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AquilaRift
2015-01-21, 09:39 PM
I'm afraid I've lost track of the bookkeeping a little -- if I scribe one 1st-level spell and one 2nd-level spell into my spellbook, how much of Dak Algar's formula does that use up? RAW says 300 gp worth (200+100), leaving me with half. (By the time the others get back, Elias should have finished his copying.)

Kelvin360
2015-01-22, 12:26 AM
Normally, yes. But if the spells are from your specialty school, go ahead and halve the cost. GP expenditure represents special materials anyway, and the possibility that a specialist hasn't learned proper mystic shorthand for scribing spells of their own school is nigh unthinkable. Like, if I can say I'm good at math by way of being passable at calculus and awesome at geometry, it'll be easier for me to more efficiently comprehend and record, say, 'the volume of a cube is equal to the length of one side's being exponentially multiplied to the third power' to 'Vcube = a^3'. One of those spells uses up way more ink.

AquilaRift
2015-01-22, 01:07 AM
That makes a lot of sense and is beneficial to me, so I accept it with enthusiasm. :smallcool:

AquilaRift
2015-01-26, 01:53 PM
At this point, it's just Orin and Elias, I think. (Last of the original party.)

EDIT: Damn, I'll have to backread and check. I don't remember when we offered to let Adrexah stay there. (Not saying it didn't happen, just that I don't remember it.)

WindStruck
2015-01-26, 06:48 PM
Well, Adrexah slept over.. once, so far. The night before they set off to the grove.

Kelvin360
2015-02-02, 05:11 PM
Sorry about my lateness. Things happened.

AquilaRift
2015-02-02, 05:15 PM
Things happen to us all. (And have.) Take your time.

AquilaRift
2015-02-15, 04:49 PM
I've gotten mixed up -- is the trial tomorrow, or the day afterwards? If it's tomorrow there's probably no way we'll be able to raid the mausoleum before I take Davand home.

Kelvin360
2015-02-15, 05:55 PM
I've gotten mixed up -- is the trial tomorrow, or the day afterwards? If it's tomorrow there's probably no way we'll be able to raid the mausoleum before I take Davand home.

Both! The trial is tomorrow, but Davand is released the day after the trial.


Sorry, it's been so long, I'm forgetting what exactly there is to do, which was requested by the messenger. Was only finding what happened to the missing caravans mentioned? Oh right, and there was also something about Thorard... um, but I can't make heads or tails of that.

Thorard's mission has been...resolved. Sort of. To Carston's specifications, anyway. So far your incomplete missions are just the trial and investigating the mausoleum, and whatever The Messenger provides starting now.

For that matter, we may as well get a running tally, since I presume not everyone is going to be attending the trial. Who's going and who will be off doing something else (presumably the mausoleum or whatever TM gives Adrexah here)?

AquilaRift
2015-02-15, 06:09 PM
It makes the most sense IC for me to attend the trial. Elias has put too much into the Chartessa case to miss seeing it resolved. On the other hand, finding out what's going on at the mausoleum is pretty important, too. It depends who else decides to go to the mausoleum once Elias fills them in -- Bria and Samnang alone are pretty well qualified to take down a necromancer cabal, so if they've got some support from other party members, I may not be necessary.

WindStruck
2015-02-27, 04:38 AM
I think at the very least, Adrexah is interested in going to the trial to get a better idea of what is going on. As for the mausoleum thing, she wasn't present when that mission was given, though I suppose Elias could fill her in? I don't even know what they're supposed to be doing there either.

Was that with missing bodies and grave robbing? Or those monk guys.. doing.. something? Been too long since I read up what you all did...

MLucas
2015-02-27, 05:46 AM
Orin also wants to go to the trial, and knows nothing about the Mausoleum.
He's done at defenders for now, and is only thinking about getting back to the house.


I'm on holiday next week, so may not have internet access.

Kelvin360
2015-02-27, 07:12 PM
Incidentally, everyone can feel free to skip back to the house - The Messenger has no dramatic proclamations before you go.

AquilaRift
2015-02-27, 08:41 PM
If the trial takes up tomorrow, we'll probably tackle the mausoleum on the day after tomorrow, after Elias has filled everyone in. That's the day Davand is released, though.
I guess we could bring Davand along to the mausoleum after we pick him up. His cause fear might be useful against living opponents, and it'll be a nice object lesson for him in Why Undead are Bad. (Elias likes unsubtle and potentially traumatic object lessons... he's not, actually, a very good mentor, though hopefully he'll get better at it.) The alternative is letting Davand stay in jail for another day or so while we clean up the mausoleum. In any event we're NOT leaving him alone in Chartessa's house. I'm not sure our ghostess is capable of keeping him out of mischief.

We'll discuss it further IC.

WindStruck
2015-03-16, 06:21 PM
I just have to admit. Sorry I've been so slow posting lately. I've been incredibly lazy and just not very into the game. Maybe I can try to keep up the pace again from now on...

AquilaRift
2015-03-20, 01:52 AM
Point of order -- I think Winds said Lea was going to find room at the inn.

WindStruck
2015-03-20, 01:54 AM
Um.. whoops! I mean...

You saw nothing!!

AquilaRift
2015-03-20, 07:17 PM
Is Adrexah still injured? If so, Elias will probably notice in my next post.

WindStruck
2015-03-20, 07:25 PM
Yeah. Arm still bandaged up. Probably should bum some healing off of Briah, but I guess we're not really thinking about it. Or want to be like hobos?

AquilaRift
2015-03-20, 07:28 PM
Or you could drink the potion I gave you at the beginning of the mission. :smalltongue:

WindStruck
2015-03-20, 07:43 PM
Oh you did? I completely forgot about that. And I don't even think I wrote it on my sheet...

Hmm.. but I don't think this is an emergency, so we COULD save it...

edit: come to think of it, I've been really bad. How much hp damage did that ape even do? was it... 4? 6? I can't find the exact records anymore. All there is is a text-based account of what happened.

AquilaRift
2015-03-20, 08:50 PM
You're right. It might be a better idea to save it, since you can rest up in the house and then have Bria heal up the remainder tomorrow. Potions are best for when you're taking damage in an unsafe situation.

Kelvin360
2015-03-21, 02:23 AM
And that's why everybody loves the party cleric, ladies and gentlemen.

Adrexah is at 8 HP and Lea is at 15. Thorard is down to 20. Incidentally, the party status box on the first page of this thread keeps up to date with PC health and effects, though NPC statblocks are only shown A) when relevant and B) when in combat.

So tomorrow I need to consolidate my plotlines vs. information given and write down the speech colors the NPCs use, among other things, which means I'll be doing more or less a full readthrough of both IC threads and the OOC thread. It'll take longer than the one day, but afterwards I'll put down any information available to all of you here, and then again in this thread's OP for easy access. Because I'm as tired of being confused as to what's happened as you are. Playtime will continue as normal while I do this. (Oh god I have to read stuff I wrote when I was 2 years crappier hellllp)


Also, tiny nudge to see if Winds is around.

AquilaRift
2015-03-21, 02:25 AM
Oh, excellent! (Looking forward to seeing if there's anything I've missed or forgotten...)

Winds
2015-03-21, 10:34 PM
I am. I've just stepped out of focus until the trial. (Other than whatever bookkeeping needs to be done about staying in the inn.)

Kelvin360
2015-03-23, 02:23 AM
Okay, I updated this thread's OP. Despite being DM, I am not omniscient, so I guarantee I missed at least a few things, even though my review was as meticulous as possible. So above all, if you need something clarified, *ask questions*. I'll endeavor to keep that post up-to-date as the party uncovers new information.

There are also a few things that don't really fit as 'lore' info and is just general stuff to keep track of.

This wasn't ever covered because everyone forgot IC and OOC, but Carston's job is technically completed, which means The Messenger can pay you for taking in Thorard.

Dak's scrying on Geoff: "Not as far as I know, but your missing impostor is. Strolled right into what looked like a bandit camp and asked to see the leader. He didn't seem overly bothered by all the swords and bows being brandished at him; he only repeated that he was there on behalf of 'The Brethren'. At some point, a giant of a man came to him and asked which of the Brethren had sent him. He replied that the face did not matter, only what was behind it. Apparently that was good enough, because the command was given for weapons to be lowered. The giant led the impostor to a fairly regal tent, and the first question asked was whether a disruption was carried out. The impostor said that the plan failed on account of lackluster performance by The Undertaker, to which there was silence preceding the leader drawing a knife and rather messily disemboweling him. The spell failed entirely soon after, but I caught mention of the killer speaking to someone out of sight about some nonsense with more code words. The words themselves were garbled, but Dragon, Spider and Wolf were all mentioned as pronouns."

I restructured some NPC stats, future and current, to make them in line with PC abilities. Elias has the lowest total ability scores at 82, so they've been increased to 80 points each. This is primarily a balancing factor in case things get dicey; you'll notice that before, Adrexah was technically a better cleric than Bria, for example. And in the case of Thorard, he actually dropped a few from his mental scores.


That's is for now, but my gut says it's not complete. Then again, in a sense, you've all barely touched the meat of the campaign, so there's going to be a lot more to sift through in the future.

MLucas
2015-03-23, 02:53 AM
Wow, that first post brings back so many memories - cant believe it's been what, a week? :)

One question I have (I always forget to record it) Is how much money and XP we have.
I think the numbers I had (673gp and 3250xp) were correct before we left town, but now I'm not sure;


Combat is Over!
Experience Awarded: 1,950
Total party XP: 5,200

What does that mean? :)


Miscellaneous finds: A small silver bracelet, a scroll with arcane inscriptions, 40 platinum, 600 gold, and 13,000 copper (coinage totaling to 1,130 gold)

Box: A pair of faintly-glowing bracers atop a pile of gold that takes up almost the entire box's space, 2,500 coins

I know I picked up the box and valuables (bracelet and scroll, presumably the money) - although I'm not sure Orin should have held onto them or given them to the messenger. Generally loot is fair game, but this was all stolen ... but isnt most loot?

Kelvin360
2015-03-23, 05:20 AM
Wow, that first post brings back so many memories - cant believe it's been what, a week? :)

God, I know. We've been running this campaign for two and a half years. But in game time it's been two days. And the campaign is slated to run up to level 20. I have a feeling players will start inhabiting nursing homes before characters get inhaled by any demons. X_X


One question I have (I always forget to record it) Is how much money and XP we have.
I think the numbers I had (673gp and 3250xp) were correct before we left town, but now I'm not sure;

What does that mean? :)

We're still using a combined party XP system, so everyone has roughly the same amount. So far, Elias and Adrexah have totals above that due to use of wizard mechanics and a solo encounter. Psionic-specific tasks for you and rogue skill challenges for Lea will offer the same.

Awarded XP is the total you gain from an encounter. The party total is how much you have after you add that to what you had before. Orin and Lea have 5,200, Elias has 5,390, and Adrexah has 5,300.

