my psychic assassin/ stat drainer

[morkendi]

I built out my character to 20 to see the potential, just checking to see if I made any mistakes.

Changeling.

10 str, 16 dex, 12 con, 12 int, 19 wis, 12 cha

Levels 1 and 2 Rouge. I took normal rouge for first lvls of the build for skills and evasion and it wont effect what I want later. I get my first 1d6 sneak attack, and trap finding as well. I took able learner as first feat. Little bit of a stretch as it is a human and doppleganger feat, but I am changeling so DM let me qualify. All skills now cost 1 and no cross class.

Levels 3 though 5 are Psychic Warrior to get started with my psyonic abilities netting me 3 feats as well. I take weapon finess, track, and practiced manifestor

6 and 7 are psy assassin. By this time, I am getting 3d6 backstab. I had to take lvl 7 to get my bab up to the +5 neede for next step. now 2d6 and death attack plus poison use and save. One more feat craven . I also get one caster lvl in psy war because of this. Practiced manifestor and fractional bab meet requirements.

8 though 17 are slayer wich gives me all the abilities and advances me in manifester lvl and powers.

18,19, and 20, I went back into psy assassin. I get danger sense. Sneak attack is only 3d6, but that not the point. I get danger sense, another + to poison save, and mind cripple chosen as my power.

At this point I have 138 skill points. A bab bonus of +17/12/7/2. Save are Fort 8, ref 9, and will 10. Hit Die are 15d8 and 5d6, but powers make all that change.

All feats are:

Able learner, weapon finess, craven, linked power, track, practiced manifestor, and a total of 4 expand knowledge feats.

Powers are:

1st lvl. Compression, chamilion, and inertial armor.
Chameleon is +10 to hide wich is added to my already high skill.

2nd lvl. Body adjustment, str of my enemy, body equlibrium, energy stun. I can save or be stunned wich gives sneak attack. I also drain str and add to mine.

3rd lvl. Keen edge, empathic trans hostile, ectoplasmic form, and mind wipe.

4th. True venom, freedom of movement, dim door, and psychic reformation.
I drain con now as well. Save 1d8 and save or take another d8 next round. Psychic refornation allows me to chanege out feats, skills, or powers depending on the job.

5th lvl. Adapt body, Plane Shift.
I can adapt myself to live in a hostile enviroment. Plane shift allows me to take bodies if I assassinate someone to another plane. Good luck finding your buddy I kill after I drop his body on the plane of fire.


None of this may seem outstanding till you add things together. First round of combat, hide at+13 before you even take in to account for skill ranks.

2nd round, link str of my enemy and true venom and do a move action. Sneak attack with my scimitar is now 4d6+20 plus weapon bonus and drains 1 str, save or 1d8 con, and 1 int. My attack bonus is +20/+15/+10/+5. Crit range is 16-20 with keen edge.

I have 131 power points at a 17 manifestor lvl. My inertial armor gives me a 23 ac for 17 hours a day if max augmented without takeing into account magic items or armor. I am immune to mind effects as well as save for half with evasion on AoE spells. I can heal myself for 8d12 or use impathic transfer and aoe it with augment to heal up to 90 points.

I can walk on none solid surfaces, climp, ectoplasmic form allows flight, and also have adapt body.

I have good rogue skills and can chage into any huminiod with changling ability

I can hold my own in a open fight, stealth with the best of them, and reliably heal myself. I have a very open utility power set and can change them along with skills and feats depending on what is needed.

To me, this seems better than any normal rouge or assassin, and honestly capable of tanking as well if the need is there.

[vrigar]

Out of curiosity - potential for what?
Maximum damage per round?
Role playing enjoyability?
Problem solving versatility?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Psychic Warrior bonus feats can only be Psionic feats or feats from the Fighter bonus list. Track and Craven fall into neither of those categories.

You aren't meeting the manifester level prerequisite for Psychic Assassin, you need to have the feat Practiced Manifester before you hit 6th level.

