" were that it was incredibly inaccurate and chewed through ammo like a funny analogy.

Use an SMG like that with a Siren who has a classmod which offers SMG bullet regen--it's about the most fun thing you can do in the game, IMHO. :smallamused:

[Bad Situation]

My favorite gun was the The Chopper (http://borderlands.wikia.com/wiki/The_Chopper). It was never actually useful but it was fun to use in duels and against bosses.

[Demon 997]

What are good character builds for borderlands? Do you want to spread out between the skill trees or concentrate on one or two?

[Krade]

It might be a little time consuming for you, but I suggest playing each character to level 20 or so. That way you can get the feel for each character and better choose which one you want to actually play the game with.

I've played all the way through with all of them, but, in order, my favorites are:

Siren
Hunter
Soldier
Berserker

There's also multiple viable builds for each of them. The charge for respeccing is low enough that it might as well even cost anything so feel free to experiment.

[Cespenar]

Use an SMG like that with a Siren who has a classmod which offers SMG bullet regen--it's about the most fun thing you can do in the game, IMHO. :smallamused:

Yeah. I was playing a snipin' Hunter, though, and only used the gun as a panic button. Still, fun.

[Derjuin]

The only character I've really played a lot is Soldier, but it is quite fun for me. My favorite guns are the Glorious Serpens (http://borderlands.wikia.com/wiki/Serpens) and the Double Anarchy (http://borderlands.wikia.com/wiki/Anarchy); the latter manufactured by Tediore with a 4.3x scope. It's like a shotgun SMG, that you can snipe with! :smallamused:

I don't play it a whole lot now, since I've done everything in it twice over (2 playthroughs), though trying to remember how to beat Crawmerax is sometimes fun.

[ObadiahtheSlim]

I dunno, a good sniper rifle and then alternating between an Equalizer (http://borderlands.wikia.com/wiki/Equalizer)(ammo regen) and Defiler (http://borderlands.wikia.com/wiki/Defiler_%28revolver%29)has treated my hunter well. Although I think I would do better with an Unforgiven (http://borderlands.wikia.com/wiki/Unforgiven).

[MonarchAnarch]

My brother and I are combo'ing hunter/berserker. Its...frustrating. If he goes in for melee I pretty much have to follow with pistols due to his fat ass blocking shots.

I wish the scope movement wasn't so blocky, its not fluid scoping like in TF2. The sway is fine, if I move my mouse a few millimeters, my gun should follow.

Otherwise I love this game. Silly and violent. Already preordered bl2

[Psyren]

Berserker is my favorite. Brick is very, VERY hard to kill and your fists auto-scale, making gun maintenance less of a worry. Naturally, being able to get in as close as he does makes Shotguns and SMGs very handy, with Rocket Launchers and Combat Rifles being useful for long range.

I play on console, which means healing is a nightmare as there is no way to bind the medipacks (unless they fixed this?) So in the heat of combat, you pretty much rely on your active skill to heal. Brick regenerates a ton of HP from his rage even initially, and once you lower the cooldown/raise the duration enough you almost never have to worry about it being around. You move slightly faster with it up too (though not nearly as fast as Lilith's speed boost, you can at least jump.)

My classes in order:
Berserker
Siren
Soldier
Hunter

[Castaras]

I'd probably put my class favourites as:

Soldier
Brick as "NUKE EVERYTHING"
Brick as "PUNCH EVERYTHING"
Siren

Haven't played Hunter - wasn't particularly impressed by the look of him, and lag means I have issues aiming in multiplayer, which is where I play primarily.

Best game I played was me and a friend both rolling bricks, both going for weapons that increase our melee damage, and refusing to shoot anything - PUNCH EVERYTHING. Even when not in rage. Was very amusing.

[factotum]

I dunno, a good sniper rifle and then alternating between an Equalizer (http://borderlands.wikia.com/wiki/Equalizer)(ammo regen) and Defiler (http://borderlands.wikia.com/wiki/Defiler_%28revolver%29)has treated my hunter well.

