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Madeiner
2012-08-09, 05:45 AM
Hi there.

I have a little problem lately.
One of my players, which sometimes roleplays pretty convincingly and is sometimes the face of the group (he's mostly the one who speaks first to NPCs), sometimes, i dont know why, starts roleplaying in a manner that i don't like at all.
Sometimes conversations with NPCs start with "hey bro" followed by a typical modern street-language, gags, or pop culture or sexual references.

I just think this breaks immersion a lot for me, and most of the time i don't even know how to roleplay it, so i usually try to ignore the language and focus and what he wanted to communicate.

I would like things to change. This person is a friend of mine, we are all adults with jobs and life, and i wouldn't want to impose MY style of play and dictate what is right and what is wrong.
Plus, he doesn't do this most of the times; just sometimes it goes on a streak that can last a while during the session.

What do you suggest i can do? The players have asked me to do a night-stand session later this summer, but i don't know if i can take 6 hours of that language and immersion-breaking.

Driderman
2012-08-09, 05:49 AM
Hi there.

I have a little problem lately.
One of my players, which sometimes roleplays pretty convincingly and is sometimes the face of the group (he's mostly the one who speaks first to NPCs), sometimes, i dont know why, starts roleplaying in a manner that i don't like at all.
Sometimes conversations with NPCs start with "hey bro" followed by a typical modern street-language, gags, or pop culture or sexual references.

I just think this breaks immersion a lot for me, and most of the time i don't even know how to roleplay it, so i usually try to ignore the language and focus and what he wanted to communicate.

I would like things to change. This person is a friend of mine, we are all adults with jobs and life, and i wouldn't want to impose MY style of play and dictate what is right and what is wrong.
Plus, he doesn't do this most of the times; just sometimes it goes on a streak that can last a while during the session.

What do you suggest i can do? The players have asked me to do a night-stand session later this summer, but i don't know if i can take 6 hours of that language and immersion-breaking.

Well you'll obviously have to talk with the guy. Perhaps something is bothering him? I know I personally have a tendency to resort to jokes and OOC snark if I'm bored/bothered with the game. Since you're friends, letting him know what you think of his new style shouldn't really be a problem, should it?

Totally Guy
2012-08-09, 06:03 AM
What is he trying to do by doing that?

only1doug
2012-08-09, 06:27 AM
Well you'll obviously have to talk with the guy. Perhaps something is bothering him? I know I personally have a tendency to resort to jokes and OOC snark if I'm bored/bothered with the game. Since you're friends, letting him know what you think of his new style shouldn't really be a problem, should it?

Yup this.

Grab a few minutes with your friend and ask him about it, discuss the situation with him and mention how immersion breaking you find it.
If he realises that this is likely to make the difference between whether you will have an all-night session or not he'll probably be keen to avoid it.

Don't tell him "You must not play this way!", just discuss it amicably and find out whats going on with it. It's most likely that sometimes if he has had a rough day he finds it harder to RP thoroughly and thus breaks into easier jargon, knowing that it makes a difference to you may be all the motivation he needs to make the extra effort.

TL;DR talk to your friend about it, only he knows whats going on and you ought to be able to sort it out as rational adults.

prufock
2012-08-09, 06:37 AM
Sometimes conversations with NPCs start with "hey bro" followed by a typical modern street-language, gags, or pop culture or sexual references.

Options:

1) Perhaps it's time for a change of setting? In a modern or future game that sort of language wouldn't be too far out of context.

2) Talk to the player and explain that "bro" is not an understood term in this setting, that his character should have no knowledge of modern pop culture which doesn't exist in this setting, and that sexual comments toward people you just met are a bit inappropriate.

3) Lead the player where you want him to go. You're ignoring the language; don't do that. Let actions in character have in-character consequences. NPCs will probably not like this guy. Think about how you would respond if someone approached you on the street and started making pop culture references you'd never heard, made sexual remarks, and referred to you with an oddly anachronistic word like "my lord." You'd think the guy was off his rocker, and that's probably how people should respond to this character.

Disclosure: I've played a character like this once, in a Star Wars "dark side" game. He made pop culture references that didn't exist in-world, would say very odd things, sometimes spoke to a person that wasn't there, had very strange circles of logic, and so on. Of course, there was an understanding with my GM and other players that he was actually crazy; that was my intent. He was partially based on Deadpool, after all.

