Anti Technology field.

[Hawkings]

So I suddenly had a crazy thought the other day, there's plenty of ways to counter magic but what about technology?

My DM friend I've played with for years always has a lot of technology in his games but since it's mostly homebrewed it's impossible to research any of it so it's been hell to play against.

I'm certain a homebrewed EMP field would work like an anti-magic field on certain types of technology but there has to be better solutions in the actual 3.5 books.

I don't know about everyone else but I've had to play against thermal-optics that ignored invisibility and hiding in shadows, robotic exoskeletons with chain-grenade launchers and Tesla coil defenses.


I haven't had much luck finding anything super effective to work against those types of things but I'm willing to bet many of the play grounders who are more clever than me have.

Since I couldn't find much about this topic I decided to make this thread for feedback and hopefully to help anyone that might be having a hard time fighting against technology in their games.

[HunterOfJello]

Taking out digital technology is viable, since that can be accomplished by technology we currently possess

Some sort of spell that creates powerful electomagnetic fields, but doesn't affect creatures could work.

[silverwolfer]

Fine level swarm wonderous items, that due the rust monster affect against anything that is electrical?

[Invader]

You'd almost have to define what technology you're trying to stop first and then come up with a spell or effect to stop it.

[silverwolfer]

So in the shadowrun settning you have 3 things to counter act tech


Overload - Basically short circuit the said item

Shape metal/heat metal ...... make it to hot to wear. or shape it so it becomes useless

Put a finger in their gun so it blows up on them




haha , but yeah i mean like heat stuff, throw a flash grenade or seed or caste a bright light spell?


BUT>>> BUT

I would say a druid with a pet rust monster is your best bet

[Hawkings]

You'd almost have to define what technology you're trying to stop first and then come up with a spell or effect to stop it.

You're right of course. My ultimate goal would be to figure out a way to cancel, destroy or shutdown advanced technology similar to an EMP blast; That being similar to what an AMF does to magic.

For weapons like guns there are already ways to counter ranged weapons like arrows, so guns probably work under the same rules since they're in the DMG.


So in the shadowrun settning you have 3 things to counter act tech


Overload - Basically short circuit the said item

Shape metal/heat metal ...... make it to hot to wear. or shape it so it becomes useless

Put a finger in their gun so it blows up on them




haha , but yeah i mean like heat stuff, throw a flash grenade or seed or caste a bright light spell?


BUT>>> BUT

I would say a druid with a pet rust monster is your best bet

I found Magnetism, Repel Metal or Stone, and rusting grasp in Oriental Adventures, but unless you're a druid/wu jen/metal domain cleric or happen to have a ton of money for scrolls those probably won't be very helpful.

But the idea of using magnetism and rusting grasp would be funny to pull everyone's weapons to yourself and destroy them; Might make a fun and terrifying BBEG.

[Flickerdart]

It isn't that hard for a wizard to engineer an atmospheric nuclear explosion, and the resulting blast will knock out anything more advanced than vacuum tubes.

[Hawkings]

It isn't that hard for a wizard to engineer an atmospheric nuclear explosion, and the resulting blast will knock out anything more advanced than vacuum tubes.

Well yeah a wizard can do anything science can and more, but it's about having ways of beating technology just like there are ways of beating magic; Although that usually involves also using magic lol.

[Alefiend]

A nuclear weapon's EMP might not be necessary. A sandstorm in a really dry environment could also do it if enough static is generated. Paul-Muad'Dib used this to good effect at the climax of Dune (the novel) to take down enemy shields (and presumably suspensor fields as well). It played havoc with radio communications too. We can assume that real-world unshielded electronic technology would also become pretty spotty.

Again, it's a matter of defining what "technology" you're trying to nullify. Things that rely on mechanical or chemical processes will be harder to shut down. If you are willing to allow a little fudging of the dimensional/planar nature of your game world, you can make like a prince of Amber and shift to a shadow where certain kinds of chemistry don't work.

[Reluctance]

I don't know about everyone else but I've had to play against thermal-optics that ignored invisibility and hiding in shadows, robotic exoskeletons with chain-grenade launchers and Tesla coil defenses.

Translation: **** you and your bag of win buttons. My fiat-based win buttons beat your rule-based win buttons.

