D&D Wiki, why all the hate? [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

Hiro Protagonest

2012-08-02, 10:01 PM

A) You said it yourself, it has some good stuff. As in, not a whole lot, compared to all the bad stuff.
B) It's a wiki. New players wanting to learn stuff online go there. They see all this stuff. Click on some links. Don't bother to thoroughly check the page and therefore miss the token homebrew tags.
C) I don't think there's any sort of commenting system. People post stuff and mark "power level" with whichever one they intended.

Edit:

Are we referring to dandwiki.com, dnd-wiki.org or some other D&D wiki site?

All of them. I think there are three.

Seerow

2012-08-02, 10:05 PM

GitP should start a D&D wiki that is better organized with content control.

GoodbyeSoberDay

2012-08-02, 10:12 PM

I'll throw my hat in with the "it burns people" crowd. I've tried to get actual, official content approved only to get similarly-named (but vastly different) homebrew content approved just because the DM looked up the content online instead of opening up the actual book.

lord pringle

2012-08-02, 10:42 PM

Seems (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Concept:Death_%283.5e_Class%29) legit (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Pandora%283.5e_Class%29).

Gamer Girl

2012-08-02, 10:53 PM

Well, the D&D Wiki is horrible!

Say your a DM pressed for time looking for a new monster and you do a quick search and head to the D&D Wiki. So looking at the CR 5 monsters you spot 'Chaos Elemental'. Humm, sounds like it could be good. So it's bad enough there is no fluff at all, it's just a bunch of combat stuff....but it gets worse. The 'chaos' part of the Elemental means it gets more attacks. What? Yup, that is 'chaos' for you, it might attack more. Just another dull, boring 'all combat creature.' So you try the Daggerwrist and see it's a monkey with dagger hands and like 10 special abilities. And don't even bother the death dragon as the page is mostly empty.

That's bad enough. But then look at the stuff for players. They find the 'Battle Master', who at 1st level ''always wins initiative'..then you get every player wanting to take one level in this class. And that ability is just broken. And it just get worse.

Sure there might be some OK stuff burred on the site, but there sure is lots of bad stuff.

Malak'ai

2012-08-02, 10:58 PM

Seems (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Concept:Death_%283.5e_Class%29) legit (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Pandora%283.5e_Class%29).

These are... No... Just NO! I would throw not only a single book, but the WHOLE pile at anyone who asked to use either of those in one of my games.

Ehsteve

2012-08-02, 11:06 PM

It's apparent that the D&D wiki sites are not entirely to blame, rather a portion of contributers and on top of that a portion viewers who utilize untested or poorly written articles. Left unchecked it can unleash utter chaos, however so will any party left entirely to its own devices, that is why we have DMs.

If the DMs are willing to accept the ensuing shenanigans from opening that pandora's box, then that is their prerogative.

lord pringle

2012-08-02, 11:12 PM

These are... No... Just NO! I would throw not only a single book, but the WHOLE pile at anyone who asked to use either of those in one of my games.

It's (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/The_Mimic_%283.5e_Class%29) super (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Theurge) balanced (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Bishop_%283.5e_Class%29), what are you talking about?

Pokonic

2012-08-02, 11:20 PM

It's (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/The_Mimic_%283.5e_Class%29) super (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Theurge) balanced (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Bishop_%283.5e_Class%29), what are you talking about?

The tragity behind the last one is that at first glance it seemed sound, like a squishier cleric or something. And then you actualy start reading what's written.

Kelb_Panthera

2012-08-02, 11:20 PM

It's (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/The_Mimic_%283.5e_Class%29) super (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Theurge) balanced (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Bishop_%283.5e_Class%29), what are you talking about?

Please stop linking, you're hurting my brain.

