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View Full Version : Is there a Bard without spellcasting?



Fruchtkracher
2012-08-02, 06:14 PM
I'm sorry if this was asked before, but the search funcion is totally dead on me...
Is there a variant (official or homebrew) that exchanges a bard's spellcasting for more mundane stuff?

If that is not the case, what would an acceptable substitution be for it? I'm wondering about how a class could look like with all the bardic music and skill abilities, but with a low Base Attack Bonus and without the Spells (though I know that the musical aspect is pretty magical on its own, I'd like to keep it.)

While I figure this variant would be utterly useless in a fight short of singing, I'd like to have just that, with an increased focus on the skill-monkey and travelling aspects.

My first thoughts would be to:
- increase the amount of skill points to 8/level, as a rogue
- evasion, uncanny dodge and the improved versions thereof
- trapfinding somewhere around 3rd level
- rogue talents as rogue
- +10 ft. movement speed at second level, as well as every 6 level thereafter
- all good saves
- a bonus feat at first level and every five levels thereafter, restricted to skill boni, defensive abilities, bardic music and traveling.
- perhaps a floating feat at 7th level, and another one at 15th?
-another use of bardic music per day

would this be over the top? Or other suggestions?

Chromascope3D
2012-08-02, 06:22 PM
I don't think there is, no. Don't take my word for it, though. The bard was always intended to be a casting class, just with other stuff added in to make him a good jack-of-all-trades. You can get away with spell-less rangers and paladins. (There's a spell-less ranger archetype in Pathfinder) But those are combat classes at heart, while the bard isn't.

Zale
2012-08-02, 06:43 PM
There's the Conductor Bard (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=201346).

DonQuixote
2012-08-02, 07:27 PM
There's also my bard (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=437.0).

Network
2012-08-02, 08:10 PM
My first though as I was reading : ok, I will see what it would look like. As I was reading the abilities, it seemed good, but I see no interest in a bard able to move faster. Bonus feats seem too much, as well as a good Fortitude and a bonus use of Bardic Music. All of those thing doesn't make sense with the class : these class features look like ass pulls for me.

Fruchtkracher
2012-08-02, 08:26 PM
There's also my bard (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=437.0).

This looks with a few tweaks here and there (I will stick to reducing BAB in exchange for the rogue talents, evasion and uncanny dodge) perfect. Hope you don't mind if I use it?


My first though as I was reading : ok, I will see what it would look like. As I was reading the abilities, it seemed good, but I see no interest in a bard able to move faster. Bonus feats seem too much, as well as a good Fortitude and a bonus use of Bardic Music. All of those thing doesn't make sense with the class : these class features look like ass pulls for me.

Like I said, "first thoughts". More bardic music-uses and the quite specific feats are mainly to represent the focus the bard can now put on music and the whole skill-stuff, now with the spellcasting AND the fighting eliminated.

Though while I would have said that in different words the increased speed is probably an "ass pull". Though I might keep it at a reduced rate, since most clichee bards do seem to gain quite a bit experience in running, sooner or later :smallconfused:

The good Fortitude save and the floating feet albeit I agree by now, are unnecessary.

DonQuixote
2012-08-02, 08:53 PM
This looks with a few tweaks here and there (I will stick to reducing BAB in exchange for the rogue talents, evasion and uncanny dodge) perfect. Hope you don't mind if I use it?

Of course I don't mind if you use it. I will say, though, that I don't really understand the "lower base attack bonus in exchange for rogue talents" idea. You're making it a worse fighter...in order to give it different fighting capabilities? Also, bear in mind that a wandering bard is going to have to be able to defend himself from roaming beasts.

JetThomasBoat
2012-08-02, 10:13 PM
If you did give it any significant number of bonus feats, I would say restrict them to bardic music type feats.

toapat
2012-08-03, 12:32 AM
if i had ever finished my Dovahkiin class, i would have just pointed at that, as part of my concept was taking the dragon shouts to the most extreme.

a quick perusal of the Bard Handbook (http://dictummortuum.blogspot.com/2011/08/bards-handbook.html) fails to turn up any spellless bard though.

Fruchtkracher
2012-08-03, 01:00 AM
Of course I don't mind if you use it. I will say, though, that I don't really understand the "lower base attack bonus in exchange for rogue talents" idea. You're making it a worse fighter...in order to give it different fighting capabilities? Also, bear in mind that a wandering bard is going to have to be able to defend himself from roaming beasts.


Point taken. I'll leave the BAB at medium, and just give it rogue talents every 3 levels. Simply because I like them, and the majority of them is not even combat-based. Though I should have probably mentioned I meant the Pathfinder rogue talents with that, not the special abilities rogue's in 3.5 use (thought that was at about the same, just noticed I was wrong about that.



If you did give it any significant number of bonus feats, I would say restrict them to bardic music type feats.

Well yes, but there are only so many bardic music feats, and it's not like the skill feats are overpowered.

Well, thank you guys, this at about helped me enough to edit DonQuixote's Class enough for my tastes. :smallredface: