ECL 4 or Lower Well Balanced Races

[Annos]

I'm looking for a (repeat title) and can't find anything. If you know of one I would really enjoy the help.

[A_S]

-For what purpose?
-Well-balanced against what?
-Any source restrictions?

[Annos]

I'd prefer a creature with some defining ability or quadruped. Other than that... nothing that the team paladin would kill for no reason exept pure racism... or something that will REALLY make him angery... though it doesn't have to...

[Madara]

So you want to play as a monster? Are you getting free LA? Or LA buy-off?

This is a Nice resource for things with LA (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=189980)

[eggs]

I get the feeling you aren't looking for feedback like "Dwarf, Human, Kalashtar, Elan, etc." but I'm not sure what sort of feedback you're after.

It might help if you gave a bit more information.

[Waddacku]

Marrulurks (from Sandstorm) are nice Rogue-types. Pretty well balanced with a straight human Rogue.

[Annos]

I am looking for a monster race, and since our Party is all boring core rule bookers, we are going by ECL otherwise I'd be a Grimalkin Warshaper.:smallannoyed:

[Flickerdart]

If you can convince your DM to drop the carnivore requirement of lycanthrope, a werehorse is only 2HD+2LA and gives you large size and nice strength bonuses.
Generally, templates are better balanced than races (no pesky RHD). Consider the following templates:
Half-Fey: Flight, immunity to enchantment and a ton of SLAs and stat boosts. +2 LA. Phrenic is a slightly worse psionic version of this.
Mineral Warrior: DR, stat boosts, burrow speed. +1 LA.
Feral: A whole slew of bonuses, though by a strict reading some of its benefits only apply if you have RHD, so slapping this on a fancy RHD having race is nice.

[Madara]

I am looking for a monster race, and since our Party is all boring core rule bookers, we are going by ECL otherwise I'd be a Grimalkin Warshaper.:smallannoyed:

So its Core only? And you want a monster. Yeah...there isn't much to go for.

Does the SRD work as core? A Blue (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/blue.htm) would be good if it weren't for the LA.

So if you're getting free LA, its definently worth it.


If you can convince your DM to drop the carnivore requirement of lycanthrope, a werehorse is only 2HD+2LA and gives you large size and nice strength bonuses.

Wereoctopus was discussed around here recently. :smallamused:

[Annos]

It's not core only, it is any book that is for 3.5, including fearun

[Madara]

It's not core only, it is any book that is for 3.5, including fearun

Is there any restriction besides

I'd prefer a creature with some defining ability or quadruped. Other than that... nothing that the team paladin would kill for no reason exept pure racism... or something that will REALLY make him angery... though it doesn't have to...

Personally, I'm bias toward undead and would suggest you go with something out of LM. Otherwise a Giant with the Primordial Giant template could be fun.

[Annos]

I once had a Hippy Vampire Dragonborn DFA but soon decided that the lack of a Con doesn't improve that class at all... but I would be open to playing a spell stiched or awoken undead creature... being a drocolich would be cool... but that would mean being a half-dragon and getting a lot of gold.

[Madara]

Mummys are fun, but Wrights are a better deal for their price.

[Annos]

If I pick an undead, I'd like to actually get something big from it, and a good class to match

[Kelb_Panthera]

I'm not over-much fond of undead, myself.

How about a thri-kreen? Four-armed bug man with natural attacks and built in psionics, yes please. :smallcool: Bonus points: you can drop the psionics and 1pt of LA with it.

D'oh. Thri-kreen have 2 MoHu HD and a +2 LA, unless you drop the psionics, then its 2HD and a +1.

[Madara]

If I pick an undead, I'd like to actually get something big from it, and a good class to match

Wrights have spawn and negative levels. If you go Wright Rogue or Monk, you could do some serious damage.

Problem is, LA means you'll have low HP so you shouldn't go in melee. But you wouldn't make a good caster either, because of lost caster levels. So skillmonkies are pretty good. You'll probably be a glass cannon.

[Togo]

Skum? They're cheap, but distinctive.

I'm finding it hard to know what you're looking for...

[Annos]

What I'm looking for is a race with an ECL of 4 or less who isn't a glass cannon and who would be good in combat.

[Urpriest]

If you want a low-LA quadruped, Bariaur (Planar Handbook) is fun. As a centaur-shaped creature you can arguably use mounted feats without being mounted, letting you be a fairly effective charger.

[Annos]

When I said quadruped I was thinking of a magical beast... I'll look into it though.

