Fighting an anti magic field

[Ipuntmidgets]

I'm a wizard that is currently level 11 and i am with a character that can project antimagic fields at will and can make a breath weapon that if it hits something that thing projects an antimagic field. I know I'm going to have to fight this player because he is on a crusade against my alignment, I have gone through a lot to make sure that he believes that my alignment is his so i am safe there. But i was wondering how can I defeat him?

[Ketiara]

I'm a wizard that is currently level 11 and i am with a character that can project antimagic fields at will and can make a breath weapon that if it hits something that thing projects an antimagic field. I know I'm going to have to fight this player because he is on a crusade against my alignment, I have gone through a lot to make sure that he believes that my alignment is his so i am safe there. But i was wondering how can I defeat him?

I would love to help. But even more so, I would love to know how he managed to do that, because that sounds awesome :D

[Psyren]

Couple of questions:

1) What's the range on his breath weapon, and what shape is it (cone, line, RTA etc.)

2) What radius resulting AMFs have? How long do they last?

3) What movement modes does he have? Can he fly, burrow, teleport etc?

4) Can he AMF himself? (This should be a catch-22 for him - if he covers himself in a field, he'll be safe from most - but not all - of your spells, but that should also prevent him from breathing it again if it's supernatural. If he can't cover himself, any ranged spell of yours will work, as it will get suppressed as it flies through any fields he makes, only to reactivate and smack him in the face.)

[Khatoblepas]

This sounds impossible, as there are only a few ways to get a permanent antimagic field, and no ways to get an antimagic breath weapon. Antimagic Shackles give off a permanent field.

He could use Cheater of Mystra, but it seems he's a martial character with an antimagic weapon.

Orb him to death. As Instantaneous Conjuration (creation) spells, the Orb of [Element] spells will ignore any antimagic field. Just remain 210ft away and throw orbs til he explodes. Try to remain invisible and flying, and make sure his AMFs affect himself, so he can't cast True Seeing or Flight himself.

Orb.

[Andezzar]

But i was wondering how can I defeat him?Lobby against his campaign versus that alignment with the other characters.
Make him a present, this shiny new helmet (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/cursedItems.htm#helmofOppositeAlignment).
Get him before he uses his AMF. The ability should still require a standard action.
Unles his AMF is Extraordinary, use your own, and then attack him with lots of summoned creatures or orbs

[Manly Man]

Hire a few warblades to run at him, Iron Heart Surge, and you follow through with a big spell to blow him up with.

[Urpriest]

Remind him that crusades against an alignment don't exist, since alignments aren't sides.

[Slipperychicken]

You should also set up a Lead Hat Trick. If you're not familiar with it, you basically take a lead cone 5ft diameter and ~6ft tall (a little bigger than you), cast Shrink item on it (clothlike option), and wear it on your head. When you're in an AMF, the Shrink Item is supressed, creating the lead cone which blocks the AMF so you can escape via Teleport or something. It's a good last resort.

Action denial will be key to stopping him, because he can severely restrict your options if he gets a Standard Action (I assume he'll need one to get an AMF off). Quickened Stinking Cloud plus Wall of Stone (keep him in the Cloud long enough to fail a save, then he's useless. Wall also takes out his line-of-effect) could do it, if he has a poor Fort save. What class is he, by the way?
[
Have miss chances up, so he can't land the Ray. Greater Blink is really sweet, as a 50% miss chance with almost no drawback. As are Invisibility and its bigger brothers. If he can't see you, he can't target you.

You could take Extraordinary Spell Aim feat next level, then cast an AMF on yourself (or your flying summoned buddy), excluding yourself (or the buddy, if you fast it on him) from the effect, and have the affected creature keep him in the AMF. This will supress both his AMF ability and AMF ray. If you can, land a Wall of Stone around him so he can't run away. Now Orb him to death, or drop Shrink Item'd heavy things on him, or get party members to kill him for you.

[PinkysBrain]

But i was wondering how can I defeat him?
Anonymously hiring an asassin and giving him all the information he needs to find the guy while sleeping together with all the protections you know off (and non casters don't tend to have all that great protections against getting killed in their sleep).


As for protection against AMF ... stone shape a huge stone hat which you can stand under and shrink item it into a wearable hat, when you get hit by a AMF the hat goes back to it's original form and blocks line of effect giving you an opportunity to prepare.

[Tvtyrant]

Get the Telekinesis spell and buy some colossal greatswords and shrink them down with a Permanent Shrink Item. Wear a shrunken tin foil hat, and when he blasts you with the AMF you will be able to Dimension Door out of his range. Use the Telekinesis to throw the medium greatswords at him, and they will turn Colossal upon entering the AMF and do tremendous damage (works with rocks too).

