Odd issue; need a character

[killianh]

In a recent session my current DM deemed my tripper too powerful (despite having 2 ToB classes, a DMM cleric, and wilder and a Huge bear druid making up the rest of the party :smallannoyed:) so all kinds of fun there. But the question now is what the hell should I play? Despite all the ways to counter a tripper he was annoyed that I was able to do my job right and keep everything on lockdown :smallmad: Game is IRL with good friends so leaving isn't an option, and its his first time as DM so I want to try and go easy on him rather than bring in something else and break the game all over again (which is apparently currently made of tissue paper).

we have three melee guys, a psionic wilder and a cleric (albeit the last two are played a tad poorly). We are almost level 20 and I'm not sure about the best way to round out the party. I can play just about anything (though I'm a fair bit unfamiliar with MoI) so any and all suggestions are welcome, but keep in mind that a Barbarian 2\fighter 17 tripper was deemed too powerful (more from doing it right than it just being what it is) All help is appreciated and I thank those of you that contribute in advance.

[Golden Ladybug]

As soon as I see "Three Melee Guys" I think Bard. Inspire Courage makes everyone better at everything.

Considering the fragility of the game, I'd stay away from DFI and Words of Creation (because everyone in the party suddenly setting everything on fire for oodles of d6s is a hard thing for a newbie DM to face), but Song of the Heart, Badge of Valor and Inspirational Boost will give everyone a pretty decent boost.

Perhaps, since you're lacking an arcane caster, you could take this potential Bard into Lyric Thaumaturge (or Sublime Chord, but if what you say about the optimisation ceiling is true...), which makes the Bard a rather serviceable spellcaster.

[HunterOfJello]

What kind of character are you looking to play? Melee again? Rogue/skill monkey type this time or an arcane caster to fill out the party a bit?

You can always build a super bard using dragonfire inspiration to boost yourself and your party's damage. A level 20 Bard could be so much fun to play.

[killianh]

One of our melee guys is a bard. Bard 4\Warblade 15 so DFI then beating stuff up. Also I believe our druid bear warrior will be switching in the near future to a water based wu gen since he's racist to undead in all forms, and we have to return a pale master to power in a necropolis to gain important info from him on another necromancer that we need to kill.

[Kelb_Panthera]

You could roll-up a god wizard. Then you proceed to make everybody better at what they do. It's like bard, but with way more options.

I suppose this isn't really a significantly different suggestion than the Bard/Lyric Thaumaturge/Sublime Chord setup though. <= Best spontaneous caster in the game, BTW.

[Gotterdammerung]

I would do bard with 5 lvls of Stormcaster from Stormwrack. You can get into Stormcaster with 7 lvls of bard a 13 wisdom score and the feat "arcane disciple (storm domain)". And you only need the 5 lvls to get "Thunderbolt (ex)" ability. This leaves most of the lvls of the build open for other things.

Take born of three thunders meta magic feat.

Apply born of three thunders to sonic weapon and cast one on each of the weapons of each melee.

Now when your parties melee's attack, if they hit the enemy takes 1d6 half sonic half electricity damage (few things have resistance to both). If they take damage they have to make 2 fort saves or be stunned.

You can tack on dragonfire inspiration if you want. It doesn't matter that another party member has DFI, just use a different element.

[prufock]

You have 2 problems:

1. Large party with pretty much all roles covered. You have plenty of melee, a cleric, a "caster" (wilder) or two (bard), a skilled guy (again, bard), and plenty of buffing potential from the bard and cleric. The usual advice for a 5th man is a bard build, but you'd be stepping on toes.

2. Narrow and odd power level window. A tripper is too powerful, but a DMM cleric, wilder, and druid are not? This is an odd situation, and the existing characters are spread across a wide gulf of tiers of power.

