OA Sam/Duskblade Build

[Darth Grall]

Okay so I consulted these forums the other day and decided to make an Oriental Adventures Samurai 2/Duskblade 18 and now I'm hear to do so again. It appears I've found my way off the DM's rails and in doing so have gone off his "safe path" and now I'm not in "a level 10 country". Thus if I want to continue playing this character I'm going to have to optimize a bit harder than I may have initially wanted to.

Also it appears that I have the lowest stats of the group(Were it a point buy, mine is 30 I believe, compared to 50's on other characters, one's a 70! O.O), given the way he runs things. Though I would hardly consider them bad in a normal game, they're not anywhere near optimized but it's what I have to work with.

I sorta have MAD at the moment, with WIS being my only "dump" stat since I have to keep a high INT for my spells and CHA for my Iaijitsu skill.

STR - 16
DEX - 14
CON - 13
INT - 15
WIS - 13
CHA - 13

Feats

1 Weapon Focus(Katana)
H Quick Draw

skills(ranks only atm)

Climb - 1
Iaijitsu Focus - 4
Intimidate - 4
Jump - 4
Perform - 1 (lute)
Profession - 1 (Soldier)
Ride - 1
Sense Motive - 4
Swin - 4

AC - 16 <= 10 + 4(Armor) + 2(Dex)

Wearing Chain Shirt atm, planning eventually got go Mithral Breast Plate.

With my Ancestral Katana wielded 2-handed I'm at +6(1d10+4)

So... what it boils down to is what should I take to kill my opponents as quickly as possible? I eventually wanna take Power Attack when I can but right now I know that will be an issue with to hit, which I don't have just yet. And ultimately I need more AC but that should come later.

When I take my 2nd level of Samurai I think I'm gonna grab Iaijutsu focus, so I think I wanna work my way into making that effective... And the best way to make them flatfooted I can figure would be to use bluff, but it's not a class skill for the Sam or Duskblade... Suggestions?

[Kaje]

You need to get out of there. This DM's wacko.

[Darth Grall]

You need to get out of there. This DM's wacko.Haha, well he's a friend so I don't think I can do that. And if nothing else I'm treating this as a challenge.

[ThiagoMartell]

I'll help you even though you call characters 'toons', which is both a grave sin and a crime punishable by death in my country.

With a Samurai/Duskblade, you can deal craploads of damage. Take Able Learner as a feat, don't care much about Str and go Iaijutsu Master. All you need is Int, Dex and Cha (and a bit of Con, but everyone does).
Iaijutsu Focus + Arcane Channeling is a lot of damage at the low levels. You will fall behind a bit until you reach level 5 of Iaijutsu Master - then you become a living engine of destruction.

I'd go with Samurai 1/Duskblade 5/Iaijutsu Master 5. You can even dip Blade Dancer for Acrobatics I and the speed bonus before going for ye old Gish Prc.
Basically, my suggested build is something along the lines of Samurai 1/Duskblade 5/Iaijustu Master 5/Suel Arcanamach 3/Blade Dancer 1/Abjurant Champion 5 (not necessarily in that order).
What's important here:
Samurai 1- Ancestral Daisho and Iaijutsu Focus as a class skill
Duskblade 5 - Arcane Channeling, Quick Cast
Iaijutsu Master 5 - Int to AC (if unarmored - you might pass on that), Strike from the Void (Cha to initiative), Lightning Blade (Cha to each dice of Iaijutsu damage - basically, Cha x9 to damage), Weapon Finesse with katana, bonus feat helps qualifying for Blade Dancer, good class skills
Blade Dancer 1 - Acrobatics (+10 to Tumble, Balance and Jump), doubling your base speed, leap of the clouds does nothing in 3.5 (but IMHO it should give the Leap of the Heavens feat from PHB2 as a bonus feat, but that's a houserule)
Suel Arcanamach 3 - Hello, gish spells. Hello, better spells to channel.
Abjurant Champion 5 - Good caster level, extra class abilities... it basically turns everything to overdrive.

[Darth Grall]

I'll help you even though you call characters 'toons', which is both a grave sin and a crime punishable by death in my country.Sorry, bad habit I picked up from another friend. I've been trying to quit, honest.

And thanks, I'll look up these up these when I can.

[Darth Grall]

Okay, well since I can't find Complete Mage or Arcane and I know my DM doesn't have access to either of them since I got my pdfs from him, I'm gonna go Samurai 1/Duskblade 13/Iaijustu Master 5/Blade Dancer 1.
Aside from that I don't have access to those, I also don't want to lose the Duskblade's level 13 ability with it's ability to hit with it's arcane strike on every attack and I do want to take advantage of that full BAB and spell casting.