[Downysole]

Hire an assassin.

[PinkysBrain]

But i was wondering how can I defeat him?
Anonymously hiring an asassin and giving him all the information he needs to find the guy while sleeping together with all the protections you know off (and non casters don't tend to have all that great protections against getting killed in their sleep).


As for protection against AMF ... stone shape a huge stone hat which you can stand under and shrink item it into a wearable hat, when you get hit by a AMF the hat goes back to it's original form and blocks line of effect giving you an opportunity to prepare.

PS. you better be REALLY good friends IRL or there has to be a clear understanding with everyone that intra-party strife is on the card and the campaign is probably going to get sidetracked because of it at some point ... because unexpected PvP can be hugely detrimental to a gaming group.

[Answerer]

Don't get into fights with cheaters.

There are no options to do the things that he does anywhere in 3.5, to my knowledge, and I would be shocked if I hadn't heard of either of these things.

(Not that a Wizard couldn't handle this guy; he could. The problem becomes when he pulls out his next cheat that just so happens to negate everything you do, "yes even then," because you showed him up)

[That_guy_there]

Coup him while he sleeps. He can't throw up that AMF. Seriously, is anyone else in the group your alignment...? get them to help you.
Cuz jumping him while he's asleep seems the best way to get this done.

Also see what you can do about getting the local Paladins/ anti-Paladins (or whoever is similar to your alignment) to wage a crusade against him.. if he looks like he's going to act against you. I'm not advocating plotting against your teamates but remember: "WWTGDBD".
(What Would The G-d D-mn Batman Do?)

[Slipperychicken]

That's another point: you're within your rights to quit the game when this guy's cheating. Post his explanation for how he's doing it, because I think it's either homebrew or dandwiki. Remember kids, dandwiki is homebrew. You might be able to stop him because his trick doesn't work.

On CDG: have the assassin buff with Silence and (Greater?) Invisibility, CDG with a scythe or something with a x4 crit multiplier. AMFer has no chance to detect the guy (his AMFs duration ran out while he was sleeping), huge damage, arbitrarily-high save vs. death. Do this via notes with your GM so he can't metagame his way out of it. If you can manage the funds. Multiple assassins if he's really high-level (also buffed w/ invisibility. One Silence can cover all of them).

[Randomguy]

Don't get into fights with cheaters.

There are no options to do the things that he does anywhere in 3.5, to my knowledge, and I would be shocked if I hadn't heard of either of these things.

(Not that a Wizard couldn't handle this guy; he could. The problem becomes when he pulls out his next cheat that just so happens to negate everything you do, "yes even then," because you showed him up)

It could be homebrew.



What can he do other than create Antimagic fields? What are the odds you could bludgeon him to death if both of your powers are neutralised by an AMF?

Let's see:
Planar bind something (called creatures don't disappear in an AMF, just summoned ones) that's good in melee, make an arrangement with it before hand and have a contingent sending to notify him if you're attacked, so that he can teleport in. In fact, do this with multiple outsiders/elementals.

Kill him while he sleeps.

Summon something to kill him while he sleeps, a demon or something, and you could sound the alarm to the rest of the part as soon as he's dead and then proceed to kill your own summons, and blame it on the demons. Or say that someone else of your alignment summoned the demons to kill him.

Learn the Suppress Breath Weapon spell.

Give him a nice little scarf, which is really made out of steel that was shrunk via shrink item (into a clothlike form), so you can say the command word and have it unshrink and solidfy, shearing off his head. Or wait until he attacks you with an antimagic field, and walk up to him, so the shrink item is suppressed.

Fly overhead and drop shrunk rocks on him, so they grow when they hit the antimagic field he casts in defence.

[Slipperychicken]

Give him a nice little scarf, which is really made out of steel that was shrunk via shrink item (into a clothlike form), so you can say the command word and have it unshrink and solidfy, shearing off his head. Or wait until he attacks you with an antimagic field, and walk up to him, so the shrink item is suppressed.


Bonus points if you have it enchanted as an Amulet of Health (for +Con) beforehand, say it's probably better than the one he has, so he should try it on to see. When he tries it on, say the command word. And you won't be lying when you say his health will be improved from wearing it :smallbiggrin:

Grab something huge and sharp like a statue, Shrink it (clothlike?), Prestidigitation (flavor/color it like delicious sweets), toss it to him, "Check this out. Magically enhanced flavor. You only get the full effect after you swallow, though". Speak command word -> Boom. Even more hilarious if you get him to kill himself with his own AMF.

[kitcik]

Don't get into fights with cheaters.

There are no options to do the things that he does anywhere in 3.5, to my knowledge, and I would be shocked if I hadn't heard of either of these things.