As for monetary gains, you should have 1,173 gold now and the party has another 750 to disperse. I'd have to check on Elias and Adrexah to see additional totals, and that's if they're up to date. Now that we're on the subject, are you going to be using a combined 'party fund' to just pool all the gold into? It's easier for bookkeeping but it's a royal pain to figure out what to buy. If Elias wants a ring of wizardry and Lea wants to add improved shadowed and silent moves to her armor, for example. I don't think anyone has really looted anything, either, so any gold you have is from The Messenger, which means Elias and Adrexah should have 500 each too (excepting the trading Elias did - my out-of-date sheet says he has 275). Lea just got 500 and then there's the 750 which, split evenly, gives everyone 187 gold and 5 silver more. All of this carries the *I THINK* clause.

You can see the problem, even though really it's not a big deal. It's not like you've been collecting the stuff hand over fist. I think I may simply wipe away most of the past events as a better blank slate, start keeping better records and round everyone's totals up. This would set everyone to 750 gold each with 750 in the pot (which actually gives Elias more but strips some from you) and I can list from there. I did some minor retcons for consistency when I went back through the thread anyway (notable examples include the riddle in the Void Room and the name of the Innkeeper) so that fits.



I know I picked up the box and valuables (bracelet and scroll, presumably the money) - although I'm not sure Orin should have held onto them or given them to the messenger. Generally loot is fair game, but this was all stolen ... but isnt most loot?

The implication was that the coinage and magic items you found were Witch resources, not stolen goods. Basically free loot up for grabs so the party doesn't end up with massive XP influxes and no corresponding coinage.

AquilaRift
2015-03-23, 06:59 AM
God, I know. We've been running this campaign for two and a half years. But in game time it's been two days. And the campaign is slated to run up to level 20. I have a feeling players will start inhabiting nursing homes before characters get inhaled by any demons. X_X

Hey, I'm in my 20s, we've gone up a level in the past 2 years... 17 levels to go... I won't even be retired by the time we hit endgame. :smalltongue: Also, hopefully once we get hold of the main plot, the action will go faster. You're a hell of a storyteller, Kelvin, and you've got more dedication than 90% of DMs on this board, but I think the pacing is the reason we've shed so many players.
(Though I guess we contribute to that too -- we spend a fair amount of time debating every little decision our characters have to make. Especially Elias.)


We're still using a combined party XP system, so everyone has roughly the same amount. So far, Elias and Adrexah have totals above that due to use of wizard mechanics and a solo encounter. Psionic-specific tasks for you and rogue skill challenges for Lea will offer the same.

My GP is up to date -- 271 and change. My XP wasn't until a minute ago. I'd forgotten it was group XP -- I thought I didn't get any because I wasn't present for the monkey fight.

Kelvin360
2015-03-23, 07:48 AM
Hey, I'm in my 20s, we've gone up a level in the past 2 years... 17 levels to go... I won't even be retired by the time we hit endgame. :smalltongue: Also, hopefully once we get hold of the main plot, the action will go faster. You're a hell of a storyteller, Kelvin, and you've got more dedication than 90% of DMs on this board, but I think the pacing is the reason we've shed so many players.
(Though I guess we contribute to that too -- we spend a fair amount of time debating every little decision our characters have to make. Especially Elias.)

That's kind of the whole idea, though. The campaign is very character-centric; you guys aren't adventurers, you're protagonists. Therefore, if you want to spend the day debating over fighting, that's where the resources fall. Personally, I find the roleplay-centricism of the group to be very relaxing. The more I get to know the characters, the better I can terrify them I MEAN specially reward them. I find most published campaigns to be too...'here's a fight now take a five minute breather then another two fights'. Then you're level 32 and you can't remember your character's last name and it's like, well, what was my agenda, exactly?

Maybe I'm trying too hard to justify it. A passing glance at my campaign notes says that everything starts getting more dungeon crawley and less complicated immediately after the trial, though.


My GP is up to date -- 271 and change. My XP wasn't until a minute ago. I'd forgotten it was group XP -- I thought I didn't get any because I wasn't present for the monkey fight.

It's so much easier to keep everyone at the same baseline for major fights like that. Also I don't think shafting the party wizard 2,000 xp is a good way to ensure we can handle mystical threats, Mr. 8 spells-per-day. :smalltongue:

WindStruck
2015-03-24, 11:17 PM
Well I finally got around to reading most of that first post. I don't think I ever recall hearing about an Illusionist that served the Witch before. Where was that mentioned?

Kelvin360
2015-03-25, 02:13 AM
Well I finally got around to reading most of that first post. I don't think I ever recall hearing about an Illusionist that served the Witch before. Where was that mentioned?


A/O/L

A deep frown creases the wilder's features. "Truthfully, I do not know the answer to all but one of those questions. I knew that the witch was capable of masking her movements with magic, but she seems able to do so at will in various other methods. Even after observing an attack firsthand, I could not say where the traders, nor their guards, goods, and animals could be found afterwards. Sometimes there are traces - broken wagons and discarded, empty crates. But only traces. And yet, the apes themselves leave visible tracks to the grounds they call home. They possess a makeshift fortress to the South, one I have observed from a safe distance many a night. If I were to guess...I would say that the witch and Blighter are not alone. Such powerful illusory magic could only be the work of an arcanist or a psion; misdirection is not a craft druids, even ex-druids, are suited to. And yet, I do not believe any of them will contest the elimination of the apes. For whatever reason, the illusionist, and whatever the witch plans to do with the caravans, is a closely guarded secret, and yet their primitive agents are entirely expendable. This implies that they have a backup plan that is at least as satisfactory, and that troubles me."

Maybe I should include a known power breakdown with the Organizations section.

MLucas
2015-03-25, 02:29 AM
Drats, I'd planned on showing Elias the loot in the evening to get it identified. Ah well, it'll wait.

AquilaRift
2015-03-25, 02:46 AM
He hasn't got Identify at the moment, so we'd probably have to take it to Algar in any case.

MLucas
2015-03-25, 03:01 AM
I figured as much - but Orin doesnt even know they're magical atm, afaik.

WindStruck
2015-03-25, 04:53 AM
Hmm, wait. I forgot... this trial isn't about Denara's murder is it? I thought it was about that girl that got killed by some evil clone of Davand and you're trying to pin that on Chartessa?

Well anyway, if it has nothing to do with Denara's death, her testimony wouldn't help, I don't think. Although Denara being mentioned at all confused me.

Point is, my post is probably invalid if it was clear the trial is only about the clones/girl murder.

AquilaRift
2015-03-25, 05:33 AM
Mayor says "both cases combined." To me that implies both the deaths of the elven girl and of Denara are going to be addressed. IC response coming at a more human hour because it's way too late where I am

WindStruck
2015-03-28, 08:28 PM
So, who specifically is the Baroness talking to?

I was thinking that perhaps I could give the mayor or whoever was being the main prosecutor advice, but I feel doing so would undermine their intelligence at this point.

Just. uh.. so, what exactly are we expecting now?

Also, do we get to assume Bria used one cure spell on Adrexah and she's 100% now? :smallsmile: (sorry, guess all the smalltalk got montaged!)

AquilaRift
2015-03-28, 08:33 PM
Good question. I have a post written up with Elias's testimony, but I'll wait to post it until it's clear that's an appropriate thing to do in this situation.

Kelvin360
2015-03-28, 09:14 PM
So, who specifically is the Baroness talking to?

I was thinking that perhaps I could give the mayor or whoever was being the main prosecutor advice, but I feel doing so would undermine their intelligence at this point.

Just. uh.. so, what exactly are we expecting now?

You three are the only ones directly involved who aren't 14 years old and semi-catatonic. The Mayor may have the most pull, but he wasn't in that basement.


Also, do we get to assume Bria used one cure spell on Adrexah and she's 100% now? :smallsmile: (sorry, guess all the smalltalk got montaged!)

Yes.

WindStruck
2015-03-28, 09:16 PM
So, um.. if she's expecting one of US to actually make a statement in a prosecutor's fashion. Well... I guess I can try to make the case? It'll just be a brief logical thing rather than a whole account of her testimony.

Ooor not. I guess Elias had it.

Kelvin360
2015-03-30, 11:26 PM
To pre-empt the question. Tyr the Lawful Good god of justice is common enough knowledge that you all know who he is.

WindStruck
2015-03-30, 11:53 PM
Hey Kelvin, while we're at it, I think I'd like to sense motive that woman now. I think I've listened to her long enough...

[roll0]

General question is, is she really being your average, stick-up-the-ass, holier than thou pain in the butt, or does it seem like she has some ulterior motive?

I also might get an additional +2 to this if she happens to be an elf. Never mind, she's a human, as was stated on the first post in the trial.

By the way I like this. First a verbal/moral thrashing from Adrexah, then the firm, calm you're still wrong logic from Elias.

Kelvin360
2015-03-31, 12:11 AM
She's slowly coming over to Elias' way of thinking, and she genuinely seems to think that Chartessa is behind it all, but there seems to be some kind of point to prove here, likely regarding acting with all the facts in place, playing devil's advocate to sort the truth, etc. So she's on your side...ish. But she also doesn't want anyone getting what they don't deserve.

WindStruck
2015-03-31, 01:40 AM
So... then Orin, who has been silent the whole time, ends up being the tie-breaker? Or will there even be a tie? :smallwink:

AquilaRift
2015-03-31, 01:44 AM
Depends what Lea says, too, I guess.

NGL, I'm a little apprehensive, given how worried the Mayor seems, but this is the decision that makes sense for Elias.

WindStruck
2015-03-31, 01:54 AM
Well, Lea won't get a vote in this little discussion it seems, since she's not one of those involved.

Adrexah doesn't really feel afraid because she simply refuses to believe that the people could stoop to that much idiocy. She's sure it's the right thing and wants to do it, but hey, I'm not saying she might not be having last-minute regrets if she happens to get lynched... :smallsigh:

Kelvin360
2015-03-31, 02:06 AM
So it's comforting to know that our established recurring themes still hold up.

Orin can't be affected in combat by anything other than himself.

Elias is the universe's butt monkey.

And Adrexah can and will piss off everyone of power the party comes into contact with. :smalltongue:

AquilaRift
2015-03-31, 02:37 AM
Aquila's First Law: the amount of use your DM will get out of your PC's backstory is directly proportional to that backstory's potential for tragedy.

MLucas
2015-03-31, 02:44 AM
Wow, that court scene progressed quickly. catching up.

WindStruck
2015-03-31, 07:01 AM
"Why are we focused so much on the bizarre? What of Denara's corpse found in Chartessa's home? Surely that murder is enough to convict her with no thought of the other charges?"
He looks over at Davand, "I also feel that Davand is being put on trial here too? I thought only Chartessa was under judgement today?"

Because 1) no one is contesting Denara's murder and 2) Chartessa was also confessing to the crime Davand would likely be found guilty for otherwise. And it would have worked too if not for that meddling Tyrran.

Care to try again?

MLucas
2015-03-31, 08:34 AM
Dont understand your comment - the point of the trial is to convict Chartessa isnt it? Wont that one murder do that?

