Suggestions for those last 4 levels

[LanSlyde]

Hello all,

I've currently got a Goliath Lion Spirit Barbarian 6/ Champion of Gwynharwyf 2 rolled up for a future campaign. He's going to be our front line charger/tank with heavy fear effects for added shenanigans. That said, once the PrC caps out I'm kinda lost on where to go from there. Yeah I could just go ahead and finish out those last 4 levels with barbarian, but I'm wondering if you gentlemen had any other ideas that would serve him better?

Balgruuf "Toestomper" Gathakinathi
M CG Goliath Lion Totem Barbarianlvl6 / Champion of Gwynharwyf lvl2, Level 8, Init +4, HP 136/136, Speed 30
AC 22, Touch 14, Flat-footed 18, Fort +16, Ref +9, Will +7, Base Attack Bonus 8/3
Masterwork War Mace 15/10 (-2) (3d6 + 6 , X20)
Masterwork War Mace 15/10 (-2) (3d6 + 6 , X20)
Fly (1/day) Celestial Armor (+3 Chainmail) (+8 Armor, +4 Dex)
Abilities Str 22, Dex 18, Con 20, Int 16, Wis 14, Cha 13
Condition None

If anything above looks odd to you point it out, we have some houserules that may be the cause.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Since you're exalted anyway, you could pick up righteous wrath and a couple levels of Frenzied Berserker. The usual pitfalls of FB don't crop up when you've got righteous wrath, so it should be very effective.

[LanSlyde]

Since you're exalted anyway, you could pick up righteous wrath and a couple levels of Frenzied Berserker. The usual pitfalls of FB don't crop up when you've got righteous wrath, so it should be very effective.

Yeah, Righteous Wrath is a required for CoG, but I'm going duel War-maces with this guy. So FB is out, too many required feats, not enough extra feats.

EDIT: Actually, looking back over it, I would get the deathless frenzy ability at 20. Combining that With the Wrathful Healing enchant.. :smalleek:

You know, I may just drop the Warmaces entirely and pick up a Goliath Greathammer.

[Urpriest]

Since you're using Warmaces, Exotic Weapon Master could give you a few options. Bloodclaw Master, or just some Warblade, would be nice for a TWF build.

[LanSlyde]

Since you're using Warmaces, Exotic Weapon Master could give you a few options. Bloodclaw Master, or just some Warblade, would be nice for a TWF build.

Looked over EWM. I like the concept, but I'll hold off final judgement for now. As for ToB material, My group tends to disallow ToB unless everyone chooses a ToB class. We like the content, but think everything in that book is too imbalanced in comparison to the rest 3.5.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Looked over EWM. I like the concept, but I'll hold off final judgement for now. As for ToB material, My group tends to disallow ToB unless everyone chooses a ToB class. We like the content, but think everything in that book is too imbalanced in comparison to the rest 3.5.

@anyone else who would comment:

Their understanding of balance is probably more limited than the general populace of this board, let's try to refrain from derailing the thread with arguments about why this is "wrong." If it gets derailed now, it'll probably never get back on track and the fellow won't get the advice he was looking for.

@OP, tome of battle is reasonably balanced in comparison to its martial contemporaries at a certain level of optimization. You apparently don't play at that level of optimization. Extensive research or the impending posts may change your opinion.

[LanSlyde]

@anyone else who would comment:

Their understanding of balance is probably more limited than the general populace of this board, let's try to refrain from derailing the thread with arguments about why this is "wrong." If it gets derailed now, it'll probably never get back on track and the fellow won't get the advice he was looking for.

@OP, tome of battle is reasonably balanced in comparison to its martial contemporaries at a certain level of optimization. You apparently don't play at that level of optimization. Extensive research or the impending posts may change your opinion.

I'm not sure if the first half of that was supposed to be condescending or not. :smallconfused:

Secondly, feel free to pose your arguments to the contrary. I'm always open to the possibility of being wrong.

Finally, I suppose I should have included the fact that this guy would be duel-wielding Warmaces. So yeah, any ideas that can keep the barbarian/CoG with TWF would be appreciated.

[Kelb_Panthera]

I'm not sure if the first half of that was supposed to be condescending or not. :smallconfused:

Secondly, feel free to pose your arguments to the contrary. I'm always open to the possibility of being wrong.