I looked at all 5 of the classes you linked and I felt my IQ drop 12 points, due to the sheer broken'ness.

lsfreak

2012-08-02, 11:26 PM

It's apparent that the D&D wiki sites are not entirely to blame, rather a portion of contributers and on top of that a portion viewers who utilize untested or poorly written articles. Left unchecked it can unleash utter chaos, however so will any party left entirely to its own devices, that is why we have DMs.

Yep. Of the five broken (in either direction) classes posted so far, it looks like two are in part because of vandalism (though admittedly, one of those shouldn't have been posted in the first place, and the talk page calls the author out on it).

Menteith

2012-08-02, 11:28 PM

I like how the Bishop gets 9ths by character level 9. Don't mind me over here, just being a base class with better progression than the Ur-Priest (and some random class abilities than make them even more SAD, but 9ths in as many levels sort of overshadows literally every other possible ability in the game, so meh). The most overpowered class I'd known about on it actually got toned down (the Dragon Rider, had a full BAB, Dragon Mount that scaled better than a Paladin's Mount and and Animal Companion, and both full Arcane and Divine Spellcasting for some reason. It's lost the spell casting now, and is still powerful).

eggs

2012-08-02, 11:30 PM

I like the idea of the site. I like big piles of homebrew. I even really like a few of the things brought out of there (the class in the link about confused posters looked like an overall nice, useful homebrew). But every time I try to give the site a chance and to look for something useful or new, I get The Sadness. After long enough, even Avalanche Press's materials look balanced and system-savvy.

Aegis013

2012-08-02, 11:32 PM

Seems (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Concept:Death_%283.5e_Class%29) legit (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Pandora%283.5e_Class%29).

I like that "a Death" loses a point of Base Attack Bonus from its highest BAB at level 18, but gains one at its lowest iterative. This seems very well written. Lulz.

Azoth

2012-08-02, 11:32 PM

...no...no...a thousand times no!

Seriously though, the others before me have it right. Maybe 1 in 1,000,000 articles on the site are correct...or balanced.

I can not tell you how many times I have had a friend or player tell me about this awesome thing they found on line that will help a char concept they have...and then they show it to me and I head desk through a slab of concrete.

It is some horrible thing that would make the writers of WotC say it was unbalanced to hell...and these are the people who gave us polymorph, time stop, gate...Incantrix...IotSV and even worse.

Augmental

2012-08-02, 11:40 PM

Please stop linking, you're hurting my brain.

I looked at all 5 of the classes you linked and I felt my IQ drop 12 points, due to the sheer broken'ness.

I think they're hilarious...ly broken. Although, the theurge seems a lot like the archivist - the latter can get arcane spells on his list, the former just gets them as a class feature. The theurge gets a domain, magic missile as a spell-like ability, a deflection bonus to AC, what's pretty much DR 10/Adamantine, and immunity to 3rd level and below spells, while the archivist gets scribe scroll, Dark Knowledge, bonus feats, and some other miscellaneous abilities. I'd say scribe scroll tips it in favor of the archivist... unless the theurge knows all wizard/sorcerer and cleric spell lists... but still, the archivist has access to all divine spells.

VGLordR2

2012-08-02, 11:50 PM

I think it would be absolutely hilarious to run a campaign that only allows players to choose classes from the Wiki's homebrew section. That could have interesting results (see Dungeon Master (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Dungeon_Master_%283.5e_Class%29), Metagamer (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Metagamer_%28DnD_Class%29), and Mary Sue (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Mary_Sue_%283.5e_Class%29).)

lord pringle

2012-08-03, 12:06 AM

The tragity behind the last one is that at first glance it seemed sound, like a squishier cleric or something. And then you actualy start reading what's written.

Please stop linking, you're hurting my brain.

I looked at all 5 of the classes you linked and I felt my IQ drop 12 points, due to the sheer broken'ness.