Man, that was a fun character to play.

Cespenar
2012-08-09, 08:03 AM
When he acts that way again, laugh as if he joked intentionally, and say "Come on man, roleplay a bit" in an amicable tone.

mcv
2012-08-09, 08:54 AM
As everyone has said, talk to him first.

Then try everything else.

As a last resort, you could be just as annoying and have your NPCs stay in character: "I think you have me confused with someone else. I don't know anyone named 'Bro'." or: "How dare you address the king without his proper title?!" or: "I'm afraid I don't speak your language, sir. I have no idea what you're saying."

It's annoying, and will derail a lot of otherwise potentially meaningful encounters, but it gets your point across, and if he realizes his in-character conversations go better than his modern street talk conversations, he might choose the more effective approach more often.

Tyndmyr
2012-08-09, 09:43 AM
Hi there.

I have a little problem lately.
One of my players, which sometimes roleplays pretty convincingly and is sometimes the face of the group (he's mostly the one who speaks first to NPCs), sometimes, i dont know why, starts roleplaying in a manner that i don't like at all.
Sometimes conversations with NPCs start with "hey bro" followed by a typical modern street-language, gags, or pop culture or sexual references.

I just think this breaks immersion a lot for me, and most of the time i don't even know how to roleplay it, so i usually try to ignore the language and focus and what he wanted to communicate.

I would like things to change. This person is a friend of mine, we are all adults with jobs and life, and i wouldn't want to impose MY style of play and dictate what is right and what is wrong.
Plus, he doesn't do this most of the times; just sometimes it goes on a streak that can last a while during the session.

What do you suggest i can do? The players have asked me to do a night-stand session later this summer, but i don't know if i can take 6 hours of that language and immersion-breaking.

Well, there's a few options. You can play it straight, with all the hilarity that entails. "What is this milkshake you speak of? Should I care if it's better than mine?"

You can play a game set appropriately for this. "Yo, I got a +15 in my Frontin' skill, dawg".

Or you could ignore it as OOC speech.

Or you could have a wierd mashup of modern culture and fantasy.

The Dark Fiddler
2012-08-09, 09:43 AM
I just think this breaks immersion a lot for me, and most of the time i don't even know how to roleplay it, so i usually try to ignore the language and focus and what he wanted to communicate.

After talking with him, if that doesn't work, I'd suggest attempting to continue this, and seeing if you can't keep ignoring it. Tell yourself that his character isn't really saying that, it's just that the player doesn't know enough about contemporary slang in the setting to use the equivalents. It's not like people didn't use slang in the past, or anything; they just used different slang.

As far as issues with players go, this is a pretty tame one, so try to keep in mind the saying "making a mountain out of a molehill", and try not to do that.

QuidEst
2012-08-09, 11:12 AM
Well, at least they're not pulling out mangled imitation Shakespeare on you…

The following are for entertainment and not actually intended to fix anything. Please don't actually use them.
• Have NPC casters use interpreting spells.
• Have NPC casters use language spells and reply in somewhat broken ebonics.
• Have people assume his character is a foreigner.
• Especially people who have a problem with foreigners.
• Have an annoying little gnome follow him around trying to learn to talk like him.
• Joseph Ducreux.

Madeiner
2012-08-09, 11:19 AM
Thanks everybody.

No, i wont make a big issue out of this, i am just trying to enjoy the game more.
It is not related to him not enjoying the game, as far as the player tells me (and i try to encourage critics and opinions).

I will first try to let NPCs react to that language, instead of completely ignoring it, and check what happens in a while.
It will not be easy, as he's most of the time subtly insulting NPCs with a language THEY can't even understand. Reacting offended would be OOC as they DON'T know he just insulted their mother or something like that.

I am sure talking to him would solve the problem, but i wouldn't really want to impose my position or act like it's a big issue. We all want a relaxed environment here.

kyoryu
2012-08-09, 12:07 PM
When he acts that way again, laugh as if he joked intentionally, and say "Come on man, roleplay a bit" in an amicable tone.

I think this is the best strategy, personally. Not hostile, honest, and not passive aggressive.