I never really liked sniper rifles...they aren't significantly more accurate than revolvers, generally do about the same damage, and fire less shots before needing a reload. Once you add in the Pistol tree perk that allows shots fired by a Hunter to bypass enemy shields, Hunters just own everything!

[Douglas]

Once you add in the Pistol tree perk that allows shots fired by a Hunter to bypass enemy shields, Hunters just own everything!
Er, that's a Sniper tree perk. The "ultimate" one way at the bottom.

[ObadiahtheSlim]

I have found that sniper rifles have the best bullet velocity so when you pull the trigger, it generally hits whatever enemy is on your crosshair. Revolvers, even scoped ones, just can't complete in that category.

[factotum]

Er, that's a Sniper tree perk. The "ultimate" one way at the bottom.

Oops...why did I think it was the other way round? :smallredface:

Obadiah, the problem is, once you get the first shot off everyone and their dog will return fire, and the slightest hit knocks your aim off...this causes problems for slow-firing guns like sniper rifles! I reckon I can get off half-a-dozen accurate revolver shots while under fire in the same time I'd manage 2 with a rifle. Might just be me, but that's how it always seemed to work...

[Logic]

I had fun with Borderlands, but the game is fairly repetitive. Less so than some other shooters out there, but the LEVEL UP is pretty exciting.

I personally hated Mad Moxxi's Underdome Riot. I only sat through it all to get the achievements (I had already paid for it, so why the heck not?)

[Triscuitable]

I loved the first one. I played the Siren and Brick, since they were a little more interesting than Roland's "regen health, regen bullets, shoot more bullets" and the Hunter's "snipe, sidearm, bloodwing". Plus every kid (and their little brother) played Mordecai (on the Xbox), due to this strange obsession with sniper rifles and 12 year old children.

I do like games that let you play through them a few years later as someone new for an entirely different experience, though. I still (STILL) play a new Diablo II class to level 99 every year, on Battle.net Nightmare. Still playing as an Assassin, and then I'm done.

For good.

God I hope I will be. I love Mephisto-grinding and Uber Diablo.

And taking your EEEEEEAAAAAAAAARRRRRSSSS.

[shadow_archmagi]

I had fun with Borderlands, but the game is fairly repetitive. Less so than some other shooters out there, but the LEVEL UP is pretty exciting.

I personally hated Mad Moxxi's Underdome Riot. I only sat through it all to get the achievements (I had already paid for it, so why the heck not?)

My problem with the LEVEL UP system was that it was that it mimicked diablo in that it mostly provided very small percentage boosts rather than meaningful gameplay changes- I like my levelups to do something big that changes the way combat works for me, like a double jump, a freeze ray, etc. Not +4% headshot damage.

[factotum]

My problem with the LEVEL UP system was that it was that it mimicked diablo in that it mostly provided very small percentage boosts rather than meaningful gameplay changes- I like my levelups to do something big that changes the way combat works for me, like a double jump, a freeze ray, etc. Not +4% headshot damage.

Which Diablo game are we talking here? :smallconfused: Both the original and Diablo 2 had some *massive* differences in character builds as you levelled up, because you'd pick completely different skills and thus fight in a different way--there's no way you could accuse a Diablo 2 Hammerdin of being the same old as a Shock Zealot, despite both being Paladins! World of Warcraft was the first game I played where this idea of skills providing relatively tiny boosts to your abilities came in--don't know if it was the first game to actually do that, though.

I think it comes down to everything being made multiplayer-friendly, though. The main problem Blizzard had with Diablo 2 was that it was practically impossible to balance all the different skills the characters had, with the result that the balance of the game changed from patch to patch--in one version Necromancers would be godly, in the next it was Sorceresses, etc. Balance is still important, even in a basically co-op game like that, because a player who's much weaker will either feel useless or will be accused of cadging a free ride by the stronger ones!

The best example of this would be Titan Quest, of course--it was a single-player only game, so the developers felt quite free in including 9 separate skill trees with dozens of character variants, because nobody would care much about balance problems.

[shadow_archmagi]

Which Diablo did you play? World of Warcraft was the first game I played where this idea of skills providing relatively tiny boosts to your abilities came in--don't know if it was the first game to actually do that, though.


