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Arkwright
2012-08-04, 08:26 AM
Currently I am GMing a game and I need to give my players a lair.

They've just joined an ancient order (suffering from the Capital Letters Are Magic trope) and are about to teleport out into an evil-aligned city which it is their job to bring down.

Anyway, I want to give my characters a base/lair to start them off, with some rudimentary gear and a small stock of gold.

I am having difficulty coming up with a justification and a location/styling for the lair. My requirements are that it is large enough for 8+ people without being indiscreet and that it has survived 50+ years without discovery or demolition.

The city is a metropolis, in the Pathfinder Golarion setting.

So, can I get your ideas on what would be good justifications and styles for this lair I want to give my players?

Arranis Thelmos
2012-08-04, 08:40 AM
Next time they do a dungeon crawl, one of the hooks could be that the nearby villiage will let the PC's keep the dungeon as long as it cleared out and repaired so it reflects well on the community. That leads into further hooks as the party meets a band of stonemasons who will repair the dungeon if the party will do another quest for them. And then they can meet some interior decorators....

(and so on and so forth.)

Arkwright
2012-08-04, 08:46 AM
Ahh sorry did not make this clear-

The lair belongs to the Order they've just joined; its one they haven't used since the order has been inactive for the past 50+ years but my players are able to find it and use it.

Finding it shouldn't be an issue, the order has a symbol and the players have about 8 street urchins on their side who should be able to go "hey, i've seen that logo before!"

Arranis Thelmos
2012-08-04, 09:01 AM
Oh, so it would just be part of their starting package from joining the order. It sounds like they haven't been using it for the last 50+ years anyway.

Rockphed
2012-08-04, 09:04 AM
The best way to hide is in plain sight. Put up the kinds of signs bumbling idiots use, and then pretend to be bumbling idiots. You can probably get a couple levels of adventuring out of "Totally not a sekrit hideout for ANCIENT CULT OF GOODNESS".

Arkwright
2012-08-04, 09:05 AM
Probably need some background I suppose.

Order is a group of 8/9/10/whatever people who try to overthrow the city; all but one got killed, last one just made my PCs the new Order.
50 years has passed between old order being slaughtered and my new PC Order.

Idea is that base is one of the Orders' safehouses/bases, I am thinking of writing in one or two around the city but I want to give them a single one to start off with.

Kol Korran
2012-08-04, 09:12 AM
hhhmmmm... a few ideas:
- first, why shouldn't it be quite in the open? the order has a few spies in the city, and one of them is running a little place, where they can stay in. this could be some sort of a lowly inn (with a few "exquisite" facilities for the discerning customer), perhaps a shop? (and the party take one the roles of patrons/ hired help/ mercenaries to protect it at these rough times?) hey, why niot even an actual small time mercenery guild, where each team get their own place to use? (and some of the other teams might be either counter spies, or people with some other agenda of their own). this could also be a small temple of a god few care for, but none have the time or desire to get of the way (which may in fact belong to some trickster/ stealth god?)

- in the sewers/ swamp/ garden/ ruins there is what is left from the laboratory of a rival to the city rulers. but the place is protected by a ghost, so few deal with it. (perhaps the ghost of the mage? or his lover?). but the order knows how to win the ghost to their side... and the tales it can tell. of the city rulers, and the dark secrets of the order itself...

- if the city has docks, here are two ideas, some simpler one more complex: merchants are known to rent some of the warehouses for their use. this being a not so legit city (or so i guess?) few people inquire as to what happens, or what is stored in a warehouse. merchants are people with lots of money, and money can buy a lot of bad oppsoition for the inquiring thief. the order, under some guise, hire a warehouse for the party to use. it has been furnished by some agents of the order to their needs.

- or how about a ship? the order has some deal with a quirky/ nasty/ loyal/ spicy/ you build him rascal of a pirate, who comes to the town with a heavily beaten ship for "repairs" when they need him to. he will offer boarding, information, and possibly the help of his crew, and maybe a quick getaway. but pirates are known for their lust for gold. can the party keep him loyal? and his crew?

may have a few ideas later on... :smallwink:

Hyena
2012-08-04, 11:26 AM
What about some sort of dungeon under the city with the access from the sewer system? I suppose, if the city is old, no one really remembers every bit of the sewer structure - it works, leave it so. If the entrance is well hidden, it's quite believable.

Ghost49X
2012-08-04, 11:44 AM
it really depends on the location

In the city:
A noble's mansion or even in the King's castle, for he (or his family) supported or owes the old order a dept. So he'll let them have one of the towers or a part of the dungeon as their own (in exchange of course to being privy to what they're up to)
An old abandoned warehouse with an old sign with the paint peeling off above the door.