EDIT: If you do go with the "Forsooth, man, I do not know of which you speak. Mineth name is Timothy, not 'Bro'", then at the minimum play it off as a joke.

Madeiner
2012-08-09, 03:27 PM
When he acts that way again, laugh as if he joked intentionally, and say "Come on man, roleplay a bit" in an amicable tone.


I think this is the best strategy, personally. Not hostile, honest, and not passive aggressive.

EDIT: If you do go with the "Forsooth, man, I do not know of which you speak. Mineth name is Timothy, not 'Bro'", then at the minimum play it off as a joke.

Yeah, i also noticed that suggestion among the others, and its definately something i will try. Nothing can go wrong with that.

Slipperychicken
2012-08-09, 03:52 PM
Well, at least they're not pulling out mangled imitation Shakespeare on you…


Or sitting there and TALKING... like.. this? And Hoping. It will work.. tooo.. Articulate? (yeah, articulate. That's the right word. right? okay good) His.. His meaning. Before you get.. bored, of course.


The fact he can talk naturally/quickly in character is good (especially as the party face), and he doesn't feel like he has to fumble over unwieldly/archaic language to communicate.

Togath
2012-08-09, 04:08 PM
Frankly I've never understood why talking in a more modern manner(then again, I mean in normal speech rather then slang, so it might be different) is a bad thing, it's easier, so why not?(if your concerned about immersion then just imagine that the modern speech is ooc, and that, if you were actually in the game world it would sound different)
edit: one kind of fun thing could be to come up with in character slang that the game worlds inhabitents use, and encourage him to use it, if it keeps bothering you.

killem2
2012-08-09, 05:05 PM
If you are the DM, it is your duty to make the pcs not understand what he is saying? I mean in my modules, if a player starting talking modern, lingo, I would roleplay the character as a confused person who doesn't understand what the heck he is talking about.

If you are a player, you should take it up with your DM.



Frankly I've never understood why talking in a more modern manner(then again, I mean in normal speech rather then slang, so it might be different) is a bad thing, it's easier, so why not?


I would say that it isn't a bad thing either, but if the table doesn't want it that way, there should be some compromise.

Madeiner
2012-08-09, 05:17 PM
Frankly I've never understood why talking in a more modern manner(then again, I mean in normal speech rather then slang, so it might be different) is a bad thing, it's easier, so why not?(if your concerned about immersion then just imagine that the modern speech is ooc, and that, if you were actually in the game world it would sound different)
edit: one kind of fun thing could be to come up with in character slang that the game worlds inhabitents use, and encourage him to use it, if it keeps bothering you.

It's uhm, not just the slang that is bothering me. It's a kind of attitude that is hard to explain, as english is not even my main language.

Language aside, if he just said the same things that he says in a real medieval setting, he would be hanged or imprisoned like 3 times per session.

He might meet a new and important person that is supposed to help them, only to greet him with a "hey bro, you look like the guy at the comics store", then some kind of pop-culture or nerd joke, followed by another scorn about his name because it reminds him of something in real life.
If the NPC has a wife, he will probably say something about how sexy she is, and will try to impress her or say some kind of rude joke.

Now, how could i ignore something like that? A normal person will tell them to go away at that point, and never speak with him again.
Can i do that every time he talks like that? I can't, or the game will just come to a halt.

QuidEst
2012-08-09, 06:28 PM
If the NPC has a wife, he will probably say something about how sexy she is, and will try to impress her or say some kind of rude joke.

Now, how could i ignore something like that? A normal person will tell them to go away at that point, and never speak with him again.
Can i do that every time he talks like that? I can't, or the game will just come to a halt.

This is a fantasy setting- that "wife" might be a disguised succubus the NPC wizard keeps around. Or she might just slap him. Maybe she's a sorceress, and casts grease under his feet. You can probably come up with natural results for that sort of behavior. If the PCs are more powerful than the NPCs in this sort of situation, than yeah, he can just go and do this sort of thing- they have to put up with it, and it'd be up to another PC to intervene.

