Does the Factotum need to be fixed?

[aabicus]

As my favorite class, I've found ways to make the Factotum do almost anything. Honestly, when I read the way the class is built, I fear he's a bit overpowered.

Compared to the core classes, do you think he should be nerfed, at least a little bit? One fix I always thought would fit the concept is: While he gets every skill as a class skill, he can only have a max rank of 2+Character level. That way, other classes who optimize a skill can beat him, making him a jack of all trades, master of none.

[Answerer]

The Factotum is definitely quite a bit stronger/more flexible than the Barbarian, Fighter, Monk, Paladin, and Ranger. Its most direct comparison is with the Rogue, and it is probably a bit better than the Rogue (though definitely not strictly better). It's pretty comparable to the Bard.

The Cleric, Druid, Sorcerer, and Wizard are way, way more powerful than the Factotum could ever hope to be.

If "Core" means "SRD", then we include Psionics, and the Psion is a lot more powerful, the Wilder is probably a bit more powerful, the Psychic Warrior is probably comparable, and the Soulknife is a lot weaker.


But really, Core is probably a poor balance point. If for no other reason other than that is is very much not a point – Core has by-far the widest disparity between strongest (probably Wizard) and weakest (probably Monk, possibly Soulknife if including Psionics) classes of any book ever printed for 3.5.

Over all of 3.5, Factotum fits neatly in the middle-range of power, IMO. It's pretty comparable to other Tier-3 classes, and Tier-3's tend to do well in most encounters while rarely having automatic win buttons. I generally consider the class very well balanced.

[Ernir]

If the Factotum needs fixing, it isn't due to power level. What I'd like to see fixed are the descriptions of its abilities. Its action economy is poorly defined, as is the stacking of some of the features, and how they serve as prerequisites.
The whole thing somehow works, but the writing is really sloppy.

Another thing that annoys me is that the Inspiration supply is either too low (no Fonts of Inspiration) or barely limited (lots of Fonts of Inspiration).

But really, Core is probably a poor balance point. If for no other reason other than that is is very much not a point – Core has by-far the widest disparity between strongest (probably Wizard) and weakest (probably Monk, possibly Soulknife if including Psionics) classes of any book ever printed for 3.5.
I think Complete Psionic might at least give it a run for its money with the Erudite and the Divine Mind. :smalltongue:
(But yes, I agree with your point that core isn't a balance point.)

[Answerer]

Non-StP Erudite is not more powerful than Wizard, and StP was an online-only supplement. Loathe as I am to state anything positive about the travesty that is the Divine Mind, it's probably mechanically stronger/more flexible than the Monk.

I will agree that Complete Psionics does give it a run for its money, but it's not there, I think. I'll go further and state that even though Complete Psionics' balance was slightly tighter than Core's, it is without a doubt the worst-written book for 3.5.

[Greyfeld85]

I don't think it needs fixing, at least not in the way the OP describes it. But I've always had this personal issue with the class, that I don't really like how its built. The whole "jack of all trades" thing is a nice idea on paper, but the class steps on way too many toes in the process, and never really develops an identity of its own.

The person who made the class essentially stole a handful of class features from several different classes and hobbled them together onto one class without any idea of focus and without regard to how the class would fit in with the rest of the system.

I don't think it's a coincidence that the wide majority of Factotum builds involve gnomish quickrazors and iaijutsu focus; it's the only real niche it carves out for itself, with the abusive nature of the poor wording of its class features and the complete lack of any other class outside of OA with unrestricted access to the skill.

[Person_Man]

It's a fairly good Tier 3 class, which some people consider the "ideal" balance point for 3.5/PF. If anything, from a pure combat perspective it's a bit weak unless you know various tricks - Alter Self, Iajutsu Focus, Obtain Familiar, Domain feats, using your bonus Standard Actions for spells and not an additional attack, etc. A generic Fighter will generally outperform it in terms of damage and opposed checks unless you do a good job selecting buffs.

[Ashtagon]

For me, the problem with the factotum is that it rides roughshod over the basic assumptions of D&D.