If he tells good stories, having an attack that causes everything to stop working is just going to be a frustrating speedbump to the plot. Break individual items the same way you'd break anything else.

If he uses super-tech as his unbeatable trump card, everything will just be hardened against EMPs.

[pwykersotz]

You mean like a dampening field from Star Trek? That would suppress all electrical devices while inside the field, but not destroy them, just like AMF.

[ericgrau]

You'd probably want to stick an AC current through coils surrounding a piece of iron. This is very simple to make, though time consuming to wind the coils. Or expensive to buy a large premade coil, but the nice thing is you could jimmy an existing coil from a large electromagnet or AC motor. The main obstacle is that it would be highly power intensive requiring a portable generator with an iron housing around its own electric motor. It would also have a very short range since it takes a dramatic increase in power to extend the range much. Low current devices such as digital electronics would be far more vulnerable than high current devices such as electric motors and lights. For simplicity you might say anything electric but not electronic is immune.

An easier to carry option would be to use explosives to generate a short burst of electricity for a brief EMP burst rather than a continuous field. You can also use much smaller coils since it's harder to overheat them in a fraction of a second. Basically you get an EMP grenade.

It's possible and even likely that it may disrupt signals without permanently destroying a device. But anything brought too close to the center could be fried instead.

Brief googling says the electric effects on signals in living things are negligible. It's more likely to kill living things by internal electric heating which would require a powerful field and close proximity to it. I'd handwave it and make living things immune just like electric things, though in both cases an extremely strong field or big EMP bomb could do damage. Also probably not a good idea to be next to a field for hundreds of hours of adventuring rather than a few rounds a day, wouldn't be surprised if it caused cancer or something.

[Hawkings]

Translation: **** you and your bag of win buttons. My fiat-based win buttons beat your rule-based win buttons.

If he tells good stories, having an attack that causes everything to stop working is just going to be a frustrating speedbump to the plot. Break individual items the same way you'd break anything else.

If he uses super-tech as his unbeatable trump card, everything will just be hardened against EMPs.

I hadn't thought of it that way and you have a good point. Still, it would be great to have an option not just for myself but for anyone in a technology filled world. Also this game is great because you have a plethora of options regarding anything, need to fight undead? there's spells, classes and items for that. Or maybe it's wizards, melee tanks, monstrous creatures, planes, gods, whatever the DM throws against you there is something to use against it even if it's not something your character can do, why should technology be the exception. Heck even the Tarrasque has a way to beat it, though oddly specific and extremely difficult.


You mean like a dampening field from Star Trek? That would suppress all electrical devices while inside the field, but not destroy them, just like AMF.

Yes, exactly the idea.


You'd probably want to stick an AC current through coils surrounding a piece of iron. It would be highly power intensive requiring a portable generator with an iron housing around its own electric motor. It would also have a very short range since it takes a dramatic increase in power to extend the range much. Low current devices such as digital electronics would be far more vulnerable than high current devices such as electric motors and lights. For simplicity you might say anything electric but not electronic is immune.

That's a really good idea, use a magical powering gem or something instead of a generator as the power source and it'd be a nice staff of anti-technology; I wonder what the craft check would be on an item like that.

[demigodus]

but since it's mostly homebrewed it's impossible to research any of it so it's been hell to play against.

Scrying + Teleport + Enchantment school meets researchers, politicians, CEOs, and just about anyone who is familiar with this technology. Basically, get a list of available technologies from him, by hunting down, brain washing, and questioning anyone knowledgeable about them if necessary.

Then prove that whether magic beats science or not doesn't matter, since Magic + Science beats Science. "Oh, you are walking around in a robotic exoskeleton? Same for me. Except I rewrite reality by sneezing in case I get bored of beating people dead."


I don't know about everyone else but I've had to play against thermal-optics that ignored invisibility and hiding in shadows, robotic exoskeletons with chain-grenade launchers and Tesla coil defenses.

There doesn't tend to be a very specific definition of technology that requires it to contain some clear trait. If you are trying to use science to counter science, you can either bull **** it, or counter them one at a time.

