PDA

View Full Version : Testing the difficulty of a riddle



Madeiner
2012-08-02, 03:23 PM
Hi there :)
I have prepared (actually, borrowed from a videogame) a riddle for a player of mine.

He has found 4 scrolls, each with a single phrase.
Each scroll is a clue as to the item to be put in an alcove.
Four items together are the key to a portal (Planescape setting).

These are the clues:
NOTE: each of the clues is a separate object.
The Spire is a mountain, at the top of which is said to be Sigil, the city of doors.
To solve the last riddle, you need to know about Sigil and the workings of the portals.


"Game's Bane, with head of steel"
"Tear of the Land"
"Severed Dread"
"Unraveller of Mysteries at the top of the Spire"

Can you find the solution? Do you think these clues are too vague/hard, or too simple or easy?

(if you are going to answer the riddle, please do in spoilers so that others can judge before knowing the answer)

Kuma Kode
2012-08-02, 03:31 PM
Actually looked up the game. You may want to indicate somehow that each of these things is a DIFFERENT OBJECT. When combined it sounds fairly nonsensical and made me think it was some kind of spear (spire for its shape, tear of the land for the metal head, head of steel also indicates that).

Saph
2012-08-02, 03:41 PM
They sound horribly vague. I have no idea what any of those could be. Don't think I'd have any chance of solving that (and I'm one of those players who actually likes riddles/puzzles).

I mean, "Severed Dread?" "Tear of the Land?" Those could be any of about a million things, depending on the mythology of the setting. "Unraveller of Mysteries at the top of the Spire" at least sounds specific, but since I have no idea what the "Spire" is, there's no way I could guess it.

Madeiner
2012-08-02, 03:41 PM
Thanks :) I added that to the OP. I have told the players that each scroll is a clue for a different object

Tyndmyr
2012-08-02, 03:53 PM
They sound remarkably vague/generic. Tear of the land? Wait, like a teardrop, or the land is torn, or what?

Unraveller of Mysteries, for instance, is....sketchy. Sure, I get the "top of the spire" part, easy day. But there are a LOT of things in planescape that can unravel mysteries. And sigil is a big place.

Unless you've done some very significantly foreshadowing for these items, so that your player immediately go "oh, those plot relevant macguffins we keep dealing with", this is likely to result in blank stairs.

Madeiner
2012-08-02, 04:18 PM
Tear of the land? Wait, like a teardrop, or the land is torn, or what?


That's actually part of the riddle. However, since we are playing in a different language, that "tear" part got lost in translation, and it is actually "fragment of the land" (which is probably also easier)

The New Bruceski
2012-08-02, 04:20 PM
Tear of the land would probably be seawater. I'm stumped on the rest.

EDIT: or springwater, but tears are salty.

Yukitsu
2012-08-02, 04:53 PM
I'd class the riddle as non-sense and move on with life.

killem2
2012-08-02, 05:19 PM
My input

Tear could also mean chasm, gorge, canyon.

over all hard to judge, since we don't know the rest of the adventure.

huttj509
2012-08-02, 05:37 PM
It worked well in Legend of Grimrock because of the limited items you could pick up and use.

I think in an open-style RPG it's far to vague.

Another factor is time. For Grimrock you're assumed, nay expected to be willing to think about a puzzle for hours (and then try to remember the path for when you go back through the room, should have made a teleporter map), possibly backtracking a few floors to get that item you had left on a switch without carrying spares due to weight.

For an in-person game these assumptions are not really valid.

Answers spoilered for those wondering:


Tear of the Land: Rock
Game's bane with head of steel: Arrow
Severed dread: Skull (only thing you can pick up that close to fits, still caused me a while to get that one)
Unraveler of Mysteries: Key (top of the spire seems to be added as an additional clue since sigil is the city of doors)

Ashdate
2012-08-02, 05:42 PM
Maybe have a small chest of possible items nearby to limit the options?

Madeiner
2012-08-02, 05:42 PM
Hey, looks like the riddle is pretty difficult for most of you guys. I will find a way to make it easier seeing as everybody up to now wasn't able to answer it.

Was thinking of showing all of the clues in a game-day, without giving them much attention, then presenting some sort of oracle that will say that all the items have been already witness by the character that day.

However, the player just sent an email with two of the answers, both correct.

For anyone wondering, i will spoilers the answers now:

"Game's Bane, with head of steel" - an arrowhead (guessed by the player)
"Tear of the Land" - a rock, or saltwater, or a bit of grass, etc (guessed by the player)
"Severed Dread" - a head of a dead man, or undead creature, or anything fearful enough and that has been severed
"Unraveller of Mysteries at the top of the Spire" - any key (mundane or a portal key). This requires the knowledge of Sigil portals, each of them requiring some sort of key.

In any case, being this Planescape, any item that responds favourably to the clue is always accepted, so far as one is absolutely convinced that it is the right item.


If you still want to give advice, it is very appreciated!

EDIT: Yes, in grimrock it was much easier because of the limited items. That's why i wanted to test the riddle with you guys, to understand if it was feasible or not with unlimited items. However, the player is not expected to give an answer instantly. He can think about it, seeing it is for a personal sidequest, and diviners and oracles are always available

QuidEst
2012-08-02, 11:45 PM
Well, my guesses…


"Game's Bane, with head of steel"
Arrow or spear, not clear which. And there are a lot of both.

"Tear of the Land"
Canyon, crevice, maybe a cave, but that's stretching it. Although the "fragment" translation makes it much easier. (Rock)

"Severed Dread"
Cut fear?

"Unraveller of Mysteries at the top of the Spire"
Yeah, I'm picturing this guy:
http://www.johnhartstudios.com/bc/strips/2011/march/bc032911zdc.jpg


So I would say no on the last two. Those aren't really reasonable riddles to stick somebody with. =/

Deophaun
2012-08-03, 12:23 AM
I would say they're vague to the point where, even if I were to guess the correct answer, I wouldn't feel satisfaction from it. A good puzzle has at least one eureka moment that leads to the solution. This doesn't have any and it does feel very adventure-gamey in terms of "let's go through our inventory and rub every item we have against the flashing object to see which one works."

That you're willing to change the solution on the fly based on what the players come up with is a good mitigating factor. It avoids turning into the ever-popular game of "Guess What the DM is Thinking," and I would recommend you incorporate some clues as to the faith-based nature of the solutions (it would provide an opportunity for the eureka moment).

elizasteave
2012-08-03, 12:52 AM
I have always been worst at solving these kinds of things and I don't have any options to get it right. Well, regarding the difficulty of a riddle I guess "Unraveller of Mysteries at the top of the Spire" may be the answer, but just having the vague idea for this thing.

Cespenar
2012-08-03, 01:21 AM
I've played the video game in question, and I would never have gotten the last two right if it weren't for the limited items. You may consider changing them, as both of them are much too vague for comfort. The first two, however, I thought were clever.