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animewatcha
2012-07-31, 11:18 PM
Drags mags okay. Drag comp okay. No ToB. No psionics. No incarnum. Dungeon mag okay once I bring pdfs over. Wotc books.

2 Levels of LG paladin for divine grace. Usage of instill suggestion via Bluff skill ( not spellcasting; this is mainly for other class levels ). What can a paladin do via the bluff skill ( non-epic usage ) without violating code / changing alignment. What kind of 'suggestion' can be instilled without violating code / changing alignement?

Also, modifiers for charisma. No spells, just worn items. Shield, yes. Armor no, unless armor enhancement can be placed on another slot somehow. I know of the enhancement bonus to charisma, inherent, and found a competence. Where can be found in 3.0 or 3.5 for circumstance modifier, alchemical, insight, luck, morale, and sacred modifier.

If not, an explicit item, then perhaps a pricing guide for per point of bonus?

Kelb_Panthera
2012-08-01, 02:07 AM
As long as the suggestion made wouldn't require the victim to do something that would be a violation of the paladin's code, I think you're okay. For that matter, bluff =/= lie. Almost all uses of bluff do involve skirting the truth, rather than being forthright and honest, but putting foward falsehoods isn't necessarily evil, and thus isn't automatically fall-worthy.

TLDR: ask your DM. There's no clear-cut RAW on the matter.

vrigar
2012-08-01, 02:14 AM
Maybe I'm old fashioned but for me a paladin using bluff is almost a contradiction in terms. Exact and absolute truth is more fitting a paladin.
As for RAW the paladin Code of Conduct explicitly states that a paladin shouldn't lie but that's up to your DM.

Kelb_Panthera
2012-08-01, 02:24 AM
Maybe I'm old fashioned but for me a paladin using bluff is almost a contradiction in terms. Exact and absolute truth is more fitting a paladin.
As for RAW the paladin Code of Conduct explicitly states that a paladin shouldn't lie but that's up to your DM.

Because of the complexity of the english language, it's often possible to tell exactly the truth, but tell it in a way that is deliberately misleading. Lawyers do it everyday. There's also simply refusing to tell the truth, and feinting in combat.

To completely tie a paladin's hands when it comes to deception, makes it impossible for a paladin to function in anything even remotely political. It can often make simple subtlety difficult.

If your idea of a paladin is someone that never even considers a falshood, and is forthright and honest at all times, you're free to play it that way, but some of us like a bit more complexity in our characters.

Psyren
2012-08-01, 08:10 AM
Gray Guard allows your Paladin to lie his ass off if he needs to. They even get Bluff as a class skill.

Telonius
2012-08-01, 08:35 AM
Bluff is not just about lying. Feinting, delivering secret messages, concealing intentions, gaining control over your own reactions to things, even resisting interrogation by an enemy; all of these things could be plausible Bluff checks.

Put another way: a Paladin is not required to be terrible at poker.

Suggestion is a bit trickier, and it really hinges on how your DM and group see the "dignity of sentient beings" clause of "Good vs Evil." Can Suggestion be a violation of that dignity? If so, under what circumstances? If it's an Evil act, and a Paladin can't do it without falling.

A Paladin of Freedom would have a lot more problems with the spell/ability.

Psyren
2012-08-01, 09:50 AM
Compulsions by good characters are allowable, per BoED. (Rule of thumb: If Exalted characters can get away with it, so can Paladins.) There is simply a higher responsibility on the "caster" to ensure the target is not visited with undue harm, and they cannot be asked to commit evil acts themselves.

Fouredged Sword
2012-08-01, 08:12 PM
Paladin x / bard 1 / marshal 1 / grey guard. Get skill focus bluff, cha aura, persuasive, and any other low hanging fruit. A set of items to boost cha/bluff are also useful. There is a feat that lets you mix paladin and bard.

Cha to bluff x2, 3+level ranks, +5 feats, +6 item... 6th level or so...

10 + 9 + 5 + 6 = +20 to bluff rolls. Get a wand (or scrolls) of glibness for an additional +30 when the situation calls for it. You have matched the modifier required to instill a suggestion in the target. Now you just have to beet their sense motive roll with a raw d20 roll.