Help making a Gish.

[the Blue Morpho]

I'm making a desert Half-orc in a game with a 40 point buy. My concept is to combine a Monkey Gripped Large Great Falchion along with some draconic or druid flavor magics. I had the idea of taking 11 levels of DFA then some full BAB PrCs but I can't quite find what would make that work.

Am I approaching from the right angle or is there another approach?

We're starting at 13th level, DM approaches from a strict RAW philosophy, and Tome of Battle is absolutely OUT OF BOUNDS.

[eggs]

Strongarm Bracers work much better than Monkey grip (a couple thousand gp in place of a precious feat slot, and no penalty to attack).

I don't have a whole lot of experience with Dragonfire Adepts, so I can't comment on that part, but I don't remember them having much in the way of melee combat abilities.

My first impulse as a lazy character builder is to throw the Druid spell list onto a Favored Soul with the Dragon Magic ACF (the one that gives claws, bites, a couple Sorcerer spells and an improved capstone in exchange for weapon focus/specialization).

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

A Gish uses spells to buff himself so he can fight better, and maybe throws out an extremely strong area crowd control when necessary.

A Dragonfire Adept is completely incapable of being a Gish.

Monkeygrip is a waste of a feat, and most Gish builds are feat-starved as it is. Just use a normal martial Falchion. Otherwise go with a bludgeoning weapon and cast Greater Mighty Wallop on it every day.

If you want Druid casting, forget manufactured weapons and just play a Druid 20. Get Natural Spell at 6th level and you'll be amazing in melee and amazing at spellcasting. You can even pick up Dragon Wild Shape later on.


If you want a draconic theme and you're starting play at 4th level or higher, start with the Draconic Creature template and buy off the level adjustment (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm) prior to the start of play. Even if you don't do that, go with the standard Sorcadin build: Paladin 2/ Sorcerer 4/ Spellsword 1/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Sacred Exorcist 8. You could possibly use Paladin of Freedom (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#paladinVariantsFreedom SlaughterAndTyranny), but it's absolutely necessary that you be good/exalted. You'll want the feat Arcane Preparation so you can cast sanctified spells from BoED, which includes (Greater) Luminous Armor, the only armor buff that benefits from Abjurant Champion. You'll want the feat Ancestral Relic from BoED to create a custom Runestaff from MIC, using the pricing rules on page 224 under 'Creating New Runestaffs' to put whatever spells you want onto it, such as the buffs that you'll only be casting once or twice each day. Between the Cha synergy, spells like Wings of Cover and standard arcane Gish buffs, and having nearly unlimited spells known via the Ancestral Relic Runestaff, it will be an extremely useful character.

[the Blue Morpho]

Allow me to correct something. I am not making a Desert Half-orc, I HAVE a Desert Half-Orc that has been allowed to be rebuilt from the ground up. Point buy, feats, classes, and skill points may be changed, but race is set.

RP wise, the character does not transform-- even when he was a druid, I traded Wildshape for the Aspect of the Dragon ACF. His background is tied in some way (unclear whether by blood or deed) to dragons. I could simply make a sorcerer gish, but jumping from Nature Divine spells to practiced arcane seems silly, where as SLAs (such as from DFA) are a limited kind of innate magic.
Yes, I do realize Invocations us CHA and the books commonly refer to Sorcerers as having some measure of dragon in their blood, but for this character that's not how it's playing out.

Finally, druid/dragon spice. I'm resigned to only decent BAB and decent magicness (including DFA breath in that category). Not looking for optimization, I'm cool with being Tier 3 or even 4, just as long as the feel and fluff match up.

[the Blue Morpho]

New idea:

Druid-like Duskblade. Is it out there and, if not, how would one make it.

[Varil]

I haven't toyed with it, but maybe one of the Ranger variants around would work? Sword of the Arcane Order/Mystic Ranger or some such. There's a handbook floating around, so a bit of Googling should find it.

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=10830.0

SotAO/Mystic Wildshape Ranger.

You lose Combat Styles, your animal companion, martial weapon proficiency, one favored enemy and have delayed FE progression. You get Wildshaping as a Druid (but only small and medium animals), additional spells and spell slots, and access to some Wizard and Sorcerer spells.

[Igneel]

I haven't toyed with it, but maybe one of the Ranger variants around would work? Sword of the Arcane Order/Mystic Ranger or some such. There's a handbook floating around, so a bit of Googling should find it.

Currently in the process of building one actually. Its pretty good in some respects, just kinda wish it had more spellcasting :/

A Mystic Ranger with the Sword of the Arcane Order feat and the Shooting Star sub levels [both from Com. Valor] along with the Magical Training feat [Players Guide to Faerun] gets you your own spellbook that you can scribe spells in yourself and assuming you have a friendly wizard you can share spells.

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

New idea:

Druid-like Duskblade. Is it out there and, if not, how would one make it.

Could you work with your DM to just stick a new spell list on the existing Duskblade chassis?

[eggs]

How does that combination get away with trading away its animal companion twice?

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

Which combo? Mystic loses your AC, Wildshape does not, according to the SRD.

[eggs]

I meant Shooting Star + Mystic; I figured I'd sneak that post in right under Igneel's.

[Igneel]

I meant Shooting Star + Mystic; I figured I'd sneak that post in right under Igneel's.

Because you can choose when not to take certain sub levels. The 4th lvl ability of Shooting Star has two abilities, one requiring you to give up your Animal companion (which you can't do) but the second has no requirement to take.

