Dragon versus Dragon and Dragon's Dragon

[MrRigger]

Playing in a RL campaign at the moment and the BBEG and his Dragon have appeared, or so it appears.

The players:

Me: Lawful Good Silver Dragon 4 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8002450&postcount=108)//Archivist1/Binder1/Archivist+2, with Persist Spell fun coming online for me at level 7 (via Metaphysical Spellshaper), then dipping Contemplative for Magic Domain and then into Dweomerkeeper, the most optimized of the party. Not the best spellbook right now, but I'm working on it. Concentrated on buffing right now.

Neutral Good Angel 4 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8029656&postcount=154)//Warblade 4, planning on staying in both until level 20. Warblade 20 is solid, and he gets cleric casting from his Angel class. Not a particularly optimized player, but willing to take advice. The main melee attacker and nominal tank (though I have more HP and AC at the moment).

Chaotic Good Pyroclastic Dragon 4 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8697418&postcount=671)//Psion 4, Telepath discipline, planning on staying in both classes until 20, not optimized at all, to the point of having no offensive Psion Powers at all. Player is stubborn and not particularly prone to taking advice. Not really sure what his place in the party is just yet, as he's been largely ineffectual outside of his breath weapon so far.

Neutral Gloom 4 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8017974&postcount=129)//Rogue 4, I think he's planning on going Shadow Dancer at some point, I'm honestly not quite sure. Focused on Sneak Attacking. Also our trap detection and skill monkey.

With that out of the way, here's the basic situation. We're adventuring around the Forgotten Realms, and a number of plotlines have taken off, including an organized Orc horde, mysterious weather and a puzzle filled tower in the Anauroch Desert, several trips to the Demi-Plane of Dreams in our sleep, and most importantly, a Red Dragon has appeared, abducting several field clerics and paladins of my church (Wee Jas).

The Red Dragon has recently advanced to the Wyrm age category, so he's obviously not a combat encounter just yet, and mostly likely a BBEG of at least one plotline. He's known for savaging other dragons and consuming them, ruthlessly expanding his territory, and generally being a Chaotic Evil Red Dragon. Haven't personally met him yet, but a Wyrm Red Dragon is a Wyrm Red Dragon.

His Dragon is another True Dragon, a Mature Adult Shadow Dragon. Not a combat encounter just yet, but we'll probably end up fighting him at some point. Both I and the Pyroclastic Psion have met him and walked away, likely because we'd have been slaughtered if we got in a fight and our DM doesn't want to wait for us to build new PCs.

Another possible concern is an Elven Necromancer (some sort of Sorcerer, perhaps Dread Necromancer, but definitely spontaneous Arcane casting) that has worked with the Wyrm Red Dragon a number of times over the past two hundred years, but nothing suggests his involvement with this situation just yet. Worth looking out for, though.

With this information in mind, what suggestions can you give me for making sure we don't end up with a TPK the first time we end up in a fight with these guys. Death Ward and True Seeing for the Shadow Dragon, Resist Energy/Energy Immunity (Fire) for the Red Dragon, and Shivering Touch in general, but I don't want to pin my hopes to one plan, especially since enemies that measure their age in centuries are smart enough to figure out Energy Immunity (Cold), especially when one of the party is a Silver Dragon.

So, what are some of your preferred methods for dealing with Dragons, or any BBEG where you know their identity but are too weak to do anything at your current level?

MrRigger

[Randomguy]

The hide from dragons spell is nice at higher levels. Antidragon Aura, Aura of Evasion and Suppress breath weapon wouldn't hurt, either.

The Oneiromancy feats from Heroes of Horror may come in handy, given there's a dreamscape. Finding out the enemies greatest desire/fear might also be useful.

You're all (practically) immortal. You could try pulling a Xorvintaal-worthy play if you get the opportunity. Try saving a young child/adolescent from a disaster that the red dragon causes (but not his family), and then keep an eye on him through his childhood to make sure he grows up swearing revenge on that dragon, and becomes a dragonslayer. Or something like that.

Political plays and the like might also be useful. The angel in general should probably have a lot of religious influence, by virtue of being an angel. Try to gain as much political power as possible. If it's practical, gain the power through a proxy that can't be traced back to you. Or create an identity for a proxy, or something.

