Fiend of Possession Optimization

[Gotterdammerung]

I know there is nothing new under the sun, so someone else has probably already thought of this.
But just in case they havent, here goes.

I was recently giving Fiend of Possession a close look. I was already familiar with the class, but it had been a while since I gave it a close look.
And honestly, I have never tried to Op-fu the class. Usually all the effort is spent getting in the class without being a burdensomely high lvl adjusted evil outsider. Once your in the class, the abilities are so convenient and powerful there is no need for optimization.

Nevertheless, I stumbled across a way to uber break the prestige class and make them possibly one of the strongest support characters OR the most baddest awesome cohort choice ever for a melee or physical ranged character.


Take your average Fiend of possession build.
Now
Add in a major bloodline
And
Add in as many lvls of Legacy Champion that you can fit.

Now go re-read the "Magic Item (Su):" ability of the Fiend of Possession

Lets do it as a cohort for a lvl 20 character.

The Cohort has money already ready for the ritual to change it's alignment subtype.
So that plus otherworldy and he/she is ready for the prestige class pretty early.

3 lvls of various different classes will make the pre-requs

So 2 something/1bloodline/1 somethun else/ 1 Fiend of Possession/1 bloodline/5 Fiend of Possession/1 bloodline/6 Legacy champion

Our cohort is now treated as a lvl 14 Fiend of Possession for its "Magic Item (Su):" Ability.

This means that if he possesses a +10 equivalent weapon, he can boost it to a +24 equivalent weapon.
Same with armor.
And all 14 of those enhancements can be mixed around on the fly.

Let's say it is just a plain jane +5 bow to being with.
The FoP can give it seeking, splitting, ect ect, whatever is needed. Then dump the remaining enhancement into hit and damage.
Let's say the archer gets closed in by enemy combatants.
The FoP can instantly change it to a +18 defending bow and boost his masters ac by 18.
The FoP can make excellent use of the Bane line of enhancements. Since the enhancement can be changed on the fly, he can ensure the right bane is on the weapon.

Anyway, I thought this was a pretty cool find.
Thoughts?

[VGLordR2]

Wouldn't the Bloodline levels also stack with Legacy Champion for an additional +3? Also, I know that Dvati are often brought up in FoP builds, but is there anything that says that two Fiends of Possession cannot occupy the same item? If not, Dvati twins would make even better Fiends of Possession.

[Gotterdammerung]

Wouldn't the Bloodline levels also stack with Legacy Champion for an additional +3?

The bloodlines give +3 to the fiend lvl. The legacy champion gives +5 to the fiend lvl. And the fiend has 6 natural lvls. So 14th lvl fiend of possession at the end.

The bloodline would not affect the legacy champions ability to give the FoP lvls because that is a feature of specific class lvls, not a feature based on class lvl.


Also, I know that Dvati are often brought up in FoP builds, but is there anything that says that two Fiends of Possession cannot occupy the same item? If not, Dvati twins would make even better Fiends of Possession.

Good find. Even if they can't possess the same item. One could possess 1 weapon and the other the armor. Or each possess 2 different weapons. Or one possess the bow and apply their full enhancement to special abilities, and the other possess the arrow and apply the full enhancement to hit and damage. Or any combinations like that could be useful.
And if your DM did rule they could possess the same item, boy.. wow +28 enhancement, not only for free, but also can change its properties on the fly. CHEEEZY.

You would also remove a lot of the penalties of being a dvati. They would both be pretty safe while possessing the weapons.

The only problem I see. Otherworldy only allows a specific set of races to take it. And divine minion trick only lets you change an alignment subtype to match your deity IF you have some kind of alignment subtype already. So how do you make a dvati into an evil outsider? I don't really even know what a dvati starts as. humanoid(dvati)?

Real nice addition thanks.

[Mithril Leaf]

A thrallherd could have a pair of them, if Dvati works, and you can have all on one weapon, that's +56. +61 AC whenever I need it? Yes please. Probably horribly non-raw, but they could technically add empyrean to it and give you a +61 sacred bonus to all your saves. See ya save-or-dies.

[Gotterdammerung]

A thrallherd could have a pair of them, if Dvati works, and you can have all on one weapon, that's +56. +61 AC whenever I need it? Yes please. Probably horribly non-raw, but they could technically add empyrean to it and give you a +61 sacred bonus to all your saves. See ya save-or-dies.

What book is Empyrean from?


Also, figured out you can get dvati into FoP if you give them the half-fiend template but you are going to lose a few lvls off of the build. It still comes out better for a cohort to go ahead and do it since two times a few less is still more total.

[Acanous]

you'd still fail on a nat 1.

:p

[Getsugaru]

Scarier still is the Fiend of Possession possessing the Nimblewright's Rapier-Hands and giving them enchantments that increase the weapon's critical range and multiplier that have the ability to stack. Scarier still is when the Nimblewright's weapons are Kaorti resin and the enchantment is the manyfang trait from Serpent Kingdoms; +3 to critical multiplier and auto X4 to all non-crit damage+Kaorti's natural Critical Multiplier of X4= X4 on normal (which, for a nimblewright, is very rare) and X7 on a Critical Hit!!!!! And if it's a Dvati, or even if it isn't, there is an armor trait which lets you turn a construct into a living suit of armor; wear Nimblewright armor as a caster with still spell and the armor moves and fights for you while you sling spells from within without having to move(I am away from my books at the moment; I'll look up that trait when I get back to my books...)!