Thermal-optics: use a fireball. If it is sensitive enough to distinguish your body from the surroundings based on a temperature difference that is likely, around 20C, guess how bright a sphere of plasma is? (Around 100x as much brighter then you, as you are brighter then the ground). Or, well, any fire really. Hit them with it. Now your opponent SHOULD be completely blinded, and that piece of thermal-optics should be suffering from non-functionality.

Robotic Exoskeletons: Salt water does wonders. Or, if you can, carry around a strong magnet. And throw it at the robot. You know how a magnet can wipe a hard drive? Well, here, the magnet would be causing random commands to be sent through out the exoskeleton. Commands that the human body inside may not be comfortable with.

Chain-grenade launcher: Wind wall. Make the grenades bounce back on him. Although, this weapon is either massive, or contains a good dosage of magic.

Tesla Coil Defense: The range is going to be proportional to the charge build up here. And I think the conductivity of the target, but not sure, and doesn't matter for this. Just get some copper coins, throw them at the device. It will blast the coins, and lose some energy. So the range is temporarily decreased. If you keep throwing more coins at it while walking, you should be able to walk around without ever being inside of the thing's decreased range.

[TuggyNE]

My DM friend I've played with for years always has a lot of technology in his games but since it's mostly homebrewed it's impossible to research any of it so it's been hell to play against.

I'm certain a homebrewed EMP field would work like an anti-magic field on certain types of technology but there has to be better solutions in the actual 3.5 books.

Mostly, your countermeasures are going to be homebrewed themselves — why (or how) would the official books contain lots of things to counter a heavily homebrewed subsystem with its own rules? And as Reluctance said, if the DM wants unbeatable fiat tech, he'll be able to make it so.

The best approach might be to politely discuss this with your DM at some time between game sessions, and ask for better checks and balances. Don't expect a win button of your own, of course; even antimagic field can be bypassed by invoke magic, instantaneous spells from outside, and so on. If you need to, ask the Playground for help convincing him of this.


Robotic Exoskeletons: Salt water does wonders. Or, if you can, carry around a strong magnet. And throw it at the robot. You know how a magnet can wipe a hard drive? Well, here, the magnet would be causing random commands to be sent through out the exoskeleton.

This is an an urban legend; magnets really don't affect hard drives significantly. You need a powerful alternating field to have any effect on the data; uniform magnetism at most alters the level of ones and zeros* by the same amount.

Worse, magnets do nothing at all to affect most circuitry, of nearly any variety, for much the same reasons. Again, alternating fields, in sufficient strength, work (look up the principles of induction, if you want), but fixed fields do very little. However, for affecting a combat-capable robot at range, you'll probably have to resort to some sort of nuclear device; not much else is strong enough and portable enough.

*It's a little more complicated than that, but there's no need to go into the details of RLL schemes, or even ECC.

[Hawkings]

Mostly, your countermeasures are going to be homebrewed themselves — why (or how) would the official books contain lots of things to counter a heavily homebrewed subsystem with its own rules? And as Reluctance said, if the DM wants unbeatable fiat tech, he'll be able to make it so.

The best approach might be to politely discuss this with your DM at some time between game sessions, and ask for better checks and balances. Don't expect a win button of your own, of course; even antimagic field can be bypassed by invoke magic, instantaneous spells from outside, and so on. If you need to, ask the Playground for help convincing him of this.


That's a really good point, maybe what I was thinking was the wrong idea to begin with, thanks for the advice.

[Milo v3]

There is the Electromagnetic Pulse spell from d20 Modern.


Electromagnetic Pulse
Evocation [Electricity]

Level: Arcane 3; Components: V, S; Casting Time: Attack action; Range: Short (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels); Area: 20-ft. burst; Duration: Instantaneous; Saving Throw: Will negates (object); Spell Resistance: Yes (object)

When you cast electromagnetic pulse, you send a powerful burst of energy that ruins electronic circuitry within the spell’s area. Any computer, telephone, television, or other device with a computer processor inside ceases to function immediately, and the contents of hard drives and other storage media are scrambled.

The electromagnetic pulse affects only devices with extensive circuitry, not everything that uses electricity. Ordinarily the lights stay on, although their electronic switches might not function. Automobiles continue to run, although their engines will run more roughly without electronic guidance. Most cars manufactured after the 1980s won’t start after an electromagnetic pulse because they have electronic ignition systems.

