3.5 Books For Bards

[SixWingedAsura]

Hi there, remember me? Well, some of you might. I decided against trying to bring a Gunslinger over from Pathfinder as I have next to no time in order to do it (our D&D group got put together with almost unheard of speed and we're starting at the end of this week.) So I decided to go with another choice: Bard.

In order to provide the maximum amount of support to my party in addition to being an awesome manipulative bastard, I wanted to ask what kind of books would have Bard materials. I have a metric butt-ton of books ranging from Eberron to Ravenloft and Forgotten Realms. So the question being, what 3.5 books would have items/spells/feats that would best support a bard? (this is assuming that I won't be multiclassing or going into paragon classes as I'm a novice and have next to no idea how to balance multiple classes to create an effective character.)

[gorfnab]

The Bard's Handbook (http://www.brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=8284.0) and the Inspire Courage Optimization Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=9830) would be a good place to start.

Usually for support Bards I recommend Bard 8/ Virtuoso 2/ Sublime Chord 2/ Virtuoso 8.

[LeroyThad]

The complete scoundrel is just loaded with goodies, but otherwise you might find these useful as baselines.

http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19870498/The_Bards_Handbook

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148101

Also if you want to be an amazingly manipulative bastard, you might be interested in the Insidious Corruptor prestige, provided your DM can waive the Drow prereq or you can just play as a Drow.

Hope this helps.:smallfurious:

[SixWingedAsura]

The complete scoundrel is just loaded with goodies, but otherwise you might find these useful as baselines.

http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19870498/The_Bards_Handbook

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148101

Also if you want to be an amazingly manipulative bastard, you might be interested in the Insidious Corruptor prestige, provided your DM can waive the Drow prereq or you can just play as a Drow.

Hope this helps.:smallfurious:

Heh, I've actually already read some of the Bard's Handbook and will of course be taking a few pages from that as inspiration. And as far as going Drow...well, I was orginally planning on playing Chaotic Neutral Human as I don't want everyone and their brother attempting to murder me for being a Drow. They don't have the best of reputations after all, and it's easier to manipulate people if they trust you on first sight.

EDIT: What book has the Insidious Corruptor anywho?

[gorfnab]

Here is what I suggest.

Silverbrow Human Bard 8/ Virtuoso 2/ Sublime Chord 2/ Virtuoso 8
1. Melodic Casting, Dragonfire Inspiration
3. Draconic Heritage: Battle Dragon
6. Snowflake Wardance
9. Words of Creation
12. *
15. *
18. *

*Lingering Song, Lyric Song, Versatile Spellcaster, Knowledge Devotion, Doomspeak, Captivating Melody, or what not. Browse through the Bard's Handbook (as listed in my previous post) and see what you like.

Swap Countersong for Spellbreaker Song.
Swap Fascinate for Hymn of Healing
Swap Suggestion for Song of the Heart feat (ECS)
Spells: Inspirational Boost, Creaking Cacophony
Items: Crystal Echoblade, Badge of Valor

[SixWingedAsura]

Here is what I suggest.

Silverbrow Human Bard 8/ Virtuoso 2/ Sublime Chord 2/ Virtuoso 8
1. Melodic Casting, Dragonfire Inspiration
3. Draconic Heritage: Battle Dragon
6. Snowflake Wardance
9. Words of Creation
12. *
15. *
18. *

*Lingering Song, Lyric Song, Versatile Spellcaster, Knowledge Devotion, Doomspeak, Captivating Melody, or what not. Browse through the Bard's Handbook (as listed in my previous post) and see what you like.

Swap Countersong for Spellbreaker Song.
Swap Fascinate for Hymn of Healing
Swap Suggestion for Song of the Heart feat (ECS)
Spells: Inspirational Boost, Creaking Cacophony
Items: Crystal Echoblade, Badge of Valor

Couple things, one: Where will I find these classes/feats in what books? (I have far too many books to go through and I begin the first encounter this Friday...) and two, my DM has allowed Leadership. Should I take it?

[gorfnab]

Couple things, one: Where will I find these classes/feats in what books? (I have far too many books to go through and I begin the first encounter this Friday...)
Silverbrow Human - Dragon Magic
Virtuoso - Complete Adventurer
Sublime Chord - Complete Arcane
Melodic Casting - Complete Mage
Dragonfire Inspiration - Dragon Magic
Draconic Heritage: Battle Dragon - Races of the Dragon
Snowflake Wardance - Frostburn
Words of Creation - Book of Exalted Deeds
Lingering Song - Complete Adventurer
Lyric Spell - Complete Adventurer
Versatile Spellcaster - Races of the Dragon
Knowledge Devotion - Complete Champion
Doomspeak - Champions of Ruin
Captivating Melody - Complete Mage
Spellbreaker Song - Complete Mage
Hymn of Healing - Complete Champion
Song of the Heart - Eberron Campaign Setting (see also page 34 Music of Creation, feat itself is on page 60)
Inspirational Boost - Spell Compendium
Creaking Cacophony - Spell Compendium
Crystal Echoblade - Magic Item Complendium
Badge of Valor - Magic Item Compendium

and two, my DM has allowed Leadership. Should I take it?
Yes, at 12th level if using the build I presented in the previous post. Could also be taken at 9th level if you switch Words of Creation to 12th.

