[PF] Trying To Make A Geisha [Build Help]

[AvianMalkavian]

Hello, fellow forumites, I'm hoping some of you might be able to help me with a character idea I'm working on.

I'm wanting to make a geisha character for the local Pathfinder Society game and I'm just not sure how to go about it. My knowledge of Pathfinder and d20 in general isn't exactly perfect, although I'm fairly certain that the Geisha archetype in Ultimate Magic is horrible. However, the Lotus Geisha archetype in the Dragon Empires Primer isn't.. as bad. Basically, what I want to do is make a character that is flavorful without being completely ineffective.

How do I go about this? What should I take?

[Boci]

The most important questions are, 1. What is a geisha to you? and 2. How much are you looking for mechanical advice and how much for rolepay?

For example, if you want an assassination tactic to be taking people to bed and then attacking them when they are naked and distracted, all you need mechanically is decent charisma and a way hide a weapon/fight unarmed. The rest is roleplay.

Rogue is the obvious class, and the knife master is a decent archetype, giving you 1d8 sneak attack with the dagger and half your level to sleight of hands to hide it. You lose trap sense, but that isn't particularly geisha-y to me. Poison master is another option. See if you can get immunity to a specific type of poison and then you can you it more indiscriminately (poisoning the pot of tea/tisane rather than a single cup).

Also remember to have a really high disguise skill in case your target has a preference for a different race/gender.

[Andvare]

You get a bonus, via feats, to enchantment spells, so make sure to take those.

Otherwise, this guide should help:

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/community-creations/treatmonks-lab/test2

Just remember that you have lost Bardic Knowledge and Well Versed.
Edit: And Lore Master.

[AvianMalkavian]

The most important questions are, 1. What is a geisha to you? and 2. How much are you looking for mechanical advice and how much for rolepay?

For example, if you want an assassination tactic to be taking people to bed and then attacking them when they are naked and distracted, all you need mechanically is decent charisma and a way hide a weapon/fight unarmed. The rest is roleplay.

Rogue is the obvious class, and the knife master is a decent archetype, giving you 1d8 sneak attack with the dagger and half your level to sleight of hands to hide it. You lose trap sense, but that isn't particularly geisha-y to me. Poison master is another option. See if you can get immunity to a specific type of poison and then you can you it more indiscriminately (poisoning the pot of tea/tisane rather than a single cup).

Also remember to have a really high disguise skill in case your target has a preference for a different race/gender.

Well, from my understanding, geisha aren't prostitutes or assassins. They're artists, hostesses, and entertainers. True, this obviously isn't all they do if they've also taken up adventuring. As far as advice, I'm mostly looking for that of the mechanical variety. I've been doing a fair bit of reading up on geisha and the like, so I think I have a handle on how to roleplay one.

[Boci]

Well, from my understanding, geisha aren't prostitutes or assassins. They're artists, hostesses, and entertainers. True, this obviously isn't all they do if they've also taken up adventuring. As far as advice, I'm mostly looking for that of the mechanical variety. I've been doing a fair bit of reading up on geisha and the like, so I think I have a handle on how to roleplay one.

Historically you are right, but popular culture tends to portray them as I do, because they are more fun that way. Ultimately, geishas were whoever their client wanted them to be. If you are going for historical accuracy, then you will want to be client searching periodically, which would probably require prior discussion with the DM/other players. Remember to be open with your skills, and to keep a professional distance. Because of the versatility required, anything that allows you to use skills untrained, or grants a floating bonus various skills will be one of the more important thing to your character.

[AvianMalkavian]

In that case, it might make more sense to go base Bard instead of taking an Archetype. Lotus Geisha is much better than the Ultimate Magic Geisha, but I lose Bardic Knowledge, Well-Versed and Lore Master, and it makes sense for Geisha to be skill monkeys.

[Boci]

In that case, it might make more sense to go base Bard instead of taking an Archetype. Lotus Geisha is much better than the Ultimate Magic Geisha, but I lose Bardic Knowledge, Well-Versed and Lore Master, and it makes sense for Geisha to be skill monkeys.