My new stat arrangement is:
STR 13
DEX 16
CON 13
INT 15
WIS 12
CHA 14

At 4th I plan to boost INT but beyond there I'm lost whether to continue boosting INT or boost DEX to raise my to hit... Or boost CHA to maximize Iaijutsu.

As for feats I'm not thinking I'm gonna go:

H Adept Learner
1 Weapon Focus (Katana)
3 Quick Draw
6 Improved Initiative
9 Dodge
12 Mobility
I.M4 Spring Attack
15 Skill Focus (Iaijutsu Focus)
18 Iajutsu Master

How does that look?

[ThiagoMartell]

Looking good. Be sure to get items to booost Dex, Int and Cha and you'll do good.
Int is probably the least important out of those three stats. Duskblade already gets plenty of spells and your DCs are not going to be anything to write home about due to topping at 5th level spells. You only need Int 15, really. More will not hurt, but it will not help much. It adds to AC, but it needs to be really high to be better than armor. Even with the Dex focus, there are plenty of good armors for you.
Dex and Cha, however, are both added to your initiative. Cha fuels your damage and Dex fuels your to-hit.
If you can squeeze Arcane Strike in there somewhere, it's one of the most commonly recommended feats for Duskblade (but I think it's from Complete Arcane).
It looks like a solid build, hope you have fun with it.

[Darth Grall]

Looking good. Be sure to get items to booost Dex, Int and Cha and you'll do good.
Int is probably the least important out of those three stats. Duskblade already gets plenty of spells and your DCs are not going to be anything to write home about due to topping at 5th level spells. You only need Int 15, really. More will not hurt, but it will not help much. It adds to AC, but it needs to be really high to be better than armor. Even with the Dex focus, there are plenty of good armors for you.
Dex and Cha, however, are both added to your initiative. Cha fuels your damage and Dex fuels your to-hit.
If you can squeeze Arcane Strike in there somewhere, it's one of the most commonly recommended feats for Duskblade (but I think it's from Complete Arcane).
It looks like a solid build, hope you have fun with it.Okay then I won't go beyond 16 with the INT, I was only taking it for the extra spell per day and eventual + 1 to AC with Canny Defense. DEX will likely be my focus beyond that.
And I'll try to work in Arcane Strike, probably replacing the Iaijutsu Master feat since it's a once per day ability.

Thank you again for the help!

[Endelehia]

If your idea for the character is not set into being an armored samurai/mage,you could try the Ascetic Mage feat in complete adventurer.
Advancing 1 or 2 monk levels and choosing a spontaneous casting class instead of duskblade you can add your charisma to your AC.Thus making you less MAD.

Another perk is that choosing an appropriate monk variant can get you useful (or even unavailable feats if you choose to relative dump int) like combat expertise,imp trip etc.Plus a samurai/monk wandering around,wielding his katana while dressed in a kimono fits thematically.

[ThiagoMartell]

If your idea for the character is not set into being an armored samurai/mage,you could try the Ascetic Mage feat in complete adventurer.
Advancing 1 or 2 monk levels and choosing a spontaneous casting class instead of duskblade you can add your charisma to your AC.Thus making you less MAD.

Another perk is that choosing an appropriate monk variant can get you useful (or even unavailable feats if you choose to relative dump int) like combat expertise,imp trip etc.Plus a samurai/monk wandering around,wielding his katana while dressed in a kimono fits thematically.

Duskblade is an instantaneous casting class. Cha to AC yields worse results than armor.

[Bloodgruve]

If you are looking to boost Iaijutsu Focus Able Learner and Item Familiar are the feats you need. As in understand it the feat Able Learner allows for full IF rank advancement and Item Familiar will allow you to invest skill ranks to effectively double your ranks in IF. Thus at level 12 you could have 15 ranks +15 invested bonus for +30. Item Familiar is a great feat all around.

Blood~

[ThiagoMartell]

If you are looking to boost Iaijutsu Focus Able Learner and Item Familiar are the feats you need. As in understand it the feat Able Learner allows for full IF rank advancement and Item Familiar will allow you to invest skill ranks to effectively double your ranks in IF. Thus at level 12 you could have 15 ranks +15 invested bonus for +30. Item Familiar is a great feat all around.

Blood~

Item Familiar is a horrible feat. It's either overpowered or useless. You don't even need it ot get the most out of Iaijutsu Focus.

[Bloodgruve]

Item Familiar is a horrible feat. It's either overpowered or useless. You don't even need it ot get the most out of Iaijutsu Focus.

Please enlighten me on how this could be a useless feat.. It can be detrimental if you lose the item but there are means of protecting it.