Do go ahead and talk to him about it, though. Don't try to handle it with a joke or something… actually talk to him.

holywhippet
2012-08-09, 07:06 PM
One recommendation is try not to take away any fun the player is having. I had one group I was playing in, the DM didn't like out of character behavior or joking around. I left that group eventually and I've got to say I was always kind of puzzled by them since they seemed to frown on having fun of any kind. The games were always in dark settings (dark heresy, Cthulu) and they seemed to play them with a grim resolve.

nedz
2012-08-09, 07:59 PM
IMHO This is an IC problem and should be handled as such.

Simply have the NPCs react appropriately: having them pointedly ignore the 'madman' or interpret his comments in an unhelpful way should cure him of this. It sounds like he is the sort of player who likes to communicate and also be cool, if this behaviour has uncool consequences he will change.

Rallicus
2012-08-09, 10:36 PM
I'm guilty of this too, unfortunately. In my last DnD campaign my gnome illusionist was insulted by a condescending tavern owner, and I said something along the lines of:

"'Are you FREAKIN' serious?' I yell, slamming my tiny fist on the table, 'I'm gonna hop over this counter and... like... slap you, dude!'"

I basically lost myself in the moment and had no idea what I was going to say, so that came out.

So I'm gonna disagree with the majority of the suggestions here. Some people just aren't very good actors. They can't completely immerse themselves in the world, and their real life personas squeeze in from time to time. Can't really be helped.

If you've got a good imagination, you can let your player break the fourth wall from time to time and just picture what they're saying, except in language proper for the setting. "hey bro, you look like the guy at the comics store" could translate to, "Hail friend, you resemble the man from the library" or something along those lines.

I'd say tell him to try and avoid it if possible, and to try to take the game more seriously. But a few accidents will undoubtedly slip through from time to time, and I honestly think it's a horrible idea to punish the player ICly for it.

Logic
2012-08-09, 10:59 PM
Talk to him out of game first, let him know it bothers you. If he repeats this behavior, have the town shaman try to "exorcise" the foul demons from his mind. Or the local lord takes offense to his ramblings. Or a nearby half-orc adventurer thinks he is making fun of his mentally challenged brother.

In short, talk to him out of game first, then give in-game consequences for continuing the disruptive behavior.

Reluctance
2012-08-09, 11:16 PM
If you played in a real medieval setting, literacy would be all but unheard of, malnutrition and disease would be rampant, and most PCs would be the literal property of their direct social betters. That route doesn't go places you want to follow.

If you must, play up social standing. You can talk trash with your equals, and with your lessers if you don't mind looking like a douchebag. Trying with your betters will earn dirty looks and lock you out of upper-crust functions, even if it only brings down harsher sanctions from actively villainous despots.

Alternate solution is to stop caring. You as DM might not be as skilled at talking smack, which limits your NPCs, but a little practice should make it easy for them to hold their own. It's easier than having every NPC treat the character like a leper for saying silly things.

Gamer Girl
2012-08-10, 12:44 AM
1.If he breaks character a lot, then you just want to say something. Try to get him to agree that during the game he can only speak as 'Elrod' or such, unless you as the DM say 'break' or something happens in real life that needs attention.

2.Have NPC's react to whatever he says anyway. If he says 'that lady could be on American Idol', then just have and NPC say something like ''why yes, she did compete in the kingdoms Beautiful Voice Festival.'' The trick is to have the NPC 'hear' the 'medieval equivalent' of whatever he says(this is such an old Dr. Who trick.

3.Help him out. Take like an hour and make put all whole page of ''Sayings of the World''. Take like 10 minutes to give each character some unique ones. And don't forget to give XP when they use them, or even better make their own.

JoeMac307
2012-08-10, 11:25 AM
• Have an annoying little gnome follow him around trying to learn to talk like him.


That one made me laugh my butt off

Mnemnosyne
2012-08-10, 12:56 PM
Whenever he does that, NPC's should react entirely in character. As others have said, remember to 'translate' what he's saying to something that his character could say. His character cannot talk about real-life things, since his character doesn't know such things. You must substitute the closest logical in-game replacement.

This will probably result in seriously offending whoever he's talking to. Whatever he's trying to accomplish will almost certainly fail. If we're talking a low level character talking to an important official, a whipping or some other such appropriate punishment for speaking to someone of high station is perhaps called for. If the character is too powerful to be punished, the person being spoken to is nevertheless not inclined to be helpful. Worsen the NPC's attitude to unfriendly, or outright hostile. Insist that the offending character leave at once. Refuse to ever deal with them again, and if their friends want to deal, they'll have to jump through some hoops to apologize. In some cases, no amount of apology will cut it - grievously insulting someone in that manner completely cuts them off as a potential source of help and aid.

