[PF] Healing a Synthesist

[MikolasTheAngry]

So, while building a Synthesist and reading about the class I've come across people mentioning the concern that it's hard to heal the eidolon suit.

Call me daft, but I don't see anything that says an Eidolon (the synthesist variation in particular) can't be healed by regular spells. Am I missing something?

Is it because the eidolon is "temporary HP"? Can I not target it with Infernal Healing?

[ThiagoMartell]

So, while building a Synthesist and reading about the class I've come across people mentioning the concern that it's hard to heal the eidolon suit.

Call me daft, but I don't see anything that says an Eidolon (the synthesist variation in particular) can't be healed by regular spells. Am I missing something?

Is it because the eidolon is "temporary HP"? Can I not target it with Infernal Healing?

The only way for a Synthesist to heal his eidolon is the rejuvenate eidolon chain (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/r/rejuvenate-eidolon). I'm pretty sure this is adressed in the FAQ.

[MikolasTheAngry]

The only way for a Synthesist to heal his eidolon is the rejuvenate eidolon chain (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/r/rejuvenate-eidolon). I'm pretty sure this is adressed in the FAQ.

Right, I've found that now. It is because it's temporary HP, then. Shame! Thank you. :smallsmile:

[grarrrg]

For those of you just joining this thread, a recap/further explanation:

Eidolons (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/summoner) do NOT naturally regain their HP:
When summoned in this way, the eidolon hit points are unchanged from the last time it was dismissed or banished. The only exception to this is if the eidolon was slain, in which case it returns with half its normal hit points. The eidolon does not heal naturally.

Synthesist (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/summoner/archetypes/paizo---summoner-archetypes/synthesist)'s Eidolon HP is Temporary HP, according to the Rules Temporary HP cannot be healed:

The synthesist gains the eidolon’s hit points as temporary hit points. When these hit points reach 0, the eidolon is killed and sent back to its home plane.

Temporary HP (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/combat#TOC-Temporary-Hit-Points):
When temporary hit points are lost, they cannot be restored as real hit points can be, even by magic.

So Pre-Errata, the ONLY way to "heal" a Synthesist's Eidolon was by getting it killed, and it would only come back with 1/2 hp.
Post-Errata (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/v5748btpy8k8r&page=3) you are allowed to cast the Rejuvinate Eidolon (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/r/rejuvenate-eidolon) line of spells to bring it up to full.

The Fast Healing (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/summoner/eidolons) evolution would arguably work as well (both pre- and post- errata).

[Cieyrin]

The only way for a Synthesist to heal his eidolon is the rejuvenate eidolon chain (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/r/rejuvenate-eidolon). I'm pretty sure this is adressed in the FAQ.

It's in the Errata.

[QuidEst]

Yeah, it's awfully hard to heal. =/ In combat, you want to take the opportunity to dump as much of your own health back into it (whenever it reaches zero) so that you can get healing.

[Hand_of_Vecna]

Barring those strange Pre-Erratta RAW issues that I never noticed, it's easy to keep Synthesists healed up. Unlike a non Synthesist you won't be casting most rounds so you'll should have lots of spell slots sitting around to heal yourself with. You might choose to take some damage to your real hp even before the Eidiolon is down to 1 hp though, if your party has an in combat healer or very efficient out of combat healing.

[QuidEst]

Barring those strange Pre-Erratta RAW issues that I never noticed, it's easy to keep Synthesists healed up. Unlike a non Synthesist you won't be casting most rounds so you'll should have lots of spell slots sitting around to heal yourself with. You might choose to take some damage to your real hp even before the Eidiolon is down to 1 hp though, if your party has an in combat healer or very efficient out of combat healing.

I don't think you have the option of taking the damage yourself unless your Eidolon is about to die. :smallconfused:



Fused Link (Su)
Starting at 1st level, the synthesist forms a close bond with his eidolon. Whenever the temporary hit points from his eidolon would be reduced to 0, the summoner can, as a free action, sacrifice any number of his own hit points. Each hit point sacrificed this way prevents 1 point of damage done to the eidolon (thus preventing the loss of the summoner’s temporary hit points), preventing the eidolon from being killed and sent back to its home plane.
This ability replaces life link.

Actually, that's worse than I thought… I thought you could just dump hitpoints on in a big lump to bring the Eidolon up to full.

Or did you mean taking all 8 damage if your Eidolon is at 5 and is dealt 8?

[Andvare]

It also seems like the difficulty in healing the Eidolon was intended:


Summoner: How does a synthesist (page 80) heal damage to his eidolon?

Because the eidolon gives the synthesist temporary hit points rather than having a separate pool of normal hit points, effects that cure hit points don't restore the eidolon's temporary hit points. This technically leaves you unable to heal the eidolon. To remedy this, effects that specifically restore hp to an eidolon (such as rejuvenate eidolon) restore temporary hit points to a synthesist's eidolon. This does mean those spells end up as a sort of must-have "spell tax" for synthesists, but the advantage of being a synthesist is your eidolon's hp are a buffer between you and damage, unlike a normal summoner who can be targeted separately from his eidolon.

