One Size Armor Fits All?

[Razanir]

Okay, my PCs are the type of people who will loot ANYTHING that's not nailed down. Even enemy armor and weapons. Now let's say they want to wear the armor because it's better than theirs, and it's the right size even! Are we supposed to assume it magically reshapes to the right body size or would it be fair to charge a fee to get it refitted. I know there's a fee for full-plate, but 200+ seems a bit much for really basic stuff like leather. If I include a fee, how much should it be? Also, what would be a good price for resizing (like Small to Medium)

So really 4 questions:
Should I charge to refit armor?
What's a fair price?
What about resizing?
And how much should it cost to make it magic one-size-fits-most armor?

[deuxhero]

If it is magic, it DOES magically reshape.

[Daftendirekt]

If you want to adhere to 'realism' or fluff or whatever you want to call it, though... suits of plate armor were almost always made to fit the buyer, and so I don't think it would be too much a stretch for them to have to pay for refitting of that, especially if say the suit was for a dwarf and the PC is a human.

But, yes, magical armor quite specifically sizes itself to the wearer.

[Spiryt]

If you want to adhere to 'realism' or fluff or whatever you want to call it, though... suits of plate armor were almost always made to fit the buyer, and so I don't think it would be too much a stretch for them to have to pay for refitting of that, especially if say the suit was for a dwarf and the PC is a human.

But, yes, magical armor quite specifically sizes itself to the wearer.

Full plate already requires paying 2d4 x 100 GP to fit properly.

Other armors doesn't require it from whatever reason, presumably because full plate in 3.5 is supposed to represent 'full' armor with whole body covered.

One can have badly fitting breastplate and helmet and still move around somehow, I guess.

Simplest solution would be changing something in above equation, to produce some cheaper/more expensive fitting of other armors.

[Garagos]

If plate costs about 200gp to refit to a new wearer, I'd say about 15% of the base armor price is a good rule of thumb to follow. Changing size categories should be more if its even possible. And yes magic armor does automatically reshape for a new wearer. I'm not sure if that works for creatures of different sizes though.

[Daftendirekt]

If plate costs about 200gp to refit to a new wearer, I'd say about 15% of the base armor price is a good rule of thumb to follow. Changing size categories should be more if its even possible. And yes magic armor does automatically reshape for a new wearer. I'm not sure if that works for creatures of different sizes though.

I think it does. At least that's how we have done it in our group the once or twice we've defeated something big with magical gear.

[Greyfeld85]

Unless you're playing a very gritty and granular game, where every resource matters, and your players have to scrape just to get by, and magic is almost non-existent, I would suggest just handwaving it. There's no purpose other than inconvenience and an additional gold sink behind forcing them to get armor refitted before they can wear it (when it's already the right size).

[Razanir]

Woohoo! Magic non-magic reshaping armor! Thanks again, Playground

[Person_Man]

Unless you're playing a very gritty and granular game, where every resource matters, and your players have to scrape just to get by, and magic is almost non-existent, I would suggest just handwaving it. There's no purpose other than inconvenience and an additional gold sink behind forcing them to get armor refitted before they can wear it (when it's already the right size).

I agree with this. There's basically two ways to go about treasure. You can either be realistic, with elaborate rules and charts for each item, it's size, weight, finding a buyer (is there a shopkeeper who can realistically buy and resell 100 suits of orcish leather armor?), etc. Or you can just hand wave it and say that they get X gp worth of treasure (which they can sell for a 50% markdown if they don't like what you give them).

I generally prefer the latter, because I personally don't enjoy bookkeeping or "backpack tetris" mini-games. You could also try and split the difference and do something in between, but then creative players will try and metagame your choices in order to squeeze out more treasure.

[Keneth]

I think it does. At least that's how we have done it in our group the once or twice we've defeated something big with magical gear.
We have a house rule that says magic armor scales down or up one size category by itself. I don't think there's such a rule in the RAW however, although I may be mistaken.

[Deophaun]

We have a house rule that says magic armor scales down or up one size category by itself. I don't think there's such a rule in the RAW however, although I may be mistaken.
Pg 213 DMG:

Many magic garments are made to be easily adjustable, or they adjust themselves magically to the wearer. As a rule, size should not keep overweight characters, characters of various genders, or characters of various kinds from using magic items. Players shouldn’t be penalized for choosing a halfling character or deciding that their character is especially tall.
So, basic thrust: magic items adjust size to the wearer unless there's a real good reason.

[Tyndmyr]

Other armors doesn't require it from whatever reason, presumably because full plate in 3.5 is supposed to represent 'full' armor with whole body covered.

Chain shouldn't really need to be reshaped, barring grotesquely different body size/configuration. Likewise, leather is fairly flexible...even hardened leather can be fairly easily fitted to you with no investment.

