Apostle of Peace

[GeekGirl]

Out of boredom last night I was looking through books for something new. I started with BoED, I never really took a serious look at it. As much as I like the flavor of the class, though tit seems really hard to use for a PC. The two big drawbacks being Vow of Non-violence and Vow of Poverty.

So here's my two part question; First how would you build an Apostle of Peace? Second as a PC how would you play it?

I was thinking Monk 4/Paladin 3/Apostle of Peace 2/Scared Fist 10/Anything 1
Add Ascetic Knight, and Serenity

And I can't answer the second half of my own question

[Aemoh87]

I would recommend two levels of Monk and two of Paladin. From there you can really do whatever you would like. Two levels of fighter then two levels of Rogue w/Fighter Feats nets you Four feats but it's not completely practical. Factotum 3 is an amazing little detour. Marshal one is INCREDIBLE but is mostly forgotten. You also have the option to prestige before AoP. I like to get Pious Templar for mettle since your gonna have great saves.

AoP is such a late entry prestige with really easy to meet requirements that you can do a whole lot. From a party standpoint you need to be the party face and healer/cc. I like to add lasso skills with a some fighter to the mix as well, synergies with your abilities and plus lasso's are sweet. As long as you don't forget to take ancestral relic and spend your money wisely you can become one heck of a force to be feared (if your evil).

My final suggestion is ask your DM what items that protect you mean. Cloak of resistance? What about Banner of the Storm's Eye? How far does this extend... or is it just +AC items?

How did I play mine? As a masked man who fought for good and always gave second chances. The rest of the party hated that I let goblins go, then preached that we need to make sure farmers don't encroach on their territory so that they don't have to resort to raiding. We almost never killed a foe as a group. All animals were calmed then handled. Bandits reasoned with. Particularly deficient villains got geas'd into a quest that would teach them the errors of their ways. In combat I would stop fighting to heal any that needed it. At high level I even resurrected a drow, as my character did not believe in inherent good or evil. Needless to say that drow became a recurring villain.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Build: Human, Beguiler 5/ Apostle of Peace 2/ Mystic Theurge 8/ Paragnostic Apostle 5

With Sacred Vow and Vow of Poverty at 1st level, you'll be able to get Vow of Nonviolence and Peace at 2nd and 4th with your bonus exalted feats. You'll probably want Practiced Spellcaster: Beguiler, and I'd try to fit in Able Learner if you can take flaws. Versatile Spellcaster is highly recommended.

Due to the wording of Apostle of Peace's caster level and Mystic Theurge spellcasting, your AoP caster level will be (AoP+MT)+(Beguiler+MT+PA)/2.


How to play it: Successfully playing this type of character in a party is entirely dependent on a second character with a few specific parameters. The second character will need to be in a position of authority in the local society, whether through the government or a church organization. His specific position of authority will need to be that of a judge, not unlike Judge Dredd, who can give criminals, monsters, and whatever other opponents you encounter a fair/legal trial, sentence, and execution on the spot, and declare their assets forfeit as compensation for their crimes. This gets around your Vows preventing your party members from killing defeated opponents after a battle is over, and without this your party is likely to view you as more of a hindrance than anything else.

For that specific character, I'd use a Cloistered Cleric 1/ Paladin 19, with Law Devotion, Knowledge Devotion, the Inquisition domain, the Divine Counterspell ACF in CM for Paladin, the Divine Defiance feat from FC2, the Collector of Stories skill trick, and probably the Charging Smite ACF for Paladin in PH2.

[Person_Man]

Here's an old Knight (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=109429) build that I've used before:

Saint Bertold: Whatever 3/Knight 4/Apostle of Peace 4/Full Caster Progression PrC X

Whatever 3 can be anything with Concentration (prereq for Apostle of Peace) as a class Skill. A mix of Paladin, Binder, Incarnate, and/or any Skill Monkey class might be a good idea.

Knight gives you Test of Mettle.

Apostle of Peace offers fast casting progression, giving you 9th level spells at ECL 16, albeit from good but somewhat limited list. It also gives you Turn Undead, a no Save Calm Emotions, and Censure Demons. Nothing but spells after 4 levels though, so head into any other PrC that offers full caster progression.

Vow of Peace and Vow of Non-Violence boosts the Save DCs of all of your abilities and spells (including Test of Mettle), makes weapons break against you, and give you other abilities.

So your combos are rather strait forward. Use Test of Mettle, and enemies will hopelessly attack you, breaking their weapons against you. Your friends can incapacitate those who aren't effected, and then focus on the people who are one at a time. If an enemy isn’t effected by Test of Mettle, you can use Calm Emotions, Skills, or the many spells at your disposal.