[Urpriest]

When I said quadruped I was thinking of a magical beast... I'll look into it though.

For a Magical Beast that's interesting and a good race choice, consider the Beguiler from Shining South. Technically it's cohort-only, but it's LA +0 and you look like Pikachu.

[Annos]

... I could ask one of the party's druids to say " I choose you Pikachu" then cast lightning on him :)... thx for the suggestions

[Kelb_Panthera]

..... and you look like Pikachu.

I'm not sure if that's awsome or horrifying. :smalleek:

[Annos]

Beguiler is very tempting... though the small stature is a sort of setback

[Annos]

I could also be a wyrmling rattelyr... :smalltongue:

[ima donkey]

If you can convince your DM to let you drop the RHD from gnoll then that's a pretty good martial race or you could just go with goliath, those are both fairly well balanced and goliath is obviously better but imo goliath is kind of boring. If I knew what class you were playing I could make better suggestions. Also you could apply the winged creature template from savage species and that increases the fun factor ×10.

[Annos]

If I could convince my DM, or and DM to do anything... I'd be a quasi deity trying to claim his/her bloodrite after their mother/father kicked the bucket.

[Annos]

I'd also be a Grimalkin Warshaper

[LTwerewolf]

It's pretty powerful for its LA, but dragonkin (dragonomicon p151) which can be combined with half dragon(MM146 or dragonomicon p166) for amusing results is a fun one to mix things up.

Dragonkin is +2 LA, half dragon is +3 (+5 total if combined, obv.)

[Urpriest]

It's pretty powerful for its LA, but dragonkin (dragonomicon p151) which can be combined with half dragon(MM146 or dragonomicon p166) for amusing results is a fun one to mix things up.

Dragonkin is +2 LA, half dragon is +3 (+5 total if combined, obv.)

Don't Dragonkin have RHD?

Anyway, if you're looking for something really wacky if not all that useful, I just remembered that Krenshar are technically playable. They really should be listed as cohort-only, but there's no actual errata that says they are.

[Annos]

Krenshar... not worth the +2 LA

[That_guy_there]

If I pick an undead, I'd like to actually get something big from it, and a good class to match

The Gravetouched Ghoul is Suprisingly good for undead (LM104).

It has a bite, 2 claws, +2 Nat AC, D12s fo HD, Diease for its bite, Paralysis for its claws, Multiattack feat for free, and a slew of ability bonuses (Str +2, Dex +4, Int +2, Wis +4, Cha +2) all for a relatively low LA+2. Slap it on an Asamar for sympathy from the paladin. As for classes Pair it with a druid for even more rediculousness. (Though you'd need to pick up the Corrupted Wildshape feat from LM to Wildshape at all... or maybe look into the Shapeshifter ACF Druid).

[Annos]

Thanks... though it is't what I've been looking for it's a close third, beguiler is my close second.

[Madara]

The Gravetouched Ghoul is Suprisingly good for undead (LM104).

It has a bite, 2 claws, +2 Nat AC, D12s fo HD, Diease for its bite, Paralysis for its claws, Multiattack feat for free, and a slew of ability bonuses (Str +2, Dex +4, Int +2, Wis +4, Cha +2) all for a relatively low LA+2. Slap it on an Asamar for sympathy from the paladin. As for classes Pair it with a druid for even more rediculousness. (Though you'd need to pick up the Corrupted Wildshape feat from LM to Wildshape at all... or maybe look into the Shapeshifter ACF Druid).

Isn't that a template to apply to the normal Ghoul? So its the cost of Ghoul + Gravetouched Goul?

[That_guy_there]

Isn't that a template to apply to the normal Ghoul? So its the cost of Ghoul + Gravetouched Goul?

Nope. Had to go back to my Libris Mortis but it says:

"Gravetouched ghoul" is an acquired template that can be added to any corporeal aberration, fey, giant, humanoid, or monstrous humanoid with Intelligence and Charisma scores of 3 or higher (referred to hereafter as the base creature).

And nothing about being a ghoul first, just the creature is "Touched by the King". Which makes it my favorite undead template.... except there is a tiny line at the end of the fluff that says the "DM decides when this happens".
:smallannoyed:

[Annos]

Unfotunatly the teams Paladin would have no trouble disbatching me if I did that.

[Madara]

Unfotunatly the teams Paladin would have no trouble disbatching me if I did that.

How much support from the rest of the party would you have? You could try to convince him that you are trying to use the curse for good. Call him racist because he would kill you simply because you are undead.

[Annos]

... Nah..