Surely worst case is Davand has a different trial? (I know that people want him cleared in the one, but Orin's main concern atm is that Chartessa doesnt go unpunished).

edit: what's with the 'care to try again?' Orin is as confused as I am as to why everyone is worried.

WindStruck
2015-03-31, 04:30 PM
Eh... I just think you shouldn't be confused about what is going on. And neither should Orin.

The thing is, Davand is the one being blamed for that little girl's death. Even if you haven't been paying attention to anything until recently, it should be plainly evident that one jury member is blaming Davand for it and questioning Chartessa's role in the murder.

Chartessa will probably hang anyway because of Denara, but what's really at stake here is Davand. If we can make a convincing case that Chartessa was indeed involved in the murder and had her shapechanging lackeys or undead clones do it, then Davand is clear. If Chartessa is not found guilty for the girl's death as well, the only other person to blame will be Davand, and he will hang too.

So I'm saying 'want to try again?' because really, I felt you ought to have known this, and you might want to post ... something else?

AquilaRift
2015-03-31, 04:53 PM
I think some of the confusion might stem from the fact that you normally can't try two people at the same time -- but I don't have a degree in real-world law, much less Faerunian law, so *shrug*

MLucas
2015-03-31, 04:57 PM
Ok, I've deleted the post.

I was fairly sure that I knew what was going on - but that only Chartessa could be affected by this trial (isn't that how trials usally work? Perhaps not medieval ones.)
So I thought everyone was worried Chartessa would get off without any punishment, not that they worried for Davand.

I'm not sure Orin agrees with Elias that Davand is blameless btw - but that can come out in character. He doesn't trust necromancers.

I wont be posting tonight however, so Orin will have to continue his usual silent lurking for now.

MLucas
2015-03-31, 04:58 PM
I think some of the confusion might stem from the fact that you normally can't try two people at the same time -- but I don't have a degree in real-world law, much less Faerunian law, so *shrug*

Exactly this.

WindStruck
2015-03-31, 05:00 PM
Weren't you present at least when you guys interviewed Davand in the prisons?

MLucas
2015-03-31, 05:04 PM
Yes. I know he was manipulated into doing things for Chartessa - but he still did unspeakable things (and barely has control of his power - though Orin wouldnt understand that).
I'm not sure what you're getting at?

WindStruck
2015-04-01, 02:37 AM
Only thing he did that would even be close to a "crime" is using some necromancy to turn his former family into shambling corpses.

You know, usually this sort of thing is wrong because you're defiling someone else's body/grave without their permission, though these are quite mitigating circumstances when a family member does it because they miss them.

Yeah, the permission that probably matters more is that of the deceased, but they aren't really around to ask anymore anyway. So it's all just subjective in my opinion. I don't think there's anything inherently evil about turning a corpse into a zombie. And it's not "unspeakable" unless you're some uptight religious fanatic.

MLucas
2015-04-01, 03:02 AM
Interesting spin.
I had thought necromancy was against the law regardless of the reason? Is that not the case? If not, I'll reconsider Orin's outlook.

Definitely not socially acceptable at least?

I don't think you need to be a religious fanatic to dislike necromancy - although I agree unspeakable wasn't the right word. unconscionable perhaps?


Orin isn't religious (he's agnostic) but given that there's proof of life after death (Denara), he's not keen on anything that messes with the dead. He's hoping that Chartessa's death will allow Denara to move on - and he's not much bothered with what happens to Davand at the moment, although that may change - he's not seen the good in him that Elias has.

AquilaRift
2015-04-01, 03:47 AM
Well, the summon undead line has the [Evil] tag, as does anything involving creating undead. By the rules as written, necromancy is flatly an evil act. Elias knows this -- he just feels pity for Davand because the kid doesn't really understand what he's doing.

Whether or not this makes sense really depends on your interpretation. I think 3.5 never bothered to justify it. The Pathfinder party line (if I remember correctly) is that even mindless undead are created from fragments of dead souls and thus exist in a state of suffering, making it an evil act regardless of what you do with the undead afterwards. One fan interpretation I've read is that undead exist outside of the natural order -- nothing feeds on them, and when not controlled by a necromancer they mindlessly try to destroy life. (Even zombies and skellies are neutral evil.) It's creating something that has no purpose other than destruction. The problem with this, of course, is that the same logic could be applied to forging a sword.

As Kelvin's mentioned, FR canon is even more contradictory and tangled than standard D&D, so ultimately we need to defer to the DM.

MLucas
2015-04-01, 03:59 AM
That's interesting. I wonder at what point 'evil' acts become 'illegal'? (Presumably on a case by case basis).
I also wonder what evil acts aren't illegal - adventurers killing rather than apprehending seems a bit grey. We have the means to stop seriously injured people dying, but we don't use them (when I say we, I mean FR society, not our party - we're not so good on the healing or the trap detection ;) )

Given Orin is Lawful Neutral - he doesn't care about the evilness of the act or particularly the 'lawfulness', so much as the morality (as defined by his own moral compass).

I'm enjoying the discussion, but based on my vision for Orin, I think the posts I made were apt - although I've deleted them, so as to not interfere with the case (he can discuss the appropriateness of a low level mage taking on an evil apprentice at some future time :smallfrown:).

WindStruck
2015-04-01, 08:04 AM
Evil? Illegal? These are concepts that are entirely separate from one another. At one point in Germany, it was illegal to aid Jews and hide them from the Nazis. Whoops, just invoked Godwin's Law, guess I lose. :smallbiggrin: It's also illegal to litter, illegal to jaywalk, illegal to kill someone, but also illegal to do yardwork for a neighbor for a bit of money but not claim it on your taxes.

In some countries/states it's illegal to smoke pot and people are thrown in prison for ridiculous amounts of time. In other places the same activity has no repercussions. People who pirate software/media get the same sentences as rapists.

There's a reason alignment is broken into an axis that distinctly separates good/evil from law/chaos.

MLucas
2015-04-01, 10:06 AM
Yes, I'm aware of that. I thought I was fairly explicit in my previous posts that I was questioning when there's overlap, due to the mores of society.

I was pondering specifically in FR: of the things that are considered 'evil', which are also (In Fortunes Favor at least) considered 'illegal'.

Presumably necromancy is illegal, as Davand was arrested for that initially.

The question for Orin then becomes is time-served enough of a punitive punishment in this case?
Or is hanging the standard? Elias and the Mayor obviously think the former, and Orin will defer to them as they understand more about magic.
(It still creeps him out though.)


What are we waiting on IC?

Kelvin360
2015-04-02, 12:05 AM
You're waiting on me, I'm just hanging back to formulate my thoughts on what's to come.

On another note, ooooh, an alignment debate! Fun fun!

As was touched upon, every FR DM has a different idea of how the Realms work, and depending on who's running the campaign, I consider them all essentially canon, because that's one of the few ways to consolidate such a nebulous system. So here's how it works, broadly, in 'my' Faerun.

Necromancy isn't any more evil than any other school. It has its good (Raise Dead, for example) and its bad like any other school of magic, and in most of those cases you don't even have to try very hard to argue that some are even worse. For example, the entire school of Enchantment revolves around stripping another sentient creature of its free will, but nobody organizes copious debates as to whether all Enchanters must be evil. Mystra may be good, but magic is neutral like The Force is neutral.

It isn't a catastrophic break in universal law like some splatbooks say it is, but it is strictly unnatural because undead don't really belong on the prime, but neither do elementals, demons, or any summoned creature with fiendish or celestial subtypes. And the relationship between good-aligned civilizations and necromancers is a lot like the relationship between some sections of our society and Islam now. The portion that gets the most publicity are the guys who run around doing the worst they can with the power at their fingertips. But since magical freedom doesn't equate to religious freedom, they tend to get banned for general safety. Fortune's Favor actually runs on a part of the Lords' Alliance treaty, which makes them as against undead as Waterdeep and Neverwinter are. There's a healthy dose of burn-the-witchiness, too.

Davand wouldn't be executed for animation alone, but it's not something that gets you a warning, either. In all actuality, his condition is more of a threat to public safety than any spell he could cast. Aaaand I'm really tired, so I forget if there was anything else I needed to address. I guess they'll wait.


Also I wanted to make note of this.


he can discuss the appropriateness of a low level mage taking on an evil apprentice at some future time

Davand's too stupid to be evil. :smalltongue:

MLucas
2015-04-02, 01:36 AM
Also I wanted to make note of this.

Davand's too stupid to be evil. :smalltongue:
Hanlon's Razor :)

Ah thanks for clarifying all of that. I guess Orin wont be anymore bothered by Davand then any other magic user. (although he still doesn't like undead).

AquilaRift
2015-04-02, 05:30 AM
Yeah, his "condition" is a source of great worry for Elias too. But consider the alternatives, and the information available to my character.
(1) Davand is executed. Killing a Liferent is a risky prospect at the best of times, from the results of my (arcana) roll, and there's no telling how much negative energy he's already stored up.
(2) Davand is found innocent, or imprisoned but not executed -- it doesn't really matter much because either way, as a minor with no family, he's left in the city's not-so-tender hands. Three years at least before he's free, for that fear and resentment and untapped magical potential to fester and metastasize.
Neither of the above options looks like a good thing. And Elias might be smart but his discernment is not as good as he thinks it is. He's often convinced that he's the best qualified to make judgments about magic in any given group -- anyone less powerful is ignorant, anyone more powerful is arrogant and reckless. (Given that the arcanists he's met in the city are Davand, Chartessa, Dak, he... doesn't have much in the way of local counterexamples so far.) The conversation in the cellar was a moment of rare humility brought on by hearing his deepest fears and insecurities come out of the mouth of his freaking evil doppelganger.
The upshot of that whole psychological digression is that to Elias, taking on Davand as his apprentice/ward and keeping him from doing anything stupid and/or evil is the best of a slew of bad options.

MLucas
2015-04-02, 05:49 AM
Oh, I agree completely that it's the best option atm, which is why Orin's not commented on it, but perhaps another option is for us to take him to a guild to be trained (if such a thing exists).

Also, amusingly, Orin has the same opinion about magic users being Arrogant with power ... including Elias ;)

AquilaRift
2015-04-03, 02:59 AM
He's right. Not that Elias would ever admit to it. (We always hate most what we fear in ourselves...)

Kelvin360
2015-04-03, 12:47 PM
I-it's not a cop-out, it's a roleplaying opportunity! >_>

WindStruck
2015-04-03, 02:30 PM
Is she just allowing us to explain about the clones, or is she accusing us of being clones or some conspiracy to create them?

Eh, sense motive! [roll0]

AquilaRift
2015-04-03, 02:50 PM
I... did not remember Davand was sitting next to us, but Elias has the tact of a half-brick so it's a plausible IC decision. :smalltongue:

Kelvin360
2015-04-03, 05:02 PM
Is she just allowing us to explain about the clones, or is she accusing us of being clones or some conspiracy to create them?

Eh, sense motive! [roll0]

Dak brought up the possibility of the second, so assume either one or both at your discretion. Given her reaction wasn't 'BURN THEM' it's probably safe to assume the former though.