(Not that a Wizard couldn't handle this guy; he could. The problem becomes when he pulls out his next cheat that just so happens to negate everything you do, "yes even then," because you showed him up)

I just don't get this response, which is similar to several others. How is it cheating to have items and abilities allowed by the DM, who is allowed to make/change the rules as they see fit?

Obviously, if you don't like what the DM does, talk to them or find a new game, blah blah, but that doesn't seem to be the case here. The OP wants to find a way to deal with the other character given the situation he is in. Try to be constructive.

[Psyren]

I just don't get this response, which is similar to several others. How is it cheating to have items and abilities allowed by the DM, who is allowed to make/change the rules as they see fit?

Obviously, if you don't like what the DM does, talk to them or find a new game, blah blah, but that doesn't seem to be the case here. The OP wants to find a way to deal with the other character given the situation he is in. Try to be constructive.

Homebrewing is fine but it shouldn't be one-sided. If one player has access to omg-AMF-breath then they all should, or at least something similarly handy. And I didn't even hear anything about a reflex save to avoid the area.

[kitcik]

Homebrewing is fine but it shouldn't be one-sided. If one player has access to omg-AMF-breath then they all should, or at least something similarly handy. And I didn't even hear anything about a reflex save to avoid the area.

Based on the OP (and he has not posted again), you have no idea what his character can do - maybe he farts wild magic and rides the Tarrasque.

I'm just saying to call someone out for "cheating" because they have in game abilities allowed by the DM seems wrong. (And, as an aside, I took it that "breath weapon" implies a reflex save.)

Trying to get back on topic, there must be a range on the breath weapon. Just stay back, and use magic to drop massive, nonmagical things on his head. That's if it comes to a fight.

I think some of the other posters have it right. He trusts you now, so just kill him before he loses that trust. Killing someone that trusts you is easy.

[Psyren]

Based on the OP (and he has not posted again), you have no idea what his character can do - maybe he farts wild magic and rides the Tarrasque.

Perhaps, but it's a reasonable assumption that if he had any unique powers of his own he would have mentioned them, since he is seeking tactical advice. Say, if he had the power to erect walls of force at-will.


I'm just saying to call someone out for "cheating" because they have in game abilities allowed by the DM seems wrong. (And, as an aside, I took it that "breath weapon" implies a reflex save.)

Allowed by the DM or not, it's only fair if the playing field is kept level. You seem to be implying that Rule Zero makes it impossible to cheat, which I personally disagree with. Invoking rule zero on one player's behalf to directly limit another player is favoritism at best.

As for breath weapons - they do have reflex saves, but AMF does not have one. And even if this ability does, it apparently creates AMF fields as well. Would his reflex save put him outside of such a field if he makes it? If so, does that mean he moves from his square, or that he simply stays where he is without being affected, like most breath weapons? If he moves, does this movement provoke? How long do these fields last, and how big are they? etc.

This is the inherent problem with such far-reaching homebrew. The default rules interactions can be just as tangled, certainly, but at least the collective ruminations of dozens of forumites have exposed the worst snarls over the years. Homebrew, meanwhile, can often be more trouble than its worth to untangle - in which case advice that amounts to "issue an ultimatum/quit" is not necessarily unproductive. Certainly it would take a lot less time and energy than adjudicating all the complexities such an ability would raise, unless they've already been thought out by this DM.

[Answerer]

kitcik:
I didn't say that the player in question was the only one who was cheating. The DM may be too, if he's playing favorites and giving one guy abilities he should not have while not giving anything to the other players.

In my experience, that happens less often than someone trying to pull a fast one on the DM.

I will acknowledge that DandD-wiki may be the one actually at fault here, though. That's a good point.

[Monodominant]

While he sleeps cast magic jar.

Enter his body and slit your own throat.

[Roguenewb]

Initiate of Mystra and laugh? Frankly. with level 6 spells, this seems easy enough. Monsters, monsters everywhere. Planar Bind something with piles of templates (Show him what REAL POWER is), and then giggle as it shreds him. Bonus points if it shares his alignment.

[ceduct]

does he need sleep? if yeah 1 full round action should suffice

[Slipperychicken]

Initiate of Mystra and laugh? Frankly. with level 6 spells, this seems easy enough. Monsters, monsters everywhere. Planar Bind something with piles of templates (Show him what REAL POWER is), and then giggle as it shreds him. Bonus points if it shares his alignment.

How is an 11th level Wizard going to use Initiate of Mystra? :smallannoyed:


On Cheating: It's unfair to give characters stupidly unbalanced abilities, whether by rules or fiat. Fiat is usually worse, because a) DMs usually do not homebrew balanced abilities and b) the DM isn't going to ban an ability he pulled out of his ***.

