Worst spells by level?

[graeylin]

A friend and I were debating the making of a standard wizard with what had to be the worst spell choices ever, for standard adventuring.

So... a standard 20 Wizard, no specialization, no extra spells in his list, who somehow got the worst luck on getting and finding spells; what would his spell book look like?

The challenge for us is that once we figure out the spells, I will be forced to play said wizard (starting at level 10, luckily) in my DM's modules. I can't sit at home in a tower, or play through proxies... i will have to go out in the field, with a group, and try to make lemonade out of the lemons you give me.

that said, what are the 5 worst spells at each level, Core and Spell Compendium sources only, for a wizard who goes out to explore dungeons, face dragons, orcs, ettins, and bandits?

[Khosan]

I think, as a general rule of thumb, mostly Abjuration/Transmutation with some of the less useful spells from other schools or spells with incredibly impractical material components thrown in for good measure would be your best worst case scenario. Just bursting at the seams with really niche utility or nigh unusable spells.

[ericgrau]

At level 10+ eh? 25 spells are a lot to come up with. I'll contribute 2 levels.

0: Repair minor damage, resistance, detect poison (note it's inst + 1 target not 10 min + 60' cone), daze, ray of frost
Electric jolt (1d3 electricity, ranged touch) and detect poison were close.

1: sleep, cause fear, hypnotism, magic weapon, resist planar alignment (-1 instead of -2 to cha/wis/int based checks in hell! lol)


Yes I'm heavily abusing HD caps and niche spells. Hehe, sorry man.

[molten_dragon]

I'll play. This is just from a quick look through the PHB and SpC, but the ones I listed all look pretty bad.

Level 0
Detect Poison
Mending
Repair minor damage (unless you're playing in eberron)
Open/Close
Launch Bolt

Level 1
Nystul's Magic Aura
Erase
Dispel Ward
Appraising Touch
Golem strike/vine strike/grave strike (assuming you don't have sneak attack)
Sniper's shot (ditto)
Portal beacon (for maximum uselessness, be sure to never learn where any magical portals are)

Level 2
Continual flame (it's only useful once or twice, and pretty useless after that)
Leomund's trap
Spectral hand (if you make sure not to take any touch attack spells)
Inky cloud (if you don't spend much time in/near water)
Force ladder
discolor pool
Spawn screen
Augment familiar (be sure to trade your familiar for an ACF)
Extend tentacles (be sure not to have any tentacles)

That's all I have time to do at the moment. I'll try to get to the other levels later.

[Sgt. Cookie]

Launch Bolt isn't that bad, especialy when you note that it can, by RAW, be used in conjunction with Eschew Materials.

[mattie_p]

Just from the SRD:

Level 3:
Sepia Snake Sigil
Tiny Hut
Illusory Script
Gentle Repose
Secret Page

Level 4:
Detect Scrying
Hallucinatory Terrain
Mnemonic Enhancer
Illusory Wall
Dimensional Anchor? Dunno, 4th level wiz list is pretty good.

[Amidus Drexel]

I'd put minor creation over dimensional anchor.

minor creation doesn't get more useful as you level up (or any less useful, for that matter), but when you get to higher levels, nearly everything has some sort of teleport.

[Khosan]

Level 4:
Detect Scrying
Hallucinatory Terrain
Mnemonic Enhancer
Illusory Wall
Dimensional Anchor? Dunno, 4th level wiz list is pretty good.

Go for Fire Trap instead of Dimensional Anchor. Dimensional Anchor has a chance to be occasionally useful. Fire Trap deals 1d4+CL damage (Reflex for half) only when the object it's cast on is opened. And it has a 10 minute cast time.

For 5th level:
- Break Enchantment
- Sending
- Dream
- Transmute Mud to Rock
- Permanency

Permanency might be 'too useful' but I don't think there's much you'd want to make permanent anyway.

[Ranting Fool]

1: sleep, cause fear, hypnotism, magic weapon, resist planar alignment (-1 instead of -2 to cha/wis/int based checks in hell! lol)

.

Hey I LOVE the sleep spell... for the first 3 levels :smalltongue:

[graeylin]

oy, this is going to be a tough one to make useful.

One thing, wizards get all 0 level spells, so.. there's no use pointing out the worst. he gets them, and the others, already.

But man, there's some 3rd level suck there. What am i going to do with a day's worth of that?

[Madara]

I'd vote for the Hide from Undead, Remove Scent(SpC) and Appraising Touch(SpC) for 1st level

Portal Alarm(SpC) and Force Ladder(SpC) for level 2

[graeylin]

oy, this is going to be a tough one to make useful.