Those are basically all the popular armors. Sure, there's halfplate, but nobody actually wears halfplate.

[Spiryt]

Chain shouldn't really need to be reshaped, barring grotesquely different body size/configuration. Likewise, leather is fairly flexible...even hardened leather can be fairly easily fitted to you with no investment.

Those are basically all the popular armors. Sure, there's halfplate, but nobody actually wears halfplate.

Historically, higher quality mail armor (for 'someone', not for any miscreant out there) was tailored to user as well, it's just relatively practical even if it doesn't fit all that well.

[Keneth]

So, basic thrust: magic items adjust size to the wearer unless there's a real good reason.
Yeah, but that's a really vague ruling and aimed at characters who are small or medium. Does it mean that a Titan can equip a Pixie's armor? I think there's a lot of fair interpretation needed here. D&D is often specific where it doesn't need to be and vague for the most common of cases.

[Deophaun]

Yeah, but that's a really vague ruling and aimed at characters who are small or medium. Does it mean that a Titan can equip a Pixie's armor? I think there's a lot of fair interpretation needed here. D&D is often specific where it doesn't need to be and vague for the most common of cases.
Agreed on the vagueness of it. But, it seems to be the general rule that the game should follow, with instances such as the one you brought up falling under the exception clause.

[Yajirobe]

I don't want to be a killjoy, but I must bring the MIC page 219 into light.


Most of the time when a magic item is discovered, a character's size or shape shouldn't be an issue. As a rule, size should not keep overweight characters, characters of various genders, or charac*ters of various races from using magic items. Players shouldn't be penalized for choosing a halfling character or deciding that
their character is especially tall, so as a rule any magic item auto*matically adjusts to fit its wearer.
A few exceptions to this rule are given below.
Armor: As long as you're the same size category and the same general shape as the armor's original owner, the armor functions normally for you. Halflings can wear armor made for goblins, and centaurs can wear armor made for wemics.
However, inappropriately sized or shaped armor can't be worn.
Armor doesn't resize to fit a wearer of a different size category, nor does armor constructed for a humanoid-shaped creature fit a nonhumanoid-shaped creature. In cases where a nonhumanoid-shaped creature tries to wear armor created for another nonhumanoid, you must use your best judgment. A blink dog could certainly fit into barding crafted for a riding dog or other Medium quadruped, but it probably couldn't wear armor crafted for a Medium monstrous spider.
Weapons: Weapons don't change size to match the wielder. You can wield an inappropriately sized weapon with a penalty (see PH 113). Regardless of a weapon's size, as long as you can hold a weapon you can activate its abilities; for example, a human could still activate the wishes held within a Huge luck blade even though he couldn't wield it in combat.

I know this COULD be an optional rule, but it does not show as optional, but as an exception. I'd say you are not penalized if you are an orc wearing an elven plate, or a halfling wearing goblin armor. But a halfling should not be able to wear orc gear according to this.

[Deophaun]

I don't want to be a killjoy, but I must bring the MIC page 219 into light.
The joy... it has so much blood...

Learn something new every day.

[lunar2]

according to the DMG, size and shape are not an issue with most magic items. however, right after that it gives rolls to determine the size of weapons and armor, implying that size is an issue with weapons and armor. the MiC rule confirms this.

[Razanir]

So seeing as this is getting into an... interesting discussion, I think I'll say my house rule for this. Light and medium armor can be used by anyone of the size category, heavy armor costs 20% of the price to reshape. No magic items need reshaped within size categories. Otherwise, you can always smelt it down to raw iron to make anything up to its purchase price (I would say 1.5, but that could break the economy)

[Yajirobe]

So, in the end, a pixie may loot and use the Bracers of Armor from the Titan, but it may not use the staff?

[lunar2]

if it a magic staff, it can (it's not classified as a weapon). if it is just an enhanced quarterstaff, it can't, because that is classified as a weapon.

[Yajirobe]

if it a magic staff, it can (it's not classified as a weapon). if it is just an enhanced quarterstaff, it can't, because that is classified as a weapon.

Yeah... I meant a quarterstaff... You may not swing it, but you may use the hypothetical Phantasmal Killer 1/day that said quarterstaff has.

But on the reshape of armor, I might say that this may be used as a trope device for the bikini armor... Suddenly the magical full plate that the male paladin wore now is a lot more revealing on the female Fighter that looted it.

[lunar2]

no, i actually go by the primary classification of the item. a magic staff, even if enhanced as a quarterstaff, is a staff, not a weapon. it resizes for whoever holds it, and can be used normally by them. a rod is a rod, even if enhanced as a light/heavy mace, etc. only items that are actually classified as weapons or armor don't resize.