Finally, I suppose I should have included the fact that this guy would be duel-wielding Warmaces. So yeah, any ideas that can keep the barbarian/CoG with TWF would be appreciated.

I meant no condescention. Sorry if I gave that impression. I'm just tired of seeing threads derailed when somebody makes a negative comment about ToB, and like I said a derail at this point would make it very difficult to get back on point.

I honestly don't feel strongly enough about it to try and convince you.

Have you considered a quick dip in duskblade or warmage then rage mage. Those blasty spells get near full power with no problem, thanks to spell rage.

[Mithril Leaf]

I'm not sure if the first half of that was supposed to be condescending or not. :smallconfused:

Secondly, feel free to pose your arguments to the contrary. I'm always open to the possibility of being wrong.

Finally, I suppose I should have included the fact that this guy would be duel-wielding Warmaces. So yeah, any ideas that can keep the barbarian/CoG with TWF would be appreciated.

It was intended to stave off the inevitable comments on how ToB is in fact much better balanced in comparison to everything in the game than most martial classes. It is, but saying anything to the contrary has a tendency to incite a bit of bickering. Ignore ToB if your group doesn't like it, or possibly show them some of the statistics showing how it is in fact balanced.

On the topic of those levels, since you'll have decent enough wisdom, maybe a level or two in psychic warrior to grab expansion and another power would be worthwhile. It'd cost a level of BAB though.

[LanSlyde]

I meant no condescention. Sorry if I gave that impression. I'm just tired of seeing threads derailed when somebody makes a negative comment about ToB, and like I said a derail at this point would make it very difficult to get back on point.

I honestly don't feel strongly enough about it to try and convince you.

Have you considered a quick dip in duskblade or warmage then rage mage. Those blasty spells get near full power with no problem, thanks to spell rage.

Took a look at the Duskblade, Warmage, and Rage Mage. I would dip into them, but between two assassins and a Blood Magus we kinda have the arcane side of things covered. The only other divine caster we have is a Ranger who can't decide on a PrC (she's new:smalltongue:).


It was intended to stave off the inevitable comments on how ToB is in fact much better balanced in comparison to everything in the game than most martial classes. It is, but saying anything to the contrary has a tendency to incite a bit of bickering. Ignore ToB if your group doesn't like it, or possibly show them some of the statistics showing how it is in fact balanced.

On the topic of those levels, since you'll have decent enough wisdom, maybe a level or two in psychic warrior to grab expansion and another power would be worthwhile. It'd cost a level of BAB though.

Hmm, I'll consider it. Expansions always been fun, but to be honest I'm not really keen on playing another psionic class any time soon. (Played a psion with a sociopathic psicrystal in the last campaign)

I've always been keen on divine casters myself. Clerics are out tho.. playing one in the current campaign.

[Kelb_Panthera]

If we're looking at divine casters, have you considered Divine Crusader or Contemplative to expand your spell options? Both are in complete divine.

[LanSlyde]

If we're looking at divine casters, have you considered Divine Crusader or Contemplative to expand your spell options? Both are in complete divine.

I looked, and I thanks for all the advice, but I'm probably going to just fill out those last few levels with barbarian. Unless of course you know of another class that would continue to advance my rage ability.

[Quirp]

Mythic Exemplar and Squire of Legend (both Complete Champion) let you choose between several paths, which grant diferent abilities. SoL is only three levels long, grants 2/3 casting progression and helps you help your team. They might be worth a look.

[Kelb_Panthera]

I looked, and I thanks for all the advice, but I'm probably going to just fill out those last few levels with barbarian. Unless of course you know of another class that would continue to advance my rage ability.

If you insist on going with more barb, consider dropping that last level of CoG so you can make barb 11 and get improved rage. You might also consider the reckless rage feat in RoS if you haven't picked it up already.

[LanSlyde]

Mythic Exemplar and Squire of Legend (both Complete Champion) let you choose between several paths, which grant diferent abilities. SoL is only three levels long, grants 2/3 casting progression and helps you help your team. They might be worth a look.

I might go with Mythic Exemplar. It will depend on what happens once we get that far.


If you insist on going with more barb, consider dropping that last level of CoG so you can make barb 11 and get improved rage. You might also consider the reckless rage feat in RoS if you haven't picked it up already.

Actually CoG levels and barbarian levels stack to determine how often you can rage and how effective your rage is (when you acquire Greater Rage, mighty, tireless, etc).