[ThiagoMartell]

Please enlighten me on why this is a useless feat..

Item Familiar is a completely overpowered feat that gives, among other feats, free XP because you could lose the item.
So in every given situation it's either powered (if you have the item) or useless (if you don't have the item).
It's one of the most badly designed feats in D&D 3.5 and that's saying a lot.

[Bloodgruve]

Item Familiar is a completely overpowered feat that gives, among other feats, free XP because you could lose the item.
So in every given situation it's either powered (if you have the item) or useless (if you don't have the item).
It's one of the most badly designed feats in D&D 3.5 and that's saying a lot.

You can choose not to invest XP which I have done whenever I use it. Creating a weapon Item Familiar is risky but I am glad that there is this option in game. Also if you have a good DM you should usually have at least an opportunity to recover your lost items. This feat functions just like RL, high risk vs high reward..

What other ways are there to boost a skill like this?

Blood~

[ThiagoMartell]

What other ways are there to boost a skill like this?

Iaijutsu Focus caps at 50.
23 ranks and Cha 30 is already +33.
Skill Focus is a bonus feat for Iaijutsu Master, for another +3.
Circlet of Persuasion for another +3.
Focus weapon property for +4.
Masterwork tool for Iaijutsu Focus (obviously, a good sheath) for +2.
Competence item for Iaijutsu Focus for +5.
Total: +50. You can even go with Cha 28.
If you take the Hardened Criminal feat to take 10 on Iaijutsu Focus checks, you only need +40 (23 ranks, Skill Focus, Circlet of Persuasion, Focus, Masterwork tool and Cha 20 already maximizes it).
Also, Item Familiar means you dump 30 extra skill points (more than one maxed skill!) and a feat into it to get +10. By taking 10, Hardened Criminal effectively gives you +10.

[Bloodgruve]

Iaijutsu Focus caps at 50.
23 ranks and Cha 30 is already +33.
Skill Focus is a bonus feat for Iaijutsu Master, for another +3.
Circlet of Persuasion for another +3.
Focus weapon property for +4.
Masterwork tool for Iaijutsu Focus (obviously, a good sheath) for +2.
Competence item for Iaijutsu Focus for +5.
Total: +50. You can even go with Cha 28.
If you take the Hardened Criminal feat to take 10 on Iaijutsu Focus checks, you only need +40 (23 ranks, Skill Focus, Circlet of Persuasion, Focus, Masterwork tool and Cha 20 already maximizes it).
Also, Item Familiar means you dump 30 extra skill points (more than one maxed skill!) and a feat into it to get +10. By taking 10, Hardened Criminal effectively gives you +10.

I am currently running an IF character, this is very helpful. I was not aware of Hardened Criminal.

But lets say that Cha isn't your stat focus so take it to 18. Lets also say that you are lvl 10 instead of 20. You're sitting at +34 with the items you described, pretty good. Now add Item Familiar and you're at +47, almost max for the skill at level 10. When you invest skills in your Item Familiar they are still available for you unless you lose the item so you're not really burning skills. Again its risk vs reward.

I play my IF/Item Familiar character in a way that puts a very large emphasis on the item. Yea, if he gets stolen or destroyed my character turns into a gnome running around finding traps and doing random knowledge check from the back of the party... My Item Familiar plays a big part in defining my character and my DM knows it. Its kinda like Green Lantern's ring, without it he's not doing much.

Blood~

[ThiagoMartell]

I am currently running an IF character, this is very helpful. I was not aware of Hardened Criminal.

But lets say that Cha isn't your stat focus so take it to 18. Lets also say that you are lvl 10 instead of 20. You're sitting at +34 with the items you described, pretty good. Now add Item Familiar and you're at +47, almost max for the skill at level 10. When you invest skills in your Item Familiar they are still available for you unless you lose the item so you're not really burning skills. Again its risk vs reward.

I play my IF/Item Familiar character in a way that puts a very large emphasis on the item. Yea, if he gets stolen or destroyed my character turns into a gnome running around finding traps and doing random knowledge check from the back of the party... My Item Familiar plays a big part in defining my character and my DM knows it. Its kinda like Green Lantern's ring, without it he's not doing much.

Blood~

That's the problem with Item Familiar. It forces the DM into basically giving the player a free power boost or actively screwing with the player by taking the item away. As a DM, as a player and as a game designer, I simply despise it. But hey, if it's working for you, have fun. :smallbiggrin:

[Bloodgruve]

That's the problem with Item Familiar. It forces the DM into basically giving the player a free power boost or actively screwing with the player by taking the item away. As a DM, as a player and as a game designer, I simply despise it. But hey, if it's working for you, have fun. :smallbiggrin:

I see where you're coming from. Interesting points, I'll take this to another post as not to divert this thread too much.