Kelvin360
2015-04-05, 08:02 PM
Okay, for those of you having trouble keeping track because that wasn't a description-intensive post, here's what happened:

Davand got off by a majority. By the rules of the court, he's cleared of all charges. Despite Dannis' proclamation against her, incidentally, the Tyrran actually acted either in your favor or not actively against you both times.

Chartessa, though, is at a tie. All four remaining Citygoers voted innocent, and all but one Townsfolk voted guilty, which means the final vote goes to the Baroness.

If you're wondering why that's a problem, I'll leave one of the first things you heard about her here.


The Mayor shakes his head. "I'm just not sure. She was always the closest to Chartessa, 'through thick and thin', she said. I'm not sure if that bias will carry over, but I thought you should be on your guards. On the off-chance she does escape, well..."

WindStruck
2015-04-05, 08:13 PM
Well, I said something. Hope that is good enough. It's just lunacy to think she gets away with Denara's murder.

Edit: how interesting. Now Adrexah is the one being rather calm and Elias is losing it. :smallbiggrin:

AquilaRift
2015-04-05, 08:56 PM
Elias held it together as long as he did because he was pretty sure that whatever else happened, Chartessa would be executed. He hasn't had a very good couple of days, even compared to the rest of the party.

Also, Elias is Neutral Good, not Lawful Good. If Chartessa walks, he's not going to faff around working on an appeal to an obviously prejudiced court. He will find another way to make her dead.

WindStruck
2015-04-05, 09:30 PM
Biased is interesting. I notice that in the way Kelvin describes the votes, all the city goers voted Chartessa was innocent....

AquilaRift
2015-04-05, 09:41 PM
Good catch, I didn't spot that.

WindStruck
2015-04-10, 07:52 PM
Adrexah will try to listen specifically for a sound that Elias described. A hissy whisper!

listen: [roll0]

AquilaRift
2015-04-22, 02:11 AM
Has Davand departed with the officials to be processed?

Kelvin360
2015-04-22, 09:56 AM
Not as you're speaking, no, although he will once everyone moves on to other business, assuming Elias doesn't simply forbid that he do so alone (or at all), which would be understandable.

AquilaRift
2015-04-26, 10:17 PM
I don't want to leave Davand alone here any longer than necessary, but I want even less to leave him alone in the Murals house while we stroll off to the mausoleum.

...I suppose Denara will be able to keep an eye on him. He's been there before (admittedly under Chartessa's direction) and no catastrophes have occurred.

Kelvin360
2015-04-26, 10:35 PM
You're electing to take him with you as opposed to leaving him in witness to the clearing process, then?

AquilaRift
2015-04-26, 11:30 PM
Haven't decided. I was just thinking out loud in case there was something I'd missed you could point out.

I'll ask further clarifying questions in my next IC post, since there's no reason Elias should know the details either.

WindStruck
2015-04-28, 06:10 PM
Is anyone else curious why the place is so abnormally cold? I bet one of those guys is the blighter...

Winds
2015-04-28, 07:20 PM
Details for leveling to 4:

Rogue 4
Added gained stat point to Dexterity

New HD: [roll0]

Also, shifted sheet to the new system on Myth-weavers, for whatever difference you feel it makes.

AquilaRift
2015-04-28, 08:19 PM
Seriously? There's no way a guy called "Draco von Bludenschlack" isn't a vampire. But Elias doesn't have the cultural context (or K (r) ranks) to pick up on the cues that are screamingly obvious to me. :smalltongue: He's just wondering why the Lathanderite is so unaccountably nervous around the Baron.

AquilaRift
2015-04-28, 08:22 PM
And, right, I've got to level Elias up. Spells won't be relevant until he's rested, but I'm putting the stat point in Intelligence.

HD: [roll0]

MLucas
2015-04-29, 03:14 AM
Tough deciding what powers to get.
Have gone with Psionic meditation just in case I lose Aral's insta-focus, and Biofeedback (all Orin's powers seem defensive!)

HP: [roll0]

Also, is there somewhere Orin could buy a masterwork (or better) quarterstaff?

MLucas
2015-04-29, 03:15 AM
Oh, and increased wisdom for bonus AC and PP.

AquilaRift
2015-04-29, 03:43 AM
Defensive powers aren't a bad idea, given that Orin is turning out to be the party tank.
I think there's a feat in Secrets of Sarlona that allows multiclass monk/psychic warriors to treat the psywar levels as monk levels for the purpose of AC bonus, flurry of blows, and unarmed damage. I don't know if anyone here has that book, though, or if Kelvin would permit Eberron-specific material in a Forgotten Realms game -- but I thought it was worth mentioning.

Also: Davand is a dread necromancer. Not a sorcerer. A dread necromancer. A Liferent dread necromancer.

...I think Elias may have just made the worst decision of his life. :smalleek:

MLucas
2015-04-29, 04:11 AM
The feat is Tashalatora - Orin will be taking that with the next general feat (level 6). I hadn't planned on making him psychic initially, or he would have gotten it at level 3 (I only got the pre-req at 3).

I'm not clear on what a Liferent is - i'm sure I remember it being explained OOC here though. Edit: The thread search function is great!

BTW - i'm not going to have internet access from tomorrow until tuesday.

Kelvin360
2015-04-29, 09:05 AM
Also, is there somewhere Orin could buy a masterwork (or better) quarterstaff?

You could get a masterwork++ quarterstaff from Kebur's shop and have Dak enchant it (same base prices as getting a magic weapon wholesale, just with two people involved) or maybe get one directly from the City's magic shop.


Also: Davand is a dread necromancer. Not a sorcerer. A dread necromancer. A Liferent dread necromancer.

...I think Elias may have just made the worst decision of his life. :smalleek:

To be fair, a dread necromancer is just a sorcerer with a bigger spells known tab and actual class features. But yeah, you're kind screwed.

On the upside, boy howdy is this kid gonna have some neat powers on him! :D

WindStruck
2015-04-29, 11:21 AM
A dread necro is a bit more than that, actually. Literally one of the most common but broken classes people attempt to play on these boards...

AquilaRift
2015-04-29, 02:12 PM
Broken? I thought it was generally considered Tier 3, about on the same level as another specialty caster like beguiler or bard. That's not the problem.

The problem is that a Liferent, as it was explained to me, gets more dangerous and unbalanced the more negative energy they use. I assumed, if he was a sorcerer, I could make an effort to steer him clear of learning necromancy spells in the future. That's not going to work when 3/4 of his spell list and most of his class features use it!

Which reminds me, I need to decide what spells Elias is going to add. Arcane lock for his abjuration, probably, but the out-of-school spell is another question... Maybe I'll go with see invisibility like I planned.

WindStruck
2015-04-29, 02:15 PM
Oh, and I also need to worry about levels. Kelvin, I lost all the notes we had when we talked about how I was thinking of advancing my character... that was like... a year ago or something. :smalleek:

All I remember is something about arcane heirophant, but I dunno. I wonder if eventually I could retrain my ranger levels into druid levels? Not all at once, mind you. :P

Also just a heads up: eventually I think I'd like Adrexah to get some levels in wizard and be a Diviner. :smallbiggrin: Do you think you could help me roleplay up some interest in arcane magic and learning it?

AquilaRift
2015-04-29, 02:39 PM
Oh, boy. I can only imagine the look on Elias's face when he learns what Adrexah's multiclassing in.

ETA: As for my own long-term build. Haven't really thought about feats, but I've got a tentative spell list planned out. Kelvin and I both know what prestige class I'm taking as soon as the plot allows for it. Besides that... I've been considering going Ruathar (Races of the Wild) for a level when it opens up, to get a martial weapon proficiency, and then finishing off with a couple levels of Abjurant Champion (Complete Mage) when my BAB is high enough, because swift abjuration, abjurant armor, and extended abjuration all fit Elias's specialty pretty well.
Ruathar does have that "render a great service to an elven community" prerequisite. But given that I'm working alongside two elves to uncover and stop a brotherhood of anti-elven conspirators, I doubt it would be hard to fit into the plot.

MLucas
2015-04-29, 03:47 PM
I always feel that I dont plan my characters well enough - perhaps I just dont know all the options.
Psychic Monk seems pretty fun though - in a couple of levels, it'll all come together I think (with Tashalatora).

Hmm. I wouldn't be able to use psychic fist with a quarterstaff, would I? Is there an alternative option that would?
Ideally, I'd like to keep just using unarmed attacks, but dont want to hold back damage potential :)

Winds
2015-04-29, 04:38 PM
There's the ki enchantment for weapons...lets you use a melee weapon and still use all monk abilities. There may be something similar for what you're after, but I don't have the psionic books right now.

WindStruck
2015-04-29, 06:42 PM
just to be clear. I'm not taking wizard levels YET. But maybe next level. Still, I'd like Adrexah to be interested... for instance... I think lv 4 ranger begins to have access to their own little pool of magics. I think that could really spark her interest in it, and it might be something else Elias wants to study. Well, even though it's divine magic.

Kelvin360
2015-04-29, 06:43 PM
The problem is that a Liferent, as it was explained to me, gets more dangerous and unbalanced the more negative energy they use. I assumed, if he was a sorcerer, I could make an effort to steer him clear of learning necromancy spells in the future. That's not going to work when 3/4 of his spell list and most of his class features use it!

Well this actually makes it vital that you level him as fast as possible. When he gets lich form at level 20 he'll be immune to Liferent's disadvantages. :smalltongue:

In all seriousness, recall that you were making a Knowledge check into one of your barred schools. Further research may yield loopholes.


Which reminds me, I need to decide what spells Elias is going to add. Arcane lock for his abjuration, probably, but the out-of-school spell is another question... Maybe I'll go with see invisibility like I planned.

But if you do that those wizard/assassins won't be able toBeshaba would be sad. Probably.


Oh, and I also need to worry about levels. Kelvin, I lost all the notes we had when we talked about how I was thinking of advancing my character... that was like... a year ago or something. :smalleek:

All I remember is something about arcane heirophant, but I dunno. I wonder if eventually I could retrain my ranger levels into druid levels? Not all at once, mind you. :P

Also just a heads up: eventually I think I'd like Adrexah to get some levels in wizard and be a Diviner. :smallbiggrin: Do you think you could help me roleplay up some interest in arcane magic and learning it?

Uhh...yeeeaaaaaah. I totally still have those notes. Like, of course.

I think Spirit Shaman, Diviner, Psion, and Arcane Hierophant were all on the list, yeah. You expressed interest in magically countering blindness, to some degree, or a least going a route that made it thematic. Ranger/Diviner/Arcane Hierophant would net you dual casting progression and make your animal companions absolutely horrifying, but if you want to buddy up to the Druid Grove and try retraining for Druid or Spirit Shaman or Shugenja or what have you, that's fine.


Oh, boy. I can only imagine the look on Elias's face when he learns what Adrexah's multiclassing in.

I know. At this point he's going to have to just hold seminars until everyone in the party has one wizard level.


ETA: As for my own long-term build. Haven't really thought about feats, but I've got a tentative spell list planned out. Kelvin and I both know what prestige class I'm taking as soon as the plot allows for it. Besides that... I've been considering going Ruathar (Races of the Wild) for a level when it opens up, to get a martial weapon proficiency, and then finishing off with a couple levels of Abjurant Champion (Complete Mage) when my BAB is high enough, because swift abjuration, abjurant armor, and extended abjuration all fit Elias's specialty pretty well.
Ruathar does have that "render a great service to an elven community" prerequisite. But given that I'm working alongside two elves to uncover and stop a brotherhood of anti-elven conspirators, I doubt it would be hard to fit into the plot.

Not hard at all. Incidentally, I handed over the OotSR supplemental outlines to one of the homebrewers on the forum, so you can access the updated PrC in question if you want. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=17544390&postcount=63) I'm tentatively saying that anything in that thread is free game for us, but it's...vast.


I always feel that I dont plan my characters well enough - perhaps I just dont know all the options.
Psychic Monk seems pretty fun though - in a couple of levels, it'll all come together I think (with Tashalatora).

Hmm. I wouldn't be able to use psychic fist with a quarterstaff, would I? Is there an alternative option that would?
Ideally, I'd like to keep just using unarmed attacks, but dont want to hold back damage potential :)

Psionic Weapon does what Psionic Fist does. Exactly what it does, but with weapons. So yeah, you could swap out those feats down the road if you like. That said, your fist base damage is going to be higher than any weapon you can find at around mid-levels. Stack a monk's belt and Superior Unarmed Strike...yeesh. I bet Elias could figure out how to enchant gloves or gauntlets like weapons too, if he feels like it.


just to be clear. I'm not taking wizard levels YET. But maybe next level. Still, I'd like Adrexah to be interested... for instance... I think lv 4 ranger begins to have access to their own little pool of magics. I think that could really spark her interest in it, and it might be something else Elias wants to study. Well, even though it's divine magic.

Hey, chemistry and physics have different equations, but they're both science. If Elias isn't comfortable going that far out of his way, Bria and her ridiculous ranks in Religion could probably teach you the rites to your own pantheon. But, again, the Grove is a fine option for keeping track of them nature bells and whistles.


What about Lea, Winds? My notes say she was originally a Swashbuckler, but I'm willing to bet the change was simply because we needed a rogue more. Any interest in dipping levels back into a full-BAB class, maybe something else?

Then again, with everyone else PrC-ing or psion-ing out, maybe there's something to be said for remaining a pureclassed character.

AquilaRift
2015-04-29, 07:19 PM
Well this actually makes it vital that you level him as fast as possible. When he gets lich form at level 20 he'll be immune to Liferent's disadvantages. :smalltongue:

In all seriousness, recall that you were making a Knowledge check into one of your barred schools. Further research may yield loopholes.

That's encouraging. Though I can still see this going bad in a lot of ways. I mean, seriously, apocalyptically, end-of-Revenge of the Sith bad.



I think Spirit Shaman, Diviner, Psion, and Arcane Hierophant were all on the list, yeah. You expressed interest in magically countering blindness, to some degree, or a least going a route that made it thematic. Ranger/Diviner/Arcane Hierophant would net you dual casting progression and make your animal companions absolutely horrifying, but if you want to buddy up to the Druid Grove and try retraining for Druid or Spirit Shaman or Shugenja or what have you, that's fine.

If magically countering blindness still on the table, can I recommend listening lorecall? It's druid 2, ranger 2, it's got a respectable duration, and if you've got lots of Listen ranks (which Adrexah does) you get blindsight 15 feet and blindsense 30. Spell Compendium has it, but I'm not sure what else.
Our PM conversation about the blindsight spell is irrelevant at this point, since apparently it's a druid/cleric spell in 3.5 and Elias wouldn't be able to cast it anyway.


I know. At this point he's going to have to just hold seminars until everyone in the party has one wizard level.

*muffled screaming*


Not hard at all. Incidentally, I handed over the OotSR supplemental outlines to one of the homebrewers on the forum, so you can access the updated PrC in question if you want. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=17544390&postcount=63) I'm tentatively saying that anything in that thread is free game for us, but it's...vast.

Aww... you nerfed breach. :smallbiggrin: (It needed nerfing, but part of me was hoping you wouldn't realize.) That said, Blindfolded Chess looks and sounds badass.


Then again, with everyone else PrC-ing or psion-ing out, maybe there's something to be said for remaining a pureclassed character.

I was originally planning on it, but then I got my hands on a lot more books than I had before. And you pointed me to the Spellbinder.

Winds
2015-04-29, 07:31 PM
*shrug*

Or go ahead and take Weapon Finesse as the next feat and be a very similar thematic character to the Swashbuckler. Or, since I invested in high INT, maybe I'll look at some of the dual progression options. Maybe. Pure rogue works just fine. (Or well, Rogue 19/Anything that gets a class feature 1.)

AquilaRift
2015-04-30, 03:23 PM
*shrug*

Or go ahead and take Weapon Finesse as the next feat and be a very similar thematic character to the Swashbuckler. Or, since I invested in high INT, maybe I'll look at some of the dual progression options. Maybe. Pure rogue works just fine. (Or well, Rogue 19/Anything that gets a class feature 1.)

I think Daring Outlaw (Complete Scoundrel) is the must-have dual-progression rogue/swashbuckler feat, if you choose to go that way. Insightful Strike looks mighty tempting with 16 Int, and those d10 hit dice and full base attack bonus are gravy.

I have a rough idea of what to do next, from my notes:
-Return to Murals home; install Davand; make sure he doesn't break anything.
-Bria's already with us. Pick up Thorard from the house. Find and collect Samnang Varran.
-Head out to mausoleum. Investigate with extreme prejudice.
-Figure out what to do from there. (If it doesn't turn up any new clues, return to the Messenger; there's this weird disease that's going around the town, that he mentioned earlier, and then there are the names of the people who voted to acquit Chartessa. Either way, we'll have a new mission.)

Anything else?

Winds
2015-04-30, 04:32 PM
I think Daring Outlaw (Complete Scoundrel) is the must-have dual-progression rogue/swashbuckler feat, if you choose to go that way. Insightful Strike looks mighty tempting with 16 Int, and those d10 hit dice and full base attack bonus are gravy.

I have a rough idea of what to do next, from my notes:
-Return to Murals home; install Davand; make sure he doesn't break anything.
-Bria's already with us. Pick up Thorard from the house. Find and collect Samnang Varran.
-Head out to mausoleum. Investigate with extreme prejudice.
-Figure out what to do from there. (If it doesn't turn up any new clues, return to the Messenger; there's this weird disease that's going around the town, that he mentioned earlier, and then there are the names of the people who voted to acquit Chartessa. Either way, we'll have a new mission.)

Anything else?


I settled on Rogue/ 17 Master Thrower 3. Easy way of getting ranged sneak, plus improved evasion and one of several other goodies.


As far as future plans, I would add that Lea's trying to find some troublesome warlocks...but I suspect they're involved with the mausoleum thing anyhow.

AquilaRift
2015-05-01, 04:00 PM
All right. I'll make an IC post soon and start moving things in that direction.

WindStruck
2015-05-01, 07:25 PM
Oh right need to roll for HP. Let's see.... [roll0]

AquilaRift
2015-05-01, 10:18 PM
...We don't know where this guy lies on the Kaius of Karrnath --- Strahd von Zarovich spectrum, yet. That may have been a deeply unwise thing to say. Let's hope he shrugs it off instead of deciding to make our lives more difficult than they already are.

Kelvin360
2015-05-01, 10:41 PM
Well, you DID want Elias to have some access to your pet theory. :smalltongue:

On an unrelated note, can you roll a Will save, WindStruck?

WindStruck
2015-05-01, 11:31 PM
Uh sure.. ok.. :smallbiggrin:

Just for the record, what she said was MOSTLY a joke. She's good at making terrible jokes that just annoy people more than make them laugh. I guess let's just say the chill got her thinking and she decided to make a joke of it.. and possibly see if it pushed the wrong buttons.

will: [roll0]

AquilaRift
2015-05-03, 05:28 AM
Seriously? There's no way a guy called "Draco von Bludenschlack" isn't a vampire. But Elias doesn't have the cultural context (or K (r) ranks) to pick up on the cues that are screamingly obvious to me. :smalltongue: He's just wondering why the Lathanderite is so unaccountably nervous around the Baron.


Well, you DID want Elias to have some access to your pet theory. :smalltongue:

I did not say I wanted him to have access to my pet theory. :smalltongue: But I'm keeping future OOC speculation and hypothesizing to myself, thank you all so much.

Winds
2015-05-28, 07:14 PM
I won't be able to post much if at all over the next several days, I'm afraid.

Kelvin360
2015-05-28, 08:39 PM
As a somewhat startling coincidence, neither will I. I'll be gone essentially all weekend, in fact.

Kelvin360
2015-06-03, 08:28 PM
I know Elias has a low Wisdom, but there's a paladin standing right there.

Incidentally, I believe Adrexah made it a point to not mention that Denara was still extant, so Lea may not know. She may have figured it out, but wasn't directly mentioned.

AquilaRift
2015-06-03, 09:42 PM
Good catch -- I confess I'm still a little confused as to the morality of this whole thing? I mean, Denara isn't evil and it's not like we've given up on finding the condition to let her rest. Does the paladin's code still dictate the destruction of undead?

In the meantime, I'll consider myself warned and not follow that up until we get back and Samnang is well away from the house.

Kelvin360
2015-06-03, 09:51 PM
Good question! Your max ranks in Knowledge (Religion) should do the trick. :smallamused:

AquilaRift
2015-06-03, 09:57 PM
:smallyuk: [roll0]
...:smallsigh:

Kelvin360
2015-06-03, 10:11 PM
I know the DM doesn't actually control the dice, but I'm good with taking responsibility for that. :smallbiggrin:

Yep, the paladins-must-slay-undead thing is pretty common knowledge. Depending on where you are, it might be one of a handful of things people know about them, and especially because the tangential slaying of the offending necromancer is of particular interest to arcanists who might want to keep on their good side.

WindStruck
2015-06-03, 10:18 PM
Eh, let's see how far Samnang gets before he wakes up with a few bumps on the head and bites all over him. :smallsmile:

(That is probably a terrible terrible idea that Adrexah just might do, don't make her do that!)

Winds
2015-06-06, 08:12 PM
I'm back!

Lea doesn't know much about any of the parties NPC allies, save the ones currently on the porch/Davand. Her knowledge of them is based only on observation. Since you can't observe anything about a being hidden from you and not referred to expect very obliquely, she doesn't know about Denara and her situation other than that Chartessa was on trial for her murder.

Kelvin360
2015-06-08, 01:35 AM
Now comes the question of whether Orin is staying to hold down the fort. Based on his reaction to the return, looks like he's looking forward to some more R&R than creepy mausoleums can provide.