[Gotterdammerung]

Ok so Dvati with half-succubus (customized fiendish template from web enhancement) is a +5 lvl adjustment.


Assuming the main character is supporting its cohort it should have the feat and the reputation to get a 19 ECL cohort at lvl 20. (or be a thrallherd)

That makes it

LA5 / 2 Good will class #1/ 1 bloodline/ 1 Good will class #2/ 1 FoP/ 1 bloodline/ 5 FoP/ 1 Bloodline/ 2 Legacy Champion

This gives us a total of lvl 10 FoP for the magic thing but its a dvati so it can double up.

This means +10 extra enhancement to 2 different items OR +20 extra enhancement to 1 item.


If the main character is a 10 thrall herd then it would be 2 seperate +10 enhancements and 2 seperate +9 enhancements. OR a +38 enhancement to one weapon or armor.

Um.... suck it Kensai :cool:

[ZeroNumerous]

Nevertheless, I stumbled across a way to uber break the prestige class and make them possibly one of the strongest support characters OR the most baddest awesome cohort choice ever for a melee or physical ranged character.

It really only works for bows, because Magic Circle Against X instantly shuts it down if you attempt to use it for armor or a melee weapon.

[Gotterdammerung]

It really only works for bows, because Magic Circle Against X instantly shuts it down if you attempt to use it for armor or a melee weapon.

No it doesn't.

Those line of spells only prevent the possession of creatures. This ability is the possession of an object. Those spells won't do anything to this build.

And along that line. Banishment and things like that really wouldn't work. Because the FoP cohorts are for the most part undetectable while possessing your weapon/armor. Which means the enemy doesn't know they are in your sword to banish them.

The only danger they really face is alignment based attacks like holy word, chaos hammer type spells. Steps could be taken to protect themselves from those spells as well.

[Igneel]

Something that I always found funny (part of the reason why I attempted a re-write [* insert shameless plug (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12695726#post12695726)*]) is that most people never truly think about the Possess+Animate Noncontinuous Item ability. My Dm got real sick of me after I did some thinking on how to incorporate these abilities for when I'm away from team mates to 'wield' me.

Lets take something simple at first... How about some sand in the desert? You possess a 'Colossal-sized' item's worth of sand at 6th lvl FoP, and animate it. Doesn't really describe how much sand or anything else is considered Colossal, so this might take some discussion. Now you are a 'swarm' of sand which technically now that its a animated item you can command it either through telepathy or by taking control over it what you want it to do while 'refreshing' the animation whenever the duration comes close to an end. Taking a back seat and letting the sand drive makes it so that you don't take too much damage as it does in combat, assuming there is a way to actually deal damage to sand outside of wind/sonic effects as its more of a swarm then a object in regards for disintigrate. Congrats, now you can have the swarm engulf people and start crushing/suffocating them all the while getting in places that they would rather not talk about after leaving the beach.

What if you want something more deadly? Like lava? Its a noncontinuous item, and for a short time (it cools off after a while) a very deadly alternative when fighting against people not outright immune to fire damage. Even if they are, engulf them, cool down to a solid state and encase them in a rock-hard encasing. Or how about acid? Fire? Poison? Whatever you can find/think of is really your limit.

Now lets go onto what my Dm grew to hate... A bag of the sneezing and choking dust (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/cursedItems.htm#dustofSneezingandChoking). If you go by the item's description, its magic doesn't go away after a use because it lacks a "this item/magic is consumed after use" clause, as the designers assumed you wouldn't have a way to pick up all the dust after using it. Possess the dust inside, animate it, and start attacking your enemies. Each time you attack, they are close enough to fall under its effects and have to make a save. Even if they succeed it will open up the gate way for your team mates to blast them with spells and ranged attacks. If they are still standing, hit them again! When your done, have someone prop the bag open and put the dust back for later use.

Another fun idea is while possessing an item to use your Curse ability. Now granted the saving throw will likely not be very high, or your opponents will have ways to more or less ignore it, everyone's got to roll a Nat 1 at some point right? Pick certain curses that would greatly hamper the opponent from at least the PHB/BoVD/Dragon #348 are nice little guides on what you can use.

Heck, technically a animated object stays animated even after you leave it, so if you have the time/resources you can possess+animate+unpossess one animated object jump into another rinse/repeat. Beware, as the duration is quite short.

[Spuddles]

Can't you qualify for FoP with Neraph or Tiefling?

[Akal Saris]

You still need the [evil] subtype, which is difficult to get. There's an expensive ritual in Savage Species which grants it, and a few rare templates.

[Gotterdammerung]

You still need the [evil] subtype, which is difficult to get. There's an expensive ritual in Savage Species which grants it, and a few rare templates.

Yeh, we been using the ritual.

[Mithril Leaf]

What book is Empyrean from?

Book of Exalted Deeds. Always fun to mix in with your Fiends of Possession.

[NoPressure]

This will work well against bows right? But how do you get the evil subtype?

[nedz]

Lots of Thread Necromancy

[DisturbedDeity]

I actually made a forum on this exact build a few days ago for dvati Fiend of possessions xD

[ATHATH]

I actually made a forum on this exact build a few days ago for dvati Fiend of possessions xD
Die, foul necromancer!

*Smites Evil People Who Are Oblivious to Post Dates*