One thing to consider is that you could be a permanent client to one of the other PCs, maybe you started out of a geisha for a short period but then they noticed you had some skills that would serve them during their adventurers. Your professional relationship could have developed from there. This could allow you to have some maxxed out skills, since you know that is what they like. Obviously you will need to discuss this with them.

If this doesn't work out, or you want to roeplay going from one client to another, you will need to spread your skills thin. You simply cannot afford to be really good in something that your client may have no interest in. Choose one performance to specialize in, but keep others open as well. You will want at least 3 (I'd recommend dance, string instruments and sing, although oratory and acting could also be useful). At least one or two professions would also help. Disguise (either the skill or the spell) is very important here because, unlike japan, there will be a large variety of races for you to pick clients from, and you need to make sure you can be visually appealing to all of them. For this reason, linguistics will also be important.

[Andvare]

To be honest, a Lotus Geisha might not work that well, roleplay wise, in a Pathfinder Society campaign. They are, the campaigns, a bit restrictive on roleplay outside adventuring in my experience.

I'd focus more on spell casting than usual with a Geisha, due to the feats you get.
This means that you should get a high charisma (which also fits quite well into your character as a geisha) to get a higher success rate with the spells. 16 or more preferably.
Hideous Laughter is a good spell at first level for an enchantment bard.
Charm Person is also great, if not that useful in combat.
Sleep is also quite good for the first three levels. though somewhat useless after that, so is a good candidate for a switch at level five.

Other than that, I'd go with the ranged bard from the guide, just put some more point into charisma (the guide is based on 15-point buy, you have 20 in PFS) and use a race that gives you a bonus in dexterity and charisma. Yes, that is a halfling geisha :smallbiggrin: .

[Arutema]

I'm wanting to make a geisha character for the local Pathfinder Society

I hate to say this, but Pathfinder Society may not be the best place for this concept, given that most of it's adventures invariably end up as dungeon crawls.

Having good socials skills certainly helps. (You have no idea how many times I've seen a 7 Cha fighter fail their faction mission due to terrible diplomacy/intimadate/bluff.) Just be ready when it's inevitably time to raid a tomb and smash up undead.

[Arutema]

Other than that, I'd go with the ranged bard from the guide, just put some more point into charisma (the guide is based on 15-point buy, you have 20 in PFS) and use a race that gives you a bonus in dexterity and charisma. Yes, that is a halfling geisha :smallbiggrin: .

Depending on when you are starting, you may have more exotic choices. PFS head honcho Mike Brock revealed at PaizoCon UK that new races are being added effective Aug 16th, and those races are expected to be announced later today.

I'd follow the Paizo blog with keen interest.

[Boci]

Other than that, I'd go with the ranged bard from the guide, just put some more point into charisma (the guide is based on 15-point buy, you have 20 in PFS) and use a race that gives you a bonus in dexterity and charisma. Yes, that is a halfling geisha :smallbiggrin: .

Not a bad choice. Adaptable luck is just what you need (3/day +2 to an ability check, attack roll, saving throw, or skill check), and the expanded linguistic ability is also useful (although linguistic would already be a class skill).

Still, I'd recommend kitsune. They have the same ability modifiers, but they are medium (its easily to disguise yourself as a different race than to increase your size), and they fit the eastern theme. Plus they can give a -2 to will saves vs their charm effects to any creature they successfully use diplomacy on.

[Andvare]

Depending on when you are starting, you may have more exotic choices. PFS head honcho Mike Brock revealed at PaizoCon UK that new races are being added effective Aug 16th, and those races are expected to be announced later today.

I'd follow the Paizo blog with keen interest.

Yeah, the real reason I went with halfling, besides that they are quite decent at the job and I find the idea of a geisha halfling funny, is that I have little knowledge to what races are actually allowed in PFS.

I find PFS quite boring to be honest and think it would have worked better with 4e rules. They are both MMOs with dice and paper.