I like how the Bishop gets 9ths by character level 9. Don't mind me over here, just being a base class with better progression than the Ur-Priest (and some random class abilities than make them even more SAD, but 9ths in as many levels sort of overshadows literally every other possible ability in the game, so meh). The most overpowered class I'd known about on it actually got toned down (the Dragon Rider, had a full BAB, Dragon Mount that scaled better than a Paladin's Mount and and Animal Companion, and both full Arcane and Divine Spellcasting for some reason. It's lost the spell casting now, and is still powerful).

I like that "a Death" loses a point of Base Attack Bonus from its highest BAB at level 18, but gains one at its lowest iterative. This seems very well written. Lulz.
I'm (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Denizen_of_Chaos_%283.5e_Race%29) Sorry (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Denizen_of_Limbo_%283.5e_Race%29) about (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Denizen_of_Order_%283.5e_Race%29) All (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Denizen_of_Twilight_%283.5e_Race%29) of (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Denizen_of_Valiancy_%283.5e_Race%29) this (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Brezons_%283.5e_Race%29), but (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Catfolk,_Tirr_%283.5e_Race%29) I (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Cattine_Race_%283.x_Race%29) must (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Charon_%28Orion_Race%29)! Also, I was the one who linked Dragon Rider last thread, I think.

I think it would be absolutely hilarious to run a campaign that only allows players to choose classes from the Wiki's homebrew section. That could have interesting results (see Dungeon Master (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Dungeon_Master_%283.5e_Class%29), Metagamer (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Metagamer_%28DnD_Class%29), and Mary Sue (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Mary_Sue_%283.5e_Class%29).

I'd play it.

Menteith

2012-08-03, 12:13 AM

How did the author determine the proper stat penalties for their "LA0" races? Some of the "Denizens" have horrid stat penalties, some of them have what amounts to a racial +12. And since when is [Feline] a subtype. And why are the Cattine race described so perfectly? "+6 to Dexterity, -2 to Strength, -4 Constitution: Cattine are quick and agile, but are more fail of body than most other creatures. " (emphasis mine). How do you not catch something like that on a basic edit. And I still don't know anything about Charons other than they're adventurous....My brains. They are hurting.

Zelkon

2012-08-03, 12:14 AM

I'm new to 3.5 balance (wizard and CoDzilla and we're talking about balance?). Why are these so bad? Bishop has wayyyyyyyyyy too many spells, death can kill with a touch, and there is way too versatile, but what of pandora and mimic?

Augmental

2012-08-03, 12:45 AM

The Denizen of Valiency is way overpowered. Major int and wis boosts with a side order of con, a penalty to the most common dump stat, outsider type, darkvision, and they make diplomacy even more broken. Actually, the fact that they get a charisma penalty and a racial ability that empowers Diplomacy is kind of odd - though not as odd as the fact that their brightly glowing skin only gives then a -1 penalty to hide checks - even if they're stark naked, apparently. :smallsigh:

eggs

2012-08-03, 12:45 AM

what of pandora and mimic?
Pandora: Can you even tell what this is supposed to do?
Mimic: The author just didn't know how D&D classes work. Abilities are poorly-defined, swing from garbage to completely level-inappropriate. And what is even going on with those saves?

Aegis013

2012-08-03, 12:48 AM

And I still don't know anything about Charons other than they're adventurous....My brains. They are hurting.

Regular human with added bonuses for absolutely no cost. Humans are already one of the best races around.

I'm new to 3.5 balance (wizard and CoDzilla and we're talking about balance?). Why are these so bad? Bishop has wayyyyyyyyyy too many spells, death can kill with a touch, and there is way too versatile, but what of pandora and mimic?

They're very poorly written, balance aside. Humorously so.

VanBuren

2012-08-03, 01:18 AM

How do you not catch something like that on a basic edit.

Whoa whoa whoa! Let's not jump to conclusions here.