AquilaRift
2015-06-08, 01:42 AM
On the one hand, we can always use an extra pair of hands when going into an unknown situation. Never split the party.
On the other, Bria and Samnang should have the front line pretty well covered, and it might be good to have someone with Orin's equanimity staying behind to keep Davand out of trouble (and introduce him to Denara).

MLucas?

MLucas
2015-06-08, 02:47 AM
Orin's 'home sweet home' comment was most definitely sarcastic ;)

Orin's not keen (understatement) on undead or those who are involved, so he'd rather tag along.

We can all be surprised at what Davand has wreaked when we get back.

AquilaRift
2015-06-08, 03:16 AM
Hopefully he'll be too scared to do anything disastrous. Worst case, Denara warns him off and he gets an early introduction to his hostess.

MLucas
2015-06-08, 03:23 AM
There's no chance he could do something to mess with Denara?

AquilaRift
2015-06-08, 05:22 AM
...nothing I'd know about in character. :smalleek: And I very much doubt Davand, the recently-tried-for-necromancy, is going to alert the authorities to her existence if he finds out about it.

WindStruck
2015-06-08, 06:51 AM
Maybe you guys had better get the two to meet while being supervised?

WindStruck
2015-06-26, 06:32 PM
Oh crap. Was going to respond to the IC, put it off, forgot...

I'm guessing Adrexah would go... but are you guys expecting a fight? For once she was dressed kinda nice and doesn't want to change.. :smallbiggrin:


Hmm, unless I can really think of something else she'd rather do. For instance. Really need to get more feed for the pets. I think I'm out. Eravan might be feeding Ferdinand for free, but at this rate Cirrus will eat all his tiny friends, and I know Chino has gotta be completely out! Shopping shouldn't take that long though, I think.

MLucas
2015-06-26, 06:39 PM
sorry I've not posted in a while - life's gotten in the way. I'll try to post this week.

Kelvin360
2015-06-26, 09:04 PM
Not to late for anyone to call in to other things. I'm not one to leave a split party hanging on one side, Adrexah just might not get to see combat.

...Uhhhh, not that everyone else will, either. Nope. Peaceful mission, that's for sure.

AquilaRift
2015-07-07, 10:56 PM
(I actually came up with several ideas for our fact-finding mission while I was out today, but I'll wait for someone to respond IC.)

MLucas
2015-08-06, 03:57 AM
Hopefully I'm back more regularly now. :smallamused:

AquilaRift
2015-08-18, 07:27 PM
Not dead. Have been busy. Post coming soon.

AquilaRift
2015-08-28, 01:00 PM
OK, when Orin shows Elias these items, are they still in the box? Because he's gonna react differently if he opens the box on a public street to see a veritable treasure hoard.

Kelvin360
2015-08-28, 03:03 PM
Looking back over the relevant posts, I would say yes. Both because removing them wasn't mentioned and it makes more sense to keep them in there as opposed to removing a bunch of items just to stuff them back in a different pocket.

Kelvin360
2015-09-05, 09:42 PM
Sorry I haven't been on target keeping the ball rolling for us. I mean to manifest a swift kick to the IC here within a day or so. You want to go ahead and roll that arcana check on the scroll for me now so I can roll it into a scene jump, Aquila?

AquilaRift
2015-09-06, 12:06 PM
Thought it was Spellcraft? Either way my modifier's the same, so:

[roll0]

Kelvin360
2015-09-06, 05:35 PM
What, like I'm supposed to know the rules like some kind of Dungeon Master? Please. :smalltongue:

Kelvin360
2015-09-06, 06:07 PM
I'm going to put down some off-screen healing for everyone too, while I'm at it. No need to go into a tense situation with damage already sustained.

AquilaRift
2015-09-19, 06:47 PM
Now, I wouldn't shell out that much gold to confirm that what's almost certainly an ordinary set of Bracers of Armor isn't cursed... but Elias? Absolutely would.

Kelvin360
2015-09-19, 07:13 PM
Almost-certainly NOT cursed? Have you been paying attention to the story so far? :smalltongue:

AquilaRift
2015-09-19, 08:12 PM
Hahaha. Yet another reason that thinking in-character and in-story is often MORE effective than metagaming.

AquilaRift
2015-10-01, 06:30 PM
You paying for this, MLucas? I'm fine with splitting the cost of identification and/or just pulling it out of the recently discovered hoard, since this item will allow Orin to protect the casters and ranged fighters more effectively and thus benefits the whole party. Once the mausoleum mission is over, though, we'd better discuss how party wealth is distributed. (In character, too.)

MLucas
2015-10-02, 02:22 AM
I figure Orin will pay for this atm - he still has the loot from the forest as well, which needs to be distributed :)

Kelvin360
2015-10-06, 12:39 PM
A little bit of imagery - this is generally what the construction of the mausoleum mimics:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f0/Mausoleum_von_Schr%C3%B6der_%28Friedhof_Hamburg-Ohlsdorf%29.ajb.jpg/362px-Mausoleum_von_Schr%C3%B6der_%28Friedhof_Hamburg-Ohlsdorf%29.ajb.jpg

Add statue, remove foliage.

WindStruck
2015-10-12, 07:36 AM
Just a heads up: I'm going on a trip, like an extended visit actually. So I might not be around to post that much.

Kelvin360
2015-10-18, 03:15 AM
I have an image! There isn't an indicator for your individual characters, but this is a map of the area.

http://i1328.photobucket.com/albums/w530/ADarkerTurn/map68x43_zpsic2vcrtx.png?t=1445068626

The party is in the southernmost hallway, at the four-way fork. Brown lines are wooden doors, black lines on each corner room represent the wall separating their interiors from the hallway. Notable is that the area technically has an domed ceiling, but it's either been covered up or left to become dirtied, and provides no natural light below. The central chamber has a more conventional roof that also covers the halls leading up to it, making entry infeasible except by the four doors around it.

WindStruck
2015-11-04, 10:31 PM
Oh didn't see there was a map till now. Interesting...

So, the coins are making that noise, correct? But coins by themselves don't do that. What is causing them to make that noise?

Kelvin360
2015-11-05, 02:29 AM
Everything about them and the tomes appears to make them artificially tantalizing. They look like the king's riches. They smell like warm metal. They jingle like flawless gemstones even at rest. And so on. But no, there doesn't appear to be a force making the noise.

And here I was hoping this was the part where Elias and Lea made their negative Wisdom modifiers earn their keep. :smalltongue:

WindStruck
2015-11-05, 02:45 AM
Cool. So how do you think a wolf would be affected by all this? Chino's just sort of been.. there.... kind of like the forgotten familiar. :smalltongue:

Kelvin360
2015-11-05, 03:17 AM
Interesting question! All of the affected senses are tailor-made to make the objects desirable in a materialistic sense, which is to say more apparently valuable. But most animals are interested in objects for their usefulness. In the case of books, quills, and bits of gold, it's fair to say a wolf might find them a bit odd, but not as inherently fascinating as someone who has learned to associate them materialistically.

AquilaRift
2015-11-05, 10:56 AM
Elias is unobservant and overconfident, yes, but he's also paranoid -- especially where magic is concerned.

[roll0]
[roll1]
[roll2]
[roll3]
[roll4]

Kelvin360
2015-11-05, 11:36 AM
The corpse is Illusion, all three piles are Conjuration, and the threshold is, oddly, Abjuration. The corpse also has a very, very faint Necromantic aura about it. While outside your area of expertise, it's pretty clearly not strong enough to be able to animate the thing.

WindStruck
2015-11-07, 07:00 PM
listen: cause why not

[roll0]

Kelvin360
2015-11-07, 07:47 PM
As the party passes by the door behind the iron gates, you hear a desperate sob from inside the central chamber. It is quickly silenced.

AquilaRift
2015-11-22, 01:56 AM
Did we actually trigger the ward on the other door by opening it before Lea disabled it, or is it triggered by crossing the threshold itself? And, more pertinently -- would Elias have been able to tell?

Kelvin360
2015-11-22, 04:36 PM
Your party didn't trigger it at all. It remained dormant until Lea disarmed it.

WindStruck
2015-12-20, 05:17 PM
Just for the record, I'm not unhappy with how the game's going... (perplexity and slow pace aside). Adrexah's attitude is more like lamp shading the silliness of soup can puzzles.

AquilaRift
2015-12-20, 10:55 PM
"Well, it sounds like a sheet of paper. I'm guessing you're referring to what's on the paper." -- Toph Beifong :smallcool:

WindStruck
2015-12-21, 06:35 PM
Should I assume general content of the letters has been shared? Or should Adrexah ask?

AquilaRift
2015-12-21, 07:37 PM
Elias just shared the main relevant point in-character, for what it's worth.

Kelvin360
2015-12-25, 12:50 PM
Hah. A year ago today we were wrapping up a squad of apes. I was delivering a cutesy rendition of '12 Days of Adventuring', too, but I don't think I have enough non-spoiler info to do it again. :smalltongue: Let's charge ahead into another year of hijinks and horror. Happy holidays, players!

WindStruck
2015-12-25, 01:17 PM
Wow, that ape thing was a year ago? :smalleek:

...this game moves too slow.

Kelvin360
2015-12-25, 03:39 PM
Wow, that ape thing was a year ago? :smalleek:

...this game moves too slow.

Mmhm. I think I can shoulder most of the blame for that, actually. I need to find a better balance between not wanting to pre-empt character actions and popping in to keep things on track. It's definitely harder without a universal posting schedule. I'll say this, though: I value that you crazy folks have stuck with this for upwards of 3 years more than I would value a blisteringly fast-paced posting schedule.

AquilaRift
2015-12-25, 09:25 PM
A lot of what slows us down is decision points. Having observed some other games: maybe we could establish a guideline, like "everyone should respond within 2-3 days, and if they don't it'll be assumed they have no objections to the majority course." That wouldn't be too rushed, but it'd also prevent minor conversations and arguments from dragging for a week or more.

I like having a committed group with a leisurely pace. However, we do shed a lot of players. I think WindStruck is a result of our... third recruiting thread? Winds is from our fourth. So the pace is a weakness as well as a strength.

Kelvin360
2015-12-25, 10:39 PM
Putting that sort of decision to a vote sits better with me than putting down a rule on my end. What's everyone else's thoughts on Aquila's idea? 2-3 days, and then I post as sort of a checkpoint between actions?

Winds
2015-12-26, 08:08 PM
Sure, why not.

WindStruck
2015-12-26, 11:06 PM
I guess only waiting so long is a good thing. Anyway, with this latest update, what is it you are referring to Adrexah touching? A bookshelf? The door? A crevice? The wind? And whatever it is, it's not really there, but only a stone wall?

Kelvin360
2015-12-26, 11:32 PM
All right, you know how in movies where the protagonist is an investigative type, they find secret doors by puffing dust near the cracks in a wall and see if the air flow from behind draws them in? That air flow is what you're hearing, from the wall adjacent to the bookshelf.

WindStruck
2015-12-26, 11:52 PM
Ooooh... haha! So I think you just confused me as a player just as much as Adrexah was confused. But I get you now! I think I know how to act appropriately... :smalltongue:

AquilaRift
2015-12-30, 06:21 PM
Does the garden extend far enough east that Elias could examine the wall corresponding to what is beyond the secret door?