[Arutema]

Aasimar, Tiefling and Tengu have been announced as the new playable races. Some of these races have variants that give bonuses to Dex and Cha. (Rakshasa-spawn Tiefling, and Azata-spawn Aasimar).

Neither are bad choices for bard. Heck, stock Aasimar isn't either.

[AvianMalkavian]

I think I'm going to go with Human, and stick with Lotus Geisha instead of straight Bard. I'm not sure how often I'll get to use Fascinate and Suggestion and stuff like that, but its worth a shot.

However, I'm curious, what Feats are good for a Bard? I'm afraid I don't have all the books so I don't know of everything that's useful.

[QuidEst]

I think I'm going to go with Human, and stick with Lotus Geisha instead of straight Bard. I'm not sure how often I'll get to use Fascinate and Suggestion and stuff like that, but its worth a shot.

However, I'm curious, what Feats are good for a Bard? I'm afraid I don't have all the books so I don't know of everything that's useful.

Well, if you're sure, human certainly works, but Kitsune makes up for the bonus feat by giving you +1 to enchantment DCs (equivalent to Spell Focus, but it stacks!), plus they can get the Gregarious alternate racial feature to give people you win over with Diplomacy a penalty against any Cha-based skills you use for the next day. Their stat adjustments are a bit better, and they pass for human.

Feats! I really like Lingering Performance. If you're willing to spend actions, you can triple your Bardic Performance rounds per day! (Remember, you still have the group-buff options.) Once you hit level 7, you're only spending move actions, which makes this really nice. By 13th, it's fantastic!

Forget books… http://www.d20pfsrd.com/ has everything. Sorting out PFS-legal can be a bit of a pain, I'm afraid. The Feat DB lets you download the feats as various file types, though, so you can filter by source. :smallsmile:

[Benly]

Just something to note: while the Ultimate Magic Geisha gets a lot of flak, it's actually not as terrible as everyone thinks when you actually look at what it gains and loses. It trades bardic knowledge for an equivalent bonus to other skills, it trades light armor for bonus Scribe Scroll, and it trades a bard's oddball proficiency collection for a monk weapon. That's not an amazing trade, but if you want to focus on diplomacy instead of knowledge and you're not planning to frontline, it's not a bad one either - the only other bard archetype that gets a similar diplomacy bonus trades out bardic music, as I recall. Tea Ceremony is kind of hard to use well, but you don't actually lose anything to get it so it's a bit of a wash.

[QuidEst]

Just something to note: while the Ultimate Magic Geisha gets a lot of flak, it's actually not as terrible as everyone thinks when you actually look at what it gains and loses. It trades bardic knowledge for an equivalent bonus to other skills, it trades light armor for bonus Scribe Scroll, and it trades a bard's oddball proficiency collection for a monk weapon. That's not an amazing trade, but if you want to focus on diplomacy instead of knowledge and you're not planning to frontline, it's not a bad one either - the only other bard archetype that gets a similar diplomacy bonus trades out bardic music, as I recall. Tea Ceremony is kind of hard to use well, but you don't actually lose anything to get it so it's a bit of a wash.

Yeah, I was just noticing that- the bonus to perform is fantastic for a social Bard. Take it to Sing, and you're getting half your class level to Diplomacy, Bluff, and Sense Motive, with Sense Motive now tied to your primary stat instead of a dump stat. Trading in light armor is pretty rough, though. =/

[Crasical]

Trading in light armor is pretty rough, though. =/

Can I interest you in some fine silks, sir? (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/armor/eastern-armor-and-shields) It's a not-insubstantial 3 point drop from the chain shirt bards are used to, but it's better than nothing.

[QuidEst]

Can I interest you in some fine silks, sir? (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/armor/eastern-armor-and-shields) It's a not-insubstantial 3 point drop from the chain shirt bards are used to, but it's better than nothing.

My first thought was "But you still don't have proficien- oh." :smalltongue: Yeah- it's just a little insulting to see the sorcerer walk by with his Extended Mage Armor on.