Kelb_Panthera

2012-08-03, 01:25 AM

I'm (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Denizen_of_Chaos_%283.5e_Race%29) Sorry (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Denizen_of_Limbo_%283.5e_Race%29) about (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Denizen_of_Order_%283.5e_Race%29) All (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Denizen_of_Twilight_%283.5e_Race%29) of (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Denizen_of_Valiancy_%283.5e_Race%29) this (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Brezons_%283.5e_Race%29), but (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Catfolk,_Tirr_%283.5e_Race%29) I (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Cattine_Race_%283.x_Race%29) must (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Charon_%28Orion_Race%29)! Also, I was the one who linked Dragon Rider last thread, I think.

I'd play it.

Aaaargh....... *gurgles, then foams at the mouth and collapses*

ima donkey

2012-08-03, 01:54 AM

How does a small creature get d8 claws and a d4 bite? Its claws are apparently as effective as short swords, just doesn't make sense.

eggs

2012-08-03, 02:39 AM

Hereditary Sphinx Claws?

EDIT:
Huh. I never played a small Totemist before. Apparently even hereditary sphinx claws wouldn't work.

Morph Bark

2012-08-03, 02:45 AM

I once dug through all of Dandwiki. The results of which can be found here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13498079#post13498079) and here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13499885#post13499885).

C'est terrible.

Bottom line? I no longer allow anything from that site unless I specifically say so beforehand (such as by having Tiered it). No, not even if a player asks me.

Knaight

2012-08-03, 02:52 AM

Krazzman

2012-08-03, 05:08 AM

That again?

Can someone find the thread where someone tried to defend DnD-Wiki because he worked with on it or something like that?

The answers in that thread would probably be enough to show anyone why DnD-Wiki sucks. Slow clogging servers, ****ty homebrew and of course the main fail is their optimized builds section... totally not sorted. sometimes no comments, sometimes failing to do a simple thing. I call out their survivallock as dirt. Darkness does not work like you think... ARGS.

GenghisDon

2012-08-03, 07:52 AM

D&D Wiki, why all the hate? I mean, It has Some stuff that is useable and cool, but everywhere I see "D&D Wiki sucks, dont use it."
Why? Please dont eat me...

No idea, I guess some munchkins only like their cheese officially coloured/flavoured

Venusaur

2012-08-03, 07:59 AM

From the denizen of chaos

Instead they relay thoughts into the mind of other intelligent creatures. This is not actual telepathy because the Denizen is just relaying thoughts, nothing more.

The definition of Telepathy from dictionary.com

the communication between people of thoughts, feelings, desires, etc, involving mechanisms that cannot be understood in terms of known scientific laws

ಠ_ಠ

The Glyphstone

2012-08-03, 08:02 AM

No idea, I guess some munchkins only like their cheese officially coloured/flavoured

I think it's more than even the worst munchkins have standards, for elementary things like grammar and punctuation.

Khatoblepas

2012-08-03, 08:05 AM

No idea, I guess some munchkins only like their cheese officially coloured/flavoured

I don't know why you keep assuming people are munchkins just because they like a certain level of optimization and balance (and presentation). Most people around here, I find, prefer Tier 3 to anything else, something that DND-Wiki completely lacks (though it runs the gamut from Tier 6/X to Tier 0 whilst completely skipping the sweet spot of Tier 3).

It's full of dubious material, material that's homebrew disguised as official material, official material that's been altered with houserules, build compendiums that are completely illegal and against the rules and poorly optimized, a thousand different Naruto classes, and most of it is really poorly edited.

It's a briar patch you don't want to stick your hand into, even to get the few sour berries within.

Psyren

2012-08-03, 08:24 AM

Oh gods, the links in this thread. What is this I don't even

Aegis013

2012-08-03, 08:27 AM

Metagamer (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Metagamer_%28DnD_Class%29)

I'm so meta even this acronym.

Psyren

2012-08-03, 08:34 AM

I'm so meta even this acronym.

Sounds familiar (http://xkcd.com/917/) :smalltongue:

Dsurion

2012-08-03, 08:38 AM

There was another thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=232048) on this subject not very long ago.

Telonius

2012-08-03, 09:41 AM

Summarizing here ...

- Wading through loads of garbage to find a few well-written things. (On the plus side, at least they don't charge you for it like WotC does).
- Site is formatted so that it's easy to miss what's actually homebrew.
- Much more subject to vandalism than something like a homebrew forum.
- Confusing/deceptive for newbie DMs and players.

Hiro Protagonest

2012-08-03, 10:33 AM

No idea, I guess some munchkins only like their cheese officially coloured/flavoured

I was going to write an angry response to this.

Then I decided to give you the benefit of doubt, and checked for white text.

Nope, no white text.

lord pringle

2012-08-03, 11:28 AM

Oh gods, the links in this thread. What is this I don't even

Mwah (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Dragonkin,_Tirr_%283.5e_Race%29) hah (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Drox_%283.5e_Race%29) hah (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Dwelves,_Dark%C3%83%C2%A2%C3%A2%E2%80%9A%C2%AC%C3% A2%E2%82%AC%C2%9DDrowgar_%283.5e_Race%29) hah! (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Ebtekal_Angel%283.5e_Race%29)

Wyntonian

2012-08-03, 11:50 AM

I don't hate it, I just think that it's the worst possible alternative I've yet to come across. Seriously, it's like asking someone to drink Hawaiian Punch mixed with cow piss instead of Maker's Mark.

Also, look at those links. Look, for a little while. Are your eyes bleeding yet? Mine are.

Mwah (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Dragonkin,_Tirr_%283.5e_Race%29) hah (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Drox_%283.5e_Race%29) hah (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Dwelves,_Dark%C3%83%C2%A2%C3%A2%E2%80%9A%C2%AC%C3% A2%E2%82%AC%C2%9DDrowgar_%283.5e_Race%29) hah! (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Ebtekal_Angel%283.5e_Race%29)

:smalleek::smallmad::smallfrown:

ima donkey

2012-08-03, 11:51 AM

Mwah (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Dragonkin,_Tirr_%283.5e_Race%29) hah (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Drox_%283.5e_Race%29) hah (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Dwelves,_Dark%C3%83%C2%A2%C3%A2%E2%80%9A%C2%AC%C3% A2%E2%82%AC%C2%9DDrowgar_%283.5e_Race%29) hah! (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Ebtekal_Angel%283.5e_Race%29)

The best part about those is just reading what the authors write, for example the drowgaur are stout and thin… okay, and those super nice angel/fey things are on a crusade of kindness.

Arathnos

2012-08-03, 12:04 PM

For me, I have always just used, and allowed my players to use, the wiki sites for ideas. Oh, okay, here is a pretty cool concept for an [archer, spellsword, whatever-you-want-to-play], now let's take that idea, and work together to make a decent, balanced class we all agree on.

It falls on the DM to educate his/her players if they are new and prone to taking the material on the wiki at face value. When used as a supplementary tool for idea and conceptual help, it is actually very useful.

Zale

2012-08-03, 12:13 PM

Anyone posted this (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Higardi_%283.5e_Race%29) yet?

Novawurmson

2012-08-03, 12:23 PM

The drowgar is stout, thin

Wait, what (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-rDr1xkhB8Yc/T0KXD-II05I/AAAAAAAAA1M/lmu4ZwELyY0/s1600/KeepUsingThatWord.jpg)?

Edit: I think you guys are being unfair. There's a lot of content on that site that sacrifices power in the name of flavor (http://www.myth-weavers.com/wiki/index.php/Lightning_Warrior).

Fable Wright

2012-08-03, 12:49 PM

Wait, what (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-rDr1xkhB8Yc/T0KXD-II05I/AAAAAAAAA1M/lmu4ZwELyY0/s1600/KeepUsingThatWord.jpg)?

Edit: I think you guys are being unfair. There's a lot of content on that site that sacrifices power in the name of flavor (http://www.myth-weavers.com/wiki/index.php/Lightning_Warrior).