Kelvin360
2015-12-30, 09:25 PM
Unfortunately, no. The only sections of the garden that are stone wall and not simple iron gates are the two segments on either side of the exit door, and they're too thin to make up a tunnel of any kind. Wherever that secret tunnel leads to, it doesn't seem likely that it's outside.

AquilaRift
2016-01-04, 12:57 AM
In which Elias continues not to know anything about vampires. :smalltongue:

Kelvin360
2016-01-05, 08:40 PM
If it makes you feel any better, Bria rolled a 6 on her K:R check.

Also, did Lea grab that sack of gold that was just sitting there, or leave it in the desk?

WindStruck
2016-01-05, 08:47 PM
I'm starting to think that Adrexah's off the cuff joke about vampires might be true... :smalltongue:

Winds
2016-01-05, 10:00 PM
Commented on, but left it in the desk.

(For now. Since the desk's owner isn't as nice as he's supposed to look, I may just decide it's fair game...:smallamused:)

AquilaRift
2016-01-19, 08:59 PM
Elias? Overcautious about magic? It's not like that's one of his core character traits or anything. :smalltongue: (IC post up soon)

Winds
2016-01-21, 03:47 PM
Two points for clarity: How big, roughly is the statue? It sounds from the word 'massive' like it'd be two or three times average human size. Assuming that's right, is the claymore sized right for a human to use, or scaled to the statue itself?

Kelvin360
2016-01-21, 04:42 PM
The statue's head scrapes the ceiling, around 12 feet tall, or a bit larger than a hill giant. The claymore is sized for the statue's use, and then some - it doesn't look like there's any way one of you could hold it, let alone wield it.

AquilaRift
2016-01-21, 08:44 PM
Has it been 4 minutes or more since Elias cast detect magic? What with all the arguing and trapfinding, it might have been, but if that's still up, we'll have more information about this room.

WindStruck
2016-01-21, 08:49 PM
Still wondering if Adrexah hears anything? I am just thinking of having her barge in if she gets too impatient. :smallbiggrin:

Kelvin360
2016-01-21, 09:02 PM
Has it been 4 minutes or more since Elias cast detect magic? What with all the arguing and trapfinding, it might have been, but if that's still up, we'll have more information about this room.

I'm going to say you have enough left for 2 rounds' worth of detection. There are three auras and the most potent is moderate.


Still wondering if Adrexah hears anything? I am just thinking of having her barge in if she gets too impatient. :smallbiggrin:

Ah, right, sorry, slipped my mind. No, she doesn't hear anything from within the room right away.

However, she DOES register a gentle creaking sound, like a stone house settling, once anyone crosses or muddles with the threshold.

AquilaRift
2016-01-23, 05:56 PM
Winds, I note that Lea's character sheet has her still at 3rd level. Have you not finished leveling her up?

Winds
2016-01-23, 11:30 PM
Finished, ran a checklist, and my version of it says level 4 in every parameter I know of. So...that's odd. I don't know why that link would send you to a older version of the sheet...

Kelvin360
2016-01-23, 11:35 PM
Is it possible you have two versions, the AutoTransfer sheet and a newer/older sheet you're updating? Either way, this can be solved with the expedient of you linking the sheet you're looking at here and I'll replace the OP. No big deal.

WindStruck
2016-01-24, 01:01 AM
Wait, what...? The statue thing totally knows Adrexah wasn't serious, but still lets her pass?

Maybe I shouldn't question this... lol

Kelvin360
2016-01-24, 01:19 AM
The point isn't to prove that you hold to the tests, necessarily, but to show that you know the dogma. And frankly, keeping your cool in the face of three massive sword-wielding statues shows a pretty big lack of fear in itself.

Winds
2016-01-24, 09:08 AM
This should be the one. (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=162355) I'll probably clear the AutoTransfer sheets sometime later.

Kelvin360
2016-01-27, 04:19 PM
Y'all can try for Knowledge (religion) checks, too, if you're stuck. This one's a fairly low DC, since the solution involves a relatively well-known real world burial ritual.

WindStruck
2016-01-27, 07:25 PM
Ok, I don't think Adrexah has any ranks in the skill, but it's worth a shot?

[roll0]

So that's max I can for untrained (10). Don't really want to steal the spotlight and make others feel useless. Maybe Elias could know? Or Lea? Bria or Samnang also should surely know, right?

Winds
2016-01-27, 07:55 PM
Untrained Knowledge: Religion: [roll0]

AquilaRift
2016-01-27, 09:07 PM
Knowledge (religion): [roll0]

Kelvin360
2016-01-30, 10:53 AM
Both women are aware (Adrexah to a lesser extent, given the variance in elven traditions) of an old ritual involving coins and the dead. Back in the days when the Old Skull Myrkul was god of the dead, it was customary to place a coin over each eye of an interred relative, so that they could afford the 'toll' at the gates of the afterlife.

Kelvin360
2016-01-30, 05:39 PM
"...and that the other trials may not be so forgiving."

Hint, hint, you fate-tempting little bastards. :smalltongue:

WindStruck
2016-01-30, 07:25 PM
Hey, well you know how I was talking about a pixie character a long time ago?

Killing off Adrexah would be the perfect chance to bring in a new character! Bonus points for simultaneously annoying and guilt tripping Elias even more! :smalltongue:

Well. Maybe it's a bad idea. I mean, I guess I still like her as a character, but mainly for the attitude.

AquilaRift
2016-01-30, 11:02 PM
Do you want to give the poor wizard an aneurysm? :smalltongue:

Kelvin360
2016-02-06, 05:07 PM
And would that be third as in southwest or third as in southeast?

WindStruck
2016-02-06, 05:50 PM
Third as in we don't know what's behind either door anyway, so let's just pick the closest/a random one already! :smalltongue:

AquilaRift
2016-02-06, 06:43 PM
Closest one to the one we just solved would be logical. I've lost track of what that one is -- I thought the money room was southwest.

Kelvin360
2016-02-06, 07:02 PM
Thaaaaaaat is correct, I've been paying attention. Yep. Yessiree. If you're proceeding clockwise, NE is next.

WindStruck
2016-02-09, 08:49 PM
I may have an idea. Do you think a Protection from Evil spell might have some effect?

WindStruck
2016-02-14, 10:36 PM
So, I thought I'd just poke you Kelvin. I wonder what Aral's thoughts on the matter is? :smalltongue:

But I think only Orin can actually hear him...

Kelvin360
2016-02-15, 01:50 AM
But I think only Orin can actually hear him...

This part is true. I made his sensory input a functional ability as part of a methodical trend towards making the psicrystal more of a magical item than a plot device, meaning among other things that Orin has a lot more to do with it and more to do in general.

Winds
2016-02-18, 09:39 PM
Attending a con this weekend, so...probably won't have my computer available, much less be able to post. Bad timing, I know.

Kelvin360
2016-03-06, 05:56 PM
I'm gonna have to make you guys actually write out their positions for me. Use this as a template:

Innocent A B C D E Guilty

Innocent is the left side of the table, Guilty is the right. Five pieces, five slots. B and D are white-colored, A C and E are black.

WindStruck
2016-03-06, 07:35 PM
So it's basically like a 5x5 grid?

Kelvin360
2016-03-06, 07:53 PM
5x1. It's just a straight line of grids, like someone ripped just the first row off a chessboard.

WindStruck
2016-03-06, 07:59 PM
Ok, if it's all just a straight line, this puzzle make even less sense to me now.

Is it in a diagonal maybe?

Kelvin360
2016-03-06, 08:13 PM
It's not supposed to be complicated in design. It literally looks exactly like this:




B
W
B
W
B





Bear|Woman|Man|Chest|Lion

The figurines are NOT inside the inlets, they need to be PLACED on the inlets. It is legitimately as simple as placing one figurine inside each slot in the correct order. I didn't expect the setup, of all things, to be baffling.

AquilaRift
2016-03-07, 04:03 PM
Sorry for absence. IC post sometime tonight.

WindStruck
2016-03-07, 05:24 PM
Actually what Adrexah was saying was the exact opposite order.

AquilaRift
2016-03-08, 12:29 PM
...right, Guilty's on the left. And I reread the post and everything. :smallsigh: Suppose Adrexah corrects Elias's mistake and swaps the order?

WindStruck
2016-03-08, 12:32 PM
Well I could hardly see how she'd know Elias goofed up, but I figure he's a smart enough chap to figure it out.

AquilaRift
2016-03-08, 03:26 PM
...Right. Because, you know, she's blind. I'm dumb today :smallsigh: Blame midterms.

WindStruck
2016-03-12, 12:56 AM
Wisdom check: [roll0]

Well I guess she only has more snark to contribute, as per usual...

Kelvin360
2016-03-12, 01:03 AM
I'll add a circumstance bonus to that one, actually, since she already stated the solution. It'll be taken into account when I'm passing out results.

AquilaRift
2016-03-12, 01:31 AM
Gosh, the one stat I've got a penalty in. [roll0] THAT WAS PREDICTABLE

WindStruck
2016-03-12, 01:57 AM
For instance... how 'guilty' or 'innocent' these things are is irrelevant and not in the place of Jergalites? The only thing that matters is just keeping record of what they do in their life and then when they die?

Winds
2016-03-12, 08:03 PM
Not to worry. I have snark AND a WIS penalty. I got this.

Wisdom: [roll0]

Kelvin360
2016-03-14, 05:19 PM
I went ahead and rolled for Orin for simplicity's sake, but my dice are not any better than the forum's, apparently.

Something about the situation isn't sitting right with you. There's a subtle disconnect in what you're doing and what you can recall. How did the scripture this is supposed to be testing go, again...?

WindStruck
2016-03-14, 05:51 PM
The age old problem with puzzle design: rarely does anyone think the same way you do.

Kelvin360
2016-03-14, 06:26 PM
Well I kind of expected one of you to just chuck the whole table across the room and storm out by now. I underestimated the allure of an unsolved series of placeable figurines. :smallbiggrin:

Kelvin360
2016-03-19, 03:59 PM
Sweet perception, Aquila. Go ahead and add a Spellcraft check on top of that for me.

AquilaRift
2016-03-19, 09:48 PM
Bite me. Spellcraft: [roll0] ...Well, it could have been worse.

WindStruck
2016-03-24, 02:54 AM
Well once again no clue what to do. I guess Adrexah will just cover her ears? lol

Kelvin360
2016-03-24, 10:08 AM
Well once again no clue what to do. I guess Adrexah will just cover her ears? lol

That's a good point, actually. Everybody except Elias gets another round of relevant perception checks in concert with their reactions.

WindStruck
2016-03-24, 04:26 PM
ok... listen again?

[roll0]

Winds
2016-03-25, 08:30 PM
A point of clarity: Is the illusion completely broken? Or is it still mostly there, but with a hole in it?

Kelvin360
2016-03-25, 10:13 PM
It's still active and damaged by Elias' successful Will save. Looks like it's going to need more insight to bring the whole thing down completely. That said, everyone absolutely knows it's an illusion at this point.