It violates the expectation of fairness to say you're playing by a set of rules, and then break them. In that sense, it's like cheating at any other game -It's just not sporting. For example, a server admin for an online shooting game *can* give his character unlimited health and aimbot, but it's highly unfair to do it unless everyone else has similar advantages. He's supposed to adjudicate a fair game, not favor one player over the others.

[lord_khaine]

Well, yeah apperently the fighter has gotten unfair homebrew special powers, but the other guy is a wizard, why should he get anything else besides that?

[Slipperychicken]

Well, yeah apperently the fighter has gotten unfair homebrew special powers, but the other guy is a wizard, why should he get anything else besides that?

That depends on how the Wizard is being played (I.e. is the Wizard using unfair special powers?). If the Wizard is showing restraint (or doesn't know how to be unfairly-powerful), there shouldn't be much of a problem. If the Wizard is playing as Batman complete with Craft Contingent Spells, wish loops, and planar-bound minions, then AMF powers might be fair game for a Fighter.

[Spuddles]

Don't get into fights with cheaters.

There are no options to do the things that he does anywhere in 3.5, to my knowledge, and I would be shocked if I hadn't heard of either of these things.

(Not that a Wizard couldn't handle this guy; he could. The problem becomes when he pulls out his next cheat that just so happens to negate everything you do, "yes even then," because you showed him up)


That's another point: you're within your rights to quit the game when this guy's cheating. Post his explanation for how he's doing it, because I think it's either homebrew or dandwiki. Remember kids, dandwiki is homebrew. You might be able to stop him because his trick doesn't work.

On CDG: have the assassin buff with Silence and (Greater?) Invisibility, CDG with a scythe or something with a x4 crit multiplier. AMFer has no chance to detect the guy (his AMFs duration ran out while he was sleeping), huge damage, arbitrarily-high save vs. death. Do this via notes with your GM so he can't metagame his way out of it. If you can manage the funds. Multiple assassins if he's really high-level (also buffed w/ invisibility. One Silence can cover all of them).

Since when is homebrew cheating?


Homebrewing is fine but it shouldn't be one-sided. If one player has access to omg-AMF-breath then they all should, or at least something similarly handy. And I didn't even hear anything about a reflex save to avoid the area.

You mean like 11 levels of wizard?



How is an 11th level Wizard going to use Initiate of Mystra? :smallannoyed:


On Cheating: It's unfair to give characters stupidly unbalanced abilities, whether by rules or fiat. Fiat is usually worse, because a) DMs usually do not homebrew balanced abilities and b) the DM isn't going to ban an ability he pulled out of his ***.

It violates the expectation of fairness to say you're playing by a set of rules, and then break them. In that sense, it's like cheating at any other game -It's just not sporting. For example, a server admin for an online shooting game *can* give his character unlimited health and aimbot, but it's highly unfair to do it unless everyone else has similar advantages. He's supposed to adjudicate a fair game, not favor one player over the others.

"Guuuuuys, wizards are SUPPOSED to have an unfair advantage. It's the way the game is expected to be played! Stop cheating and letting other characters DO things!"

[Psyren]

lol you even admit how OP a wizard and you still QQ about how op wizard stopping powers are. The game was meant to be played so wizards have an unfair advantage, guys!

lol ur missing my point guy! omg wizards have the potenshul to be op but if this 1 isn't being played that way there's no reason 4 this! and somebody that farts breathes mystic AMF gas needs specific tactics/cheese to counter.


Forcing one player to alter their build specifically to counter the other's homebrew isn't exactly fair.

Also: how do you know how much advantage the wizard has? For all we know the other guy's a druid/archivist/etc.

[Spuddles]

Tin Foil hat might not work vs AMF breath as whatever object gets struck turns into an AMF. Nested tinfoil hats may work, though.


lol ur missing my point guy! omg wizards have the potenshul to be op but if this 1 isn't being played that way there's no reason 4 this! and somebody that farts breathes mystic AMF gas needs specific tactics/cheese to counter.

Complain moar.


Forcing one player to alter their build specifically to counter the other's homebrew isn't exactly fair.

Oh no! The wizard has to pick different spells! What a travesty!


Also: how do you know how much advantage the wizard has? For all we know the other guy's a druid/archivist/etc.

Then wouldn't the other guy be facing near identical limitations, except be at a disadvantage because no orb and no invoke magic?

[kitcik]

You seem to be implying that Rule Zero makes it impossible to cheat, which I personally disagree with. Invoking rule zero on one player's behalf to directly limit another player is favoritism at best.