[Eldonauran]

Hmm, I love this prestige class. Most builds that I use only dip a level or two into AoP though.

Monk/Totemist/AoP/Contemplative/Sapphire Heirarch

Or mix it up and go Generic Arcane caster + Prestige bard, add a splash of AoP and sprinkle of Sublime Chord and finish it off with Mystic Therge (or similar prestige class)

[Aemoh87]

Hmm, I love this prestige class. Most builds that I use only dip a level or two into AoP though.

Monk/Totemist/AoP/Contemplative/Sapphire Heirarch

Or mix it up and go Generic Arcane caster + Prestige bard, add a splash of AoP and sprinkle of Sublime Chord and finish it off with Mystic Therge (or similar prestige class)

The problem is you literally get nothing most levels so what is the point? After second level there really isn't any unless censure is that valuable. I recommend taking a 5 level PrC after two levels of AoP so you can hit the capstone quickly.

[Myrddin0001]

you can't be an AoP and attack anything ever. That's the whole point. they are complete pacifists.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

you can't be an AoP and attack anything ever. That's the whole point. they are complete pacifists.

No, you can deal all the nonlethal damage you want to anything you want.

Beguiler is the perfect choice for entering AoP, because it already works great with Vow of Peace+Nonviolence. You get the Whelm line of spells which all deal nonlethal damage, you get illusions and enchantments to avoid fights or possibly to get opponents to restrain each other. Plus there's the Mystic Theurge caster level shenanigans.

[Big Fau]

With regards to your second question, it requires a very cooperative party. Vow of Non-violence has a clause about your party acting against your vow, so you end up forcing things down other players' throats. Unless the entire party agrees to play by that Vow's restrictions before-hand, it can cause some serious inter-party strife.

[Answerer]

The Apostle of Peace is a terrible class from a meta point of view. It screws with your allies hard and prevents most of them from doing what they are supposed to do.

The 3.5 system is a combat simulator, with a few skill rules tacked on. Of course, RP is always an option, but RP is an option in almost anything and you don't need a system for that. When you're using a system as combat-heavy as 3.5, you expect combat. If someone shows up with an Apostle of Peace, that goes out the window. Now you can't. And more importantly, there's almost nothing left of the system when you're done.

Playing an Apostle of Peace without getting approval from everyone at the table is rude. Agreeing to play with one is a mistake, at least under 3.5. If you want the kind of game that the Apostle of Peace is geared for, you should be using a system that's actually designed for it, and has rules, mechanics, and options for playing such a game. 3.5 is not that system. The skill rules are weak, particularly Diplomacy. When someone says "I want to play an Apostle of Peace," I hear "I don't actually want to play 3.5."


Knight gives you Test of Mettle.
I desperately wish this meant something.

But it doesn't, not really.

Test of Mettle is going to have a super-low DC (scales with Knight levels). It's got restrictions out the wazoo. It is single-target. It prevents your allies from doing anything with the target. Etc. etc.

Test of Mettle is just not that good an ability. It synergizes well with Apostle of Peace, but I don't think it's enough.

[NekoJoker]

Due to the wording of Apostle of Peace's caster level and Mystic Theurge spellcasting, your AoP caster level will be (AoP+MT)+(Beguiler+MT+PA)/2.


sorry to interrupt, but can anyone clarify this? I don't really get what he is saying... is it something like the Green Star Adept+Master spellthief glitch?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

sorry to interrupt, but can anyone clarify this? I don't really get what he is saying... is it something like the Green Star Adept+Master spellthief glitch?

Mystic Theurge gets added directly to your levels in each class for determining all caster levels. That means you count your MT levels directly toward AoP's caster level for having increased its spellcasting capability, then you count half of your MT plus arcane spellcasting class levels toward your AoP caster level, so MT levels get counted one and a half times.

[Gwendol]

Answerer; I think you mistake Test of Mettle for the Goad feat. ToM affects all enemies that can see and hear the knight within a fixed radius 100' IIRC). The knight class does not mix that well with others though, and the ToM DC scales terribly even for a single class knight.

[Kelb_Panthera]

The DC for test of metal isn't too bad when you consider that the DC is boosted by both of the required vows, and that VoP's bonus feats being exalted means it'll probably get a couple more boosts. It'll start to fall off toward the endgame around lvls 17-20 but until then it could still be competetive.

[Gwendol]

Sure, I was speaking in general terms. I like ToM and have made good use of it in-game.