[PF] Optimizing a poisoner to be effective against things immune to poison?

[RndmNumGen]

I'm planning on making a Ninja with two levels of Bard[Detective] thrown in to grab spells and Trapfinding. Most of my build revolves around throwing multiple poisoned shuriken, but there is of course the problem of dealing with monsters immune to poison(or ones that just have absurdly high fort saves). Sneak Attack is an option against some(like Undead) but not others(such as Elementals, Incorporeals and Oozes).

I suppose in general, I'm just looking for more tricks I can do with this character so while I'm really good with poisoning, I'm not a one-trick pony. Right now most of my resources devoted to the poisoning is:

Levels(in Ninja, for the Ki points)
Bard/UMD(for casting Abundant Ammunition; Bard is better because there is no failure chance)
GP(for the initial cost of most poisons. )

but I'm pretty open on feats/traits/skills. Anything in particular that further debilitates enemies would be cool, stacking with the poison theme.

[Keneth]

Elementals, Oozes, and Incorporeal creatures are the bane of all rogue-ish characters. You could get scrolls or wands but in cases like that it's better if you play a support role and let a different party member take care of business.

[Bloodgruve]

You could look at Psion Shaper or Ardent for Psionic Minor Creation for your poisons. Its a 1PP manifestation and 1hr/lvl which is pretty cheap. I'd look at UMD to fill the gaps when you can't poison.

Blood~

[RndmNumGen]

Elementals, Oozes, and Incorporeal creatures are the bane of all rogue-ish characters. You could get scrolls or wands but in cases like that it's better if you play a support role and let a different party member take care of business.

How would I support them in this situation? Is there any specific ability or feat chain I can go towards for this?

[Keneth]

Depends on your party composition, really. I usually find that I become the "magic item guy" when my rogue characters can't backstab or use skills, and I carry around scrolls of resist energy just for such cases. You can also aid others in battle for minor bonuses, or to get out of grapple. Some teamwork feats may also be nice if other party members can afford them. Being good at (or helping others be good at) combat maneuvers can go a long way toward some nice mundane battlefield control (reposition and dirty trick can be quite effective).

[RndmNumGen]

Depends on your party composition, really. I usually find that I become the "magic item guy" when my rogue characters can't backstab or use skills, and I carry around scrolls of resist energy just for such cases. You can also aid others in battle for minor bonuses, or to get out of grapple. Some teamwork feats may also be nice if other party members can afford them. Being good at (or helping others be good at) combat maneuvers can go a long way toward some nice mundane battlefield control (reposition and dirty trick can be quite effective).

I looked at Improved Dirty Trick, but it requires Combat Expertise and INT is my dump star with this character. Are there any other good combat maneuvers that don't require Combat Expertise?

[Akal Saris]

Well, one thing I would do is look for ways to apply sickened and shaken to most opponents. That would be -4 to saves vs. the poisons and -4 to attacks as well. Bard spells and feats that add a demoralize check onto attacks are possible ways to get those conditions.

Otherwise I'd take advantage of UMD to use wands of a few 1st - 3rd level buff spells for the party, like Haste and whatnot. Oozes are generally not a big threat to a party, thankfully, but incorporeal creatures and elementals can be. Some scrolls/wands of resist energy are useful (Rangers get it as a L1 spell you can use UMD for), while mage armor would give +4 AC to certain allies against incorporeal foes, which is useful if the ally is a fighter or druid, for example. Protection from Evil is another good low level spell against most incorporeal foes.

Otherwise there is always flanking + aid another + maintaining bard song for +5 to hit/+1 to dmg for one ally and +1/+1 for others.

[RndmNumGen]

Hmm... Shakened is very do-able. It shouldn't be hard to get a good Intimidate check, and I may be able to pick up a wand of Burning Invective later on. The only way I know to get Sickened without a save(which would be low coming from a magic item) is the Thug archtype for rogue, which I can't take because it overlaps with Ninja.

[Varil]

Aren't most things that are immune to sneak attacks also immune to sicken/shaken, though?

You could look into stuff like Truedeath weapons crystals from MIC to lessen how often you're unable to use your best combat feature. I think there's one for constructs, too. Can't think of anything for oozes or plants, but I may just be overlooking them.

[deuxhero]

If they aren't immune to Polymorph, Baneful Polymorph I think can make things no longer immune to poison, but then they are dead anyways.

[Keneth]

Are there any other good combat maneuvers that don't require Combat Expertise?
Improved combat maneuvers are divided between strength and intelligence, so I guess not. :smallsmile:

[Killer Angel]

If it's immune to poison, you cannot poison it. Simple as that.

So, you must find something else that can act as a poison, but it isn't.
This can be done together with your DM.

Example: in the nine hells (if I recall correctly, in the Maladomini layer), there's a place where demons attend to whole lakes of bile filled with demonic bacteria, that they use for biological warfare. Sample of those deadly substances can be sold / given, sometimes, also to valuable servants (or cultists) in the Prime.

And so on...