DementedFellow
2012-08-10, 01:46 PM
If it doesn't hurt the game, what's the problem? The language typically is Common, not Ye Olde Englishe. Why must it follow the conventions of the Canterbury Tales?

only1doug
2012-08-10, 02:08 PM
If it doesn't hurt the game, what's the problem? The language typically is Common, not Ye Olde Englishe. Why must it follow the conventions of the Canterbury Tales?

If it takes the GM out of the mood then it hurts the game, is the GM not allowed to enjoy the game too?

HunterOfJello
2012-08-10, 02:21 PM
you should introduce him to Sigil street talk so he can act that way while also being immersive

Ravens_cry
2012-08-10, 02:29 PM
It is part of the DM's job to set tone and mood, and if it is truly bothering you you should probably take them aside and explain your issues with the player. You don't have to do it at the table, in fact I recommend against it, but you should air your concerns.

DementedFellow
2012-08-10, 02:42 PM
If it takes the GM out of the mood then it hurts the game, is the GM not allowed to enjoy the game too?

There are several movies/stories out there wherein people use anachronistic language. Perhaps that's part of the character's schtick. We aren't given that information.

Look at any number of time traveling movies, or any other "Fish out of water" movies. Often times, there is confusion and it is played for laughs. You can have your cake and eat it too when it comes to dialogue.

If it is too much of a distraction, the one thing that the DM will have trouble with is wrangling this behavior back in. Assuming this has been going on for a couple sessions, the tone has been set. Course correcting mid-game can have far more negative side effects than just suffering with the symptoms.

I agree with the earlier posters about having the NPCs question the vernacular this guy uses if it bothers the DM that much. Playing straight man to his funny guy may be a rewarding experience for all at the table.

I could see a character being a bigger distraction if he was causing interparty conflict, exploiting loopholes or just being a jerk in general. That doesn't seem to be the problem here though. It appears to be a very minor slight that doesn't necessitate beating the character into submission.

It's also helpful to remember that people play these games as a way to relax and unwind from an otherwise hectic life. Certain players are incapable of being fully immersed in a fantasy world. They will relish in pointing out the funny things or making jokes. Playstyle will vary from person to person.

WarKitty
2012-08-10, 09:34 PM
As a side project, maybe work with him on some quick-and-easy in-setting slang and whatnot? If it's a relaxation type thing, an easy substitute might go over better than just a plain "stop it."

Kish
2012-08-11, 11:51 AM
He might meet a new and important person that is supposed to help them, only to greet him with a "hey bro, you look like the guy at the comics store", then some kind of pop-culture or nerd joke, followed by another scorn about his name because it reminds him of something in real life.
This sounds like he's deliberately disrupting the game.


If the NPC has a wife, he will probably say something about how sexy she is, and will try to impress her or say some kind of rude joke.
And I hope he doesn't act like that toward every woman he meets in real life, so...again sounds like he's deliberately disrupting the game (or he's sexist and so lacking in social graces that he doesn't have any clue what might bother anyone).

If, as sounds far more likely, he's deliberately disrupting the game, I'd ask him privately what's going on with him.

If his skeezy attitude toward female NPCs genuinely reflects his attitude toward all women, then I'd kick him out of the game and drop him from my social circle entirely.

Templarkommando
2012-08-11, 05:46 PM
It occurs to me that one solution could be to put a character in the campaign with the intent of breaking immersion as an illustration for why it doesn't work in a somewhat serious setting. This may come across as highly passive aggressive however, so I'd say know your party and use it only if your party will get the message without taking it too hard.