Kelvin360
2016-03-29, 11:31 PM
Part of me has to wonder whether that incredible lack of IC interest is a byword for incredible lack of OOC interest. :smallconfused: I promise not to be ultra-offended, but if there are issues, raise them in specific terms so I can fix them, please.

WindStruck
2016-03-29, 11:48 PM
Well before you get too jumpy, maybe you should ask yourself if what Adrexah said seems out of character? I don't particularly think so.

I don't know what to say about OOC comments of dissatisfaction. I guess maybe I'm thinking, "Oh boy, another unbelievably complex and powerful magic spell confounding the party!"

But at the same time I think the characters are probably thinking something along those lines too. If there's a connection between OOC and IC attitudes, it probably can't be helped.

Winds
2016-03-30, 02:09 PM
I'm not having any issues, really-just delaying a bit to be sure I don't step on anyone else's plans.

Kelvin360
2016-03-30, 06:39 PM
Well before you get too jumpy, maybe you should ask yourself if what Adrexah said seems out of character? I don't particularly think so.

I don't know what to say about OOC comments of dissatisfaction. I guess maybe I'm thinking, "Oh boy, another unbelievably complex and powerful magic spell confounding the party!"

But at the same time I think the characters are probably thinking something along those lines too. If there's a connection between OOC and IC attitudes, it probably can't be helped.

It's a magic-heavy campaign. This is the very kind of issue I want you to be bringing up.

Incidentally, I think we lost MLucas entirely.

WindS and Winds, I need Will saves from both of you to assist in weakening the illusion. I'll have the battle map updated...before Friday? All three of you, also roll initiative.

Winds
2016-03-30, 07:09 PM
Will save: [roll0] (Wisdom makes a *hilarious* dump stat, for several reasons.)
Initiative: [roll1]

AquilaRift
2016-03-30, 08:02 PM
My own laconic posting of late is linked to IRL business, not boredom with the subject matter.

Elias's recent confrontations with powerful, evil magic are confirming his prejudices while at the same time motivating him to seek out more personal arcane power. This is potential for interesting character development, but my lack of time and energy is leading to uninspired roleplaying, I'm afraid.

Since I may be the only original party member left at this point, I hope I can be forgiven. :P This shouldn't be a permanent state of affairs.

Kelvin360
2016-03-30, 08:56 PM
Eek, I also have the impression I'm coming off as aggressive. I swear I'm not intending to! :smalleek: I'm just worried is all - I want to make sure you guys have the best world possible to run around in, and I don't want annoyances hindering that process.

WindStruck
2016-03-30, 09:03 PM
will save: [roll0]

initiative: [roll1]

Oh, and before I keep forgetting again and again... how much exp is Adrexah supposed to be at now? I was adding the 250 exps ... until I realized that I don't even have the exp to be at level 4. When did I mess this up so badly?! :smalleek:

WindStruck
2016-03-30, 09:15 PM
Also, if you don't mind my saying, "high magic" to me typically would mean that 1) Most commoners know of and aren't so distrusting of magic. And 2) it typically means magic is common.

What it doesn't necessarily mean is that everything we run into that is significant to the plot is completely unheard of, all-powerful, and generally impossible to negate or work around unless "solved" in the specific way intended.

In short: there has to be a way for you to present problems and develop story without resorting to the above mentioned tropes every single time. Not to be harsh, but generally I'd classify it as a type of "railroading".

AquilaRift
2016-03-30, 09:44 PM
Right. Initiative. [roll0]

Kelvin360
2016-03-30, 11:09 PM
You're absolutely right. I've spent the whole campaign so far up my own ass with ideas of how to do interesting things that I haven't put anything thought as to whether they're fun things. Which has put all of you in the nightmare-scenario of being observers instead of players. This has been an RPG in the sense that everything is scripted, not in the sense that you're free to explore. So...I'm sorry. Deeply sorry. I'm going to do my damndest not to put you in this situation again until I'm certain I can pull it off correctly, and that means not lock-and-key, but a bank heist, in the sense that get you to choose how you roll.

And in that vein...I think I owe you guys a long-overdue straight-up fight, as a full team this time. Bria's spending her action casting Divine Favor and stepping up. The Battle Map is updated. The party has initiative. Special skill bonuses galore.

Would you kindly beat the living hell out of these golems for me?

WindStruck
2016-03-31, 12:12 AM
I'm not necessarily saying that we aren't doing anything fun... it's just the nature of the problems, however. (Or in some cases, the nature of our "help".)

For instance, ever since entering this mausoleum, there's been quite a considerable lack of direction. The building was strangely left vacant with no clues as to why. Perhaps I could have had Adrexah try to get Chino to track people outside the main door? I'm not sure if it would've even been possible, and doing so wouldn't solve the "mystery" of the place.

So we set about thoroughly looking around. Now we might ask, "what is our goal?" We came here because some cloth was randomly found torn at the scene of a graverobbing. Now with not a soul around, our only possible clue is that we think there may be some people in the central area, but who knows. They are dead? Crazy? Unconscious? Things are already a wild goose chase.

Next problem: there's these 4 gates that just seem to be there without any way to open them. The best thing we could conclude is that there's also 4 doors which have wards on them. Aha! Four gates and four doors! They must be interconnected! Therefore Illuminati! The illogical leap our characters have to come to in order to think this must be astounding, but it's pretty much seemed to be the only other remotely viable possibility.

And now, after visiting this 4th room, somehow everyone gets sucked into some kind of extra-dimensional space... which is apparently only an illusion, and a powerful enough illusion that it seems we can be physically hurt by it, yet it's weak enough that a rift can opened to "escape" it. I mean, I don't even... what is this? Like an 8th? 9th level spell? This is the crux of the problem.

Instead of relying on a crapload of custom, high-level, spell-like effects, things could have been made much simpler.

Consider: instead of a weird layout with an excess of 12 superfluous gates, there could have only been one hallway which contained one gate. It would obviously be leading to someplace special. Maybe it even delved further underground? By the gate are 4 obvious places where it seems something belongs. Perhaps an inscription in each.

In the office, where we found the notes on a guy who failed these tests and the precepts of the Jergalite religion, they could have alluded to 4 tests as well.

So then we go up to a room. There are no special wards that do god knows what. However, in each room is a statue-like golem watching over the place (like the ones we have been/are encountering). Now golems are already defined in d&d. Just make each golem a guardian of a macguffin doodad. You complete a task, the golem is watching. It then hands you one of the pieces you need to unlock the gate. If you try to cheat the test, the golem attacks you. Alternatively, just beating the crap out of all the golems and looting the piece could be a feasible strategy too.

In the final area in which we are now, instead of being sucked into some kind of hard-to-explain "reality", we could merely be walking down a very long and ominous hallway, lined with such similar statues. There is also a gate with a lever that lowers it, but why that would be there? Who knows...

Suddenly when we get close to the end near a large door, a golem speaks (using magic mouth). It expects a specific response, as it was programmed by a Jergalite, but if anyone says anything other than what is expected, all the statues come to life and attack. The one nearest the lever activates it, trapping the party.

This is a way we could have a forced encounter with a bunch of golems in a tight space without using reality-breaking magic.

Anyway. This suggestion was probably more "traditional" in the sense of expected dungeon design.. but stilll. I am not trying to say "this is how the dungeon should have been!" But I am merely giving an example which basically has the same effect and the same puzzles but without the use of custom high-level spells.

Kelvin360
2016-03-31, 01:13 PM
You were always in the illusion. Empty mausoleum, strange effects, ridiculous nonlinear puzzles, out-of-place clues...none of it was supposed to make sense beyond serving as a red herring. You were never in a standard dungeon crawl. In fact, the room you're in now is the exit point by virtue of what's basically a magical overflow error or an attempt to escape.

I'll allow for a moment of shocked, furious silence over how unfair and unfathomable that premise is. But my point being, you do not need to tell me how ****ed up and ridiculous this area is. I am fully. Aware. My only goal right now is to get you all right the hell out of it so we don't need to worry about it anymore.

WindStruck, I honestly, truly appreciate your suggestion, and frankly it's making me believe I'm not the one who should be DMing here. But that suggestion relies on the principle that this whole cluster**** was supposed to make sense. That's simply not the case here - when it is, I'll take what you said into account.

Winds
2016-03-31, 02:08 PM
Mmm. I'll say that that particular set-up would likely have worked better with an in-person group. Text-only gaming does a harder job of translating the dream-like feel I think you were going for...particularly when the players/characters have encountered equally weird 'real' magic.

Honestly, it makes a lot of sense as a trap. (Even used in our host's 'game', with it being *way* harder to get out of...We didn't have to go nearly this far, after all. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0887.html)<-OotS 887

Worry less about fixing things immediately, than about being in the right headspace to present an interesting story. That's the part the rulebooks and players *can't* help you with, after all.


*EDIT: On a mostly unrelated note, not bothering with a Will save. (Because wow, Lea, you really can't think your way out of a already-broken broken illusion...

AquilaRift
2016-03-31, 03:33 PM
Worry less about fixing things immediately, than about being in the right headspace to present an interesting story. That's the part the rulebooks and players *can't* help you with, after all.


I concur with Winds, basically. I've already said my piece about the pacing, and if there wasn't a whole lot to like about this game, I wouldn't still be here.

IC post incoming. Have to run.

WindStruck
2016-03-31, 04:40 PM
Mother of God....

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/191/671/632.png

It's worse than we thought!

Kelvin360
2016-04-03, 07:15 PM
MLucas hasn't gotten back to me yet, so it looks like I'm puppeteering Orin for this combat. I had everything adjusted and completed when I remembered that WS' action was a delay, so what I'm going to do is this instance is maintain those happenings and adjust afterwards as needed instead of rebooting the whole Battle Map. Bit lazy, I know, but my working assumption is that Adrexah is going to finish off S4 anyway, which should be a fairly simple task if she doesn't roll as low as the other two did (a 2 and a 1 on damage, in case you're curious).

WindStruck
2016-04-03, 09:36 PM
Talk about bad rolls. :smalltongue:

The first attack whiffs due to blindness, and I'm not even sure if the second connects what with "natural armor" you'd expect huge stone golems to have....

Winds
2016-04-04, 03:14 PM
Yup, I feel you.

And hey, I already commented on sassing fake animate statues. Nothing left to do but double down.

Kelvin360
2016-04-05, 07:27 PM
Divine Favor only affects Bria, Elias. :smalltongue: I'll bear in mind to replace it with Bless next time to give the whole party some goodies, though.

WindStruck, go ahead and take this turn's action, then I'll get the statues' response, rather than sort-of-skipping you like last time.

Also I want to take this moment to discuss future contingencies. I'd as soon not write Orin out of the story, so if MLucas isn't back for a while my working idea is to send him off to study psionics with Boudicca. He already has one of her plot items and it puts him nearby without my having to ad-lib his contributions too heavily. Thoughts?

Winds
2016-04-05, 07:59 PM
That sounds reasonable to me, yes.