One thing, wizards get all 0 level spells, so.. there's no use pointing out the worst. he gets them, and the others, already.

But man, there's some 3rd level suck there. What am i going to do with a day's worth of that?

[Venusaur]

Tenser's Transformation is bad on a wizard with decent spells, but it might help this one.

[Invader]

I'd say there very few inherently "bad spells" although there a few. Most of the ones listed above are only bad because the DM doesn't put you in a position to use them IMO. A truly bad spell is one that doesn't have a good use no matter what situation you're in not one that might only be useful once in a 30 level campaign. I'd say if you used any spell once and it had the intended effect or any positive effect for that matter, then it was in fact quite useful. :smallamused:

[Mithril Leaf]

I'd put minor creation over dimensional anchor.

minor creation doesn't get more useful as you level up (or any less useful, for that matter), but when you get to higher levels, nearly everything has some sort of teleport.

But on the other hand, Minor Creation will let you make cubic feet of poison. That's got less upper level usefulness, but at level 10, not everything is poison immune. That's a lot of utility.

[Amidus Drexel]

But on the other hand, Minor Creation will let you make cubic feet of poison. That's got less upper level usefulness, but at level 10, not everything is poison immune. That's a lot of utility.

True, didn't think of that. However, it only works on vegetable matter (which poison can be argued either way; I'm going to say that the kind that comes from plants is vegetable matter) that you have a small piece of. So you'd need some poison to begin with.

You certainly have a point, anyways.

Edit: And eschew materials will probably negate any associated trouble in getting the plant you need for the poison, so nevermind.

[ericgrau]

Level 5 was hard but here goes:

Level 5
Symbol of Spell Loss: 10 minute casting time, *sometimes* enemy spellcasters lose a single spell per round *if* they stay near it
Death Throes: Good if/when you die I suppose, but you're just as likely to explode into allies
Planar Tolerance
Anticold Sphere: cold damage and [cold] creatures cannot enter
Secret Chest (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/secretChest.htm)

Alternates, since it was hard to find truly horrible 5th level spells
Dream (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dream.htm)
Mordenkain's Faithful Hound (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magesFaithfulHound.htm)
Duel Ward: standard action to cast, single use => a hair better than readying an action to counterspell without this spell! Would be ranked higher but I'm afraid (improved) counterspelling might actually turn into a viable option with lousy spells.
Feeblemind (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/feeblemind.htm)

[Emperor Ing]

I've always had a place in my heart for Polar Ray. leveld6 damage on ranged touch attack max 25d6. This spell could be useful...if it ignored spell resistance and wasn't freakin' 8th level!

[grarrrg]

I'd say there very few inherently "bad spells" although there a few. Most of the ones listed above are only bad because the DM doesn't put you in a position to use them IMO. A truly bad spell is one that doesn't have a good use no matter what situation you're in not one that might only be useful once in a 30 level campaign. I'd say if you used any spell once and it had the intended effect or any positive effect for that matter, then it was in fact quite useful. :smallamused:

Mostly agree.
There are some spells that are just HORRIBLY niche, where you pretty much have to go out of your way to use them.

And, more importantly, there are spells that are simply outclassed by other spells of same or lower level.
So while the 'bad' spell might be useful, there is a different spell you could know that would do a better job of it.

[Feralventas]

I'll play. This is just from a quick look through the PHB and SpC, but the ones I listed all look pretty bad.

Level 0
Detect Poison
Mending
Repair minor damage (unless you're playing in eberron)
Open/Close
Launch Bolt




Wait, what? Some of these I agree with, but the cantrips alone...

Detect Poison: Because I like that extra 1d4 con damage spice with my food? Political campaigns and old enemies alike will be happy to hear you Don't have this scribed.
Mending: A small fix goes a long way; repairing a small spyglass once netted 900gp when we'd have only gotten 400 for it otherwise. Closing up a leak in a barrel of goods was another one. Helped that I had it as an at-will, but it's none the less a valuable cantrip.
Repair minor might be worth having in your book, if only to make a few cheap wands for non-combat healing of a construct.
Open/Close: This one requires a situation that demands a closed door, and there are few that both demand a closed door and that you can't be bothered to get up and close it yourself.
Launch Bolt: You know this works on colossal bolts too? Devastating potential at low levels, and as part of an army a few wands of this make the cost of siege weaponry the cost of the balistae bolts alone.

[Sgt. Cookie]

Wait, *Launch Bolt stuff* really? How do you figure that?

[Douglas]

This is for a straight wizard of a typical race, right?