Even the Fast Healing evolution, or other fast healing or regeneration effects, restore hit points rather than temporary hit points, so they heal the summoner, not the eidolon's temporary hit points.

—Sean K Reynolds, 08/02/11


It amazes me that sometimes Paizo so thoroughly refuses to learn from their predecessor's mistakes.

[Cieyrin]

It amazes me that sometimes Paizo so thoroughly refuses to learn from their predecessor's mistakes.

The accumulated errata and FAQs will foam up about their waists and all the players and Dungeon Masters will look up and shout "Balance!"...and Sean K. Reynolds will look down, and whisper "No."

[ThiagoMartell]

The accumulated errata and FAQs will foam up about their waists and all the players and Dungeon Masters will look up and shout "Balance!"...and Sean K. Reynolds will look down, and whisper "No."

Well, from the Paizo forums, it really seems like most people don't care that much about balance.
Whenever someone gets there complaining about something not being balanced, it ends up in a flamewar with concepts such as "its there for the RP" and "you just don't get it".

[Hand_of_Vecna]

I don't think you have the option of taking the damage yourself unless your Eidolon is about to die. :smallconfused:

Ah, you're right. I think I read the Synthesist ability as working like the level 14 summoner ability. I still don't find staying healed as a Sythesist all that hard. You won't be casting nearly as much in combat as a standard summoner, so you'll have plenty of slots left over for out of combat healing.

The last time I played a Synthesist my spell casting consisted of casting one cc at the start of about half of all combats, prebuffing with evolution surge to deal with environmental hazards and forecasted monster abilities, and topping off my hp after every encounter. I'd assumed that, barring using MultiTasking and MultiVoice to reclaim the action economy you gave up when you took Synthesist, this was the standard way to play.

Are you concerned about in combat healing? Aside from all the tired old arguments about it being a suboptimal action most of the time, Synthesists are one of the classes in the least need of it. Unless you Hardcore dump Con you have allllllll the hitpoints, and a decent portion of them are real hp that a standard healer can heal when your life needs saving. I suppose you miss out on Mass Heal and Persistent Mass Lesser Vigor.

Furthermore, the first two spells in the Rejuvenate line are comparable to the Cure gained at the same level. So your in the same boat healing-wise as a Clericzilla that serves as the main healer for his party.


Well, from the Paizo forums, it really seems like most people don't care that much about balance.
Whenever someone gets there complaining about something not being balanced, it ends up in a flamewar with concepts such as "its there for the RP" and "you just don't get it".

Which is hilarious because "then why play rebalanced (pathfinder) 3.5 instead of classic, balance doesn't matter as much as rp and truenamers have some great fluff."

[Cieyrin]

Well, from the Paizo forums, it really seems like most people don't care that much about balance.
Whenever someone gets there complaining about something not being balanced, it ends up in a flamewar with concepts such as "its there for the RP" and "you just don't get it".

Hence why I don't tend to visit the Paizo forums. At least here I get equal parts inane and thoughtful discussion, if you just look for it.

[grarrrg]

Hence why I don't tend to visit the Paizo forums. At least here I get equal parts inane and thoughtful discussion, if you just look for it.

I know you are but what am I?

[ThiagoMartell]

Hence why I don't tend to visit the Paizo forums. At least here I get equal parts inane and thoughtful discussion, if you just look for it.

Well, here if you want to use something that is not 'the best' option, you'll get buried under tons of 'play X instead' advice. It's just as bad, IMHO.

[Crasical]

Balance issues aside, the Golarion setting is pretty cool on it's own, and I'm a fan of the alchemist, Gunslinger, Magus, Ect.

[Cieyrin]

Well, here if you want to use something that is not 'the best' option, you'll get buried under tons of 'play X instead' advice. It's just as bad, IMHO.

I know I try to work within the request and some of the longer time posters do as well but yes, we do have quite a bit of 'Play a Weezard!' or 'Play an Unarmed Swordsage!' No forum is perfect, I just like the people and topics here that I can overlook some of the annoyances and annoying posters. (not saying you're one, just...some people on the forums, like any forum, know how to scrape through my patience rather rapidly...)

[grarrrg]

...the annoyances and annoying posters....some people on the forums...know how to scrape through my patience rather rapidly...)

*tries to whistle nonchalantly*

[ThiagoMartell]

Balance issues aside, the Golarion setting is pretty cool on it's own, and I'm a fan of the alchemist, Gunslinger, Magus, Ect.

Yeah, Golarion is pretty much vanilla fantasy, but since every setting tries so hard to have it's own twist, it ends up being original.
When you do find out the twists, you end up enjoying it even more. :smallbiggrin:

[Cieyrin]

*tries to whistle nonchalantly*

Not you, you lovable twit. :smalltongue:

[Crasical]

Yeah, Golarion is pretty much vanilla fantasy, but since every setting tries so hard to have it's own twist, it ends up being original.
When you do find out the twists, you end up enjoying it even more. :smallbiggrin:

:smallconfused: Golarion always struck me as more pulp fantasy than vanilla, what with the guns and the mad scientists and the giant terrariums with lost worlds hidden deep beneath the earth.