Devices affected by an electromagnetic pulse can be fixed according to the following table.

Repair Task (Example) Relevant Skill Purchase DC Repair DC Time
Simple processors (cars, elevator controls) Repair 7 15 10 min.
Complex processors (computers, home theaters) Repair 10 20 1 hr.
Data recovery (scrambled hard drive) Computer Use 4 25 2 hr.

You can jury-rig repairs more quickly and cheaply, but the repairs may not last. See the description of the Repair skill for details.

Some military gear is immune to energy effects such as electromagnetic pulse thanks to a process called tempest hardening. Tempest hardening adds +1 to the purchase DC of an item and makes it Restricted (+2).

[hoverfrog]

Don't destroy the technology. Kill the enemy and steal it for yourself. The DM will quickly make available anti-tech weapons when you start using too.

[roguemetal]

If the technology is magical you can dispel it.

If the technology is non-magical you can shatter/sunder/disintegrate it.

[Urpriest]

If your DM is using homebrewed advanced tech in D&D then he needs to homebrew countermeasures too. If your character would reasonably know about such things, I'd ask him, possibly with an appropriate Knowledge check attached.

[Arbane]

Hm...

Casting Protection from Energy (Fire) on something that's normally flammable should stop it from igniting, right? (Like gunpowder? :smallbiggrin:)

What happens to an electronic device if you cast Protection from Energy (Electricity) on it?

[demigodus]

Protection from energy only stops damage. It would stop electrical appliances from the dangers of being overloaded most likely (why yes, I DID overclock this PC to the point that it uses 10,000 Watts of power, WITHOUT a cooling system. Why do you ask?). Shouldn't stop them from functioning.

[Arbane]

Protection from energy only stops damage. It would stop electrical appliances from the dangers of being overloaded most likely (why yes, I DID overclock this PC to the point that it uses 10,000 Watts of power, WITHOUT a cooling system. Why do you ask?). Shouldn't stop them from functioning.

I'd argue that's debatable entirely on _how_ Protection from (Electricity) 'stops damage'. Does it make the target nonconductive, superconductive, or just immune to damage in some metaphysical sense?

If I cast Protection from (Fire) on the gasoline in a car, the car won't start until it wears off, right?

If I made a hamburger and cast Prot (Acid) on it, how bad a case of indigestion would it give someone? But now I'm getting even sillier....

[roguemetal]

The protection spells are buffers. It protects the target from a certain amount of damage caused by a specific source. Doesn't prevent fire from getting on you, just stops it from harming you. Plus I don't think there's an energy protection spell that can target an inanimate object.

But for the other things... what about using psionics or mental abilities?
Don't think they can use thermal to see you if they don't THINK you're there.

[Snowbluff]

If they have pilots, Brilliant Energy Weapons and Wraith Strike will kill pilots, no effort needed. They ignore armor and Brilliant Energy Weapons explicitly ignore everything but flesh. Sure, you won't take out their tech, but if it's not a robot, it becomes useless.

Also, Rust Dragons. They have rusting breath, and a druid with Draconic Dragonshape, or another Caster with Draconic Polymorph/Polymorph + PrC/Shapechange will make a mockery out of any tech.

EDIT: The cold subtype (As the Frost, PHBII) might help with thermal vision (Invisibility does say invisible, so thermals shouldn't work regardless). Also, DR/Magic is a great way to mess with their weapons.

[Doorhandle]

Consider using a repel metal or stone spell? (http://www.pathfinder-srd.nl/wiki/Repel_Metal_or_Stone_(Spell))

Stone shape would also work.

[Gimur]

A strong enough magnetic field should screw with pretty much any electrical devices, if not destroying them. An exposure to high current/voltage electricity would almost definitely destroy tech on the personal level.

Trouble comes when you get to the levels of 'siege weapon' sized tech. Stuff that's designed to handle hundreds of thousands of volts, and a ridiculous amperage as well. Then, you'd have to turn to something like a direct lightning strike for destruction.. Though, nothing's wrong with a little dismantling to just turn it off for a while.

A universal "off" button would be something like a sandstorm, though. Get some way to cause connections to physically short out, and that tech is done for. Repairing something like that is a nightmare. :smalleek: So many things can be wrong with it, and you have to check every single component...