Worst spells:
Level 0: Flare, Open/Close, Arcane Mark, Detect Poison, Stick
Level 1: Resist Planar Alignment, Golem Strike, Insightful Feint, Sniper's Shot, Breath Flare
Level 2: Portal Alarm, Cloak Pool, Discolor Pool, Extend Tentacles, Razorfangs
Level 3: Gentle Repose, Analyze Portal, Circle Dance, Undead Lieutenant, Air Breathing
Level 4: Improved Portal Alarm, Rebuking Breath, Blinding Breath, Scramble Portal, Sharptooth
Level 5: Dispelling Breath, Death Throes, Breath Weapon Substitution, Ethereal Breath, Stunning Breath
Level 6: Legend Lore, Mage's Lucubration, Seal Portal, Revive Undead, Hardening
Level 7: Vision, Symphonic Nightmare, Awaken Undead, Animate Breath, Spell Matrix
Level 8: Discern Location, Binding, Spell Engine, Shifting Paths, Greater Stunning Breath
Level 9: Soul Bind, Enervating Breath, Awaken Construct, Breath Weapon Admixture, Greater Spell Matrix

Runner ups (the fact that Magic Aura is on this list instead of the one above should tell you something about how bad some spells are):
Level 1: Buzzing Bee, Mount, Luminous Gaze, Appraising Touch, Comprehend Languages, Hold Portal, Cheat, Erase, Detect Undead, Magic Aura, Instant Locksmith, Distract, Portal Beacon
Level 2: Obscure Object, Aiming at the Target, Marked Object, Spawn Screen, Continual Flame, Scintillating Scales, Balancing Lorecall, Magic Mouth, Misdirection
Level 3: Rage, Earthen Grace, Sonorous Hum, Shadow Cache, Regal Procession, Suppress Breath Weapon, Corpse Candle, Tiny Hut, Glowing Orb, Avoid Planar Effects
Level 4: Secure Shelter, Hallucinatory Terrain, Detect Scrying, Wall of Water, Locate Creature, Attune Form, Treasure Scent, Mnemonic Enhancer, Force Chest, Perinarch
Level 5: Secret Chest, Refusal, Hidden Lodge, Mirage Arcana, Passwall, Interposing Hand, Dream, Planar Tolerance, Lesser Spell Matrix
Level 6: Move Earth, Dream Casting, Transcribe Symbol, Contingency (if only because he has no good spells to use it with), Stone to Flesh, Aura of Evasion
Level 7: Sequester , Statue, Submerge Ship
Level 8: Temporal Stasis, Screen
Level 9: Freedom, Planar Perinarch, Refuge, Hindsight

Oh, and make sure the wizard using this list *NEVER* gets a hold of the Dragon Breath spell.

[ericgrau]

Detect Poison: Because I like that extra 1d4 con damage spice with my food? Political campaigns and old enemies alike will be happy to hear you Don't have this scribed.
Haha! Your drink is actually poisoned instead! It's single target instantaneous. It's a really bad spell. You can't even use it unless you already suspect something, and if you suspect everything I hope you have a 50 charge wand. I suppose it's ok for determining if the trap the rogue found and hopefully disabled is a poison trap and then you, um... not sure what you do that you wouldn't do with a regular trap.

Open/close I think might actually be useful due to its range. Unlocked yet trapped doors for instance. Or perhaps you knock + open. Etc. I've actually used it on windows to determine <locked> <locked> <yay unlocked> Ok I'll levitate up to that one back and forth to elevator the party. Need a sorcerer or scrolls or pathfinder to pull that off though.

[grarrrg]

Haha! Your drink is actually poisoned instead! It's single target instantaneous.

Wait.
I thought everybody dumped their drink on top of their food and mashed everything together into stew, THEN you cast Detect Poison on it?

It's a single target now.
:smallbiggrin:

[Roguenewb]

This character is going to be unplayable. Yes, you can try. But you might as well play a commoner. Yes, you'll have spell slots, but they might as well not exist. Grab Arcane Strike and try to gish it up I guess?

[Demidos]

I've always wondered about this. Whats so bad about tiny hut? You get total concealment but you can see them. If you cast it as an invisible spell' you could even have full LOS with invisibilty. (admittedly, very debatable, and probably wrong). But the fact that you get LOS while blocking theirs always seemed rather good to me. Help?

(I dont mean to derail the thread, so i'll add in Thunderbolt, the version that only does one damage per round (SPC), not the 1d6 listed in the back of the book).

[ericgrau]

Nice catch. It is a decent spell both for regular combat and setting up camp and then getting ambushed at night (but 1-2 people are awake on watch so it isn't melee yet). Especially if other party members use range. For a party with 2+ ranged people including the wizard I might even put it above displacement.