I'll toss up a few possibilities of niches to fill:
- Party Face. The bard is probably filling this role at the moment, but since you stated he is a melee bard, he might have focused his abilities elsewhere.
- Sneaky/skilled guy. Lumping these together, even though they don't have to be. You have options for this existing in your party, but it sounds like they are not kitted out for this.
- Support/fill-in guy. You have lots of buffing potential, but there's nothing really wrong with piling on top of that.
- Real ranged character. You have characters who can do this as well, so it might not be the best option, but you know more about your group than I do.

All this in mind, there are a few classes that jump out at me.
1. Factotum. This covers the "fill-in guy" and sneaky/skilled guy roles very well. My personal favourite class. And since you're playing at high levels, you get all the goodness of extra standard actions, mimicking just about any class ability, a decent amount of spells, and are actually pretty durable.
2. Marshal/Dragon Shaman. Buff everyone up on top of what they're already receiving. You'll have, at any given time, 1 minor and 1 major aura from marshal, a draconic aura from dragon shaman, and you can grab the Draconic Aura feat for more options, plus the Double Draconic Aura feat for extra stuff on top. Just make sure you're a dragonblooded race or have the Dragontouched feat from 1st level. Also makes a good party face with Diplomacy and high cha (especially if you take Motivate Charisma as one of your minor auras).
3. Beguiler. Full caster, focusing on illusion and enchantment. Might step on the bard's toes a bit, but your job is not melee. You're sneaky, have good skill selection, and can get people to do your bidding.
4. Warlock. If you need a ranged attacker, warlock (adding Hellfire Warlock if you want the extra damage boost) mixed with some binder gives you that, plus plenty of extra options.

[Eldest]

You have 2 problems:

1. Large party with pretty much all roles covered. You have plenty of melee, a cleric, a "caster" (wilder) or two (bard), a skilled guy (again, bard), and plenty of buffing potential from the bard and cleric. The usual advice for a 5th man is a bard build, but you'd be stepping on toes.

While your advice is good, I'm confused by this. He listed his party as having two tome of battle guys, a optimized cleric, a wilder, and a melee druid. There is no bard in the party right now. They have three beatsticks (counting the druid), a cleric (who could well be a beatstick or not), and a wilder. A bard for arcane, face, and buffing seems great.

[Daftendirekt]

While your advice is good, I'm confused by this. He listed his party as having two tome of battle guys, a optimized cleric, a wilder, and a melee druid. There is no bard in the party right now. They have three beatsticks (counting the druid), a cleric (who could well be a beatstick or not), and a wilder. A bard for arcane, face, and buffing seems great.


One of our melee guys is a bard. Bard 4\Warblade 15 so DFI then beating stuff up.

...Yeah.10char

[Telonius]

... Artificer, possibly? They can be a real force multiplier (or at worst, cash-multiplier) in large-party situations.

[only1doug]

Discuss with the Bard player about forming a duet (he does DFI, you do bonus attack and damage, 2 types of inspire courage with different effects so that they stack) ?

otherwise maybe add an unoptomised third ToB class (playing whichever one the other two aren't)

[Waker]

Transmuter or Sorcerer going into War Weaver could make an excellent buffer while still letting you participate in combat. Always nice being able to buff the whole party in one round and then proceed to blast/debuff the bad guys next round.
Bard is always a fun option. You might have the one Bardblade, but his spellcasting is definitely too weak to really make much difference at the level you are at.
If you are afraid of scaring your DM with an arcanist, you could go the Eldritch Theurge route to dilute your power a bit.
If playing a sneaky, skilled character appeals to you, a Beguiler, Unseen Seer or Arcane Trickster might interest you.

[Urpriest]

I'm guessing your Wilder is blasty, though that may be false. In that case you could do well with a more dedicated caster build. In particular, a War Weaver would do buffing without stepping on the Bard or Cleric's toes.

In general I think party support is the best way to go here. You want a character that doesn't draw the DM's attention, and that's the most straightforward way to do that.

[Eldest]

...Yeah.10char

Ah. My bad. Missed that.