...No, they even got that wrong (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Lightning_warrior_(3.5e_Class)).

lord pringle

2012-08-03, 01:01 PM

The best part about those is just reading what the authors write, for example the drowgaur are stout and thin… okay, and those super nice angel/fey things are on a crusade of kindness.
They're fighting a war for peace.

Anyone posted this (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Higardi_%283.5e_Race%29) yet?
You beat me to higardi.:smallfrown::smalltongue:
Why (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/True_Ancient_Human_%283.5e_Race%29) are (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Penguinians_%283.5e_Race%29) almost (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Platypus_Person_%283.5e_Race%29) all (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Polymals_%283.5e_Race%29) of (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Heni_%283.5e_Race%29) these (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Half-Lunars_%283.5e_Race%29) perfect (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Elves,_Wolf_%283.5e_Race%29) for (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Garl_%283.5e_Race%29) Sorcerers (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Elves,_Silver,_Variant_%283.5e_Race%29)? Also (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Elves,_Lord_of_the_Rings_%283.5e_Race%29), Elves. (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Elves,_Lords_of_Asylum_%283.5e_Race%29)

Kelb_Panthera

2012-08-03, 01:04 PM

*looks at new links*

*resumes foaming and begins twitching*

Menteith

2012-08-03, 01:06 PM

The penguinains are downright well designed compared to the rest. I kinda want to make a Meldshaper Penguin right now.

ima donkey

2012-08-03, 01:10 PM

Ageless (Ex): A Immortal creature do not take any penalty from aging and do not die of old ages, they however does not revert any penalty take before the acquisition of the template.

I sure does good at grammar.

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Samurai_2_(3.5e_Class)

Someone in my group insisted on playing that for the longest time, just look at the feats and tell me it's not the most overpowered thing ever.

lord pringle

2012-08-03, 01:31 PM

Dsurion

2012-08-03, 01:46 PM

It's ridiculous, but well written at least.It's "based" on FrankTrollman work, only the author tacked on a bunch of extra bonus feats.

Novawurmson

2012-08-03, 02:21 PM

+10 dexterity, +6 charisma, +4 Comeliness, +6 constitution, +8 Strength, +4 Intelligence, +2 Wisdom

wat

Comeliness? Isn't that BoEF?

Edit: Why not let the wiki tell us (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Comeliness_(3.5e_Variant_Rule))?

NikitaDarkstar

2012-08-03, 02:28 PM

I'd also note that there is a lot of material on that site that is just juvenile. Mechanical problems aside, when the flaw list makes the BoEF look like an authority on nuance and maturity something has gone horribly wrong.

Hey now! My group actually uses that flaw list... even if we have to cut out about 2/3's of it for being utterly ridiculous or useless. (And fairly often end up making our own flaws...)

only1doug

2012-08-03, 02:46 PM

...No, they even got that wrong (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Lightning_warrior_(3.5e_Class)).

" I've been traveling since the begging of time, I know your kind. ”
—Kird'dik, Drow Lightning warrior

I used to beg for the time, these days i just use my mobile to find out what time it is.

Zale

2012-08-03, 03:12 PM

How strange.

The website appears to be offline.

Did we hurt it's feelings?

lord pringle

2012-08-03, 03:23 PM

wat

Those stats, they're LA 0.

Surzt and Gurzt

2012-08-03, 03:34 PM

ima donkey

2012-08-03, 03:42 PM

Confession time; I use the Birdfolk (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Beastfolk,_Birdfolk_(3.5e_Race))races. I actually like them. I should add that I am the DM and have presented them as options for the players. Doesn't mean I haven't had to shut down players asking for whatever feat/class/race/pile of poop some players found there. Even experienced players, which makes me very sad.

Some of those are fairly well balanced. I would say those represent some of the highest quality homebrew on d&d wiki I have seen. But things like that are quite rare.