[Malak'ai]

I've always ruled that Heavy armours need to be refitted, charging 15% of base price.
Also in some instaces where the body shape of the new wearer is drasticly different from the origional wearer (a medium build fighters brestplate being looted by a fat priest) I charged a 5% refitting charge for metal armours, be it a chain shirt or breastplate, just for comfort and ability to move properly. There is nothing worse than having the chainshirt you stole off a dead Bard being so tight it restricts your breathing.

[Razanir]

I've always ruled that Heavy armours need to be refitted, charging 15% of base price.
Also in some instaces where the body shape of the new wearer is drasticly different from the origional wearer (a medium build fighters brestplate being looted by a fat priest) I charged a 5% refitting charge for metal armours, be it a chain shirt or breastplate, just for comfort and ability to move properly. There is nothing worse than having the chainshirt you stole off a dead Bard being so tight it restricts your breathing.

So long story short, that bikini armor magically becomes a full suit unless it's made of metal, in which case you pay 5% of the price. Yay for breaking fantasy economies! :smallbiggrin: Let it be known that I actually do like this houserule

[Malak'ai]

So long story short, that bikini armor magically becomes a full suit unless it's made of metal, in which case you pay 5% of the price. Yay for breaking fantasy economies! :smallbiggrin: Let it be known that I actually do like this houserule

Lol, it wasn't my intention to break the enonomy, but to add to it. The poor ol' blacksmith/armoursmith/tinker has to toil away either adding or removing links, altering the curve or replacing straps and buckles on the breastplate.

Also, a chain bikini, while incredably sexy would just be OWW! Imagine the pinching and chaifing in those sensitive areas! Any women agree?

[Keneth]

no, i actually go by the primary classification of the item. a magic staff, even if enhanced as a quarterstaff, is a staff, not a weapon. it resizes for whoever holds it, and can be used normally by them. a rod is a rod, even if enhanced as a light/heavy mace, etc. only items that are actually classified as weapons or armor don't resize.
What is the primary classification though? If my quarterstaff is also a magic staff or my mace is also a rod, what makes it so special that it can be resized? I would say that the item is resized/reshaped to be usable as a staff or a rod, but not as a weapon of the wielder's size category.


I don't want to be a killjoy, but I must bring the MIC page 219 into light.
I knew I've seen something like this before, but I could not remember which splat book it was in. That's why we explicitly houseruled it in the first place.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Wait wait wait. What I'm currently seeing is: people are surprised that an aspect of 3.5 doesn't make sense.

:confused:

[Drelua]

I've always ruled that Heavy armours need to be refitted, charging 15% of base price.
Also in some instaces where the body shape of the new wearer is drasticly different from the origional wearer (a medium build fighters brestplate being looted by a fat priest) I charged a 5% refitting charge for metal armours, be it a chain shirt or breastplate, just for comfort and ability to move properly. There is nothing worse than having the chainshirt you stole off a dead Bard being so tight it restricts your breathing.

Why only metal armour? :smallconfused: Leather armour was pretty hard, and really not much more flexible than a metal cuirass. If you're using a rule like this, which makes perfect sene if you don't mind the book kepping, I don't see why it should only apply to some armour. For example, I'm 6'4'' and about 170 pounds, so pretty skinny. I'm pretty sure I couldn't even wear padded armour from a dwarf. It would simultaneously be extremely baggy and give me a terrible wedgie. :smalleek:

That's a bit of an extreme example, but even an elf's leather cuirass wouldn't cover my stomach as low as it should, and it would probably be tight even on me. The most common mistake I've seen with leather armour is people picturing it being the same material as their leather jacket. An easy thing to do, even when you know it's not accurate.

[Malak'ai]

Why only metal armour? :smallconfused: Leather armour was pretty hard, and really not much more flexible than a metal cuirass. If you're using a rule like this, which makes perfect sene if you don't mind the book kepping, I don't see why it should only apply to some armour. For example, I'm 6'4'' and about 170 pounds, so pretty skinny. I'm pretty sure I couldn't even wear padded armour from a dwarf. It would simultaneously be extremely baggy and give me a terrible wedgie. :smalleek:

That's a bit of an extreme example, but even an elf's leather cuirass wouldn't cover my stomach as low as it should, and it would probably be tight even on me. The most common mistake I've seen with leather armour is people picturing it being the same material as their leather jacket. An easy thing to do, even when you know it's not accurate.

In my experience, and yes, I have tried on a boiled leather breast piece before, that with the likes of leather, padded, hide or what ever it's more a simple task of readjusting (tightening/loosening) the straps to fit round different sized girths as even boiled leather still has some give in it. As for length, I see your point, but most of my players tend to be Human/Human sized (Half Elves or Half Orcs).