Still even with semi-handy spells it'll be hard to do much useful directly since the more overtly useful spells aren't going to make anybody's list.

I think there are feats or prestige classes that convert spell slots into sucky amounts of raw damage. At minimum there's the reserve spell feat. That might actually be useful for this player. Step 1 drop a utility spell or two, especially things like the hut if they slip by unnoticed, step two pew pew with the rest of the party. Of course now I don't think tiny hut will make it, but others might.

[hewhosaysfish]

Fins to Feet!

Our party found a scroll of it and it's become something of a running joke in that campaign. I believe it's second level.

[graeylin]

This is for a straight wizard of a typical race, right?

Worst spells:
Level 0: Flare, Open/Close, Arcane Mark, Detect Poison, Stick
Level 1: Resist Planar Alignment, Golem Strike, Insightful Feint, Sniper's Shot, Breath Flare
Level 2: Portal Alarm, Cloak Pool, Discolor Pool, Extend Tentacles, Razorfangs
Level 3: Gentle Repose, Analyze Portal, Circle Dance, Undead Lieutenant, Air Breathing
Level 4: Improved Portal Alarm, Rebuking Breath, Blinding Breath, Scramble Portal, Sharptooth
Level 5: Dispelling Breath, Death Throes, Breath Weapon Substitution, Ethereal Breath, Stunning Breath
Level 6: Legend Lore, Mage's Lucubration, Seal Portal, Revive Undead, Hardening
Level 7: Vision, Symphonic Nightmare, Awaken Undead, Animate Breath, Spell Matrix
Level 8: Discern Location, Binding, Spell Engine, Shifting Paths, Greater Stunning Breath
Level 9: Soul Bind, Enervating Breath, Awaken Construct, Breath Weapon Admixture, Greater Spell Matrix

Runner ups (the fact that Magic Aura is on this list instead of the one above should tell you something about how bad some spells are):
Level 1: Buzzing Bee, Mount, Luminous Gaze, Appraising Touch, Comprehend Languages, Hold Portal, Cheat, Erase, Detect Undead, Magic Aura, Instant Locksmith, Distract, Portal Beacon
Level 2: Obscure Object, Aiming at the Target, Marked Object, Spawn Screen, Continual Flame, Scintillating Scales, Balancing Lorecall, Magic Mouth, Misdirection
Level 3: Rage, Earthen Grace, Sonorous Hum, Shadow Cache, Regal Procession, Suppress Breath Weapon, Corpse Candle, Tiny Hut, Glowing Orb, Avoid Planar Effects
Level 4: Secure Shelter, Hallucinatory Terrain, Detect Scrying, Wall of Water, Locate Creature, Attune Form, Treasure Scent, Mnemonic Enhancer, Force Chest, Perinarch
Level 5: Secret Chest, Refusal, Hidden Lodge, Mirage Arcana, Passwall, Interposing Hand, Dream, Planar Tolerance, Lesser Spell Matrix
Level 6: Move Earth, Dream Casting, Transcribe Symbol, Contingency (if only because he has no good spells to use it with), Stone to Flesh, Aura of Evasion
Level 7: Sequester , Statue, Submerge Ship
Level 8: Temporal Stasis, Screen
Level 9: Freedom, Planar Perinarch, Refuge, Hindsight

Oh, and make sure the wizard using this list *NEVER* gets a hold of the Dragon Breath spell.

Ugh... i think my DM has found most of my spellbook.

thanks guys!

[Hand_of_Vecna]

Vertigo and Vertigo Field are some of the worst spells of their levels, 2 and 3.

Mind Effecting: So lots of things are immune.
Fear: A few more things are immune or get bonuses.
Will Save

If it takes effect through all that targets need to make balance checks to get their move actions and failing by more than 5 knocks them prone. It has the same DC as Grease so it's basically Grease with a bunch of extra defenses added and without the various fringe utility uses of grease. It does have longer range and it can target flying enemies (though they do get a +4 save).

[Ziegander]

Ugh... i think my DM has found most of my spellbook.

thanks guys!

Do you at least get to build the rest of your character and tailor the build to your horribad spellbook?

[Douglas]

Vertigo and Vertigo Field are some of the worst spells of their levels, 2 and 3.

Mind Effecting: So lots of things are immune.
Fear: A few more things are immune or get bonuses.
Will Save

If it takes effect through all that targets need to make balance checks to get their move actions and failing by more than 5 knocks them prone. It has the same DC as Grease so it's basically Grease with a bunch of extra defenses added and without the various fringe utility uses of grease. It does have longer range and it can target flying enemies (though they do get a +4 save).
Compared to even most of the runners up on my list, that's pretty damn good. So no, I would not say it's one of the worst available. Bad, yes. Worst, not even close.