[MrRigger]

The hide from dragons spell is nice at higher levels. Antidragon Aura, Aura of Evasion and Suppress breath weapon wouldn't hurt, either.


I knew about Hide From Dragons, but I hadn't searched out the others just yet. Suppress Breath Weapon in particular would be excellent against the Shadow Dragon.


The Oneiromancy feats from Heroes of Horror may come in handy, given there's a dreamscape. Finding out the enemies greatest desire/fear might also be useful.


I'll talk with my DM about these and see if they would be worth taking or not. I've got my feats pretty well planned out, and I don't think my DM is actually using the HoH rules for Dreamscapes, as I don't think he's read that particular book cover to cover (I haven't, and I've read a lot more 3.5 books than he has, but he might have). I have a feeling he's playing a bit more fast and loose with that plotline, but that's appropriate, since dreams are fairly mutable.


You're all (practically) immortal. You could try pulling a Xorvintaal-worthy play if you get the opportunity. Try saving a young child/adolescent from a disaster that the red dragon causes (but not his family), and then keep an eye on him through his childhood to make sure he grows up swearing revenge on that dragon, and becomes a dragonslayer. Or something like that.


That is a good idea. The Red Dragon has been involved in many major events throughout the history of the world, so he's certainly made enemies (though many of those enemies were subsequently eaten), and with his recent attacks on the church of Wee Jas, he's made an enemy of a fairly large organization, so I should be able to get someone else to help fight my battles for my while I'm dealing with the other plotlines.

Personally, one of the things I've always wanted to try doing is wait until I'm high enough level that a +1 sword (or equivalent) is vendor trash instead of a valued weapon, then go to a random town and wake some poor Commoner1 up in the middle of the night, get the Dancing Lights, Ghost Sound, and assorted mist effects going on, and tell them they are the prophesied one, and present them with a magic item worth more than they'd probably ever see as a Commoner, and tell them to go forth and <perform action here>. Even better if you do this half a dozen times and give them conflicting goals and then go on a Plane Hopping adventure. Might be tough to justify doing as a Lawful Good character, though.


Political plays and the like might also be useful. The angel in general should probably have a lot of religious influence, by virtue of being an angel. Try to gain as much political power as possible. If it's practical, gain the power through a proxy that can't be traced back to you. Or create an identity for a proxy, or something.


Actually, the Angel already has something like that in mind. He plans on taking Leadership (so do I) and building a city/coalition of churches somewhere in the Daellands, bringing in all the churches he can (he follows Heironious and I follow Wee Jas, so that's two big churches right there, now it's a matter of attracting a few other churches and getting enough start up money). I'd like to end up building a school of magic as well, so I end up with a horde of loyal magic users I can call on if need be. If we are allowed to take Leadership (we have to make it to APL 10 with no party deaths, something more difficult than it sounds as common sense is not something the other players are blessed with an abundance of), I imagine our cohorts will end up running most of the day to day stuff, but actual untraceable proxies are less likely due to nobody in the party other than the Gloom Rogue being particularly subtle.

Thanks for the suggestions, I'll keep them in mind. Anybody else have anything to add?

MrRigger

[Randomguy]

Personally, one of the things I've always wanted to try doing is wait until I'm high enough level that a +1 sword (or equivalent) is vendor trash instead of a valued weapon, then go to a random town and wake some poor Commoner1 up in the middle of the night, get the Dancing Lights, Ghost Sound, and assorted mist effects going on, and tell them they are the prophesied one, and present them with a magic item worth more than they'd probably ever see as a Commoner, and tell them to go forth and <perform action here>. Even better if you do this half a dozen times and give them conflicting goals and then go on a Plane Hopping adventure. Might be tough to justify doing as a Lawful Good character, though.

MrRigger

It would probably be easier to justify if you make him do stuff that's actually useful, and don't give contradicting orders. Have him weaken the Red Dragon's power base, if you can. And try not to send him on suicide missions, but make sure you go after him and retrieve the equipment if he dies, and give it to the next person.

For extra fun, hire a seamstress to make a particular outfit to go with the gear, and pass the outfit on with the equipment. You could end up making a warrior of Legend, like Link.