Outside the city:
If your metropolis is near the sea, maybe a hidden cove?
If near forest or mountains an old forgotten (maybe hidden by magic tower)
or how about on a demi plane? The old order had it connected to different doorways through out the world to provide quick travel to where ever they needed to be (some of which can be damaged or something) anyone walking near one of these doors belonging to the order activates it (with runes lighting up and stuff) allowing them to enter (they might require a key or something)

Hyena
2012-08-04, 12:05 PM
A noble's mansion or even in the King's castle, for he (or his family) supported or owes the old order a dept. So he'll let them have one of the towers or a part of the dungeon as their own (in exchange of course to being privy to what they're up to)
I do believe that if the Order was slaughtered in the past, and now they have to hide, this is for quite a good reason. For example, the goverment simply doesn't want the order to exist.

Rixx
2012-08-04, 12:17 PM
Apartment building.

Volthawk
2012-08-04, 12:26 PM
I'd just say a big basement/cellar. Maybe one of the Order runs a pub and the cellar of the pub is used as a base of operations for the Order. Means the place has a cover story for itself, too - after all, the beer needs to be stored somewhere.

Ghost49X
2012-08-04, 12:31 PM
I do believe that if the Order was slaughtered in the past, and now they have to hide, this is for quite a good reason. For example, the goverment simply doesn't want the order to exist.

That's probably not the whole government but rather a politically powerful person or group. There are always factions in politics that are willing to help the enemies of their enemies.

Gnome Alone
2012-08-04, 12:41 PM
the players have about 8 street urchins on their side who should be able to go "hey, i've seen that logo before!"

Wait, the players walk around with EIGHT street urchins? I can't decide if running a mobile orphanage is a noble use of the kind of WBL a PC has, or a staggeringly egregious case of reckless child endangerment. ("Ok, Charlie? If this statue starts spewing hydrochloric demon acid, uhhh... make sure you keep your eyes closed, alright?")

Eldest
2012-08-04, 01:47 PM
I think he meant that the urchins are friendly, not that they follow the party around everywhere.

I'm going to second the tavern. Have the tavern's sign have the order's symbol on it, and have the basement contain a trapdoor down to a subbasement with a few beds, some rusty gear, and some money.

Arkwright
2012-08-04, 08:51 PM
I am greatly liking the pub idea. Plus, it will give me a chance to use that which I loved most in Oblivion: Things Hidden behind Huge Barrels.

Razanir
2012-08-04, 10:33 PM
first, why shouldn't it be quite in the open? the order has a few spies in the city, and one of them is running a little place, where they can stay in. this could be some sort of a lowly inn (with a few "exquisite" facilities for the discerning customer), perhaps a shop? (and the party take one the roles of patrons/ hired help/ mercenaries to protect it at these rough times?)

This actually reminds me of the Order of the White Lotus. They run ordinary looking shops, but if you have the password you can get in. See "The Library"


I think he meant that the urchins are friendly, not that they follow the party around everywhere.

I'm going to second the tavern. Have the tavern's sign have the order's symbol on it, and have the basement contain a trapdoor down to a subbasement with a few beds, some rusty gear, and some money.

Exactly. Except if it's an ancient order, maybe have the building repurposed. You know, live in the basement the evil organization never knew they had :smallbiggrin:

Jay R
2012-08-06, 03:26 PM
Buildings abandoned for fifty years are warehouses, dilapidated houses, or some other generic building.

A warehouse near the center of the city is probably used by homeless people for shelter or by thieves for fencing their swag. An abandoned house in the suburbs? Then all kids nearby call it "the haunted house".

In any of these cases, there are some adventures involved in getting control of it again.

BRC
2012-08-06, 04:01 PM
The tavern sounds fun, but lets give it a twist.

The Order's old headquarters was wiped out in the purge. This Tavern Hideout actually belongs to a local thieves guild, who are renting it to the Order. The higher ups in the Thieves guild have given their okay (perhaps they owe the Order a favor, or the surviving member paid them off), but lower-ranking thieves will occasionally try to extort favors from the PC's in exchange for not revealing their whereabouts.

The Safehouse consists of a series of rooms, accessible from a hidden door in the basement of the Troll's Skull Tavern. The Thieves only showed the PC's two entrances, the one from the basement of the tavern, and one into the sewers. There are several others, which the thieves use to drop in unannounced.

This may have been an old Order Safehouse, but when the Order was slaughtered, the Thieves moved in and took it over.

Lord Il Palazzo
2012-08-06, 04:15 PM
Exactly. Except if it's an ancient order, maybe have the building repurposed. You know, live in the basement the evil organization never knew they had :smallbiggrin:Wow. This is almost exactly what I was thinking. There are few better ways to hide something than to put it in plain sight and make it look utterly boring. Maybe the PCs base could be accessed through a random closet or supply room in some public place. I was thinking an unmarked door that's either part of or on the grounds of some major and well known public monument. Every one would assume it was a closet or shed where the groundskeeper or caretaker kept tools and cleaning supplies and nobody would give it a second look. Maybe the door leads to stairs leading down (or up) into a hidden space, or maybe the monument itself is hollow and the inside of it is the base, or maybe the door leads into an extradimensional space (Magnificent Mansion (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magesMagnificentMansion.htm)-style; it would be cool if the space also had a few transdimensional windows that look out onto different points in the city.)