I agree with the rest of your post in spirit, just wanted to specifically address these two points:

1) You can cheat despite rule zero: bring a die with two 20's and no 1's, fudge your rolls, add abilities to your character sheet if your DM doesn't monitor it, walk around encumbered without applying the penalties, etc.
2) Favoritism sucks and is a good reason to speak to the DM or leave the game, but it is not cheating. Particularly on the part of the player - they didn't ask for the favoritism (or I am giving them the benefit of the doubt since there is no info about this).

Would be nice if the OP actually read the thread and chimed in with more info.

[Psyren]

@ kitick: By "you" I meant the DM cheating in this context, i.e. deliberately warping the rules to favor one player over another. (Based wholly on the information given.) Not to players bringing unfair die etc.



Complain moar.

no u!



Oh no! The wizard has to pick different spells! What a travesty!

Cheater of Mystra isn't a spell, Invoke Magic isn't available at 11, and Orbs are useless once you're in the field. And since the regular AMF is a personal emanation, I can't even use that to know how big these things are or how long they last.



Then wouldn't the other guy be facing near identical limitations, except be at a disadvantage because no orb and no invoke magic?

By RAW you're immune to your own breath weapon unless stated otherwise, so no.

[Spuddles]

Interesting about breath weapon immunity, but spells don't count as "You", do they? You could cast insantaneous conjurations but not evocations. Would buffs stay up? I am guessing magic weapons in possession would keep their magical sharpness.

[Zale]

"Guuuuuys, wizards are SUPPOSED to have an unfair advantage. It's the way the game is expected to be played! Stop cheating and letting other characters DO things!"

Just because Wizards are powerful, that doesn't mean you should be able to fart antimagic fields as a free action.

Fighting fire with fire never ends well.

[Gavinfoxx]

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=10104

There's the handbook. Read it, learn it, love it.

[Answerer]

Since when is homebrew cheating?
My post was specifically addressing the idea that this was all pulled out of his ass.

Homebrew is written down somewhere. You cannot change it to fit whatever comes up; you have to accept whatever limitations exist on it.

My concern is that it seems to me that his opponent is not thus limited. He does not have some class or feat or whatever from somewhere that spells out exactly what he can or cannot do. He simply is making things up and the DM either out of favoritism or naivete is going along with it.

Maybe that's not what's going on. Maybe he's using some 3rd-party or homebrew materials that spell out exactly what he can and cannot do and gives him some meaningful limitations.

But that wasn't the... vibe I was getting from this guy. He sounds like an actual munchkin, rather than just a power-gamer.

But I'll acknowledge that I'm making a snap judgment from far too little information, it's true.

[Spuddles]

My post was specifically addressing the idea that this was all pulled out of his ass.

Homebrew is written down somewhere. You cannot change it to fit whatever comes up; you have to accept whatever limitations exist on it.

My concern is that it seems to me that his opponent is not thus limited. He does not have some class or feat or whatever from somewhere that spells out exactly what he can or cannot do. He simply is making things up and the DM either out of favoritism or naivete is going along with it.

Maybe that's not what's going on. Maybe he's using some 3rd-party or homebrew materials that spell out exactly what he can and cannot do and gives him some meaningful limitations.

But that wasn't the... vibe I was getting from this guy. He sounds like an actual munchkin, rather than just a power-gamer.

But I'll acknowledge that I'm making a snap judgment from far too little information, it's true.

Hmmm, speaking of made up things pulled out of asses....

:smallwink:


Judicious application of AMF also strikes me as sort of... Nubly. Noobish. But perhaps that's due to the bias of these boards and anything limiting our precious precious wizards.

[Grimsage Matt]

You can get a EX breath weapon and at will AMF from the evolutionist, but it would be a pain to get by 11. Possible, maybe. But it's also a sweet min-max.

If you want to beat him? Hire a Psion to 'play' with him. Or a level 14 evolotionist (If they pick the right tetromorphs and Mutations, martial classes and caster/manifesting classes are almost negated).

[Kelb_Panthera]

Just because Wizards are powerful, that doesn't mean you should be able to fart antimagic fields as a free action.

Fighting fire with fire never ends well.

Unless of course you're looking to see everything burn. Fire...... WHEEEEEE!

You can get a EX breath weapon and at will AMF from the evolutionist, but it would be a pain to get by 11. Possible, maybe. But it's also a sweet min-max.

If you want to beat him? Hire a Psion to 'play' with him. Or a level 14 evolotionist (If they pick the right tetromorphs and Mutations, martial classes and caster/manifesting classes are almost negated).

Where are these from? Pathfinder? I'm dead certain they're not official 3.5 material.

[Gavinfoxx]

Where are these from? Pathfinder? I'm dead certain they're not official 3.5 material.