Assuming that I understand the mechanics correctly anyways, but then I've been proven wrong on such matters before and the Dm hasn't corrected me yet.

Edit: Yep, on page #34 of C. Valor

A character need not take all the substitution levels provided for a class. For instance, a female dwarf paladin can decide only to take the Berronar Valkyrie substitution level at 6th level, ignoring the previous substitution levels.

[Endarire]

Why are you so opposed to changing shape?

Also, Hood (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872838/Little_Red_Raiding_Hood:_A_Tale_of_38;_Guide_to_th e_3.5_Dragoon). It's a versatile concept.

Draconically, you can go Dragonborn (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20060105b&page=1) for no LA. Goes well with Hood. (You lose most your base race traits, but they were probably forgettable anyway.)

[herrhauptmann]

Monkeygrip is a waste of a feat, and most Gish builds are feat-starved as it is. Just use a normal martial Falchion. Otherwise go with a bludgeoning weapon and cast Greater Mighty Wallop on it every day.

If you really want to waste a feat, get a [Heavy] gold or platinum weapon from Magic of Faerun.
All [Heavy] weapons are automatically exotics, so you'll need to spend a feat to fight with it anyway. The advantage to [heavy]? Your weapon is supposed to deal damage as if one size larger (originally used 3.0 weapon size rulings, so doublecheck with your DM and his interpretation).

Now the fun thing? Make it a large gold weapon (using strongarm bracers) and start dealing damage as if 2 size categories bigger, rather than 1.

Perhaps a large, gold minotaur greathammer (MM4). Should be 4d6 damage. Maybe 5d6, I forget.
Find out if DM then decides you need to use EWP twice. (once for regular greathammer, and again for a heavy greathammer)

[eggs]

Edit: Yep, on page #34 of C. Valor
That doesn't clarify taking certain features from one specific substitution level and not others in that same level. Given that some come with benefits and nerfs that aren't a part of a single feature's write-up, I'm really doubtful that they can be cherrypicked on an individual ability-by-ability basis. Or that it would pass in most games.

[Igneel]

That doesn't clarify taking certain features from one specific substitution level and not others in that same level. Given that some come with benefits and nerfs that aren't a part of a single feature's write-up, I'm really doubtful that they can be cherrypicked on an individual ability-by-ability basis. Or that it would pass in most games.

Well then me an my Dm can very well be wrong. I honestly don't know as half of that level involves you giving up something to gain it, but the other half doesn't. We are just using the assumption that if you can't meet the requirements you can't take it (in this case the lack of Animal Companion I can't take half that level's ability), and ones you do meet you can take (being that it doesn't have requirements I can take the other).
So, to the OP, definitely get this figured out before thinking about taking my advice. My Dm seems to be okay with it, but some might not be. I'll be bringing this up with mine once more just to be sure.

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

Level substitutions can indeed be picked, and you can skip any you like. They are not like PF archetypes, and they basically amount to connected alternate class features: take them if you want, leave them if you don't.

It does seem rather counter-intuitive, and seems as though there may be quite a bit of potential for abuse; though I admit i haven't actually seen any.

[Fable Wright]

Allow me to correct something. I am not making a Desert Half-orc, I HAVE a Desert Half-Orc that has been allowed to be rebuilt from the ground up. Point buy, feats, classes, and skill points may be changed, but race is set.

RP wise, the character does not transform-- even when he was a druid, I traded Wildshape for the Aspect of the Dragon ACF. His background is tied in some way (unclear whether by blood or deed) to dragons. I could simply make a sorcerer gish, but jumping from Nature Divine spells to practiced arcane seems silly, where as SLAs (such as from DFA) are a limited kind of innate magic.
Yes, I do realize Invocations us CHA and the books commonly refer to Sorcerers as having some measure of dragon in their blood, but for this character that's not how it's playing out.

Finally, druid/dragon spice. I'm resigned to only decent BAB and decent magicness (including DFA breath in that category). Not looking for optimization, I'm cool with being Tier 3 or even 4, just as long as the feel and fluff match up.
One thing you might consider is refluffing a Glaivelock build. Something like Warlock 2/Cleric of Nature-y God 3/Eldritch Disciple 5/Hellfire (Refluffed as Dragonfire, if you so choose) Warlock 3 would probably work for you. The build works like this: The Eldritch Glaive invocation from Dragon Magic lets you take a full attack action with your Eldritch Blast as a Reach weapon as a Full-Round Action. The damage normally isn't too strong, but when you add the Hellfire Warlock class, you can get some impressive damage off each turn. Plus, you still get Invocations and such. Then, Eldritch Disciple lets you add in some Cleric Casting. Enough to cast Divine Power, which grants you extra attacks off your Eldritch Glaive, and some movement options like Knight's Move. Plus, it allows you to heal damage that you accrue from using Hellfire easily. Finally, since you're a nature-cleric type, you can still get some Nature related spells and abilities in there, along with your HellDragonfire Eldritch Glaive and utility invocations (mostly found in the Complete Mage and Complete Arcane). Be sure to grab Quicken Spell-like Ability (Hellfire Eldritch Glaive) as well- 3/day Full Attacks as a swift action, especially right after casting Divine Power on yourself and moving into combat, can really help empower the build. It may be a bit on the powerful side, but I hope it fits the flavor that you were going for.