Alejandro
2012-08-06, 04:30 PM
It depends on how hostile/actively searching for enemies the target city is. In WWII, the French Resistance sometimes used actual hideouts, and these were often warehouses, the basements of taverns, and wine cellars (since they are so common in France.) However, the 'hotter' the area got or the more active the Resistance became, the less likely they were to use any actual permanent locations or structures, instead meeting in public and common areas under other, legal and unnoticed pretenses, reducing the risk of Nazi discovery of their actual 'base' and the slaughter that followed, since a 'base' did not exist.

Wyntonian
2012-08-06, 04:39 PM
Oooh, maybe underneath a cathedral! With a hidden elevator/rope thing coming down inside a "solid" portion of a belltower or something!


I dunno, it's an idea.

Hm. Maybe outside the walls of the city?

Lord Il Palazzo
2012-08-06, 04:47 PM
Hm. Maybe outside the walls of the city?Or actually built into a section of the city's wall?

Alejandro
2012-08-06, 07:36 PM
Oooh, maybe underneath a cathedral! With a hidden elevator/rope thing coming down inside a "solid" portion of a belltower or something!


I dunno, it's an idea.

Hm. Maybe outside the walls of the city?

French resistance members met in crypts and tombs, so you're not too far off there. :)

Lord Tyger
2012-08-06, 07:42 PM
Seconding crypts and tombs. There's a strong social impetus for people to stay out that decreases the odds of folks just wandering in. In a Pathfinder setting, you can increase this discouragement by setting up artificially aged traps, with the pretense that they were always there to protect the tombs. It could be that the original order contained a member of a noble house who made the family tombs available to the order, or perhaps the original order wrested control of them from the undead previously inhabiting them- some of whom may have moved back in the meantime.

Deepbluediver
2012-08-06, 08:27 PM
What about if the ancient order used to maintain an agent inside the city, whose job it was to keep the secret base ship-shape and inconspicuous. After the order let contact and support laps, their agent eventually started working for himself. The Pub idea mentioned a couple of posts ago would work well, especially for concealing the comings and goings of a large number of people, but he could also be merchant or craftsman of some kind; maybe dealing in adventuring gear or magic items. If you want, have them run a small side business selling information.

Since 5 decades have passed, maybe the original agent retired or died, and it's now his son or grandaughter who runs the establishment. Having never known the order, they might be reluctant to help the heroes at first. They could provide a basement to hide out in, but only after the heroes prove themselves will they be willing to help out with more tangible benefits.
Or, this distant relative doesn't know all of the secrets of the building they've inherited, and your group can prove that their word is true by finding a secret room or passage, which could lead to other buildings or an underground tunnel system.

Alternatively, if your group doesn't do well, maybe they would start to consider that it isn't worth the risk, and they could do better by double-crossing the group and leading the local law-enforcement to the hideout.

Arkwright
2012-08-07, 05:09 AM
Some brilliant ideas here. I greatly like the tavern hideout, and i've come up with a similar idea. The hideout will be a few rooms hidden underground with a secret entrance through a huge rotted barrel, located in the basement of a brothel.

It's going to be great fun having the Order's symbol on the barrel, and when it shows up magically on one of the characters the street urchins go "hang on, we've seen that symbol before..." and take them to the brothel.

All these ideas are definitely going to be handy- it could be a long campaign and there is no reason why the Order couldn't have had multiple bases scattered throughout the city. Probably more likely that there are multiple bases, to decrease chances of them all being discovered and to give more varied hiding places.

SilverSheriff
2012-08-07, 05:53 AM
An old Asylum once run by Elderly members of the Order who are no longer fit for active duty and once took care of the mentally ill before the place was purged 50 years ago by a crowd who were quite unhappy with the pained wails and gibbering of the in-mates.

Hopeless
2012-08-09, 05:42 AM
Currently I am GMing a game and I need to give my players a lair.

They've just joined an ancient order (suffering from the Capital Letters Are Magic trope) and are about to teleport out into an evil-aligned city which it is their job to bring down.

Anyway, I want to give my characters a base/lair to start them off, with some rudimentary gear and a small stock of gold.

I am having difficulty coming up with a justification and a location/styling for the lair. My requirements are that it is large enough for 8+ people without being indiscreet and that it has survived 50+ years without discovery or demolition.

The city is a metropolis, in the Pathfinder Golarion setting.

So, can I get your ideas on what would be good justifications and styles for this lair I want to give my players?

One of them has family there and reveals that underneath their townhouse home is a massive complex which they used to train and serve as a safehouse, however only members of the family know about it and anybody not of the family has to willingly undergo a forget spell to insure its location is never revealed, family members are given a worthless trinket that when they're at home temporarily restores their memory so they can gain access but also prevents them revealing it to non members of their family as well as critters able to read minds for example.