Yea, Pathfinder. It's a Summoner Archetype. http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/summoner/archetypes/paizo---summoner-archetypes/evolutionist

[Zale]

If you want to beat him? Hire a Psion to 'play' with him. Or a level 14 evolotionist (If they pick the right tetromorphs and Mutations, martial classes and caster/manifesting classes are almost negated).

Depending on the psionics-magic transparency, that may not work.

Though the Evolutionist may. Not familiar enough with pathfinder to determine if they have any abilities that poof in AMF.

[Ipuntmidgets]

ok so to give some more information he is an archdragon dragon born template he got a level adjustment but i think he has almost bought it out with xp pay. idk what kind of arch dragon he is but the only thing that was homebrewed on this was the fact that he was able to get archdragon bloodline (doesn't appear in dragonborn list normally) everything else is wholly legitimate and to let you know when his level becomes that of equivalent red dragon he gets the same breath damage (d8's and such) idk if that is the actual dragon type that he is because him and the DM won't tell me. To let you know his breath is a 60ft cone that gives the ability to stun and deal no damage in the cone and also whenever he projects the breath onto himself he gets bonuses. the real reason that he can make an antimagic field at will (as the spell) is because he is immune to his own breath and he breaths through himself onto the opponent (sticks his hand out so the breath touches him and he gains AMF) also to let you know he is a gestault Favored soul/warblade (uses his warblade abilities while in AMF and both abilities while outside of AMF that and iron heart surge so very hard to kill outright) right now he is level 11 and gets equivalent damage as though a red dragon close to that level (again idk if that is his dragon but it is the only breath progression i have been able to follow) so he is very powerful inside and outside the AMF, but i am a level 11 elven generalist wizard with the collegiate wizard feat so i get 5 spells per level to learn on top of i bought all level 1,2,3 PHB 1 spells. i have all books for dungeons and dragons 3.5 (including the ever broke frostburn) so any spells or feats that you refer to all i ask is that that you give me the book that it is from so i can look it up myself. thank you all for your help, he is really kicking my ass with this sort of thing and i just want to put him in his place (getting stuck in a lot of dungeons with space just large enough for a large creature so his AMF blocks all my spells and i just sit there gaining xp) this doesn't sound like a bad thing to some but being a wizard and someone telling you that your the basic equivalent to a commoner with a good will save is a shot to teh pride. so i have asked the GM since the character has gestault a tier 2 and a tier 3 class plus AMF at will (breath weapon creates it) then i should be able to add gestault onto my class to (it doesnt help cus nothing i gestault will be as powerful as wish) the DM agreed but he said all i was allowed to gestault was the psion (better than nothing) he is using the rule that Magic and Psionics are the same so AMF fields affect both. In other words i am now a Psion/Wizard level 11 stuck in the same position as before just looking more Op as i sit back and take shots to the pride.

[Gavinfoxx]

[eyesore]

AHHH FORMATTING!!

[Tvtyrant]

Get some scrolls of Planar Binding and sick the things on him all at once. Offer them gold equal to what you will pick off of his corpse.

[Ipuntmidgets]

Also to Clarify i know that this campaign is going beyond level 20 and i will be able to make checks to overcome AMF (check is 50 and im thinking of stacking stuff to spellcraft to force this to work a little earlier). So there is that, but i do want to make sure that this person understands the power of the wizard. i don't know everything about the wizards, but i am pouring into each book looking for spells that may be able to counter AMF or force him to turn it off for a few rounds (again im a psion/wizard gestault level 11 now so if anyone has any suggestions for that i would most welcome to the idea and my DM says Psionics and Magic are the same in this campaign). Also to let you know i call a person who creates AMF fields through a breath weapon shots to the pride because i am a wizard and i am being outclassed by something that is supposed to be less versatile and less powerful than me simply because he has one added mechanic. i will be able to cast wish in a few levels so i think that a well worded wish could take care of it (force DM to get rid of field) or i can splice a little into truenamer taking only one level in it and breaking the universe to put this person in there place ( the DM believes that truenamers are the worst class in the game and i don't care to get in a discussion about it, but because of this he is willing to let me multiclass into it). and to let you guys know this is a campaign were we are fighting mostly dragons that are higher level than us and i can contribute nothing to the fight (if i summon something and character uses breath then the summons blink out near the dragon).

[demigodus]

First, try to use Capitalization and the enter key more often in your posts. Makes it easier to read.

Second, am I reading it correctly that you are, more or less, facing large sized dragons in tunnels that can barely fit large sized dragons?

Third, how big of an AMF does he create.

Fourth, I don't get how him being immune to his breath weapon turns it into a cone of AMF when he breathes through himself.

