Dragonborn/Dracolyte question

[Dyrynify]

The question is simple: Can a Dragonborn (Races of the Dragon, p.the first half of the book) become a Dracolyte (Draconomicon, p.122)?

Assuming all other requirements can be met, does a Dragonborn qualify as a non dragon for the racial requirement?

[Kuulvheysoon]

Yes. A Dragonborn is a Humanoid [dragonblood], not a Dragon.

This type of question is why we have the Simple Q and A thread, you know.:smallbiggrin:

[Dyrynify]

My concern was the text on Dragonborn:
Humanoid (dragonblood): Dragonborn are humanoids with the dragonblood subtype and any other subtypes they had before undergoing the Rite of Rebirth. For all effects related to race, a dragonborn is considered a dragon and a member of her original race.

Also: I am sorry if this is in the wrong area. If the mods want/need to move this, feel free.

[Invader]

Yes. A Dragonborn is a Humanoid [dragonblood], not a Dragon.

This type of question is why we have the Simple Q and A thread, you know.:smallbiggrin:


They are considered dragons
"For all effects relating to race a Dragonborn is considered a dragon."

[Invader]

And to answer your original question, I'd say no you wouldn't be allowed to be a dracolyte but if I was your DM I'd allow it because it's just a fluff reason and doesn't really effect anything mechanically.

[Cog]

Something like a strike from a dragonbane weapon would be an effect. Qualifying for a prestige class isn't an 'effect' in game terms. Dragonborn can qualify.

As an aside, not all Dragonborn are Humanoids. The sidebar that explains how to actually perform the ritual states that the creature's original type remains unchanged; the main text merely assumes a humanoid base for convenience.

[Invader]

Something like a strike from a dragonbane weapon would be an effect. Qualifying for a prestige class isn't an 'effect' in game terms. Dragonborn can qualify.


Effect isn't a game term to begin with so by your own definition you're wrong:smallconfused:

It makes no sense to be considered a dragon for some things but not others.

[VGLordR2]

Effect isn't a game term to begin with so by your own definition you're wrong:smallconfused:

It makes no sense to be considered a dragon for some things but not others.

Effect is not a game term, but it is a word in the English language. An effect is the result of an action. Qualifying for a Prestige Class is not an effect.

[Invader]

Effect is not a game term, but it is a word in the English language. An effect is the result of an action. Qualifying for a Prestige Class is not an effect.

That's not the only definition of effect.

You can also say an effect of being a dragon is that you're not allowed to enter a prestige class.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Effect isn't a game term to begin with so by your own definition you're wrong:smallconfused:

It makes no sense to be considered a dragon for some things but not others.

...So, how 'bout dem aasimar (and the other Outsider (Native))?

[Invader]

...So, how 'bout dem aasimar (and the other Outsider (Native))?

I'm not sure what your point is :smallconfused:

[killianh]

I'm not sure what your point is :smallconfused:

I think he was referring to this being similar to going back and forth with the type/subtype issues of native outsiders

[Kuulvheysoon]

Effect isn't a game term to begin with so by your own definition you're wrong:smallconfused:

It makes no sense to be considered a dragon for some things but not others.


I'm not sure what your point is :smallconfused:


I think he was referring to this being similar to going back and forth with the type/subtype issues of native outsiders

This is exactly what I was referring to.
Native Subtype

A subtype applied only to outsiders. These creatures have mortal ancestors or a strong connection to the Material Plane and can be raised, reincarnated, or resurrected just as other living creatures can be. Creatures with this subtype are native to the Material Plane (hence the subtype’s name). Unlike true outsiders, native outsiders need to eat and sleep.

Outsider (native) are treated as Outsiders for some things (Outsider bane weapons, for example), but not for others (can be raised, etc...). So there is precedence.

[Invader]

Pointing out something else that doesn't make sense doesn't make the original argument right and seeing as how it's not the exact same situation it doesn't neccesarily set any kind of precedent either.

[killianh]

Pointing out something else that doesn't make sense doesn't make the original argument right and seeing as how it's not the exact same situation it doesn't neccesarily set any kind of precedent either.

the Native subtype makes perfect sense and has the changes spelt out even.


DRAGONBLOOD SUBTYPE
If a race possesses the dragonblood subtype, it has a strong affinity to dragons—which means that spells, effects, powers,and abilities that affect or target dragons also affect it. The sub-type qualifies a creature to use magic items normally only usableby dragons, and qualifies the creature to take feats that have thesubtype as a prerequisite. The dragonblood subtype also makes creatures subject to harmful effects that affect dragons.The dragonblood subtype does not confer the dragon type or any traits associated with that type. For instance, it does notgive a creature frightful presence. Dragons automatically qualify for any classes, prestige classes, racial substitution levels, feats, powers, or spells that require the dragonblood subtype. Races presented in this book that have the dragonblood subtype include dragonborn, spellscale, kobold, and draconic creatures. Should a creature acquire the dragon type, it loses the dragonblood subtype.

That said you can by RAW and RAI take the class

[Invader]

I'd agree that by those rules, you could take the PrC but that being the case the description under Dragonborn is contradictory to that.