D&D is fundamentally a class-based system, and the existence of classes implies niche protection. Each class has a niche which it is specialised in and optimised for, and other classes in theory should not be able to do so well at that niche. Then along comes a class who basically says "I can do your job".

[Flickerdart]

D&D is fundamentally a class-based system, and the existence of classes implies niche protection. Each class has a niche which it is specialised in and optimised for, and other classes in theory should not be able to do so well at that niche. Then along comes a class who basically says "I can do your job".
Yes, we all know how overpowered full casters are, but what's that got to do with Factotums? :smallwink:

[HunterOfJello]

In terms of balance, I think it's fairly obvious that factotum have specific areas in which they are very weak. Factotums can't pump out damage over the course of a day like a Barbarian, occasional Rogue, or Sorcerer can. They also don't have the survivability of many other classes. Are they great at a long laundry list of things? Definitely. Are they great at everything? No.


I don't think there is any form of perfect balance in 3.5 in any sense. Factotums come in at a nice Tier 3 level. The PHB classes form a range of Tier 1 to Tier 5. Balance is already out the window in any discussion of PHB classes. Do factotums balance out in comparison to ALL the classes in 3.5? I think they do. It's a great class with a number of great qualities and a number of faults compared to others. It doesn't do everything and isn't a 1 man party because it isn't meant to be.

[eggs]

If the factotum needs a fix, it's in clarification.

The class gets a lot of its ability from abusing ambiguities and poor phrasings. The Iajitsu/Quickrazor thing, for instance, is often the difference between a Factotum with some melee competence and an item-reliant combat bumbler, and it relies on using an outdated and setting-specific skill completely contrary to the fiction it's supposed to model. That's not necessarily a bad tactic to allow, but establishing whether or not it can be expected of the class would play a huge role in determining how to balance it.

Similarly, Arcane Dilettante's casting times by RAW are all Standard Actions. That's cool, and it's at the heart of quite a few of the Factotum's unique tricks, but since it seems like a pretty big deal not to have been even mentioned in the class writeup, and it looks like an element which may have been overlooked by the writers and which may be overlooked by some players (but which is a pretty big deal in terms of the unique tricks the Factotum can pull off).

I've seen enough factotums overlook those two elements and spend the 2nd+ rounds of combat flailing around like monks that hitting the class out with a flat nerf seems like a very bad idea; at least without taking cursory steps toward laying out which rulings and tools can be expected to be available to a "typical" Factotum.

[Slipperychicken]

It's a fairly good Tier 3 class, which some people consider the "ideal" balance point for 3.5/PF. If anything, from a pure combat perspective it's a bit weak unless you know various tricks - Alter Self, Iajutsu Focus, Obtain Familiar, Domain feats, using your bonus Standard Actions for spells and not an additional attack, etc. A generic Fighter will generally outperform it in terms of damage and opposed checks unless you do a good job selecting buffs.

This. Factotums are excellent at skills, passable for utility-magic, and lacking in combat except for a few tricks. Even if he can finagle Iaijutsu to work, a Factotum is lagging ~2 dice behind the Rogue's Sneak Attack.

Well-balanced overall, although some abilities do need to be more clearly defined (and that's more for ease-of-use than balance). Does Cunning Surge work more than once/round? Can you use Cunning Strike to add more than one d6 to an attack? And how does that 19th level ability interact with spellcasting? Even if you favorably interpret all of these, the Factotum doesn't really change, power-wise.

[Blackfang108]

Non-StP Erudite is not more powerful than Wizard, and StP was an online-only supplement. Loathe as I am to state anything positive about the travesty that is the Divine Mind, it's probably mechanically stronger/more flexible than the Monk.

I will agree that Complete Psionics does give it a run for its money, but it's not there, I think. I'll go further and state that even though Complete Psionics' balance was slightly tighter than Core's, it is without a doubt the worst-written book for 3.5.

Honestly, I think the CPsi hate is overblown. Some of it I get, but I truly think it's better written than CChamp. (If nothing else, it's formatted better.)