[SixWingedAsura]

Awesomesauce! Thanks for all the help!

Also, would it be a wise idea to take Extra Music or whatever the name of the feat that gives you more music per day is?

EDIT: Also, how do you get access to Sublime Chord 2? It looks like it says you can't exit the class until you have a full 10 levels?

[gorfnab]

Also, would it be a wise idea to take Extra Music or whatever the name of the feat that gives you more music per day is?

Extra Music (Complete Adventurer) would an okay feat to add in if you're planning to take Lyric Spell. It can also be handy at lower levels when you have a limited number of music per day. If your DM allows the option to take flaws for feats at first level it would be a decent option


EDIT: Also, how do you get access to Sublime Chord 2? It looks like it says you can't exit the class until you have a full 10 levels?
I'm not fully sure what you mean. Basically 2 levels of Sublime Chord net you Song of Arcane Power and accelerated spellcasting.

Since Virtuoso allows you too change what spellcasting to advance at each level if you have multiple sources of spellcasting (in this case Bard and Sublime Chord), you'll actually end up advancing the Sublime Chord casting for the last 8 levels of the build, thus giving you access to those juicy 9th level sorc/wiz spells.

[The-Mage-King]

I'm not fully sure what you mean. Basically 2 levels of Sublime Chord net you Song of Arcane Power and accelerated spellcasting.

Pretty sure he's wondering about multiclassing out of Prestige Classes.


Since neither have a clause saying you can't multiclass, you can multiclass away from them/back into them.

[SixWingedAsura]

I just realized I won't be able to take Draconic Heritage because one of it's prereqs is being a level 1 Sorcerer.

[The-Mage-King]

In that case...


Go back to normal Human, swap out Melodic Casting for Dragontouched, and slot it in where you have a spot. If your DM lets you have flaws, take it as one.


Since Dragontouched lets you take Draconic feats as though you were a Sorcerer of your character level...


A simple change.

[gorfnab]

I just realized I won't be able to take Draconic Heritage because one of it's prereqs is being a level 1 Sorcerer.
That's what the Silverbrow Human is for. Silverbrow Humans count as Dragontouched for the purposes of feats and whatnot.

[The-Mage-King]

That's what the Silverbrow Human is for. Silverbrow Humans count as Dragontouched for the purposes of feats and whatnot.

No, they don't. They have theDragonblood subtype, yes, but that doesn't make them count as Sorcerers for feats that require Sorcerer.


You need the Dragontouched Feat for that.

[SixWingedAsura]

No, they don't. They have theDragonblood subtype, yes, but that doesn't make them count as Sorcerers for feats that require Sorcerer.


You need the Dragontouched Feat for that.

So if that's the case, it might be better for me to instead go with a normal Human, take the Dragontouched Feat and attain the extra skill point/points that being a human gives me?

[The-Mage-King]

Yeah, which is what I suggested instead, after thinking about it for a moment.


If your DM allows flaws, pick up Melodic Casting, DFI, and Dragontouched at first level. If not, you can probably shift Snowflake Wardance a bit later and move the Heritage feat up to 6th to make room for melodic casting at 3rd level.

[SixWingedAsura]

Any idea as to what book has the flaws and flaw rules?

[gorfnab]

Any idea as to what book has the flaws and flaw rules?
Unearthed Arcana - Usually most DMs I've played with have allowed up to two flaws for two feats. Some other flaws here (http://www.realmshelps.net/datafind/feats.shtml)

Note: After doing some reading I have come to the conclusion that the Dragonblood subtype was poorly written.

[SixWingedAsura]

Frail and Vulnerable seem like very small inconvenience for being able to get TWO extra feats...

[LeroyThad]

Insidious corrupter comes from Drow of the Underdark, an excellent book for more than just game with drow.

Also I just want to say I love instruments with enchantments like wailing and other fearful effects. You may be intersted :smallwink:

[Talionis]

Doomspeak -- Champions of Ruin
Stormsinger Prestige Class -- Frostburn

[Kuulvheysoon]

There's always the Half-Drow (RoF) or the lesser Drow (also Rof?) for an LA0 Drow alternative.