Now, as for how to be effective. Look for spells that are of the Conjuration School, and have duration: Instantaneous. You can fire these into an AMF, and their effects still happen. A popular line for this is the Orb of X (where X is an element) spells in Complete Arcane. You just need to make ranged touch attacks on the dragons to deal damage.

Alternatively, you can take powers on the psionic side that are Metacreativity with duration: Instantaneous. Just about any of the powers that blast crystals (look on the srd for them) work for this.

If he is doing the honor of killing dragons for you, then pick up the Animate Dead spell (lvl 4, you can find it on the srd). In the Draconomicon, on page 192 and page 197, you can find the special rules for using the spell on dragon corpses. Now you have an undead dragon, that can stroll into his AMF, and kick ass for you. Or get 2, each at double your Caster Level of Hit Dice.

If you are fighting in a tunnel, Transmute Rock to Mud (once again, from the srd) can let you drop the ceiling on a target. Won't kill them, but should stop them in their tracks.

As others suggested, use the Planar Binding line (once again, on the srd... notice how you can break the game completely using just core spells?), to get yourself a number of minions. Sure YOU can't walk into the AMF to beat up dragons. That is why you have the effects of your class feature do it for you!

I wouldn't suggest Truenamer though. Most of the forum that is proficient with the system agrees with your DM, and even those that consider the Truenamer to be a good class, still consider wizards and psions a lot better.

[Spuddles]

Gestalt psion wizard is op as hell.

Dweomer of transference and a source of an at will spell lets you refharge power points. The spell mental pinnacle gives you a bushel of power points, as well. Given the time, you can accrue thousands of power points. Both those can be found in xph.

In complete psionic there is the synchronicity power. Use link power, a feat from xph, to link augmented synchronicities to whatever power you want. Like telekinetic thrust. Congratulations, you can hurl as many boulders as you have actions, and you get as many actions as you want. These boulders will work in an AMF as long as you cast from outside.

Check out the variant psion, the erudite, in complete psionic. It's balls to the walls amazing. Learn ALL the powers! Try using mantled psion (a web enhancement from wotc; google for it) to get the magic mantle in complete psionics. Now see if you cant use your wizard feats on the psion feats and vice versa!

As far as doing stuff to things in AMFs, try calling outsiders with planar binding. There's a handbook around here on planar binding abuse. The orbs of fire spells from spell compendium are super cool. You can throw those into an amf, by the rules anyway.

The psionic power psychic reformation from xph lets you pay xp to retrain feats powers skills and spells. Get the item familiar feat from unearthed arcana. Congrats with the free, stacks with everything, +14 to spellcraft. Google spellcraft optimization. You can easily be hitting 50.

[GreenSerpent]

I'd go with my mage characters Ashorus Avakiri's age-old mantra.

"Even if they're immune to magic, they're almost certainly not immune to dropping a mountain on them. And if they're immune to that, then why on earth are you fighting them?"

As mentioned, if you can't hurt him with magic, Overland Flight out of his range and use Telekinesis to throw shrunken Colossal objects at him till he's dead. Bonus points if you get a Hurling Hulker to throw them for you.

Also, can he breathe underwater? If he can't, then Water Breathing him, go swimming, get out of his range then lob Orbs at him. He breathes and starts to kill himself. Hit him with Sink or drop a Wall of Iron on him to ensure he dies.

[Ipuntmidgets]

To answer a question, when a breath that the dragon born uses hits a person that person begins to emanate an antimagic field.

When he breaths it through himself he is able to keep the field on beyond the normal spell limits.

The AMF is exactly as the spell AMF without any variations (caster level of spell is replaced by his current level).

To let you guys know the last dragon that we fought was in human form (that's how he could be in a large place without taking up so much room). but again it is a dragon so still something difficult to deal with.

[Hyde]

Ermahgerd, formatting:

OP is a gestalt wizard/psion 11

OP-Enemy is an "arch-dragon" dragonborn favored soul/warblade with a stunning AMF breath-weapon.

Let's assume for a moment that the AMF stunning breath weapon isn't complete shenanigans (it is). Abilities are not usually something you can take part and parcel- either he takes the full effect, or none at all- he can't be selective about it and just snag the AMF.

[Slipperychicken]

I still stand by CDG in his sleep. If the breath weapon is (Sp)ell-like or (Su)pernatural and thus won't function in AMF, I have another idea:


Sculpt Spell AMF (7th level spell equivalent. If you have any metamagic-reducers), use the "four 10ft cubes" option. Wall of Stone first, to box him in. Then land the cubes of AMF all over him (taking out pretty much all his powers), using a Belt of Battle or other extra-action thingy like Celerity so it all happens on your turn. He should have a rough time getting out, in which time you fly over and drop things and hurl Orbs, reinforcing the Wall if need be.