A character that breaks the fourth wall can be nice on occasion. It adds to the humor value of the campaign, but that may be a negative depending on the color of your campaign world.

mcv
2012-08-12, 01:55 AM
Frankly I've never understood why talking in a more modern manner(then again, I mean in normal speech rather then slang, so it might be different) is a bad thing, it's easier, so why not

There's absolutely nothing wrong with this at all. In fact, I prefer it. Faux-medieval speech sounds terribly tacky and can distract almost as much from immersion as modern slang does.

mcv
2012-08-12, 02:05 AM
One recommendation is try not to take away any fun the player is having. I had one group I was playing in, the DM didn't like out of character behavior or joking around. I left that group eventually and I've got to say I was always kind of puzzled by them since they seemed to frown on having fun of any kind. The games were always in dark settings (dark heresy, Cthulu) and they seemed to play them with a grim resolve.

This is absolutely vital to keep in mind. The slang talk is only really a problem when it hurts the fun others are having. And the slang talker should also still have fun.

So I guess the best approach is simply to discuss it with him and perhaps also with the rest of the group. If the rest of the group has no problem with it, allow it. If the rest of the group agrees that it breaks immersion too much, I think the slang talker will realize he should tone it down.

kyoryu
2012-08-12, 12:41 PM
There's absolutely nothing wrong with this at all. In fact, I prefer it. Faux-medieval speech sounds terribly tacky and can distract almost as much from immersion as modern slang does.

You can certainly go too far, yes.

I think of the options:

"Hail, and well metteth, good sir! Beist thou of the watch of this fine city?"
"Hello - are you a guard?"
"Yo dawg. You one of the po-po?"

it's likely that most people would prefer the second.

Knaight
2012-08-12, 12:46 PM
You can certainly go too far, yes.

I think of the options:

"Hail, and well metteth, good sir! Beist thou of the watch of this fine city?"
"Hello - are you a guard?"
"Yo dawg. You one of the po-po?"

it's likely that most people would prefer the second.
Largely because the first of those is downright bad faux-medieval speech. It deserves listing in something like this:
"Hail, and well metteth, good sir! Beist thou of the watch of this fine city?"
"Jolly morning - can be you guard man?"
"dawg-bro u yo like 1 o dem po-po dudes"

nedz
2012-08-12, 01:50 PM
Largely because the first of those is downright bad faux-medieval speech. It deserves listing in something like this:
"Hail, and well metteth, good sir! Beist thee of the watch of this fine city?"
"Jolly morning - can be you guard man?"
"dawg-bro u yo like 1 o dem po-po dudes"

I'm afraid that I must correct your use of English. The rule is "Thee Thous those who thoust thee, and not afore"
Its like Tu and Vous.

TuggyNE
2012-08-12, 04:11 PM
I'm afraid that I must correct your use of English. The rule is "Thee Thous those who thoust thee, and not afore"
Its like Tu and Vous.

Wait, are you correcting his bad example to be worse, or better? I'm a little confused. (Also, that rule is of no help at all to me, and I already have a half-decent familiarity with archaic pronouns.)

Zale
2012-08-12, 04:35 PM
Perhaps you could give him some suggestions from modern slang to something more setting appropriate. Thief's Cant or something.

Though, the idea of having some sorceress casting Tongues and responding to his rude comments with something along the lines of

"Oh HELL NAW. YOU DID NOT JUST SAY THAT ABOUT ME."

Would be absolutely hilarious.

nedz
2012-08-12, 06:45 PM
Wait, are you correcting his bad example to be worse, or better? I'm a little confused. (Also, that rule is of no help at all to me, and I already have a half-decent familiarity with archaic pronouns.)

Archaic ? I grew up in a part of the world where this stuff was still used, along with pre-vowel shift pronunciations. Sadly I've not heard a broad accent in a long time, but then I moved into civilisation.

kyoryu
2012-08-12, 08:12 PM
Largely because the first of those is downright bad faux-medieval speech. It deserves listing in something like this:
"Hail, and well metteth, good sir! Beist thou of the watch of this fine city?"
"Jolly morning - can be you guard man?"
"dawg-bro u yo like 1 o dem po-po dudes"

Hrm. Maybe it was even deliberately bad faux-medieval? You know, as a contrast to the extreme of "modern" language beneath it?

I think my point stands.

Fiery Diamond
2012-08-12, 08:38 PM
You can certainly go too far, yes.

I think of the options:

"Hail, and well metteth, good sir! Beist thou of the watch of this fine city?"
"Hello - are you a guard?"
"Yo dawg. You one of the po-po?"

it's likely that most people would prefer the second.