You're not using any Changeling substitution levels or capitalizing on Shapechanger shenanigans, so wear a Hat of Disguise and go Human. Or use Hellbred and get Mindsight to be better at picking targets with Mind Cripple.

The ideal build goes Spellthief 1/ Psion or Ardent 4/ Psychic Assassin 6/ Slayer 9. Wear a Ring of Evasion if that's important to you. Psion gets the best power choices, plus Telepath (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070411a) can get Mindsight and be able to select targets with Mind Cripple perfectly. Ardent with Substitute Powers (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070629a) comes extremely close to having just as good a list, and its biggest advantage is that with Practiced Manifester you'll still get 9th level powers. Spellthief can use wands of Wizard spells from any of the schools that it gets access to, including Wraithstrike, so spread around wand chambers liberally. It also prevents you from 'accidentally' typing Rouge instead of Rogue.

[Psyren]

How are you getting to 6th-level powers after losing 6 manifester levels? (-2 from regular rogue, -1 from Slayer 1, -3 from 5 levels of Psychic Assassin.) This also causes your base PP to suffer greatly; at 20, you'll have the base PP of a Psywar 14 (59 PP). Your bonus PP are also based on this number, but Practiced Manifester (which you need anyway) can help there.

Your BAB is also off by one:

Rogue 2 = 1
Psywar 3 = 2
Slayer 10 = 10
PsyAss 5 = 3

Total: 16 @ 20

Finally, you're mistaken about Truevenom - both instances of Con damage allow a fort save to negate. There doesn't actually appear to be a no-save portion of the power (maybe they meant you don't have to make a save for putting it on your claws?)

I didn't check the rest of the math yet, but for the build - it sounds like you're focused around doing lots of ability damage with Mind Cripple and Strength of my Enemy. (Forget Truevenom - it's a standard action, poison is easily resisted, fort negates, and it only goes off 1/round anyway whereas the other two can trigger multiple times on a full attack and have no save.)

My suggestion, since you want to be a skillmonkey, is that you instead go straight Psychic Rogue to 11 (14 if you want Skill Mastery.) They get Mind Cripple too (and can get SoME via EK), and it also means you can put that 19 in Int for even more skills, from a much better list than you get from Psywar and Slayer. You'll also have much higher sneak attack, a higher ML, one more power known and more PP. You can even finish the build up with Slayer to get 16+ BAB and your 4th attack.


EDIT: Or follow Biffo's suggestion of Psion/Ardent as the base class instead. (Though for myself - if I wanted to be a Psion skillmonkey, I'd go Psion/Incarnate/Soul Manifester instead, and same with Ardent.)

[morkendi]

How are you getting to 6th-level powers after losing 6 manifester levels? (-2 from regular rogue, -1 from Slayer 1, -3 from 5 levels of Psychic Assassin.) This also causes your base PP to suffer greatly; at 20, you'll have the base PP of a Psywar 14 (59 PP). Your bonus PP are also based on this number, but Practiced Manifester (which you need anyway) can help there.

Your BAB is also off by one:

Rogue 2 = 1
Psywar 3 = 2
Slayer 10 = 10
PsyAss 5 = 3

Total: 16 @ 20

Finally, you're mistaken about Truevenom - both instances of Con damage allow a fort save to negate. There doesn't actually appear to be a no-save portion of the power (maybe they meant you don't have to make a save for putting it on your claws?)

I didn't check the rest of the math yet, but for the build - it sounds like you're focused around doing lots of ability damage with Mind Cripple and Strength of my Enemy. (Forget Truevenom - it's a standard action, poison is easily resisted, fort negates, and it only goes off 1/round anyway whereas the other two can trigger multiple times on a full attack and have no save.)

My suggestion, since you want to be a skillmonkey, is that you instead go straight Psychic Rogue to 11 (14 if you want Skill Mastery.) They get Mind Cripple too (and can get SoME via EK), and it also means you can put that 19 in Int for even more skills, from a much better list than you get from Psywar and Slayer. You'll also have much higher sneak attack, a higher ML, one more power known and more PP. You can even finish the build up with Slayer to get 16+ BAB and your 4th attack.


EDIT: Or follow Biffo's suggestion of Psion/Ardent as the base class instead. (Though for myself - if I wanted to be a Psion skillmonkey, I'd go Psion/Incarnate/Soul Manifester instead, and same with Ardent.)

The DM useing fractional BAB wich boost it by 1.

Truevenom pasted off D&D wiki. even though I have true venom weapon, same discription

Psychometabolism

Level:

Psychic warrior 4

Display:

Material; see text


Manifesting Time:

1 swift action


Range:

Personal


Target:

You


Duration:

1 min./level or until discharged if discharged, i dont have a lot of combat powers really, and it is a swift action


Saving Throw:

None and Fortitude negates; see text wonder why it says none here? but they still have to make 2 saves. It last 17 minutes, so keep saveing.


Power Points:

7


If you have a claw attack (either from an actual natural weapon or from an effect such as claws of the beast), you can use this power to produce a horrible poison that coats one of your claws. On your next successful melee attack with the claw during the power’s duration, the poison deals 1d8 points of Constitution damage immediately and another 1d8 points of Constitution damage 1 minute later. The target of your attack can negate each instance of damage with a Fortitude save.

I took practiced manifestor originally, and forgot to back the stuff out. I drop one power by dropping Discover psy power and get it back. Brings back 4 lvls to 17 manifester lvl. Also drop the 6th lvl powers and a couple 5, the flavor is still there.

The character is currently lvl 5. I was building out to see potential. Changeling favored class is rouge, and that where I started as the party needed one. Ill make the edits in original.

[Psyren]

I know what Truevenom says. The important line is here:


The target of your attack can negate each instance of damage with a Fortitude save.

That means both attempts to damage their Con get the fort save, not just one. And it's a poison effect on top of that, which means you have to deal with the tons upon tons of monsters who either get a boost to saves vs. poison or are flat-out immune.

You appear confused about the duration. The "1 min./level or until discharged" refers to how long it stays on your claws, not how long it afflicts the target. The text tells you exactly what happens to the target - you hit them, they make one save now and one more save 10 rounds later (if they failed the first one.) After you hit, whether they save or not, the venom falls off your claws/weapon and you need to manifest it again.

It's not terrible but there's better things you can do with 7 PP per round.

[morkendi]

I know what Truevenom says. The important line is here:



That means both attempts to damage their Con get the fort save, not just one. And it's a poison effect on top of that, which means you have to deal with the tons upon tons of monsters who either get a boost to saves vs. poison or are flat-out immune.

You appear confused about the duration. The "1 min./level or until discharged" refers to how long it stays on your claws, not how long it afflicts the target. The text tells you exactly what happens to the target - you hit them, they make one save now and one more save 10 rounds later (if they failed the first one.) After you hit, whether they save or not, the venom falls off your claws/weapon and you need to manifest it again.

It's not terrible but there's better things you can do with 7 PP per round.

Not confussed, you are right.. What I am saying, what powers do I have that are damage based really. I have the pp to invest in the right situation. It fits the build as the assasin. The only other save or else spell i have is the stun, and If I stun you i get sneak attack next round. Chance for 2d8 con damage is still pretty nasty against anyone it effects. and the str and Int are no save. Its an evil based campain with a lot of city time. whats immune to poison in the city? not much.

[morkendi]

Out of curiosity - potential for what?
Maximum damage per round?
Role playing enjoyability?
Problem solving versatility?

Over all versitility and role playing. It is an evil campain with a lot of city time. She is an assassin type character, but going strait assasin leaves some weaknesses to me that have been addressed in this build.

Its not optimized like some people do, but not much cheese either. Character is very self supportive in any situation and can hold her own for a while in most situations.

3 man party consisting of a diviner, cleric of Bane, and me. Cleric tanks with divine power and such even though I can tank as well if needed. I also have a deep crystal dagger. I can charge it with power points. Evey 2 pp gives extra 2d6 damage. Lets say I do 8 power points. My sneak attack is now 1d4 plus 11d6 plus stat drains.

[Psyren]

Not confussed, you are right.. What I am saying, what powers do I have that are damage based really. I have the pp to invest in the right situation. It fits the build as the assasin. The only other save or else spell i have is the stun, and If I stun you i get sneak attack next round. Chance for 2d8 con damage is still pretty nasty against anyone it effects. and the str and Int are no save. Its an evil based campain with a lot of city time. whats immune to poison in the city? not much.

Well I should hope you'd have no problem assassinating random cityfolk at ECL 13-14 (when you get 4ths for Truevenom in that build.) The problem is that once you hit those levels, regular humans are already beneath you; you should be going after kings, or guildmasters, bumping off uppity Aberrations and Dragons, possibly even taking a few planar contracts etc. A DC 14+Wis fort save isn't too impressive against targets like that.

Unless you're in Faerun (with epic NPCs strolling through the market to buy grapes etc.), going 1-20 without leaving the city is unlikely.

[morkendi]

Well I should hope you'd have no problem assassinating random cityfolk at ECL 13-14 (when you get 4ths for Truevenom in that build.) The problem is that once you hit those levels, regular humans are already beneath you; you should be going after kings, or guildmasters, bumping off uppity Aberrations and Dragons, possibly even taking a few planar contracts etc. A DC 14+Wis fort save isn't too impressive against targets like that.

Unless you're in Faerun (with epic NPCs strolling through the market to buy grapes etc.), going 1-20 without leaving the city is unlikely.

We are Faerun. Right now Balders gate. We do adventure, but that normally to get things we research are hear about. We have a diviner that finds out a lot.

[Psyren]

we are Faerun. Right now Balders gate

Even then, hitting 1-20 will mean eventually jumping Khelben in the marketplace and beating him to death with his own baguette. Which is a good way to end up a grease stain on the side of the tavern.

[morkendi]

We are level 5 right now. We started at 1st lvl, i like to get an idea where to go ahead of time so i know what I am steering for. May never reach 20, and things may change along the way depending on what happens. Right now, we are acting like the hero to gain trust while also trying to establish ourselves.

[eggs]

Low PP is going to be a problem, especially in the mid-levels.

I'm a bit doubtful about this build's combat ability:

You're going to want a way to force sneak attacks that doesn't bleed PP into Energy Stun.

You're also going to want a way to move and full attack. A handful of damage and a smidge of ability damage aren't all that meaningful against NPCs unless you can stack those attacks up fast.

If you plan on using Truevenom Weapon as a primary offense, you'll want an Assassination (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070314a) weapon to spike the DC.

Overall, I'm a bit confused as to this build's advantage over Psychic Rogue or Lurk: I'm seeing less PP, lower ML, fewer skill points, fewer powers known, fewer feats free and comparable combat numbers/ability damage.

[Person_Man]

I would like to second Psyren's suggestion for strait Psychic Rogue (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723b), which can pick up Mind Cripple at level 11. It's less "cheesy" then weird multi/PrC combos, you don't lose any manifester levels, you get Sneak Attack, Evasion, and Danger Sense (Trap Sense/Uncanny Dodge/Imp Uncanny Dodge) by default, and the power list is useful and makes thematic sense. (Including Deja Vu, Vigor, Aversion, Hustle, Freedom of Movement, True Seeing, and a few other gems, plus whatever you want to invest in with Expanded Knowledge).

If you're interested in one-shotting enemies with ability damage, you should consider a Spell Storing (www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Spell_Storing) weapon. Have an ally cast Shivering Touch (from Frostburn) or some similar less abusive spell in it for you, and you're set.

Also, if you're worried about Power Points, just pick up a Mindfeeder (www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Mindfeeder) weapon (which IIRC was nerfed in the Magic Item Compendium, but is still a fairly efficient way to get Power Points). Or you can dabble in Incarnum and take the Midnight Augmentation Feat (investing essentia to lower PP costs), which is potentially more abusive depending on how your DM reads it and which Power you use it on.