We would like to upgrade our ship, and...

[realbombchu]

We own a pinnace (a ship from Stormwrack, not very big but functional) and there's no shortage of magical upgrades for ships. With some creativity, we could upgrade it into a very effective home base, but I don't think we have the money. Even if we all pitch in, I think it'll limit the equipment that we have for ourselves, and put us behind the expected wealth by level standards.

Do you think it would be ok if I asked the DM to give us more treasure, with the understanding that we use it to upgrade our ship? Do you think he should give it to us in the form of the upgrades themselves, in offers by NPCs to upgrade the ship as payment, or just as solid treasure that we can sell to craft or purchase the upgrades ourselves?

About how much more should he give us? Enough for another PC seems about right to me, because we'll need enchanted ballistas and stuff like that.

Finally, how do we tell if our ship is strong enough for our character level? I don't know if there is a "vehicle power by level" table somewhere. Thanks for all the help.

[AWiz_Abroad]

How we handled it in our campaign was essentially after clearing an abandoned mithril mine, we by virtue of might makes right, set up a mining operation. All the millions in GP equated to (for our castle) a certain amount of stronghold squares + various level appropriate upgrades.

Our DM set it up, and based on how much of the mine we cleared (ie we left the terrifying dragonbone golem alone, as well as the naturally invisible air elemental) we got X amount of upgrades we could add.

Basically, talk to DM.

[ThiagoMartell]

Do you think it would be ok if I asked the DM to give us more treasure, with the understanding that we use it to upgrade our ship? Do you think he should give it to us in the form of the upgrades themselves, in offers by NPCs to upgrade the ship as payment, or just as solid treasure that we can sell to craft or purchase the upgrades ourselves?

It would be very OK.
One of the parties I DM for has an elemental airship. I gave them 30000 GP to furnish it and allowed them to build the crew (using NPC classes only). They keep recruiting new NPCs, though - it's kind of like Suikoden.
But basically - yeah, I think asking that would be fine and I would allow it as a DM. I'd do it as a sidequest to get some money for upgrading the ship. You don't even need to houserule anything - just use monsters with a lot of treasure. True dragons (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/dragonTrue.htm), krakens (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/kraken.htm), dragon turtles (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/dragonTurtle.htm) and brain collectors (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/nehThalggu.htm) all have triple treasure. Barghests (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/barghest.htm), driders (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/drider.htm), ogre mages (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/ogreMage.htm), doppelgangers (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/doppelganger.htm), titans (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/titan.htm) and vampires (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/vampire.htm) all have double treasure.
I'm guessing your party is at the mid levels. How about a shadow dragon using doppelgangers and vampires to infiltrate a city and, say, destroy the temple of Pelor from within? He could have a drider and a barghest as advisors (Dragons (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheDragon) to the dragon, if you will). I might use this in my game :smallbiggrin:

[Telonius]

There are a few traditional means of getting a new or better ship.

- Becoming an official privateer for the local lord. Pros: royal backing. Cons: royal backing.
- Steal somebody else's ship. Pros: stylish skull-and-crossbones flag, all the rum you can drink. Cons: peg legs, smelly crew, hangovers, unwanted attention from royal navy and/or ninjas.
- Win one in a game of chance. Pros: might not look like much, but she's got it where it counts. Cons: guy who lost it will probably want it back.

As for your situation ... I'd really take it up with the DM. Strongholds in general can be as much of a target as a benefit. Unless you're going to be regularly using the ship in combat, it's not very beneficial to sink resources onto it. If you are regularly seeing ship-to-ship combat, try to scavenge sunk enemies for usable treasure. IIRC, the ballista is still enchanted, even if the ship it's attached to is on the bottom of the sea, correct?

[realbombchu]

...it's kind of like Suikoden.

Oh, heck yeah! Extra points for bringing up that series! That was a great response, too. Very helpful, because I see what your saying about focusing on treasure loving monsters, and as long as we get it through normal gameplay, it's not really house ruling.

I'll talk to my DM about this, of course, and see what we can set up. And if I put it like that, with the chance for more adventure, he might be more inclined to agree. Plus, we can't have our lives depending on a boat that is so easily destroyed. Thank you everyone for the help so far.

I'm still open to more input if anyone else has ideas.

[Sheogoroth]

It's weird to ask the DM to give you something.
I've found it best to drop a few hints and then pursue something that gives them the opportunity to throw you something you can use.
You might be surprised at what you find.

[realbombchu]

I've found it best to drop a few hints and then pursue something that gives them the opportunity to throw you something you can use.

That's good advice, thanks. If I did that, it wouldn't seem like I was trying to tell him how to do his job. I think I'll still talk to him about my concerns, because communication is really important, but I'll stop short of giving him a list of requests, and I'll see what he does.