I admit that WoW was the first game that sprang to mind, but I seem to recall the Diablo skills, taken alone, as each having relatively minor effects. (Although on closer inspection the nature of the skills system was such that you could purchase entirely new abilities with your skill points; it was only upgrading abilities that was fairly linear. Points into teeth only ever gave you more, pointier teeth.)

While I admit that small increments can definitely build up over time (my Hunter vs a friend's Hunter ended up shining in drastically different situations) I dislike the way that those differences emerged very slowly, with no clear defining moment where I could say "Haha! That levelup was a big deal and I'm really glad to have gained these NEW BONUSES!"

[Sholos]

I admit that WoW was the first game that sprang to mind, but I seem to recall the Diablo skills, taken alone, as each having relatively minor effects. (Although on closer inspection the nature of the skills system was such that you could purchase entirely new abilities with your skill points; it was only upgrading abilities that was fairly linear. Points into teeth only ever gave you more, pointier teeth.)

While I admit that small increments can definitely build up over time (my Hunter vs a friend's Hunter ended up shining in drastically different situations) I dislike the way that those differences emerged very slowly, with no clear defining moment where I could say "Haha! That levelup was a big deal and I'm really glad to have gained these NEW BONUSES!"

This is probably to make balancing things easier. If you go the route of each levelup being extreme you run into one of two scenarios. If you make levelups few and far between then the game feels very samey for long periods of time and introducing new mechanics is hard because the PC hasn't really changed at all. If, on the other hand, you keep the levels coming fast and thick, you run into the issue of the PC's powerlevel drastically changing very quickly. That means that you have to come up with a ton of different things to throw at them or have a much shorter game. Now, while you might argue (perfectly validly) that having tons of new things constantly and new powers always being added is a good thing, from a practical view it means a lot more cost to the company and a much, much slower development cycle. Soo... maybe not so good.

I'm okay with Borderlands system, because the max levels of the different skills were almost all (almost, some skills were quite forgettable, or had negligent effects) very significant in how they affected you, but you had to put in the points to get them. Contrast that with some of the boost powers in Ultimate Alliance where even after putting 10 points into it, it only provided a 5% increase in damage. Or Wolverine's regeneration power healing something like 5% of his total health over a minute. That's way too slow to wait around if you're hurt much (well, not for the average patience) and certainly not fast enough to matter in the middle of a fight.

[Logic]

My problem with the LEVEL UP system was that it was that it mimicked diablo in that it mostly provided very small percentage boosts rather than meaningful gameplay changes- I like my levelups to do something big that changes the way combat works for me, like a double jump, a freeze ray, etc. Not +4% headshot damage.

I'm going to go out on a limb here, and assume that I am the only one that preferred the style of Mass Effect over its sequels. +1% damage per tick with a certain weapon, and throughout each bar of progress, you get better versions of your powers.

Borderlands was more like this to me, though I do agree it could have used more fantastical abilities upon level up than it gave you.

[GloatingSwine]

A friend just bought be the FPS Borderlands on Steam. I'm currently waiting for it to download.

I know next to nothing about the game. Can you tell me what to expect?

Diablo with guns.

[GloatingSwine]

Which Diablo game are we talking here? :smallconfused: Both the original and Diablo 2 had some *massive* differences in character builds as you levelled up, because you'd pick completely different skills and thus fight in a different way

What he's saying is that the difference between individual levels is small. There might be a massive difference between any two level 50 paladins, but neither of those paladins is very different from what they were like at level 49.

There is something to be said in most games for the idea that level ups should provide significant alterations to the feel and play of a character, but I think the place for that is in singleplayer RPGs, not in loot grinds, where the core mechanic of the game is incremental power ups through finding a gun with slightly better numbers than the one you currently have.

(Although thanks to the level differential damage scaling in blands a single levelup is actually really powerful, because it's only 2-3 levels between being a fair fight and enemies being completely incapable of hurting you at all ever. Every level difference between you and an enemy was something like 20% extra damage dealt and recieved to that enemy).