Largely because the first of those is downright bad faux-medieval speech. It deserves listing in something like this:
"Hail, and well metteth, good sir! Beist thou of the watch of this fine city?"
"Jolly morning - can be you guard man?"
"dawg-bro u yo like 1 o dem po-po dudes"

I would just note that out of the five options here (Since option 1 is the same in both), there is only one that would not break immersion for me, and that is option 2 of the first set. I see option 2 of the second set as just as bad as option 3 of the first set. But then, I'm American, so option 2 of the second set is not my modern speech.

Knaight
2012-08-12, 08:47 PM
I would just note that out of the five options here (Since option 1 is the same in both), there is only one that would not break immersion for me, and that is option 2 of the first set. I see option 2 of the second set as just as bad as option 3 of the first set. But then, I'm American, so option 2 of the second set is not my modern speech.

That's my point. Option 1 is the equivalent of options 2 and 3 in the second set much more than options 2 and 3 in the first set. The first set juxtaposes extremely bad faux-medieval speech with actual conversational English, and slang that is at least close to actual slang (though "po-po" is essentially incorrect in context). The second is a corrected set that places the extremely bad faux-medieval speech next to butchered conversational English and butchered slang, to better highlight where it fits as an example.

mcv
2012-08-13, 02:23 AM
I think this is one of those cases where two wrongs make, well, not exactly a right, but certainly a funny:

"Yo dawg! Beist thou the po-po?"

Fiery Diamond
2012-08-13, 04:43 PM
That's my point. Option 1 is the equivalent of options 2 and 3 in the second set much more than options 2 and 3 in the first set. The first set juxtaposes extremely bad faux-medieval speech with actual conversational English, and slang that is at least close to actual slang (though "po-po" is essentially incorrect in context). The second is a corrected set that places the extremely bad faux-medieval speech next to butchered conversational English and butchered slang, to better highlight where it fits as an example.

Ah. Then I think what you might have been missing from the previous person's point was that there are very few, if any, D&D playing groups that use what I'll call "Option Zero": the historically correct medieval English that you would think would fit in better with the first set instead of its option 1. Therefore, since good, reasonable, not-mangled medieval speech doesn't exist in gameplay (for the most part), those who attempt "medieval-like speech" invariably come across as bad as option 1, so comparing it to conversational modern English (and modern slang for option 3) is where it fits as an example, since that's an accurate array of what potential choices the players are picking from for how to talk.

Therefore, the point made still stands: "Talking pseudo-medieval" and "Using modern slang" are both immersion breaking, while "Using modern non-slang" is not.

WarKitty
2012-08-13, 04:58 PM
Ah. Then I think what you might have been missing from the previous person's point was that there are very few, if any, D&D playing groups that use what I'll call "Option Zero": the historically correct medieval English that you would think would fit in better with the first set instead of its option 1. Therefore, since good, reasonable, not-mangled medieval speech doesn't exist in gameplay (for the most part), those who attempt "medieval-like speech" invariably come across as bad as option 1, so comparing it to conversational modern English (and modern slang for option 3) is where it fits as an example, since that's an accurate array of what potential choices the players are picking from for how to talk.

Therefore, the point made still stands: "Talking pseudo-medieval" and "Using modern slang" are both immersion breaking, while "Using modern non-slang" is not.

We've actually managed to do some pseudo-medieval. The trick is to keep it light, and predominantly "old-fashioned" rather than "archaic". So I might say something like:

"Greetings, sir. Are you a guard?"

mcv
2012-08-13, 05:53 PM
We've actually managed to do some pseudo-medieval. The trick is to keep it light, and predominantly "old-fashioned" rather than "archaic". So I might say something like:

"Greetings, sir. Are you a guard?"

The main thing to keep in mind that true medieval English is a completely different language. There have been vowel shifts, extreme changes in the meaning of words, new words and idioms, disappearance of old ones, etc.

Playing in a language you don't really speak is practically impossible. But speaking in a modern language while trying to emulate a medieval mindset is very much possible, and can give very good results. A bit old-fashioned, respect for social superiors, etc. That's much better than using thou and yonder.

Inglenook
2012-08-14, 12:10 AM
"Yonder" is still very much used in the American South. :smalltongue: