Atlatl exploits.

[Kelb_Panthera]

I was going through my copy of sandstorm again, when I noticed this little gem of a weapon. At least I -think- it may be a gem. The text for the weapon seems to indicate that it counts as both a thrown and a projectile weapon simultaneously.

That's why I'm making this thread. I want to get some other opinions on whether I'm reading that right, and if I am, to see how it might be exploited.

I.e. having a bloodstorm blade that can make use of manyshot.

[MrBanana]

Well, IRL it's a spear thrown from a spear thrower, so it makes sense to be both.

[Agent 451]

It's basically a sucktastic bow...for spears.

[Kelb_Panthera]

It's basically a sucktastic bow...for spears.

But I can't use brutal throw, or power throw with a bow, and I can't put returning on arrows.

Compared to a thrown spear, I can use manyshot or ranged pin/sunder/disarm. They're not great options but I couldn't normally choose them if I wasn't wielding a bow. (I think) Edit: okay, bad example, but you get the idea.

The atlatl spears aren't listed as ammo, they're listed as individualy sold ranged weapons meaning that they're reusable. No worry about running out of ammo as long as I have enough to last through the fight I'm in.

I just think there's gotta be some way to make blending archery with thrown weapon combat, at least interesting, if not exceedingly over-powered.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

But I can't use brutal throw, or power throw with a bow, and I can't put returning on arrows.

Compared to a thrown spear, I can use manyshot or ranged pin/sunder/disarm. They're not great options but I couldn't normally choose them if I wasn't wielding a bow. (I think) Edit: okay, bad example, but you get the idea.

[The atlatl spears aren't listed as ammo, they're listed as individualy sold ranged weapons meaning that they're reusable. No worry about running out of ammo as long as I have enough to last through the fight I'm in.

I just think there's gotta be some way to make blending archery with thrown weapon combat, at least interesting, if not exceedingly over-powered.

It is an odd niche. Sadly, Returning as a property is pales compared to the Bloodstorm Blade's schtick. Although that's comparing a prestige class level versus an odd weapon. Shame it isn't also a melee weapon so you could combine master thrower and BSB, although, you always have daggers for that.

[Togath]

The weapons fired by an atlatl are spears, which are melee(at least if I remember right), in addition, the bloodstormblade can use throwing weapons just as well as melee weapons.

[Kelb_Panthera]

The weapons fired by an atlatl are spears, which are melee(at least if I remember right), in addition, the bloodstormblade can use throwing weapons just as well as melee weapons.

Unfortunately, no. Atlatl spears are listed right next to the atlatl itself in sandstorm. They're an exotic ranged weapon with no range-increment or damage figure independent of the atlatl itself. The fact that they're priced individually, does mean that they're don't count as ammo, for determining enhancements or whether they break on a hit, though.

It's a mechanically unique weapon. I was really hoping to get some more input on this. :smallfrown:

Maybe the serious optimizers are still examining it........ maybe?

[Agent 451]

But I can't use brutal throw...

That's my bad, I typed bow instead of sling. You can use the throwing feats with it, and likely your strength mod to damage. Still seems to me that it gets less love than even the sling does, which makes me sad considering how kickass they are in RL.

I could have sworn that I saw atlatl spears listed as atlatl darts in Frostburn, but I couldn't see them in there.

edit: It was Dragon 331 (pg 84) that I saw some other atlatl details in.

edit 2:
Unfortunately, no. Atlatl spears are listed right next to the atlatl itself in sandstorm. They're an exotic ranged weapon with no range-increment or damage figure independent of the atlatl itself. The fact that they're priced individually, does mean that they're don't count as ammo, for determining enhancements or whether they break on a hit, though.

I don't think this is an issue. They are listed underneath the atlatl as the preferred projectile so I would assume they should be treated as ammunition, regardless of of the fact that you buy them individually (unless there is a rule somewhere contrary to this which I don't know about?).

[Kelb_Panthera]

That's my bad, I typed bow instead of sling. You can use the throwing feats with it, and likely your strength mod to damage. Still seems to me that it gets less love than even the sling does, which makes me sad considering how kickass they are in RL.

I could have sworn that I saw atlatl spears listed as atlatl darts in Frostburn, but I couldn't see them in there.

edit: It was Dragon 331 (pg 84) that I saw some other atlatl details in.

edit 2:

I don't think this is an issue. They are listed underneath the atlatl as the preferred projectile so I would assume they should be treated as ammunition, regardless of of the fact that you buy them individually (unless there is a rule somewhere contrary to this which I don't know about?).

Unfortunately, it's ambiguous. I can see arguments for treating the spears either way. That's not really the primary point though. I was hoping for something more creative than BSB + archery feats. I guess maybe I -did- overestimate how useful this is if nobody has any other suggestions.

[VGLordR2]

Manyshot wouldn't work with an Atlatl, as Manyshot only works with arrows.

[Campbellk8105]

I havent looked at the atlatl spears but IRL, the "spears" launched by them aren't exactly spears. They aren't near thick enough to be a spear, but they are bigger than arrows.

Just saying to add insight to the discussion of if it should be ammo or not.