Ugh... i think my DM has found most of my spellbook.

thanks guys!
So you'll be using my list?

I'll be somewhat morbidly curious to hear how it turns out.

[molten_dragon]

Launch Bolt isn't that bad, especialy when you note that it can, by RAW, be used in conjunction with Eschew Materials.

No, it really isn't that bad, but there aren't really a lot of terrible level 0 spells, and I picked that one simply because a relatively cheap piece of non-magical gear makes it redundant.

[molten_dragon]

Okay, as promised, here's levels 3 through 9.

Level 3
Gentle Repose
Earthen grace
Analyze portal
Enhance familiar (trade your familiar for something else)
Fortify familiar (trade your familiar for something else)

Level 4
Mass reduce person
Improved Portal Alarm
Treasure scent
Rebuking breath (be sure not to have a breath weapon)
Blinding breath (be sure not to have a breath weapon)
Scramble portal

Level 5
Transmute mud to rock
Dream
Dispelling breath (be sure not to have a breath weapon)
Death throes
Breath weapon substitution (be sure not to have a breath weapon)
Stunning breath (be sure not to have a breath weapon)

Level 6
Aura of evasion
Transcribe symbol
Hardening
Imbue familiar with spell ability (trade your familiar for something else)
mordenkainen's lucubration (since you won't have any useful spells to use it with)

Level 7
Hide from dragons
symphonic nightmare
Submerge ship
awaken undead
animate breath (be sure not to have a breath weapon)

Level 8
Spell engine (since you won't have any useful spells to use it with)
shifting paths
greater stunning breath (be sure not to have a breath weapon)
moment of prescience
sympathy

Level 9
Absorption (since you won't have any useful spells to use it with)
Heavenly host (slightly useful, but ridiculously underpowered for a 9th level spell)
vile death
Enervating breath (be sure not to have a breath weapon)
Breath weapon admixture (be sure not to have a breath weapon)

Well, there you have it. A whole bunch of useless spells. A few are situationally useful, but I'm still fairly certain the character will be unplayable. Unless you get ahold of some scrolls of dragon breath, then you won't be that bad.

[Ziegander]

So... a standard 20 Wizard, no specialization, no extra spells in his list, who somehow got the worst luck on getting and finding spells; what would his spell book look like?

How does this challenge deal with the fact that at every Wizard level adds two spells to his/her spellbook of any level she's able to cast? Are we supposed to assume that the Wizard is just mentally handicapped (like Int 6) and chooses to research useless spells?

I ask mostly because researching spells to augment a familiar you don't have is pretty dumb. As would be researching spells to augment a breath weapon you don't have. Do you and the GM just not care so much about the in-character justifications for why this Wizard has such a terrible spellbook?

[graeylin]

I am not sure what in game scenario the DM will invent, but it's could be that the wizard did something to a high ranking member of the wizard's guild, and has been 'banned' from guild membership. And in his world, that could mean that no other wizard would share info, work with this PC, rent workshop space, etc..

Or, he could saddle me with a bad luck curse, or arrange that the only spellbook I ever found as treasure was filled with crud spells (perhaps, the big book of useless spells), and I am too lazy to do the work required to learn better (someone hands you a magical plate that has fast food appear at will, how motivated is a lazy person to learn to hunt his own deer, butcher it, cut it, and learn to cook it?).

[Roguenewb]

I think discolor pool and stunning breath are in two different departments of bad. Discolor Pool has a use, but it's rare to come up, stunning breath is literally useless. I recommend the first catefory to be more realistic.

[TheTick]

Yeah, I think this works better if the spell was MEANT to be useful, but simply sucks, not that it's a spell you literally cannot use because you don't have a breath weapon or whatever.

[molten_dragon]

I think discolor pool and stunning breath are in two different departments of bad. Discolor Pool has a use, but it's rare to come up, stunning breath is literally useless. I recommend the first catefory to be more realistic.

They seem the exact same to me. Both are situationally useful. In fact, stunning breath is quite a bit more useful than discolor pool, IF you can get hold of a breath weapon (which there are several ways to do).

[Telonius]

Suggestion for one of the worst level 9 spells ... Disjunction. It's the Sunder of spells. Theoretically a tactical anti-magic nuke, it almost never sees actual use. Destroyer of loot, invitation to a retaliatory strike; unless they're on a quest to destroy an artifact, I've never seen any player actually take this spell.

[Squidfist]

Launch Bolt isn't that bad, especialy when you note that it can, by RAW, be used in conjunction with Eschew Materials.

And if you take into account that it doesn't specify the size... just carry around a few huge bolts.