Ideally, you can have the AMF thing (sculpted or Extraordinary Spell Aimed) as a readied action in case the assassin fails (Have him shout a signal to you if the Psion wakes up/survives).

[Spuddles]

I still stand by CDG in his sleep. If the breath weapon is (Sp)ell-like or (Su)pernatural and thus won't function in AMF, I have another idea:


Sculpt Spell AMF (7th level spell equivalent. If you have any metamagic-reducers), use the "four 10ft cubes" option. Wall of Stone first, to box him in. Then land the cubes of AMF all over him (taking out pretty much all his powers), using a Belt of Battle or other extra-action thingy like Celerity so it all happens on your turn. He should have a rough time getting out, in which time you fly over and drop things and hurl Orbs, reinforcing the Wall if need be.

Ideally, you can have the AMF thing (sculpted or Extraordinary Spell Aimed) as a readied action in case the assassin fails (Have him shout a signal to you if the Psion wakes up/survives).

IHS on his turn would turn off the AMF. Need to kill him in one round to be safe.

[GreenSerpent]

Dust Eggshell Grenades. Blind him, no save. 10gp a pop.

That should hold him up a bit. If he's got Blindsight then it's trickier.

I'd give him a nice little gift - Planar Bind a Succubus and send it to kiss him each night in his sleep. He'll start eventually failing those saves and losing levels.

Bonus points if he gets Charmed into loving the succubus.

Or, if you want to be horrendous. Make an oath with him that he breaks somehow.

Then set the Inevitables on him. You kill one, they make another one to do the job but stronger.

[Jack_Simth]

Edit: Oh, man I'm behind. Eh, oh well.


Don't get into fights with cheaters.

There are no options to do the things that he does anywhere in 3.5, to my knowledge, and I would be shocked if I hadn't heard of either of these things.
I don't know... I think there's a few cheesy tricks I could pull that could make something very, very similar to what's described in a way that's technically RAW (it'd be a ray, not a breath weapon, but would work that way).

Class build would be something like Wizard(Abjuration Specialist)-2/Master Specialist-10/Red Wizard of Thay-5 - Master Specialist-10 lets you put an Abjuration centred on you on someone else as a touch spell, Red Wizard of Thay 5 lets you be a circle leader, and Heighten spells up the wazoo, which then means you have a very high spell slot to feed into Extra Spell, and then use that slot to power Innate Spell.

A bit high level, though. A little more likely dumping Master Specialist but otherwise using a similar build and making use of Antimagic Rays for Innate Spell. Maybe.

Or more likely: Homebrew of some kind. The DM should know.

[animewatcha]

Any chance the guy can be hit with aboleth mucus ( enough times till failing save ? )

[Aquillion]

Hire a few warblades to run at him, Iron Heart Surge, and you follow through with a big spell to blow him up with.
He's level 11, which means he has an Initiator level of 5 for the purposes of Martial Study. He doesn't need a Warblade; he can take the Martial Study feat and learn Iron Heart Surge himself.

(Iron Heart Surge is useful enough that this actually makes sense for a wizard.)

[Ekul]

I'll admit it, I'm a horrible DM. I'm pretty much the worst DM in the group. This is no news to Ipuntmidgets or the other player. It's just that sometimes neither wants to GM.

Honestly, I should have expected it, but I tend to underestimate the guy whose breath weapon is Anti-magic.

[Baron Corm]

You can get a EX breath weapon and at will AMF from the evolutionist, but it would be a pain to get by 11. Possible, maybe. But it's also a sweet min-max.

If you want to beat him? Hire a Psion to 'play' with him. Or a level 14 evolotionist (If they pick the right tetromorphs and Mutations, martial classes and caster/manifesting classes are almost negated).

Couldn't find any evolution that gives an AMF, or anything called a tetromorph, in the PfSRD. Could you elaborate on them? They sound pretty interesting.

[Answerer]

I'll admit it, I'm a horrible DM. I'm pretty much the worst DM in the group. This is no news to Ipuntmidgets or the other player. It's just that sometimes neither wants to GM.

Honestly, I should have expected it, but I tend to underestimate the guy whose breath weapon is Anti-magic.
The ability on its own isn't too bad, especially compared to a Psion//Wizard who knows what he's doing.

The concern was more that the guy in question was pulling this out of his ass and pulling the wool over the eyes of whoever was DMing. Someone doing that is liable to pull something else out of his ass if he gets countered, which is why it didn't seem worth the fight.

If the character in question has actual rules for how his abilities work, and you know them and he doesn't have wiggle room to pull out some heretofore unknown (even to the DM) ability, then it should be fine.