Quinggong Monk Questions (PF)

[The Redwolf]

The Quinggong Monk stacks with any other archetypes because it is completely optional to overwrite anything, this much I like. One thing I was wondering though, is if you can use it to overwrite alternate class features you get from the other archetypes. For example, Quinggong Monk allows you to remove things like Abundant Step, Diamond Body, Tongue of Sun and Moon, etc, but would it allow you to remove the things that correlate to them in a similar fashion, even though the aren't expressly stated there? I know this steps into RAI territory rather than RAW since it doesn't specify, but I was just wondering because that seems like it gives a lot of potential to deeply customize archetypes.

[Larpus]

Well, I'd say that yeah, it's sort of RAI, otherwise we face a similar problem as the Fighter archetypes that trade Weapon Training away for a more focused version.

I mean, there is simply no way for the archetype to list the abilities you can trade while, at the same time, being list-less so it's 100% compatible with any archetype created after its printing.

Still, it's a case-by-case DM call, as there is no direct evidence that it's RAI and may open discussions the DM might be unwilling to make, such as, would then, a Vivisectionist be able to apply Bomb discoveries to his Sneak Attack?

[The Redwolf]

So I should really just talk with my DM about it then.

[Drelua]

So I should really just talk with my DM about it then.

Yeah, that's probably the best idea. For an example that should help persuade him, look at the Wanderer (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/core-races/human/wanderer-monk-human) and Flowing Monk (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-archetypes/flowing-monk) Archetypes. They can both be used on the same character, but some problems come up once you get to level 15. Then Flowing Monk gets the ability to reflect a spell back on the caster if they fail to beat his SR, but Wanderer has already traded away Diamond Soul. Most players won't want a cool ability that they can never use. That is of course, unless they get SR from some other source, and I can't think of any way for a human monk to do that.

[The Redwolf]

Yeah, that's probably the best idea. For an example that should help persuade him, look at the Wanderer (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/core-races/human/wanderer-monk-human) and Flowing Monk (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-archetypes/flowing-monk) Archetypes. They can both be used on the same character, but some problems come up once you get to level 15. Then Flowing Monk gets the ability to reflect a spell back on the caster if they fail to beat his SR, but Wanderer has already traded away Diamond Soul. Most players won't want a cool ability that they can never use. That is of course, unless they get SR from some other source, and I can't think of any way for a human monk to do that.

Is there a way to get that reflecting ability with Quinggong Monk?

[Drelua]

Is there a way to get that reflecting ability with Quinggong Monk?

If you mean use Qinggong to get that ability, no. Of course, you could just make a Flowing Qinggong Monk without Wanderer to conflict with it; I do find that Flowing Monk is a pretty fun archetype.

Wait, I just realized that you could use Qinggong to get Diamond Soul Back even if you did take Flowing and Wanderer. I'm not quite sure how I missed that. Of course, it has nothing to do with your question. :smallredface:

[The Redwolf]

If you mean use Qinggong to get that ability, no. Of course, you could just make a Flowing Qinggong Monk without Wanderer to conflict with it; I do find that Flowing Monk is a pretty fun archetype.

Wait, I just realized that you could use Qinggong to get Diamond Soul Back even if you did take Flowing and Wanderer. I'm not quite sure how I missed that. Of course, it has nothing to do with your question. :smallredface:

I'm using Monk of the Four Winds and Quinggong already, I don't think I could use Flowing also.

[Drelua]

Yeah, they both replace Stunning Fist. Oh well, a lot of games don't even make it to level 15 and the ability can be pretty expensive at spell level/2 ki points per use.

[The Redwolf]

Yeah, they both replace Stunning Fist. Oh well, a lot of games don't even make it to level 15 and the ability can be pretty expensive at spell level/2 ki points per use.

We're starting at 17, but I like the things I get from Four Winds better, I'm just trying to see if I can replace the slow time thing, because it really kinda sucks since someone pointed out the limitations it has. The elemental fist, aspect master, and immortality are all nice though.