Blood~

[Daftendirekt]

Also it appears that I have the lowest stats of the group(Were it a point buy, mine is 30 I believe, compared to 50's on other characters, one's a 70! O.O)

...really? If I saw even 50pb in a game I'd leave, much less 70. Also, what a horribly unbalanced group. At least leave unbalancing part to class and feat choice, not the wildly disparate ability scores.

[GenghisDon]

If you can squeeze Arcane Strike in there somewhere, it's one of the most commonly recommended feats for Duskblade (but I think it's from Complete Arcane).

complete warrior


...really? If I saw even 50pb in a game I'd leave, much less 70. Also, what a horribly unbalanced group. At least leave unbalancing part to class and feat choice, not the wildly disparate ability scores.

Why leave scores out of it?:smallbiggrin: It actually tends to help, BTW, more often than hurt. The game is "ROLLED" scores obviously, not PB of any kind.

I've no idea why an IF character OR a duskblade type wouldn't be good/fun enough, but if your DM wants, give it to him. From the sounds of it, I'd take item familiar, since you already want/will use ancestral daisho. It sounds like a natural combo. I don't like the feat/idea, but it actually suits this character.

Good luck

[Darth Grall]

Why leave scores out of it?:smallbiggrin: It actually tends to help, BTW, more often than hurt. The game is "ROLLED" scores obviously, not PB of any kind.

I've no idea why an IF character OR a duskblade type wouldn't be good/fun enough, but if your DM wants, give it to him. From the sounds of it, I'd take item familiar, since you already want/will use ancestral daisho. It sounds like a natural combo. I don't like the feat/idea, but it actually suits this character.

Good luckYeah it is rolled. The dm had us roll 3d6, replace lowest with 6... And I just happened to roll very poorly. However, thing is, apparently he's rolling for all his enemies like that too, so the whole world has heroic plus stats :smallfrown:

And I might take Item Familiar if I can, since I if I lose the daisho I'm unhonorable anyways... But I don't want to waste a feat. We'll see how I'm doing partway through game.

And thanks lol.

[ThiagoMartell]

Yeah it is rolled. The dm had us roll 3d6, replace lowest with 6... And I just happened to roll very poorly. However, thing is, apparently he's rolling for all his enemies like that too, so the whole world has heroic plus stats :smallfrown:

And I might take Item Familiar if I can, since I if I lose the daisho I'm unhonorable anyways... But I don't want to waste a feat. We'll see how I'm doing partway through game.

And thanks lol.

The thing about Iaijutsu Focus is that you really don't need to optimize your check bonus. Ranks + Charisma are already enough to keep it relevant.
Also, since you're taking Duskblade, did you consider Knowledge Devotion?

[Dusk Eclipse]

Yeah it is rolled. The dm had us roll 3d6, replace lowest with 6... And I just happened to roll very poorly. However, thing is, apparently he's rolling for all his enemies like that too, so the whole world has heroic plus stats :smallfrown:

And I might take Item Familiar if I can, since I if I lose the daisho I'm unhonorable anyways... But I don't want to waste a feat. We'll see how I'm doing partway through game.

And thanks lol.

Wait that means that if your lowest roll was say a 10, you had to replace it with a 6? That is quite harsh.... it means that either you dump one score your race has a bonus to (to have an 8) or if you dump that stat you are barely functional... I mean 3 int is the minimum for a player character and that would imply severe mental deficiencies.

[Urpriest]

Wait that means that if your lowest roll was say a 10, you had to replace it with a 6? That is quite harsh.... it means that either you dump one score your race has a bonus to (to have an 8) or if you dump that stat you are barely functional... I mean 3 int is the minimum for a player character and that would imply severe mental deficiencies.

Lowest die I would assume, not lowest result.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Oh well, if that is the case it isn't as bad... then average would be 13?

[GenghisDon]

If it was 2d6+6 the average would be 13. replacing a die scews the odds eveb higher. These guys have very generous scores & Darth Grall merely rolled about average

[Darth Grall]

The thing about Iaijutsu Focus is that you really don't need to optimize your check bonus. Ranks + Charisma are already enough to keep it relevant.
Also, since you're taking Duskblade, did you consider Knowledge Devotion?I hadn't heard of it till now, but consider me considering it lol

If it was 2d6+6 the average would be 13. replacing a die scews the odds eveb higher. These guys have very generous scores & Darth Grall merely rolled about averageYes it was 3d6, replacing the lowest die. And yeah I really rolled averagely in a non-average game lol. Hence why I needed to oprimize harder than normal to reduce MAD.